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On April 24 2015 13:58 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 13:38 Damdred wrote:I'm not sure what else you want me to explain, Art really isn't helping town Trfel at this point is being pretty wordy while showing the thread that her suspicions while leaving doubt in there for a backtack for example Though I'm not very good at meta reads, and I don't have much experience playing with yamato77. For someone who was sure of this read enough o dig up old games, much doubt is put into it and distance is put inbetween in case yamato flips town. Would you rather I be confident in my play to a degree far higher than my skill at mafia warrants? One surefire way to find town players is to look at my scumreads. Here's what I'm thinking, and yamato77 is a scumread of mine. But I see ways that this read could be wrong, so I'm asking and sharing my thoughts. I could keep holding my thoughts to myself, and analyzing him myself, or I could leave it open to the rest of the thread, where everyone is better than me and can analyze this better than I can. It's a matter of honest, not a matter of alignment. I mean, if you want me to push my reads to the end of time, I can do that. If you want me to throw the game for town, I can do that as well. Up to you.
So are you calling yamato scum?
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On April 24 2015 14:10 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 14:01 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 24 2015 13:58 Trfel wrote:On April 24 2015 13:38 Damdred wrote:I'm not sure what else you want me to explain, Art really isn't helping town Trfel at this point is being pretty wordy while showing the thread that her suspicions while leaving doubt in there for a backtack for example Though I'm not very good at meta reads, and I don't have much experience playing with yamato77. For someone who was sure of this read enough o dig up old games, much doubt is put into it and distance is put inbetween in case yamato flips town. Would you rather I be confident in my play to a degree far higher than my skill at mafia warrants? One surefire way to find town players is to look at my scumreads. Here's what I'm thinking, and yamato77 is a scumread of mine. But I see ways that this read could be wrong, so I'm asking and sharing my thoughts. I could keep holding my thoughts to myself, and analyzing him myself, or I could leave it open to the rest of the thread, where everyone is better than me and can analyze this better than I can. It's a matter of honest, not a matter of alignment. I mean, if you want me to push my reads to the end of time, I can do that. If you want me to throw the game for town, I can do that as well. Up to you. So are you calling yamato scum? I think that I have presented a lot of reasons that make him scum. However, I also see several things that I find unlikely for yamato77 to do. So, I'm hoping that people would comment. Based on what I said, do you think that yamato77 is scum?
I have him as null right now. I thought yesterday he looked a lot worse but since he came back I liked his posting. I'm not a huge fan of your case honestly. The first point where you attempt to show he's picking on irrelevant things---consider how many people picked on me at the beginning of the game for my reads. The most relevant section in there imo is where he completely misrepresents Artanis's posting by saying he was ONLY going to focus on the afk people that day so he could afk himself which I pointed out earlier, but you instead simply call it a continuation of the line of questioning when you don't look at what he's actually saying. Then right after that you're willing to give Artanis the benefit of the doubt where yamato called him out for not doing much but you aren't willing to do the same for yamato himself even though yamato is actually in thread and pursuing a line of questioning. After that you call him unfocused but he does seem to be pretty focused on Artanis to me, though I would agree he is not as willing to actually push the lynch as much as one would think.
I dunno, from that first section it just looks like you dove into yamato's filter with an idea already in your ahead 'I think I can make yamato look scummy if i take out these posts and focus on this'---you say you're concerned over bias in your posting but you don't even see what you're doing yourself here. The lack of confidence in your posting suggest that the above may not be true, but I have a horrible track record of reading newbies (which is essentially what you are to me at this point) and I often get fooled when people try to fake things like the lack of confidence expected when playing against people 'better than them' as you've said of yamato.
His behaviour right before and right after the lynch are sort of ok points but the gloating i see as completely the opposite---a towny trait more than anything. Why does scum waltz into the thread hogging attention and making fun of everyone else for being wrong? That's a surefire way to get everyone to scrutinize him (case and point) which is the last thing scum ever wants. I have also been guilty of the gloating multiple times as town (though meta so maybe not good example).
I dunno. It's tough to explain. You bring up some valid points but other more glaring ones that have been previously brought up seem missing. The lack of confidence and wishy-washiness of your whole case just rubs me in completely the wrong way, like you're setting yourself up to join whatever side becomes more popular if yamato should end up the main focus for today. The absolute biggest problem I have with you so far is the same as I had before; you cook up all this effort and it's all completely for naught. What is the POINT of your posting? We're past the point of 'generating discussion' at this point, we need to be finding scum and lynching them especially since we're behind, and meanwhile it's D2 and it's still impossible for you to take a stance? I don't buy it.
Would REALLY love for rsoul to comment on this at some point as well since she seems to be the main one defending you at every step of the way despite her saying she's going to take more of a backseat on that today.
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I truly don't understand this. I've dismantled your weak case on me and you haven't brought anything new since, and now you're adding to it a horrible preflip association read? Thanks for playing Palmar.
