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On June 03 2015 08:09 milo109 wrote:
Now that I have a second to evaluate the game without immediate fear of being lynched...
I don't think that Chocolate is necessarily mafia for his one post. It's possible he had to go, and he was basing his read on Tiktok off of two posts. It seems a fine opener. Not sure if I like VE attempting to turn attention to someone unable to defend himself.
Nydus is my white knight, and I'm sure that will skew my opinion of him but he seems town just from the irreverent way he gave his reads.
I still don't like Kickstarter. I didn't like the tone of his accusation, and the way he quickly attempted to insure he wasn't thought of 'bandwagoning on me' as if he knew I would flip town.
I'll just say that I agree with the point about Chocolate. His one post and then short afk time afterwards in my mind isn't a real indication of anything. I also second the Nydus stuff, I think his posting thus far puts him at slightly town; I just don't like that Nydus already doeesn't like me but hey what can I do.
I think you are reading way too much into my "tone", whatever than means. Not being particularly fond of me at this point in time because I railed really hard on you so far is reasonable but I would ask that you try and see what I posted from a a perspective other than "He railed on me hard therefor I don't like him", you even conceded that you were using poor logic and you aren't even mad at ritocky for doing more or less the same thing (yet your vote is still there). I don't think your read on what I was saying is at all correct but as I said I guess it is expected for you to not like me much after I went hard on you for a bit. But do you have any scum reads on anyone other than me? You've yet to come out and say anyone is scummy to you (aside from me I guess).
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On June 03 2015 08:18 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 08:12 Damdred wrote:On June 03 2015 08:09 milo109 wrote:
Now that I have a second to evaluate the game without immediate fear of being lynched...
I don't think that Chocolate is necessarily mafia for his one post. It's possible he had to go, and he was basing his read on Tiktok off of two posts. It seems a fine opener. Not sure if I like VE attempting to turn attention to someone unable to defend himself.
Nydus is my white knight, and I'm sure that will skew my opinion of him but he seems town just from the irreverent way he gave his reads.
I still don't like Kickstarter. I didn't like the tone of his accusation, and the way he quickly attempted to insure he wasn't thought of 'bandwagoning on me' as if he knew I would flip town. Last point is actually a really good point. Won't Scum give fast reads like that though with perfect information? Why wouldn't Scum,try to pocket you? Why does ve have to wait for,chocolate when he didn't deliver on a promise Please answer relevant questions
Can you point out which point of milos you think is really good? Maybe I'm just slow but I can't figure out which one.
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On June 03 2015 08:22 Damdred wrote:
...just as my last post suggests, the last point he makes is a good point.
Sigh, that still doesnt clear it up for me, I assume you mean his point about me then? I mean it is his last 'point' but I really didn't see it as a point, I guess im just biased, but if everyone else knew what point you were referring to I'll just shut up 
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EBWOP:
See milo doesn't know which point you meant either LOL ^^
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On June 03 2015 08:38 Fidei86 wrote:
@milo I still think it's a strange thing to say, and also a strange thing to think, especially as the game was only a couple of pages old and most people hadn't even posted by that stage. Still, I can understand why someone might say it out of frustration rather than any ulterior motive.
Just a note, I'm heading to bed now (it's past midnight). I'll catch up on posts in a couple of hours when I wake up. Apologies for not having more to say from the get-go, this is my first game and I'm having trouble just keeping up with all the back-and-forth, let alone getting enough to get any good reads on people.
Fair enough, when you wake and have time to read through, may I ask that you give some reads, regardless of whether or not you think they are 'good reads' . As I said at the very beginning, don't be afraid to post because of being new, giving information for town to work with both helps town get a read on you and makes you an active part of the town. So yeah, just whenever you get up can you give some specific reads on whomever you can.
I would also like to get some specific town/scum reads from people who haven't given any at this point because I feel that there is a decent amount of stuff to work with. Again, whether you think your reads are iron clad reads isn't relevant, I would rather you give us something to work with than nothing at all.
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I see it is becoming a point of suspicion that people think I'm extremely bossy/pointed/active/whatever. I would like to point out this game: newbie-mini-mafia-xxxiihttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/385389-newbie-mini-mafia-xxxii where I was way more aggressive than I am now. In fact both games where I was pretty active I was quite aggressive and got a lot of shit from both the observers and the other players for it (these games are newbie mini xxxii that I linked and newbie mini xxxi, I just linked xxxii because I remember that game the best. My other 2 games, the first one was my first and I was upset by people calling me bad/newbie/ able to be ignored so after day1 I basically lurked, and game 4 I was a baddie and was mostly afk due to irl stuff).
Anyways my point is that the aggressive vibe people are getting from me is pretty normal (and I'm trying to keep it down and away from blatant hostility like I was prone to do before). So it is normal for me and not alignment indicative (though just to stroke my ego I would posit that I was most aggressive in the xxxii that I linked and that I had the game solved day 1 before the day1 flip even took place; /egostroking ^^).
