VE - in particular, I agree with his read on scott and GG, and also on KS. I also think he has a point about the way you entered the thread (and this is something I've said before as well). None of that is to say that I have a strong read on him either way, I just don't agree that anything he has said or done obviously makes him mafia.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 03 2015 16:50 GMT

#503

Damdred - I think our posts might have crossed?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 03 2015 16:52 GMT

#506

Okay. I can't do that now as I'm about to go to a gig, but hopefully I'll get a chance in a couple of hours when I get home.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 03 2015 17:00 GMT

#507

I'll do it quickly before I go. I have been back over all of GG's posts, and I am struck by the number of people who he has complimented or otherwise referred to as town. In the case of Nydus and myself, he said that he thought we were town really without any reasoning at all. It seems to me that, as mafia, since you know who are town, you can pick out certain of them and say that you think they are town. It could be an attempt to curry favour, in the belief that the town doesn't lynch "nice" or "kind" players. Chocolate pointed that out, and I actually already did earlier in the thread as well.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 03 2015 17:20 GMT

#509

True. Chocolate's point was more that it is counter productive for a townie to give town reads, since it's so easy for Mafia to do it. I feel like we ended up at more or less the same point, and I think he makes a fair point.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 03 2015 23:59 GMT

#563

Okay, so a lot of people have come out and said that they think what I'm saying is devoid of content. With that in mind, I've gone back over all the pages of the game and put together the below. Apologies for the wall of text, but I put it together as I was reading through, so it's going to be a bit stream-of-consciousness-y.

==

@Kickstart - You said on your post on page 13 that you found some things scummy, but you were going to wait and see whether they changed. Can you now say what you were talking about?

@Damdred - In your post on page 14 you said that ritoky shouldn't be lynched and that you would "revisit him during the night to make sure". Am I missing a rule here, or did you just come out as the cop? Is it possible that there is even a cop, since Onegu has claimed VT (I assume that's veteran?)?

@Ritoky - You asked me a question on page 15 which I missed, I think. I got a poor read from your initial posts. My (admittedly newbie) view is that a mafia member wouldn't paint themselves all over the first two pages of a thread, especially with things as banal as you did. However, the obvious "next-level" play is to do it as mafia, relying upon everyone thinking that it would be far too weird a play for a non-mafia to make. One thing that struck me was that Kickstart changed his view on you when he said your posting style had improved, even though it hadn't by that point. That was strange to me. You were still posting gifs and one-liners, and I don't think you had really contributed anything of merit. It's not a lot to go on, but it all strikes me as a possible attempt for you to get yourself established as the harmless town clown, which naturally sucks all of the venom out of your accusers. Then again, later on I've already said earlier in the thread that Kickstarter's opening post was not to my taste. If I had to say, I'd say I have you both as slight-mafia reads. As to your question about VE and Chocolate, I think I answered that later. Sorry for not spotting your question until now.

@Onegu - Can you explain to me why you would claim the special town role (VT) so early on? Doesn't that just make you an easy take-out for the mafia, since nobody (except Damdred?) has counter-claimed you?

Having seen more of milo's posts, I'm leaning back towards null. We honestly didn't have that much to go on at the start, and I think his reference to being okay with lynching was probably just a slip. His recent posts strike me as the most genuinely typed things (ie don't read as being written with an agenda).

I've made a list of all of the positive and negative things that people have said so far, and the person I come out most closely aligned to is Nydus, which I guess would make him my biggest town read. Specifically, Nydus has voiced suspicions on Kickstart and ritoky, which I share. He has also been suspicious of Damdred, and I have to agree with that. Whereas Kickstarter is coming across more as a traffic cop, I think Damdred seems too keen to infuse his posts with a sense of "I am town, no arguing", which seems off to me. VE's posts have the same tone to me. When Damdred got pushed on page 28, he reacted very viciously ("this is shit!"), which doesn't read to me as frustration (which a townie would have), but more like faux-righteous anger (which is more scummy). I also, as I stated before, generally agree with Chocolate as well, which puts him more towards town for me.

However, after all of that, I see on page 27 that Kickstarter has the same view of Nydus as me, and also seems similarly critical of Damdred. So now I'm not sure what to believe.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 00:01 GMT

#564

EBWOP - In my response to Ritoky, that should be "relying upon everyone thinking that it would be far too weird a play for a MAFIA to make".

