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On May 07 2015 05:46 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 05:23 Half the Sky wrote:
You're also finding it hard to read Superbia I see. What do you also think of him with his responses to me? Well. First impression... to quote the late FF "He is an angry face". He seems angry and dismissive of most of your points, which I don't like. At all. But the points he makes in the beginning in regard to his playstyle probably explain why I can't read this guy at all and am not very fond of him. So his tone screams scum at me. But I guess it can be a really good playstyle for finding mafia. He is super scary.At least he dropped defending prplhz now... Currently thinking a bit in the lines of: Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 02:35 Superbia wrote:
Like do me a fucking favour, and assume that both camps are town (super/ritoky + celestial/hts) for today and see how that works out, okay? As in: He is suspicious at hell. But I don't really want to lynch him right now. I still dislike The Shining and prplhz more and have other ppl coasting around at the boarders of null.
You're scumreading Superbia based on tone and the "fucking favour" quote. But you are saying his playstyle is good for finding mafia.
How do you think he's using that playstyle?
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Let me pull those quotes in question so to make sure I'm not taking anything out of context. I want to be absolutely sure here.
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On May 07 2015 06:15 Half the Sky wrote:
Let me pull those quotes in question so to make sure I'm not taking anything out of context. I want to be absolutely sure here.
EBWOP - re ritoky
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Scumread on me D1
On May 05 2015 04:54 ritoky wrote:
wtf, this is way too diplomatic sounding. has damdred taken over your account and taught you the diplomacy voice?
On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote:
reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made.
On May 05 2015 05:45 ritoky wrote:and there's such a tonal shift between this: Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 05:37 Half the Sky wrote:On May 05 2015 05:01 ritoky wrote:
reasons being: you're noticing the same things i am but reading them opposite, you have an overly diplomatic tone that also feels forced, you're interested in a lot of things but not pushing for them, you don't feel obviously town, and your early reads were primarily summary reads that others had already made. 1 Already rationalised the opposite reads. If you agree to disagree, fine. 2 I've made points against my two top scumreads (additional against Scott/original against Superbia), neither of which are or have been in the thread as of late to further engage. But there are three scummers in this setup, so why not just keep digging and seeing what else turns up? 3 Diplomatic tone (reading what you just posted) was from one post. Go back to how I cased Superbia and tell me that's diplomatic. In fact I would think #1 (your point on reading them opposite) contradicts the fact that I'm diplomatic. The post you quoted, I'm looking for followthrough from Tictock in case you couldn't tell. 4 The "don't feel obviously town" is about as bad as it gets as you could apply that to half the players in this game right now. That's a PoE argument best saved for late game. Plus you were more interested in Stutters when you threw your vote on me. There are some flaws in your logic. Particularly #3. Try again. and this: Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 04:51 Half the Sky wrote:On May 04 2015 05:23 Tictock wrote:
Both Superbia and The Shining made some eyebrow raising early game plays, but they appear to be contributing now and I can easily see the early game stuff being sillyness or just attempts at pressure. No real reads on them.
I'm getting pretty strong town vibes from y0su, disformation, and ritoky. I really like disformation's attempts to poke and ask questions. y0su is my weakest read of these 3, but feels like a solid town.
Everyone else... well there simply isn't enough out of prplhz or sicklucker to really go off of. Not much to go off of Stutters695 either, another person who states he "doesn't do day 1" which is pretty meh but NAI.
Pretty much all I got for now. On May 04 2015 16:16 Tictock wrote:
I left HtS out of my earlier reads due to just joining the thread. That was awhile ago and HtS did not provide much besides some suspicions against Superbia. Getting a scum read for now until there is something to show otherwise.
As for Superbia, I'm having a hard time getting a solid read now. I was getting a scum vibe from his play the first half of D1 here but he is looking more town here near the end of the day. I want to keep an eye on him but atm he doesn't seem like a good lynch.
prplhz is looking pretty scum to me right now too. He made one post with actual content and even that was mostly an excuse as to why he isn't posting.
Scott put himself in a position where he looked pretty bad, but lately he's bee making an effort and seems fairly calm given the suspicions around him. That feels town to me, he's not ignoring what ppl say about him but he's not focused on defending himself either.
prp and HtS really need to contribute, SL and Stutters are also barely active & have contributed nothing solid thus far. I am really curious to see what Tictock has to say on Superbia particularly on the exchange between him and Celestial if he has any input or even between that and Shining. Both disinformation and myself are also headscratching on him at the moment, and one of my issues with Superbia is that particular exchange. I realise he's partying hard (happy birthday btw!) but look forward to a response when he returns. in terms of my 3rd point. you're actually pushing me on the points i made above, which is cool and i can get behind that. yet here you're curious and in passive voice and not actively seeking responses or answers, which i can't get behind and sounds mafia being diplomatic style.
