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I just want to go ahead and get this out.
A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance.
Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock:
Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to:
On June 01 2015 06:12 Damdred wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'll
/In
But will be hit and miss on activity
On June 01 2015 12:51 Tictock wrote:+ Show Spoiler +/confirm
Not very motivated atm, might pick up as the game goes on, we'll see
sorry
Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after.
Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time.
Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players:
a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious),
and,
b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town.
That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D
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It seems some of you already know each other well, at least I gather that from the Tictock banter. Anyone care to give me some background? Who has played with each other before, who is good, why are there 2 votes immediatly on TT?
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On June 03 2015 06:10 Tictock wrote:
@ Kick
It has always been my policy to deal with inactives by reading their actual posts that much harder.
The idea is that if they are only willing to share a small amount of thoughts or thinking then we should take those posts even more literally/seriously.
My point is that we need to foster an environment that doesn't allow inactivity, this is clearly the best environment to have and thus we should strive for it. How we will deal with people that are inactive anyways is another matter. Also people should, eventually, share most of their thoughts. Holding back your thoughts initially to build on them is fine, I already find some things scummy but I am waiting to add to this so as not to let the person/people I find scummy change what they are doing so soon.
On June 03 2015 06:12 ritoky wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:02 Kickstart wrote:I just want to go ahead and get this out. A good town environment is one in which no one is allowed to lurk or be passive and not post much of their thoughts. While I honestly don't know any of the players in this game I believe some are new so to them and to everyone else, you have to post. Whether you are 100% sure in your reads or not, posting is good for town. Even if your reads are wrong, being active is good for town to figure out the game. I refuse to allow the game to be a passive one where several people are lurking and not being active and contributing to the conversation because that automatically makes the game harder on town and lessens town's win chance. The 10 post per cycle rule enacted by the host is a good first step but I think it is up to us to make sure that people don't abuse the rule by just posting the minimum number of times and saying nothing of substance. Now what I said applies to every game of course, an active town is always better than a passive town with several lurkers; but I particularly wanted to lead in with this point because I already feel like we might be heading in the direction of a passive/inactive town. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Damdred and Tictock already posted before the start of the game that they might not be active. Here are Dam's and TT's posts I am referring to: Thankfully they have both said that they are just sort of busy at the start but will have more time and be more active. I just want to urge them both to be as active as they can from the start, that way everyone can gets reads on them and we don't let them both through just because they aren't active in the first phase but might be in the phases after. Just to be clear though, I am not accusing either of you nor am I suspicious of you for it, because those statements are clearly not alignment indicative because they were made before the game began and people had their roles. I am just saying that I refuse to allow the game to devolve into a passive town game with people lurking and posting nothing of substance and those events already have me worried that we may find ourselves in that position. So I urge you, along with everyone else, to be as active as you can, even if you are strapped for time. Now that that is out of the way, could those who have played in games with some of the other people in the game (or if you know them) tell me who the strong players? I haven't played mafia on here since 2012 so I have no idea who the good players are and I think knowing this is helpful. I know this request seems a bit scummy ("Oh you wan't to know who the good players are so you can get rid of them!") but I will just concede that and say that knowing who is good tells everyone that those players: a) should not be lurking because if they are good they are usually always active in their games (so if they are lurking and posting not much substance it will be suspicious), and, b) they would be valuable assets (so we should expect strong town play from them and we would expect mafia to try and get rid of them), both good pieces of information for town. That is all I have for now, get to posting and being active everyone! :D saw good town environment, stopped reading. ![[image loading]](http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h38/mrcrapinson/GregFart.gif~original)
Can you clarify please? I think you mean you basically eyerolled at my post at the second line and didn't bother reading it. Could you clarify what you meant, and in the future not post your thought in the form of GIFs and images?
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To be fair I already don't like his posting either. Its kind of amusing though because I asked that people don't abuse the 10 post rule by just posting 10 substance-less posts and calling it a day, which is the exact impression he is giving me by first not even reading my post (at least that's what I assume his post quoting me meant, until he clarifies as I have asked him to do) and by expressing everything in images or GIFS.
@ ritoky
Please stop expressing thoughts in this manner, if you want to add them on at the end fine, but posting only an image or gif, or only a one liner followed by an image/gif is in no way helpful.
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Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be.
Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started.
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On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:33 Kickstart wrote:
Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be.
Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore?
Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier.
On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote:
Oh like, he's policing how much people post?
Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct
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I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now.
