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On November 02 2015 23:23 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 23:18 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta: On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this. He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way. On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote:
rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team. This is also my best suggestion as well. Which game are you referring to? I think he can get plenty angry as town too lol He can get angry as town too, haven't never seen him play as town. I'm just basing it off my previous game with him, which is why I rather not have him on the first mission. Here is the page where he gets angry because he messed up and/or things just didn't go his way. (Super mini mafia, you can read through it fairly quickly). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497064-star-fox-64-mini-mafia?page=5
Well, he did get pretty angry as town in the Vanilla game... The one that just ended.
Tbh I think it's not alignment-indicative for him.
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On November 02 2015 23:43 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 23:31 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:23 ShoCkeyy wrote:On November 02 2015 23:18 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta: On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this. He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way. On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote:
rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team. This is also my best suggestion as well. Which game are you referring to? I think he can get plenty angry as town too lol He can get angry as town too, haven't never seen him play as town. I'm just basing it off my previous game with him, which is why I rather not have him on the first mission. Here is the page where he gets angry because he messed up and/or things just didn't go his way. (Super mini mafia, you can read through it fairly quickly). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497064-star-fox-64-mini-mafia?page=5 Well, he did get pretty angry as town in the Vanilla game... The one that just ended. Tbh I think it's not alignment-indicative for him. How much can I trust you with that piece of information? The one thing I'm getting from you right now is that you're friends with rayn, as to where I see rayn being on the other side of the fence due to my previous encounters with him.
Well, see this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/496215-mini-mafia-the-kinda-vanilla-experience?user=raynpelikoneet (he was town) - if you still think he's scum based on that "anger" point, dunno what to say 
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On November 02 2015 23:39 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 23:34 Half the Sky wrote:On November 02 2015 23:29 Xatalos wrote:
What's your read on me btw, HTS? Would be nice to hear your reads on every player before the team suggestion really. Right now? nullish - I want to look a little more closely at any conclusions you make on people and how you get there before I'm a little more comfortable. At least I'll know I'll be getting to that sooner. Actually l'll take this a bit further: Town/Resistance: rayn Sueprbia (will review the TMI argument) Town lean:none at this point Null: Xata (will review) Shockey SL Artanis Scumlean: Kita Rels (will review TMI argument) That's where I am now.
Hmm... Not the worst list post, I guess, though I wonder a bit how I'm still null.... Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself.
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On November 02 2015 23:47 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 23:44 Half the Sky wrote:
I know you don't/can't play often, but I still have a decent memory of what to expect from a town Kita...and right now I'm not seeing a town Kita. Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 23:46 kitaman27 wrote:
I'd expect a spy to push something along the lines of "kita isn't contributing what I would expect from his town play", rather than trying to paint me in a bad light from the start. lolol I swear I didn't read your response before posting this. 1 down! :D
Lol, so you say
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On November 02 2015 23:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 23:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:On November 02 2015 23:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 02 2015 23:46 kitaman27 wrote:On November 02 2015 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
kitaman because he is talking about setup which is a big no-no in this game unless you are scum and want to give advice to your teammates, like "this is something i would not recommend to do". Well the goal was indeed to give advice for my teammates. You don't need to automatically conclude that the advice was spy motivated. 36% success to 18% success is a significant drop off. The problem is that is actually bad advice. How is that bad advice?... There are certain situations where not picking yourself as town is the best move you can possibly make.
Hm?
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On November 02 2015 23:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Xatalos - because I haven't looked into you that closely. Aside from yourself, where else do you disagree, or do you? At least you agree on the other two to take.
And yes there are still too many nulls. Artanis has legit reasons (the ones he's cited are reasons he's discussed with me out of game and prior to this game starting) and I know sicklucker sleeps during the day and works at night. So I don't know if that will resolve at least before I fly home before deadline, or if that even happens.
Well, continue reading 
Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. I don't think you ordered the reads within the groups?
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On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there?
Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.
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On November 03 2015 00:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
After your read on Xatalos, HtS, i would like you to explain how do you get where shockeyyy is coming from with his read.
Well, I hope he's currently reading the game I linked. If he comes to the conclusion that you rage regardless, he could be misguided town. If he keeps pushing it, he's probably scum.
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On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:07 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there? Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation. yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?
Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.
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On November 03 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Xatalos - because I haven't looked into you that closely. Aside from yourself, where else do you disagree, or do you? At least you agree on the other two to take.