Criticism of Superbia train
On May 07 2015 02:16 ritoky wrote:
i am not particularly a fan of this superbia lynch. it seems very similar to the scott lynch. same people pushing it, no1 defending superbia, a lot of tone reasoning, and no real exploration into other people. i feel like one of the few people considering alternatives.
someone might be railroading this game....need to figure out whom.
I'm pretty sure I'm comparing apples to apples here.
ritoky, given this comparison, when are you feeling it appropriate to use tone reasoning to scumread people?
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I have to duck out for a bit, attend to EoD in another ongoing game. Might be gone for the evening....not sure.
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sicklucker....I really need your response on Superbia's reaction. Additional scumreads please.
You even held yourself accountable to that.
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Work is absolutely insane today. Figures. I'm catching up and will be in and out today.
Unvoted Superbia and voted prplhz. I'm still very confident prplhz is scum. I realise some will say it's a policy vote because of his inactivity but the focus shouldn't be his inactivity it's the way he HAS played. To recap the scum points from the play he has.
1 Sheeped the case on me by ritoky/Superbia without having reads on them or me.
2 Scumreads on Stutters and myself were at best OMGUS
3 There is no follow through on any of his reads whatsoever. This includes his read for tictock.
4 Wishy-washy reads on tictock when questioned by ritoky D1.
5 A middle of the road read on me as well at EoD 1 - when I questioned him on why he was scumreading me, he said I was angry and emotional instead of being calm and then turned around and said I was overcompensating for being too diplomatic. Meta read on me was extremely fabricated (quoted below):
On May 05 2015 04:54 prplhz wrote:
okay wtf deadline is tonight
i don't know about scot31337. i got a good feeling about him pointing out that the shining was joking when other people couldn't see it. i also don't feel like lynching into some new guy for hardly any reason, did that way too much in last student mini.
actually i'd much rather lynch hts. hts pointing out last game that it was obvious we were going in the wrong direction when we lynched a new guy for the third day in a row but now she doesn't mind continuing for a fourth day in a row? i don't know the cases on scot31337 don't speak to me at all and one of them is by celestial that i also have a bad feeling about (that people don't share for some reason).
(Even with this read, if he didn't like celestial, earlier in his filter, he didn't push celestial at all for being "super tryhard.")
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On May 07 2015 14:43 Tictock wrote:
Anyone else around? I keep feeling like I'm all alone in here when I actually have time to be part of a discussion.
Sidenote - I think timezones have a lot to do with this. The two dead players are NA and most of the remaining players are EU.
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Just quickly skimming, tictock and Shining both appear to have a series of posts where they are critically questioning/thinking things through. Neither of them should be the votes today. I will try and look at them a bit more in detail when I get some space at work if things pop out.
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I'd have to agree with tictock that I don't agree with how ritoky is using confirmed town, but we had at least hashed out the interpretations, so I'm personally taking that as NAI, ritoky is confirmed town to himself, though it doesn't make him confirmed town to the rest of the game. I think it's obvious I'm confirmed to myself but only a DT check/night action mechanic/flip would confirm me to the game.
It's just semantics, that point, that is.
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Other things that are sticking out to me about people just skimming through.
1 I asked Stutters to name two scumreads if prplhz replaces out. He is pushing prplhz, his action which is is 100% town. However, though he hasn't named, he is exploring other scumreads. He doesn't appear to like sicklucker and doesn't seem to like y0su and ritoky from what I read of his filter.
2 sicklucker named Stutters and y0su as secondary scumreads, and y0su for making the "worst post of all time" - wish he'd elaborate on this. Or Stutters, and why. Only issue here is that he's not pushing either of these two, or even Superbia for that matter even though I contested there were town and scum motivations to claim RB.
I still haven't gotten to read Superbia's filter from Campus Mafia admittedly but Superbia contends SL took his play out of context.
prplhz should absolutely be the lynch today. However, sicklucker definitely needs some pressuring, and I almost want to say, possibly as a second wagon.
Also don't like this quote either, this doesn't make Stutters scummy at all as Stutters doesn't know his meta.
On May 07 2015 02:10 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 02:02 Stutters695 wrote:On May 07 2015 01:56 sicklucker wrote:On May 07 2015 01:53 Stutters695 wrote:On May 07 2015 01:36 sicklucker wrote:On May 07 2015 01:30 Stutters695 wrote:
Sorry guys, busy at work (catering a shit load of luncheons today). Where in the blue hell are you getting 75% from?