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On June 03 2015 08:47 Damdred wrote:
I'm curious why you want so many strong reads from people so early when a lot of thing a are just pure null. He'll I only have 1 really town read, one lean some nulls that are almost leans and one scummy feeling.
I want reads, whether they are strong or not is secondary. I even specified that I just wanted stuff to work with so I don't expect ironclad cases or anything, I just want stuff to work with. And while you may think a lot of things are null, I think there is plenty to work with for people to at least give opinions.
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Well of course my most obvious and strongest scum read has been on milo. I will point out that I have found his posting afterwards to be suspect as well but others have pointed it out first so I didn't really say much as I think I put on enough pressure already to get what I needed.
If you are asking for my strongest leaning I would still say milo is my strongest scum read, though I have thoughts on a few others I intend to reveal a bit later. I want to see if they post more before they know I am suspicious of them.
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Well since the request for more reads from me has been seconded give me a minute, I'm going to take a small food/washroom break, come back and read anything new, and then give my next read apart from milo.
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Again milo I think you are focusing too much on me just because I was pressuring you so hard. That is fine I guess but I still would like to hear thoughts on someone aside from me you find scummy, or am I the only one at this point? Your points in my case I don't find particularly good either but I can address those later if people think they hold weight, for now I will work on posting reads on people aside from you as I have had multiple requests to do so.
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On June 03 2015 09:25 Damdred wrote:
Also everyone is demanding more and more reads from him but the main person who,keeps screaming for,more reads gives one leaves thread promises more comes back and doesn't deliver and,nobody talks about it.
I said it would take me awhile, I am still making the post. You lot sure are impatient. I also don't see your scum reads on anyone :rollseyes:
Anyways I've only gotten so far as to reiterate and add on my milo read, adding in my other reads now so be patient.
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So my top scumread is still milo.
On milo
I of course posted earlier on but as I indicated earlier his posts since then I have still found suspect. I may be tunneling him way too hard but I am just being honest that he is still my main scum read. My main thoughts on him are here, most relevant parts are bolded:
On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:33 Kickstart wrote:
Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be.
Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote:
Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ miloCan you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote:
I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature:
##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote.
To summarize this post, his initial vote on ritocky I found suspect because he made it just because he didn't like his posting without first trying to figure out if this was normal. He had no way of knowing if this was normal from rickoty, but unlike me who tried to figure out if it was normal before making a decision, he straight up throws down a vote because he just doesn't like it.
The editing in my post where I voted on him is so wonky I can't figure it out. Regardless, at that point my most relevant point is that milo was again contradicting himself:
On June 03 2015 07:01 Kickstart wrote:
Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me, you say you are not comfortable reading people scummy yet throw a vote on him because you just said you don't think (or you aren't convinced) that he is town, which means you DID in fact read him as scummy. But an even bigger issue than that for me is that that is not what you said when you threw down the vote, you threw down the vote because you didn't like his posting, and as I said, you had no way of knowing if this was his usual posting and thus the vote was NOT a vote on who you thought was scummy, even though now you seem to be trying to indicate that it was.
I do not like your actions and I do not find this explanation from you satisfactory.
##Vote: milo109
To be fair to milo he has explained these contradictions and even conceded them.
Since then I also haven't liked that he said he didn't find ritocky voting for him scummy yet in my mind that is the only (or at least the main) reason that he reads me as scummy, but again I am biased here. I also found his claim that Chocolate was unable to defend himself weird but VE was able to point that out before me. Saying he is unable to defend himself just makes no sense in any situation at all, even if he was afk at the time its forum mafia, he could come back and read it.
Anyways, aside from milo the next person I was suspicious of (slight scum read on) is sicklucker.
On sicklucker
His very first part I found suspect:
On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote:
##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town
Since I've not played with him I don't know how much he was joking or whatever, which I tried to clarify by asking if people had played with each other and what the tictock voting was about but really I didn't get a real explanation on the tictock vote imo, I guess he kind of hinted that TT annoyed him in another game, not sure. Aside from the vote though, the immediate "I am ok with policy voting until he proves hes town" was weird to me. I guess talking about policy voting is not that unusual but for one TT has been active enough for a policy vote based on activity to not apply and secondly I think just coming out and trying to push policy vote is weird. I just read it as SL being ok with just voting on policy instead of hunting for scum. The fact that his vote remains on TT and he hasn't pushed anyone for information or anything just adds to my suspicion that he would rather vote based on policy than hunt for actual scum.
My other main gripe is that he was quite active, but posting mostly one-liners with not much substance at all. He was clearly here the entire time at the start but didn't weigh in on what was going on, which I find weird since there was a lot of discussion happening. His only two posts sharing his thoughts were these:
On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote:
I dont rly like kickstarter either. Way to tryhard for a first post for my liking.
On June 03 2015 07:39 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 07:37 Damdred wrote:
So, gut feeling is Milo stuff isn't as bad as it is being made out to,be. If you think,he's Scum Ok that's fine.
Don't tunnel him before he has tile to do anything else.