Sorry for the double-post.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 00:25 GMT

#566

[by blue, do you mean a townie with a role, like cop?]

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 00:38 GMT

#574

@milo - can you explain how else I'm supposed to read the Damdred quote? Honest question here. I've thought about it a bit, and my understanding is that only role town/Mafia get to act during night. So how could Damdred do anything, unless he had a role?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 00:42 GMT

#578

@milo okay, thanks. It seems like a weird thing to say, given that the only difference in night time is presumably the frequency of posts. Still, it would be massively weird for someone to come out as cop this early, so happy to let that one lie for now.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 00:43 GMT

#579

EBWOP - the "for now" bit at the end can be dispensed with.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 00:46 GMT

#581

@Milo - fair enough, thanks for the quick (and non-patronising) answer.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 09:59 GMT

#671

@ritoky - Could you give an explanation for why you have changed up your play-style so much from the start, where you were posting images and generally appearing to be something of a troll, to now where you are asking good questions and giving good analysis. It's confusing to me, and I'd be very interested in your reasoning / thought-process.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 10:40 GMT

#675

@Ticktock The issue I have is that, since this is my first game, I have no prior experience on which "tells" or types of behaviour are suspicious and which aren't. People earlier on in the thread seemed to just move past the change, but I think on any measure it has been pretty drastic. My read is that ritoky wanted to put himself out there straight away at the start and draw lots of attention to himself, on the basis that everyone would assume that the mafia wouldn't be so stupid so as to put themselves front and centre of the thread in a very memorable fashion. At best, I think it's quite a weak town play, because it created a lot of distraction at the start, which plays into mafia flying under the radar.

As to the change, it could be because he realised that if he kept going, people might want to vote him off anyway for being annoying / cluttering the thread (I think several people mentioned that they would 'policy' vote him), and that he can now transition into sounding like a good town, but having had all the suspicion sucked out of his play right at the start.

For me, that is very suspicious. I have read and liked a lot of the stuff he has posted subsequently, and has left me not knowing what to think, hence why I asked the question. Answers to 'difficult' questions can often be quite telling, and at worst all I've done is waste a little bit of forum space.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 10:45 GMT

#676

@ticktock also, why do you think it was a useless post? Did I miss an earlier discussion on this point (which I accept is possible)? Do you not think his behaviour is at all suspicious?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 15:59 GMT

#699

On June 05 2015 00:36 Chocolate wrote:
It's a really hard choice, honestly since i'm not really sold on anyone being 100% mafia I would just get rid of Onegu/SL as my first choice because
1. it's easy to hide as mafia if you never contribute
2. even if they are town they aren't very helpful

unless someone makes a very good case for someone else or wants to vote one of these people with me I'll probably just leave my vote on VE because it looks like he isn't going to get lynched and (I think) we need to vote for at least somebody

I really agree with what Chocolate said about Onegu, save that the lurking is so obvious (and lurking is such a classic mafia play, as I understand anyway) that he would be mad to play like this if he were actually mafia. Still, I'm leaning towards voting for him just because I don't think there's any totally slam-dunk targets today and if we mislynch on him, at least we won't be losing anyone who is being a useful townie. Obviously I'm not saying that I want a mislynch, just saying that statistically the likelihood is quite high that we will, so we should take town-contribution into account as well when voting.

Some people sort of defended him earlier, saying that this was just his usual play style when he was town. Can we hear from those people again, just to get their read now we're going into the first night?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 18:11 GMT

#734

@Scott - could you explain what you mean by "he will shine his moments when need be"? Have you played with him before?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 20:57 GMT

#883

I'm really torn on this vote, but it seems like I'm going to be the casting vote, so wasting it on a lurker doesn't seem smart. I'm going to vote for KS. I haven't liked his posting style from the start - I've found it too self-confident, and I've found myself agreeing with most of the things Chocolate has said, notwithstanding that his posts haven't been as detailed as I would have liked. I found his emotional appeal at the end quite genuine, although I guess it's impossible to read tone on the internet.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 21:00 GMT

#893

Sorry KS. I wasn't really fully sold on either you or Chocolate, but since I basically ended up being the only one online with a vote to switch, I figured it was lazy and not the right way to play the game to just let the vote expire. I'll feel pretty shitty if you're town.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

June 04 2015 21:28 GMT

#898

[Can we post again?]