I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly.
@ milo
Can you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts:
On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote:
I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image....
On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature:
##Vote ritoky
While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote.
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On the topic of post requirements, host posted this:
On June 02 2015 22:51 GlowingBear wrote:
There is a minimum activity required of 10 posts per cycle (in other words, 10 post per 72 hours), which is already low. I don't like games where people have so much low activity that it is impossible to have an idea of his/her alignment. The only way to play forum Mafia is to write posts. If there are no posts, there is no game.
I've talked to mtamburini and he will be on the replacement list. So there is one spot for any player who wants to sign in
How strict they will be on the 10 required posts per cycle is up to them, but that is what I was referring to earlier.
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On June 03 2015 06:53 milo109 wrote:@ miloCan you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote:
I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature:
##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote.
Pretty sure I explained above. I'm not comfortable reading people scummy yet, due to that lack of information. I am certainly not convinced that ritoky is town from the way he has played. I see no reason not to pressure him. [/QUOTE]
Just to be clear, DO NOT EDIT THAT POST (against the rules), but you should preview your posts before posting ;]. I will help everyone out, he basically responded to my post:
On June 03 2015 06:49 Kickstart wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 06:36 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 06:33 Kickstart wrote:
Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be.
Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? Check the TL Mafia Database in the username section, all users who have played are listed and all the games they have been in are in their spolier. On June 03 2015 06:38 Tictock wrote:
Oh like, he's policing how much people post? Assume he means that is basically boiled down to how I think the game should be played, which is basically correct. But I would argue that everything I said is correct ----------------------- I was not pleased with ritoky at first but I like his recent posting and at least he is explaining things now. I want to hear more from milo now because everything he has done thus far gives me a scrum read on him, if only slightly. @ miloCan you explain why you threw a vote on ritoky? You posted these posts: On June 03 2015 06:27 milo109 wrote:
I want to vote Ritoky just for making me look at that image.... On June 03 2015 06:32 milo109 wrote:
Alright. I'll bite. For the reasons of trolling a little too much and misspelling the quote in your signature:
##Vote ritoky While I also expressed my concern with his posting style, I have been trying to find out if this is his usual style of play. My concern with the way you went about this situation is that you didn't like his posting style (which to be fair it seems many people don't either) and seem to have voted solely based on the fact that you don't like his posting style without bothering to see if he always does this. TO be more concise, the goal is to find players who are acting scummy; if, as you self proclaimed, you haven't played with him before, and you do not know if this is his usual style, you have no information to tell you if this style from him is suspicious or not. So I think your vote on him is suspect in that you made the vote because you read him as annoying, not because you read him as scummy. Thus, I would like to hear more on you about your vote.
with this:
On June 03 2015 06:53 milo109 wrote:
Pretty sure I explained above. I'm not comfortable reading people scummy yet, due to that lack of information. I am certainly not convinced that ritoky is town from the way he has played. I see no reason not to pressure him.
Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me, you say you are not comfortable reading people scummy yet throw a vote on him because you just said you don't think (or you aren't convinced) that he is town, which means you DID in fact read him as scummy. But an even bigger issue than that for me is that that is not what you said when you threw down the vote, you threw down the vote because you didn't like his posting, and as I said, you had no way of knowing if this was his usual posting and thus the vote was NOT a vote on who you thought was scummy, even though now you seem to be trying to indicate that it was.
I do not like your actions and I do not find this explanation from you satisfactory.
##Vote: milo109
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Seems people are already on milos ass for this before I could throw that post together, just keep in mind I raised the initial concern and it took me some time to write my last post, I don't want to be accused of hoping on the milo wagon!
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On June 03 2015 07:07 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 07:02 Kickstart wrote:
Seems people are already on milos ass for this before I could throw that post together, just keep in mind I raised the initial concern and it took me some time to write my last post, I don't want to be accused of hoping on the milo wagon! why are you worried about people accusing you of being on a wagon if you think he is scum? wat?
Because from my limited experience on here, hoping on a wagon is the ultimate sin. But I guess you are right, I did do it with ample justification and pressure beforehand.
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On June 03 2015 07:10 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 07:09 Kickstart wrote:On June 03 2015 07:07 ritoky wrote:On June 03 2015 07:02 Kickstart wrote:
Seems people are already on milos ass for this before I could throw that post together, just keep in mind I raised the initial concern and it took me some time to write my last post, I don't want to be accused of hoping on the milo wagon! why are you worried about people accusing you of being on a wagon if you think he is scum? wat? Because from my limited experience on here, hoping on a wagon is the ultimate sin. But I guess you are right, I did do it with ample justification and pressure beforehand. well technically you're not even on it, i am the only one who has voted in the entire game. #rektnerd
True, I'm dumb =[
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Where has SL gone?!
