TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden - Page 23

On July 18 2015 04:28 ruXxar wrote:


I never said I wouldn't listen to your analysis.
I won't listen to analysis that I consider based on false premises.
Doesn't matter who the case is about or how much I scum-read them.

On July 18 2015 04:34 ruXxar wrote:


I already explained this:

in context of damdreds pushes this game it's a strong push.
in context of pushes in general it's not a very strong push.

These 2 are not mutually exclusive.

On July 18 2015 13:25 Breshke wrote:
Rsoultin idk if Ruxxar hard defending HF is necessarily that scum indicative now. Like I can pose questions like why did he just keep town reading him even when it looked like we were definitely going to lynch him.

Did he not say he townread him but would still lynch cos martyr. I feel that is a retarded thing to say as scum because you can just flip your read and no one would blame you.

if you are town I could see Ruxxar being scum because him pushing you for the trefel stuff could be because it would continue the shitfight between you and HF but I don't think that's the case.

On July 08 2015 07:44 ruXxar wrote:
@rsoultin.

HF, was putting pressure on trfel. And well founded pressure too with the way trfel has been playing this game.
Putting pressure on people is a good thing, it's an excellent tool for extracting information.
Yet you seem to have a problem with people putting pressure on trfel, and you guard him like a watch dog.

The issue is not that you came with your opinion on trfel, that is completely fine and legit.
The problem is that you acted irrationally and actively tried to disrupt and deny us information out of Trfel.
When someone observes a contradiction or inconsistency in what people say and they question them about it, the most anti-town thing you can do is try to interject and derail the questioning, which is exactly what you did.

Tell me this, why are you defending Trfel when he is perfectly capable of defending himself?
Furthermore, he might be mafia, so why are you so adamant about defending someone without knowing their alignment?
Your goal as town should be to get as much information out of anyone as to form a basis of judgement on.
Blindly defending people as town is an incredibly bad way to play.

Combined with your other actions this game, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

On July 08 2015 07:52 rsoultin wrote:


do you even begin to realize how difficult it is for me to even bother finish reading this pile of shit when it's clear you didn't bother to actually READ our interaction?

go away, or actually fact check your own fucking claims

i've answered all your leading questions already

i've formed my judgment on truffle and until i actually see anything to indicate otherwise, you can bite me

i was right on gb. i was right on damdy. i was right on bugs. i was right on hf. i was right on you. and i was right on wave and oats. but instead of CONSIDERING after seeing my play last game and losing the game while ignoring my advice in your newbie, that i might actually have a good fucking toneread on truffle you try to paint it as me denying information?

lol ><

On July 08 2015 08:50 ruXxar wrote:


I read your interaction just fine.
Let me recap my view of it, just so you can correct me if I'm missing something.

1st interaction: Starts here
Recap:
HF: "Trfel you are playing like burnt out mafia"
RS: "I don't think he is, but I'll find out soon for sure"
HF: "I don't need your opinion RS"
RS: "Trfel is town, your reads are wrong!".
HF: "I don't need you go away".
Mod: Interrupts.

2nd interaction: Starts here
Recap:
HF: "I wanted to force Trfel to present his argument in a logical manner"
RS: "HF is misrepresenting me and being a dick, I don't mind if you question Trfel"
HF: (Posts quotes where you disrupted him from questioning)
RS: "You were trying to shit on me!"
HF: "I don't deny being a dick, but I was trying to pressure trfel to gain information"
RS: "Stop questioning him so early! Let's talk about something else"
(topic changed)

3rd interaction: Starts here
Recap:
HF: "Trfel there's an inconsistency in your read on LS, explain why".
RS: "HF, you can't read!"
RS: "I want to let trfel answer for himself, but you guys are too stupid!"
HF: "How is that not reading?"
RS: "Trfel already explained it!"
HF: "Explained it how?"
RS: "HTS saw the questioning, why don't you get it?"
HF: "How does that explain him changing his stance?"
RS: "You are stupid HF!"
(Shitfight ensues, questioning derailed)

It's all pretty obvious disruption from my point of view.
Once again you're derailing.

I'm not going away anytime soon.

On July 08 2015 09:57 rsoultin wrote:


just because you paraphrase it this way doesn't make it correct ^^

why don't you talk to me about your other reads instead of trying to convince me i'm scum? you're clearly not attempting to determine my alignment at all with the bias-laden wording in your posts

On July 08 2015 13:22 ruXxar wrote:


If it's incorrect then you should correct it.
If you don't I'll assume its correct.
I went through all the posts and wrote down my interpretation of them.

I don't need to convince you that you're scum, I'm trying to convince everyone else.

What bias?
This is my interpretation of the events.
I encourage everyone that don't believe me to go read for themselves and make up their own mind.

On July 06 2015 21:59 KelsierSC wrote:
ok so i looked at the first 4 pages in each game

4 page analysis, xP count

himalayas - 6
Noir - 11
hajime - 9
ass - 13

nsm - 8
carnival - 14

Gaiden 11

I think the amount over the first few pages isn't that indicative

##unvote

On July 18 2015 20:30 ruXxar wrote:


I adequately explained my reason for switching to HF last minute.