And yes there are still too many nulls. Artanis has legit reasons (the ones he's cited are reasons he's discussed with me out of game and prior to this game starting) and I know sicklucker sleeps during the day and works at night. So I don't know if that will resolve at least before I fly home before deadline, or if that even happens. Well, continue reading Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. I don't think you ordered the reads within the groups? No not really but if I had to Kita was more scummy than Rels, and rayn is more town if I am splitting hairs than Superbia. Nulls - SL/Artanis are policy lynch equivalent. At least Shockey is now trying to do something. And rayn, quick response to your question as I read Xata's filter - my comments there were in reference to that Shockey is (meta) reading you off one game. The read isn't malicious (from what I can tell) but I pointed out that his tone is NAI and he assumed it to be so. It's wrong, I pointed out why it's wrong, but as we are discussing it, there is no malicious (mafia) intent. Still I feel I need more to see him more clear as town because that is the only substance I see from him now. Does that make sense?
Well, I can kind of agree with that. It didn't really even feel like a "malicious" twisting of rayn's meta, just wrong.
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On November 03 2015 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:12 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 03 2015 00:07 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there? Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation. yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right? Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game. Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia. Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.". Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.
You mean he could be trying to make you ragequit or something?
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On November 03 2015 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 00:17 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 00:14 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:On November 02 2015 23:54 Half the Sky wrote:
Xatalos - because I haven't looked into you that closely. Aside from yourself, where else do you disagree, or do you? At least you agree on the other two to take.
And yes there are still too many nulls. Artanis has legit reasons (the ones he's cited are reasons he's discussed with me out of game and prior to this game starting) and I know sicklucker sleeps during the day and works at night. So I don't know if that will resolve at least before I fly home before deadline, or if that even happens. Well, continue reading Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay. I don't think you ordered the reads within the groups? No not really but if I had to Kita was more scummy than Rels, and rayn is more town if I am splitting hairs than Superbia. Nulls - SL/Artanis are policy lynch equivalent. At least Shockey is now trying to do something. And rayn, quick response to your question as I read Xata's filter - my comments there were in reference to that Shockey is (meta) reading you off one game. The read isn't malicious (from what I can tell) but I pointed out that his tone is NAI and he assumed it to be so. It's wrong, I pointed out why it's wrong, but as we are discussing it, there is no malicious (mafia) intent. Still I feel I need more to see him more clear as town because that is the only substance I see from him now. Does that make sense? Well, I can kind of agree with that. It didn't really even feel like a "malicious" twisting of rayn's meta, just wrong. Do you really think that is the scummiest thing he can find in this thread at that point? Like really?
Well, it reminded me a bit of my case on you last game (you similarly OMGUSing me both times)
Let's see what he comes up with now.
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Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least.
On the other hand, it'd feel less up to chance if I was included. I'll have to think about who should be preferably dropped... Maybe Superbia? He made some good posts recently, but I still dislike the initial push on me, making me a scumread so casually and continuing the push disregarding what I actually said there.
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Just statistically, the chances of scum being included would go like 76% -> 46%. Yeah, seems good. Not to mention that the drop should be even more dramatic with reads/reasoning included..
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Yeah, HTS/rayn/Xata could work... HTS has seemed pretty focused on solving the game, and rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum.
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On November 03 2015 01:01 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 23:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey Rels why do you actually think i am town? I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before.
Hm... Who would replace rayn then?
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Oh oops, I thought HTS posted that post :D
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On November 03 2015 01:08 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote:
Yeah, HTS/rayn/Xata could work... HTS has seemed pretty focused on solving the game How do you differentiate HTS solving the game as town from HTS setting herself up as a likely nomination as spy by bringing along active players? Were there certain posts that you can point me to that suggest she is analyzing things from only a town perspective?
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.
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On November 03 2015 01:17 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:02 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 01:01 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 23:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey Rels why do you actually think i am town? I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before. Hm... Who would replace rayn then? In which team ? rayn could be town so I'm OK with him in a team; I would prefer you / Xata / me though.