Homeboy might be scum, but I'm not getting how you reach those odds. 50% chance theres a veteran in the game. Mafia will always roleblock ff last night incase hes a veteran so they dont lose a kp. This is just standard mafia play and the correct play. Maybe I should lower it a bit because it is a newbie game but I know super 100% makes this play. 0-25% added because super might claim rb as mafia even if theres not a veteran because he has won games doing it before (meta) thats how I got 50-75% Do you remember what game he claimed RB as scum in? 75% is a strong estimate. That looks real bad for you (like almost have to lynch you d3 bad) if he flips town so I want to see where you're coming from. Hts just linked it. Its not me to say if you should lynch me if im wrong or not. But making mathematical mechanical game decisions is kind of my town play style and im right more then im wrong I'll check it out when I have more time, but if you're wrong you've contributed next to nothing and will have caused a mislynch based on probability rather than anything really mafia related. I'll check out your previous games tonight/tomorrow (no rush on that really since it wouldn't be applicable until d3 in this case), but surely you can see how bad that would look. Im offering you a really good lynch math does not lie! This preflip blame is hella scummy
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If prplhz does flip scum I think ritoky and Superbia should be revisited as both hard towned prplhz for mindmeld or something.
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Also I think y0su also needs revisiting. There are some scummy behaviours about his end.
I can see where he's scumreading sicklucker. But he's not pushing him.
He's saying Superbia is doing the most to confuse town though, and I can't tell if he's parroting me - would be nice to see him elaborate on his read on Superbia. And if he feels this way why wasn't he pushing Superbia?
I see he's questioning Shining before he TRs him but what confuses me is why y0su wasn't doing more to separate sicklucker and Superbia. He's separated them by association, that, but he hasn't done more (esp with Superbia) to see if Superbia could be scum or not.
The argument that y0su could be parroting also comes from the fact that he tells Superbia he's saying he's asking a trick question without thinking through why the question is or isn't a trick question (I at least fleshed out with Superbia where I had issues with it).
So those points make him look poor.
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I'll be back. More things to tie up at work...huzzah.
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On May 07 2015 23:08 Stutters695 wrote:
The biggest question imo is on Super. He's hard defended someone who hasn't done anything for 5 days basically.
It's really hard to say scum would hard defend scum for that long over such shitty reasons. And when he finally got off the defense it felt unnatural as fuck. Unless he was stalling for prpl to come back from outside information, why not just cut your losses?
I don't get it, feels too obvious almost.
Stutters - I just read Superbia's scumgame from Campus Mafia, the game that sicklucker contended it might make him mafia here.
Superbia actually looks very bad based on meta. He hard defended scumreads in that game. He defended scum Sentinel hard.
Rayn calls him on the hard defence D2/D3 or whatever.
If prplhz flips scum, this strengthens the case that Superbia is mafia.
Activity parallels are also similar. Sicklucker is actually right.
Scumperbia was VERY active in his scum RB game in Campus Mafia. He's VERY active here too.
Town Superbia in Guardians and Down Under 2 - nowhere near active or combative. He's very pointed statements and more combative (particularly the swearing) in this game. It's tonal but it's still another parallel on top of that.
I have to look into WHEN Scumperbia claimed being RBed in that game. Here he's claiming under zero pressure.
Also in that game he's pushing lynches from odd angles.
Other players in that game found him a very hard read - in Campus, he does a very good job of pointing scummy things in other town players. Unfortunately this complicates things.
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EBWOP - in Campus, he's pushing lynches from odd angles. His push on me to create a second wagon came out of nowhere.
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I have to look at that game harder. sicklucker, do you remember if superbia claimed under pressure?
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Another EBWOP -
Town Superbia in Guardians and Down Under 2 - nowhere near active or combative. He has very pointed statements and more combative (particularly the swearing) both in Campus and in this game. It's tonal but it's still another parallel on top of that.
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Also on the unnatural part.....
I tried to point him to Titanic 7, a game that we were all in.
That game, scum prplhz is very much similar to here. Doing jack all.
Town Superbia was passive until EoD/EoN in that game too (he was veteran). He's not anywhere near as tryhard as he is here.
I asked him how he didn't remember, he says prplhz he forgot was in that game. So I know what you mean by unnatural as fuck.
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I reiterate that prplhz needs to be the lynch today.
sicklucker and y0su need to be pressured secondary. The latter especially has to answer for not really having direction.
Superbia/ritoky - not today. Revisit Superbia especially if prplhz flips scum.
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EPT