Answer me this why,can't his reasons be all he's said? Does town never contradict themselves? Are both these things only scum oriented I agree but its so unlike you to defend a person
The first one is suspect because he doesn't like someone for being "too tryhard". How does that even make sense. Aside from it being me he is suspicious of, someone being "too tryhard" is actually good I would say. So that was weird.
I guess his post directed at Damdred isn't as odd but even here he doesn't post any of his own thoughts, just says "I agree", he does say Damdred is doing something odd in defending another player. I do not know how true that statement is as I have not played with Damdred, maybe someone else can comment on if SL is correct here.
TL:DR Top scum reads are milo and sicklucker atm
(while im typing this I'm still checking the thread and milo just throwing "i Don't think you are town" at VE is funny too, but whatever).
I don't really think town reads are important at this point, but I will just say who I get slight town reads from. Again though, this is just who I probably wouldn't vote on today as what they have done thus far doesn't indicate them being scummy to me, it doesn't mean I have them pegged as town and won't ever vote or pressure them. But so far I mostly like ritocky and VE. I know I was somewhat annoyed with ritocky's posting at the start but since then it has been fine, he has spurred a lot of discussion, asked good questions, and been forthright with his opinions and thoughts. VE has done the same as far as spurring discussion and being open with his thoughts, both of which I like and think are important.
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Also glad to see GGT has joined in now, but I must admit I don't find myself agreeing with any of his points and find his jump onto TT weird :/. I outlined above that I found SL scummy and he just goes "I think you are town", so to me that is weird; and I don't see what he sees on TT.
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I second what TT is saying, to me GGs jump on him is so weird, almost as weird as his just giving SL a town read based on seemingly nothing. With that I would really want a more thorough explanation on both points from GG.
Also I think the only person who hasn't said anything at all so far is Onegu, which is quite good as far as activity goes from my past experiences. As long as Onegu and a few others give some detailed thoughts in this day period (main people I want to hear from at this point I guess are Onegu and fidei as they have given us the least to work with imo. I also want to hear more actual reads and opinions from SL, Damdred, and scott).
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@GG
I summarize because if you couldn't tell, I have a tendency to post a lot and post large posts :D. I have said what my other games are, you can check them and you will see I did the same there.
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Also, I really haven't just rehashed what others have said, I rehashed what I have said to try and clarify. Not sure if I agree that being drawn-out and repetitive is bad, I just tend to be confident and really push my opinions strongly, again you can check my games and see this.
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On June 03 2015 10:18 Tictock wrote:
Ok Kick, you looking more towny now, after those reads.
I can help explain why SL is voting me, though you've already guessed at it. He is just mad becuase I have tunneled him the past 2 games I played. Oddly I've done it for the same one liners and "I'm town" statements that you are doing now.
Since you've stated you've been looking into past games there's a paranoid voice in me going "He's trying to pocket you" since your agreeing with what I've always scummed him for, but that seems far fetched.
My general stance on SL, is that he seems to do those things as either alignment. Him being useless is just him playing the game. Hope that doesn't sound mean, I have given him ample opportunity to correct my opinion of him, but I don't think he can let go of the ego.
Haha, sl sure isnt going to like that but I appreciate the honesty and it gives me more to work with on him.
Also, full disclosure, I've not looked into anyones past games yet, and am not sure if I will :D, perhaps later on if I want more to work with but so far my general questions about players in the game have been addressed by just asking them here.
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On June 03 2015 10:27 sicklucker wrote:
tictock has not even seen me as scum...
At least in completely games we have played.
So like hes just saying things but he does that as town tbh.
Im really pissed off and probably wont be of any use for awile
Is it cruel that you made me lol =[. Don't take it personally. I actually find it interesting that even though you are both going at each other you have both basically said that the other does this as town, that is helpful. Don't get discouraged and not post =[
I in fact found that last post to be quite honest, more posts like that is all we want! Being a recluse isn't going to help and is just going to cast more suspicion on yourself, but if you need a break and will post more tomorrow or whatever that is cool too, just do so before the deadline!!!
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Thread seems to have died down a bit, I will be up for quite some time I think but I am going to go play some dota or something. Will still be reading for awhile.
As an aside I like to try and keep everyone aware of when I will be sleeping or away for extended periods so before I go to sleep I will probably say so so that people know I will be gone for a bit. Time to go lose MMR :@
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On June 03 2015 10:41 Chocolate wrote:
I don't play forum mafia very much but I don't like the idea of having town reads. To me that seems somewhat counter-productive since at this point any player could be town. It's easy for a scum player to post in a "town-friendly" way (which is I think a reiteration of the "tryhard" vibe). I believe it would be much more productive for people to look for scum reads than to try to identify people as town
@ VE do you have any opinions about people other than me and milo
After addressing everyone getting a tryhard/bossy vibe from me, do you still find me suspicious? Does my defense that this is normal from me change your opinion at all?
I agree with the town reads part, that is why I don't like to give them this early but since I was asked for opinions on more than just milo i did give a few. Do you still find scott and myself to be most suspicious or has that changed?
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EPT