Not sure how you managed to misinterpret that simple statement.

Not knowing what to do with myself?
My primary goal has always been to ensure that we don't have a no-lynch.
We can't win as town if we don't lynch mafia.

The reason I switched off HF is pretty easy to understand as well:
If mafia switch off, then we know who the mafia are.
Ergo, we are ensured to get mafia next day.

I'm flailing around?
No I'm pretty sure of what I want to do.
This is all pretty simple in my head.

There are almost certainly mafia in the HF vote and nothing is going to convince me otherwise.
You are the scummiest person on that list.
I don't see anything that prevents you from being mafia together with Kelsier or damdred.
I don't see anything that prevents you from being mafia together with Trfel, Clarity, HTS, Obi or WoS.

This day is pretty straight forward to me.

##Vote rsoultin.

On July 07 2015 09:26 Holyflare wrote:
I've played like 2 games with trfel and both times i've been mafia. He never played this poorly ever. I even complimented him when I was mafia in a newbie game because he thought he played badly and he was playing well. This is below trash tier and I have much more respect for him than this.

On July 17 2015 06:56 Holyflare wrote:
you should want mafia to switch off and no lynch because then you get free mafia tbh

On July 18 2015 22:39 ruXxar wrote:
Here's the breakdown of my rsoultin case and then you guys can decide for yourself.
Why rsoultin is scum:

---

The "xP" usage.
The numbers don't lie, it was a significant statistical difference.

Stats aside, the way she was using them just looks bad. It's artificial and fake.
It looks like an attempt and making her opinions less threatening.
Trying to diffuse tension as to not get a backlash when she's talking to people.
It's like saying "Hey i'm disagreeing with you but don't be offended by my opinion cuz xP".
You basically take away any strength that is enclosed in your statement.
You make it appear like you're giving an opinion, but the force behind the statement is gone so it's essentially meaningless.
This is perfect for scum that wants to appear like they're active and giving an opinion, but does not want to offend anyone or be taken seriously because the tone of their posts is very jokey.

---

Defensive post out of context.
This post is super scummy.

Like what is this even?



This is single-handedly the most scummy post she has made this game.
This post appears on page 71.
The last time anyone was seriously discussing this was over 20 pages ago.
Yet she comes with this out of the blue, still hung up on it in her head, still needing to ridicule a case that was pushed on her because she felt threatened by the fact that it someone might actually still pick up on it.
Why is she even in the mindset of doing that when that train had long passed?
A town person wouldn't even care at this point, but as scum you're always paranoid that something is going to come bite you in the ass.

And then she somehow tries to give an opinion on something in between there.
This is the perfect case for why opinions given together with "xP" are essentially meaningless.
You can't take anything she says in this post seriously.

This post is so bad I'm almost willing to lynch her for this alone.

---

Unable to clearly answer questions:
Just read this conversation: (better read in the thread that in the quotes)
+ Show Spoiler +

What I see is a person unable to give a clear answer to a question, responds poorly to pressure and is unable to formulate a clear answer.
Let me explain how what rsoultin said makes no sense:

She said that kelsier was scummy for doing something retarded.

She then said that retardation is mafia indicative for intelligent people(which she thinks kelsier is).

She then said that if kelsier was scum, then the kelsier push was too retarded to achieve anything i.e kelsier is town?


This last quote is the most peculiar one.
She's claiming that kelsier is scum for making a retarded push on her.
Yet he dropped the push because it wouldn't achieve anything anyway.
So why did he make the push in the first place as scum if it was never going to achieve anything.

She thinks kelsier is intelligent. but the the push he made was retarded.
Yet somehow kelsier wouldn't know the push was retarded until AFTER he made it and not BEFORE?

Absolute rubbish.

---

The trfel case:

Rsoultin had a town-read on trfel. Which is completely fine.
But the way she went about disrupting HF from pushing Trfel is complete non-sense from a town perspective.
She instigated HF into a shit-fight and insisted on interjecting, derailing the whole questioning of trfel and alleviating pressure off him when HF had legitimate concerns.

This is how it went down:

I expressed my concerns about rsoultins behavior, and accused her of disrupting trfel.
Instead of coming back with a level-headed response she called my accusation a pile of shit and that I didn't read the interaction. Basically she dismissed it because apparently I hadn't read the interaction well enough.



So I go back and re-read it again carefully for two reasons

1) To make sure that what I said was actually correct, I could've been wrong.
2) To bring her more concise evidence that she could dispute.

So I do that and end up with the paraphrasing in my post here:



I bring her concrete evidence of what she's doing and link to the pages I get the paraphrasing from.
And her response (knowing very well that what I've paraphrased is correct)
Still insists it's incorrect as to not give credit to my case on her:



She even goes on trying to change the topic.
Here I am bringing in a heavy accusation against her, and she just brushes it off as if it was nothing instead of actually trying to correct it or explain what she really was doing.