I actually thought HTS posted that previous though when I answered What does Xata / Xata / Rels mean btw :D
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On November 03 2015 01:16 Rels wrote:Man HTS you're not reading properly. Are you on a phone ? First you messed up the TMI stuff, then this: Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote:On November 03 2015 00:56 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 23:27 Half the Sky wrote:On November 02 2015 23:21 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 23:12 Half the Sky wrote:On November 02 2015 23:01 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 22:56 Half the Sky wrote:On November 02 2015 18:19 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 18:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
What i am trying to say that i find it suspicious you are not trying to make reads yet, and i think that is not normal for you. Especially when this is not a situation where making reads does not help anything (unlike for example if in a mafia game you think everyone who has posted so far are town).
If i compared this to a normal mafia this would be a situation where you know at least one of the people who have posted is mafia for sure but you are refusing to figure it out further. OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you. This post seems somewhat contradictory (not the only post I'll comment on from Rels). Based on the sentences bolded you should in theory be scumleaning the three you listed. I'm also not clear on why you are scumreading rayn or what is jumping out at yoru scumread on rayn. I understand your argument for your initial exchange on Superbia/Xatalos is that Superbia's read on Xatalos was manufactured and I'm seeing your followup on page 16, but where was the suspicion on rayn coming from page 11? I thought this question was scummy: On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:
[quote]
No. That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them. So what, do you think we are all scum or what? No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that. On November 02 2015 22:56 Half the Sky wrote:
Also Rels, my post on shockey was because of him saying he's catching up, he hadn't posted jack all before that. It indicates that you read the thread, or at least the last few posts starting page 16, when you said you were stuck on page 12. Not sure it's alignement indicative but I have no idea why you would lie about that. I don't see how that made rayn scummy. He's coming to conclusions with his arguments and he's trying to see if you are coming to conclusions on people's alignments which is generally a town trait. And if you are struggling, why, townies can struggle with getting reads too (reference rsoultin in Drams) so naturally he's nitpicking to see your rationale. Mm maybe I didn't explain why I thought it was scummy. On November 02 2015 18:09 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 18:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 02 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:On November 02 2015 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I take it that you don't have any townreads Rels? No. That's interesting since there are five people who have posted something that can actually be at least considered as content. If you exclude yourself from the pool, that leaves you four people. Now for you, it is impossible that those four people are al scum -- there has to be at least one townie in them. So what, do you think we are all scum or what? No. That is a dumb question. I'm pretty sure you were the one refusing the answer dumb questions like "are you mafia ?", maybe in the newbie game with noobking. Let me check that. Oh I actually did! The scummy isn't nitpicking specific points, which is something town!rayn always do; the problem was asking a dumb question, when I remembered him getting angry at the fact he was being ask a dumb question, so I don't know why he would do this himself. Now rayn quoted the angry post, and it was not really the same context. Admittedly I'm finding this tenuous but after reading a few times I think I am understanding your viewpoint, you are saying that rayn isn't acting consistently between games (correct?). I don't agree this makes him scum, but I can at least see this. My only thing here - "are you mafia?" he and others have done this (example: Koshi - "how mafia are you?") out of spite/emotion, and I'm not sure such types of questions can really be taken seriously nor most people who ask them don't really expect, those questions are out of emotion imo - how can people really answer? For example when Koshi does this he accompanies that question with something else to substantiate that emotion (reference: Void), rayn does the same thing except he splits his posts up (reference SOTW I believe). The reason I disagreed with the question being dumb because I saw the purposes and how he reached his conclusions from the questions asked. Am I making sense here? You are making sense. You are wrong concerning rayn. I don't see him asking dumb questions like that. In fact, he gets angry when he's being asked dumb questions. But I agree the "do you really have 4 scumreads ?" was more of an accusation that a dumb question. So you are saying that I'm wrong in my read on rayn (you are implying he's scum, correct?) No, I'm not implying he's scum in that post. I'm implying that he wouldn't ask a dumb question. I did it when I said "I don't see him asking dumb questions like that". Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote:
Why do you think his "are you mafia" is a serious (albeit dumb) question that should be taken serious and such a scumread - and why do you think this offsets the rest of his play (play that does not involve you)? I don't anymore. I did it when I said "But I agree the "do you really have 4 scumreads ?" was more of an accusation that a dumb question." (actually I did it before, but I restated it in the post you quoted) Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote:
Are you suggesting in any form that I should remove him from my team? I didn't suggest anything from the post above. But since you're asking, I would like you to elect Xatalos / kita / me. rayn instead of one of the three could be OK too. And since I suppose the next question will be "but you were suspicious of kita!", I liked his recent posts.
kita......?
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EPT