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On April 25 2015 04:37 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 03:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
I truly don't understand this. I've dismantled your weak case on me and you haven't brought anything new since, and now you're adding to it a horrible preflip association read? Thanks for playing Palmar. Actually if you bothered to read my case on Yamato you'd see nothing in there hinges on you being mafia. If I'm wrong about you the way Yamato treated his read/suspicion on you is still extremely weird. you shouldn't complain about me not playing when you don't even read things before complaining about them.
You actually have a point here.
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I still have an issue with how he treated EoD and beginning of day as scum---like that's super shit play and screaming TMI at everyone, especially considering the explanations and posts he made after the fact.
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I still don't see how I'm being a dick.
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Can't do much reading or heavy posting during the day on a weekend. Later this evening
I don't remember either trfel or yamato having donw very much and Palmar looking much better despite me being relaly aggravated with him
scum probably amongst yamato/trfel/one of damdred/breshke/mayube artanis because like you i never have a good handle on a game even when i try to be confident. Essentially probably misreading someone ive had as town all game but yeah, more i dunno for now
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On April 26 2015 02:43 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 02:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Can't do much reading or heavy posting during the day on a weekend. Later this evening
I don't remember either trfel or yamato having donw very much and Palmar looking much better despite me being relaly aggravated with him
scum probably amongst yamato/trfel/one of damdred/breshke/mayube artanis because like you i never have a good handle on a game even when i try to be confident. Essentially probably misreading someone ive had as town all game but yeah, more i dunno for now well if it stays this quiet we probably shouldn't lynch today either -_- that or i'll set the lynch and you lazy lemmings can follow me, what was the phrase? to the moon or bust and then the rocket ship explodes? lol dude you like literally have over half the game in that list of possible scum xP sad man, just sad
Yeah you clearly haven't played with me before
and aperture barely counts
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ill save you some time.
dont bother with meta
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Especially when you apply it incorrectly and presume that since Marv once told you that Yamato is absolutely terrible at scum, you figure he can't have 4 pages so far and have pushed some things.
Where did I do this? And no in my experience meta is shit terrible, and I am certainly not marv, one of very few people who can maybe attempt to use it correctly.
essentially the call is are we feeling lynchy or do we wait for yamato
And frankly by the time 48h rolls around im always feeling lynchy
I want to see a flip so I'll sheep rsoul
##unvote
##vote: yamato77
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On April 26 2015 03:20 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 12:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
They were real reads before I realized the premise was wrong. And why the fuck do I have to call you town?
Why are you fishing for townreads from me yamato? You're behaving so oddly, and it's not even your normal hyper-aggressive early game push that Im used to.
I just wanted to wreck scum with you for once. Just once. Apparently it was too much to ask. from the one who doesn't like to use meta xP
It's an observation, and I'm not calling him scum based on that. He's absolutely behaving oddly, even ignoring what I already know of him.
On April 26 2015 03:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 03:17 WaveofShadow wrote:Especially when you apply it incorrectly and presume that since Marv once told you that Yamato is absolutely terrible at scum, you figure he can't have 4 pages so far and have pushed some things.
Where did I do this? And no in my experience meta is shit terrible, and I am certainly not marv, one of very few people who can maybe attempt to use it correctly. essentially the call is are we feeling lynchy or do we wait for yamato And frankly by the time 48h rolls around im always feeling lynchy I want to see a flip so I'll sheep rsoul ##unvote
##vote: yamato77 Sorry, I didn't mean that you did this, I meant that I did that.
So that means you found him town earlier based on him pushing some stuff 'cause meta and now you're rethinking it?
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Remind me later rsoul to respond the you stuff in detakl
Re breshke I honestly haven't given him any thought since D1 cuz obvtown to me then
Maybe should reevaluate
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Est 2h till I an join conv sation
I'm up to lynch before that if you want but my activity drops as of Monday so even tho I want flippies I'm OK to waot
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Here, reading
I'll answer stuff as I'm going if you have anything specific atm
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On April 26 2015 03:44 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 12:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
I still have an issue with how he treated EoD and beginning of day as scum---like that's super shit play and screaming TMI at everyone, especially considering the explanations and posts he made after the fact. wave wave wave wave wave! can you explain what you meant here about yamato? when i first read it i thought you meant that made you more inclined to think he's scum, but on a reread it actually looks like this is why you weren't voting him back to the gloating bit about bh or what?
Yes pretty much. I've done this as town before and got called scum for it personally and I have no fucking clue why because it just seems like a really stupid thing to do for all the reasons I outlined. I mean that doesn't mean he's not scum I suppose, but it just seems like a really unlikely play from someone who is supposed to not be drawing attention to themselves.
On April 26 2015 03:47 rsoultin wrote:
also, lol >< i'm slow
town circle shrunk to just me and palmar...? what happened to breshke? he and artie were the only two you trusted EoD1, and you've talked about artie since, but not bresh
I wouldn't call it a 'town circle,' but as of now yeah you're probably my strongest townreads. Breshke dropped off a little since I realized I had forgotten about him entirely since D1 which could be my fault entirely but I mean he was calling me town way before anyone else was too, and I am unfortunately easily pocketed (which is why I also remain slightly wary of you but more in a paranoia-everybody-could-be-scum kinda way. I'm the same way with Holyflare for obvious reasons).