I tell her that it's incorrect she has to tell me HOW it's incorrect or I'll assume that I was correct.
My paraphrasing is pulled directly from the quotes in the thread, so there's a very small chance that it's incorrect, but I'm willing to listen if she can explain why.
I'm not trying to push something on her that's contrived.
I'm openly inviting everyone to review the interaction for themselves.
This is not something I made up on my own, this is directly pulled from conversation in the thread.



Yet she keeps insisting the my paraphrasing is faulty and that it's clearly wrong just by reading the interaction.
Well I did read the interaction that what I got out of it is what I stated.



Again she's brushing off my paraphrasing as scummy instead of actually trying to explain what the correct way to read the situation was.
Super scummy behavior trying to discredit my case on her by simply saying it's wrong instead of giving reasoning for why it's wrong.

I later proved that my paraphrasing was correct when I pulled the quotes for paraphrasing:



What I want you to take from all this is not just the fact of her disrupting HF's questioning but the way she reacted when accused of it.
Instead of saying "here's where you're wrong because I meant this and this", she instead calls my accusation a "steaming pile of crap" and "wrong".
She tries to dismiss it and change topics instead of actually pointing out where I am wrong.
That is scum behavior if I've ever seen it.

---

Besides that, most of her filter is just fluff and useless comments.
She's not critically thinking about the game or trying to infuse new thoughts.
I see no resemblance of someone actually trying to solve the game.
What has she done this game besides defending trfel, getting into shit fights and making useless comments?

I'll be more than happy to lynch rsoultin today.

On July 06 2015 08:00 Clarity_nl wrote:
Can't help but notice that your vote is on me geript.

On July 19 2015 00:40 ruXxar wrote:


1) HF was a null read until he started pushing trfel. After that point he stayed as a town-read and I did not see him doing anything after that to change my opinion of him to scum.

Your deflection of trfel inflated my town-read of him further as I saw him being the towny one out of the two of you, actually trying to figure out the game and get information out of people.

2) I never thought he was more likely to be scum than town.
In my mind my priority was Lynch > no-lynch.
Then HF pointed out that if people switch off HF they're practically confirmed scum.
Which I didn't consider before he mentioned it.

3) My strongest town-reads right now are :

Oatsmaster - for previously stated reasons.
Boxerfred - for previous reasons + the fact that he's pushing on you.

I think your mafia partners are among these people

HTS
Clarity
Trfel
WoS
Obi
Breshke

That's what's so great about you rsoultin. You haven't pushed or pissed of many people, and very few people have seriously considered you as scum which is why you fit in so many worlds.

4) Shitfighting in itself isn't alignment indicative. What I'm looking at is why it arised and what it accomplished.
I found that your shitfighting disrupted the questioning of trfel which is why I'm scum-reading you for it.

On July 19 2015 03:56 ruXxar wrote:


1)
He found a discrepancy in Trfels meta play and I agreed with it, so he pushed him on it.
He found a discrepancy in Trfel's read on LS, so he pushed him on it.
Trfel was evasive in giving out his reads so he pushed him on it.

All of these things I consider towny, do you not?

2)
There's no universal law that says there has to be a scum between you and HF.
The shitfighting itself is NAI, it's the way you reacted and why it arose and what it accomplished that's scummy, not the shitfighting itself.

3)
Can you be more specific?

4)
Because having someone as a town read does not mean that you know 100% that they're town, it just means that you think they have a higher chance of flipping town than other people, and I was actively trying to get other people lynched.

5)
I do not think all of the people I listed are scum, I said that they could potentially be your partners.
In fact my scum-reads were vivax and you, the rest of the people are more or less degrees of null <-> townreads.

At this point I need to face the reality that some of my townreads are wrong, so I'm re-evaluating and those are the people I'm re-evaluating as potential scum even if I haven't found their play to be obviously scummy so far.

6)
Answered this in another post.

On July 06 2015 15:17 rsoultin wrote:


lol xP good thing we weren't playing together in that newbie game you mean

On July 08 2015 01:26 ruXxar wrote:


It's not the fact that it's one conversation, but the fact that you later(which you can see by the timestamp in the third quote), went back and emphasized the fact that he scum slipped as if that somehow lends credence to your argument.

On July 08 2015 01:28 Oatsmaster wrote:

yeah so it was twice, once when i mentioned the 2 part scumslip, then the next time when I reminded people.

Whats your problem? Dont you think its a scumslip?

On July 08 2015 01:36 ruXxar wrote:


I can think of other reasons....
I wouldn't take that risk day 1.

On July 21 2015 04:07 ruXxar wrote:
Not sure how we managed to get a no-lynch there /facepalm.
I'm mostly disappointed in breshke for switching off rsoultin when we had 6 on her.

Rsoultin is pretty much confirmed scum since she didn't get hammered by mafia, it was the easiest hammer ever if scum wanted a mis-lynch.
Only way rsoul is town here is if all 3 mafia are already voting for her.

The fact she doesn't seem aware of this and includes someone outside the vote on her in her scumteam(clarity) makes me even more certain.