@sicklucker
What are your thoughts on the milo developments?
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On June 03 2015 07:18 milo109 wrote:
I'm not exactly sure how to defend myself here. I decided to vote because I didn't like ritoky's play style. I made it clear that it was not for reasons of reads. I cannot justify my vote in terms of reads, as I've already said. If you lynch me for that, it's fine. Actual reads so far that I can justify:
I don't like the use of the word 'Unfortunately' in Kickstart's accusation of me. It seems to be an attempt to come from the point of view of a paternal town, who only sadly pronounces judgement. It's possible that he actually feels that way, but it feels scummy to me.
I'll read Damdred town for now just based off his questioning of me. He caught my mistake of logic, while Ritoky and Kickstart both seem to just dislike my vote.
Ritoky is still null for me. Still don't like the playstyle. Still keeping my vote.
No idea on the others.
It just gets worse and worse. My use of 'unfortunately' was me indicating that for you, it is unfortunate that your first post wasn't convincing to me and I was pointing out that "Unfortunatly milo this again makes no sense to me,...", saying that your explanation was again not making sense to me. Also interesting that you are unsure of if I'm putting on a front, or as you put it, "It's possible that he actually feels that way". What from me would indicate that I do not feel this way lol?
I find the fact that you are scum reading me based only on the fact that I have a vote on you suspicious as well, though it is a thing new players tend to do.
Another issue is that while you read me scummy for voting you, you said that ritocky, for the exact same reason is null to you???? But then you are sticking to your original mistake and just doubling down on your scummy vote by stating "Still don't like the playstyle. Still keeping my vote." All of this makes no sense.
Also want to make sure I point out the alignment with Damdred you just made, which I want to hear more about because while I haven't been specifically keeping an eye on what he had to say to and/or about you, nothing jumped out at me.
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On June 03 2015 07:25 milo109 wrote:
Not exactly sure what your point is. I don't think you're necessarily mafia for voting me. I've not given you any grief for that. You have the same justification to vote me that I have to vote on you. Aside from that, I don't see a contradiction.
Like ritocky I see many contradictions, some of which I just pointed out. But you just made the same contradiction by saying you don't think he is necessarily mafia for voting on you, yet that seems to be exactly why you've thrown a scum read on me.
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Nydus post is just weird to me, I of course don't like his scumread on me because he admits he hasnt read then claims I am tunneling ritocky for bad posting which I am not at all doing. I admit I didn't like his image/gif nonsense but I also stated I wanted to find out if this is normal of him and since then me and ritocky have just both been pressuring milo. To Nydus and everyone, it would help if you actually read everything before posting and didnt say "I didnt read everything but I think _____", if you did this you wouldn't give everyone a confused town vibe.
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On June 03 2015 07:33 NydusHerMain wrote:
Okay so I was formatting and pressed the wrong button.... to save myself the embarassment... I'm just going to barebone the rest -_- ....
Even though I said I didn't like Kickstarter, I also, funny enough, don't like Ritoky. His playstyle is just something I'm willing to vote on irrelevant of alignment. If we lynch him and he flips mafia, I'll gladly take the credit. If he flips town, I gladly take the blame.
I have a town read on Milo, I liked his reaction to Damdred and I liked that he was pressuring Ritoky (or at least attempting to). I don't see what's scummy about him to Kickstarter. Everything he says seems genuine to me.
Also, I'm kind of glad I pressed post by accident because I'm not a very frequent poster (I usually just post big WoTs or at least plan to) and I was scared I wouldn't meet the 10 posts per 72 hours rule. Phew.... See you guys again in 9 hours since I just need to make 1 post per 9 hours to meet the quota for this cycle. PEACE
The rest of your post is even more odd to me. For one you just aligned yourself with Milo, for seemingly no reason (and I will also point out that you specifically mentioned his reaction to Damdred which was exactly what milo used as a town read on Damred but which is something that didn't stick out at all to me). Right now I clearly see a milo, Nydus, Damdred connection here which I find really odd given that, in my opinion, nothing has happened for you three to align yourselves like this. To be fair, Damdred has said nothing to align himself with them Nydus but there is a slight connection there in that these 3 seem to be thinking alike and making the same points.
@Damdred
Can you give detailed thoughts on milo and Nydus strange posts?
Also, while I'm posting this Damdred also defended milo, making the link between them 2 even stronger.
Another thing about your post that I quoted Nydus is that I really don't like that you said you are willing to vote ritocky just because you don't like his posting. Scum are the ones who don't care who is lynched, and the fact that you state that you don't care if he is town and is lynched is not an opinion a towns person should have.
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Also SL not liking me for being "too tryhard". lol ok. If you don't like me yet in my opinion I've definatly been spurring lots of discussion and posting then that is quite strange in my opinion. You also ignored my question to you:
On June 03 2015 07:15 Kickstart wrote:
Where has SL gone?!
@sicklucker
What are your thoughts on the milo developments?
But you did agree with Damdred that the milo stuff is being blown out of proportion so I guess that answers my question anyways.
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I will never go on d1 association reads to lynch someone on d1. However if someone is lynched and flips red then we clearly have to look at who associated themselves with that person. (that is to say, if we lynch milo and he flips red, there are some people who I think are going to be implicated immediately).
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On June 03 2015 07:52 NydusHerMain wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 03 2015 07:43 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 07:33 NydusHerMain wrote:
Okay so I was formatting and pressed the wrong button.... to save myself the embarassment... I'm just going to barebone the rest -_- ....
Even though I said I didn't like Kickstarter, I also, funny enough, don't like Ritoky. His playstyle is just something I'm willing to vote on irrelevant of alignment. If we lynch him and he flips mafia, I'll gladly take the credit. If he flips town, I gladly take the blame.
I have a town read on Milo, I liked his reaction to Damdred and I liked that he was pressuring Ritoky (or at least attempting to). I don't see what's scummy about him to Kickstarter. Everything he says seems genuine to me.
Also, I'm kind of glad I pressed post by accident because I'm not a very frequent poster (I usually just post big WoTs or at least plan to) and I was scared I wouldn't meet the 10 posts per 72 hours rule. Phew.... See you guys again in 9 hours since I just need to make 1 post per 9 hours to meet the quota for this cycle. PEACE The rest of your post is even more odd to me. For one you just aligned yourself with Milo, for seemingly no reason (and I will also point out that you specifically mentioned his reaction to Damdred which was exactly what milo used as a town read on Damred but which is something that didn't stick out at all to me). Right now I clearly see a milo, Nydus, Damdred connection here which I find really odd given that, in my opinion, nothing has happened for you three to align yourselves like this. To be fair, Damdred has said nothing to align himself with them Nydus but there is a slight connection there in that these 3 seem to be thinking alike and making the same points. @DamdredCan you give detailed thoughts on milo and Nydus strange posts? Also, while I'm posting this Damdred also defended milo, making the link between them 2 even stronger. Another thing about your post that I quoted Nydus is that I really don't like that you said you are willing to vote ritocky just because you don't like his posting. Scum are the ones who don't care who is lynched, and the fact that you state that you don't care if he is town and is lynched is not an opinion a towns person should have. HAHAHAHA loaded question much? Anyways, I didn't completely flesh out my Milo townread because I was kind of annoyed that I hit post before I even finished posting and when I was about to edit, I remembered it was against the rules. To me, I think he's defending himself decently against both you and Ritoky, and his vote on Ritoky didn't feel out of place. I saw it as a pressure vote and didn't see it as anything he was going to keep forever unless he continued to see Ritoky as scummy. When someone called him out for contradiction, he admitted to making the mistake pretty quickly and I don't think that it's scummy to be stuck making a logic error. If he tried to stick with the error and pretend that it was correct, then I would think he was scummy but he did the opposite.
That makes sense I guess. I would still like you to explain why you stated you would be fine voting ritocky just because you don't like his posting. I find it scummy that you stated you don't care if ritocky is town or scum but that you would be happy having him gone either way, so I would still like you to expand on this...
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On June 03 2015 08:01 ritoky wrote:
hey GB, can you make it so the player list in the OP has filters in it? ty
For me, in every persons post there is a 'filter' link in their post (top right in the whitespace), don't know if that is there in every browser or whatever but it is what I've been using.
Also I agree that it is pretty scum slippy for someone to post like Nydus did (Ill just vote off X person and I don't care their alignment) and thus probably doesn't make him scum, but I would have still liked for him to explain it :D.
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EPT