Artanis actually I don't think I've talked about at all either for a while---he's probably around the same level as Breshke if I think about it. Generally decent posts and I liked some of his points against Trfel but he hasn't gone out on a limb a great deal. Probably townier than Breshke atm actually. I think I have 4-5 pages left to reread though so all this can change. I only skimmed at the time and there was a lot of conversation going on.
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On April 26 2015 10:33 Damdred wrote:
Thoughts on
1) Art
2)Yamato
3) breahke
then general thoughts
Some early stuff is above, going to reread all the stuff you guys talked about more for some greater detail.
On April 26 2015 04:42 Damdred wrote:
Filter Assessment:
First page of breshkes filter is dedicated to basically talking about wave for the most part. There were two or three posts I really liked on this part, the first was asking about why wave liked one vote better than another and why did he pick breshke. I really liked the thought put into this I think. A bit of overexplaining on the joke vote though that I didn't notice.
Really playful though at the start of second page with me, and i like that. Its obvious i'm being forced to do things and i'm being an ass sorta especially towards my waifu, but plays along to get me involved in the thread. I really could see town motivation to do this. I also see a good bit of reasoning and thought for some of the town reads, and even the vote on BH isn't bad, its poe but he explains it decently well. Page two looks really towny to me honestly.
Page three is a bit hit and miss not much activity, I don't think its necessarily fair to say that bresh doesn't have any scum reads, obviously voting for yamato. And is using a sort of POE list early when not much information is in the thread.
I can see scum sorta doing this, but not scumbreshke. After reading the filter again with all of this in mind I still give him a town stamp of approval at this point.
See, the bolded. I can't speak for Breshke specifically but I've done this before as scum and it's pretty effective. Probably somewhat important to consider that before this point nobody was talking about him and everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY townread him. And I believe he came back shortly after this post of yours, Damdred.
On April 26 2015 05:07 Damdred wrote:
I'm really not sure Rsoultin.
Page two of Breshkes filter just looks really good, for example why would you get someone who is disinterested in the game involved in the game and give them content when they are a good chance for a mislynch at that point.
I just have a hard time seeing some of these thoughts froms cum breshke
Maybe explain this post to me, because I'm nto sure what you're referring to here.
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Ah nvm I'm dumb rsoul explained it directly after. I'm not so sure I agree with his 'bringing you back into the game' as a towntell though---self bias can create a lot of problems with reads, and just because he read you/dealt with you in a certain way or is right certainly doesn't make him town.
In other news I'm pretty sure you're town at this point (page 40) though I want to see how you deal with interactions from the other people who I know pop in. Not too hard to carry on a 1v1 conversation with obvtown.
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On April 26 2015 05:50 rsoultin wrote:yo, wave, that bragging bit you were saying was unlikely to come from a scum yama? xP he only started talking about it after i followed up on truffle's point that yamato's view of bh was contradictory (lazy as fuck -> he'll put forth the effort if given the chance), so...don't think that argument in favor of yamato's play holds water
i don't think his push on you early on was terrible? the one against artanis was pretty blah though -_- and having no alternative after pushing hard at you and artanis and even saying he didn't like damdy, then disappearing for 40 minutes before the lynch after saying we should give bh more time, just looks bad, frankly Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 10:29 yamato77 wrote:On April 24 2015 10:24 rsoultin wrote:
strategy talk aside i'm actually fine with how you handled the bh lynch, though...looks pretty natural at a second look
mmmmrrrrt i was supposed to be doing schoolwork >< you distractions xP while you're doing that, I'll be formulating updated reads also this was almost 48 hours ago lol >< and no, no new reads
Bolded: he didn't even really push me. Read what he did again.
I don't think him doing it just because you attacked him nullifies the point at all because it's the gloating I'm talking about specifically (namely, the point you first commented on) not the explanation. If you want to talk about the explanation after the fact , well especially if you take what Damdred was just saying about Breshke 'bringing him back into the game' at face value. Sometimes people either need a push, or something strikes them that they need to respond. Personally I'm one of those people that will foam at the mouth when called scum because it usually means I'm being misrepresented or it's for shit reasons---I can't speak for what made yamato post there specifically, but it's the gloating post I see as hard to come from scum specifically.
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I know I'm like octupleposting here so I'll try to put all my thoughts into this last one.
I still really hate how everybody's reads on Trfel all seem to be meta-based.
Damdred's, Rsouls, Artanis's (mostly). It's like nobody attempts to read the guy based on what he has done within this game, and that's what really bugs me about meta use. All it takes is one game for scum to pick up on what they know you know about them and they turn it against you, even IF you were right 100% of the time before that.
On April 26 2015 06:57 Breshke wrote:
I dont have much time ill have to leave soon and be gone for like an hour after deadline but rso your points seems to explain eachother.
I dont have any scunreads just a bunch of townreads then palamar drops a good casr on yama who is.not ome of my townreads so i dont see whats wrong with sheeping this. (what reasons do you even scumread yama for like couldnt you say your reasons are other peoples reasons aswell)
then to find the last scum I PoE and damdred and srt hadnt impressed me today when normally i feel like they are high impact players.
Ehhhhh I find this post hard to come from scum tbh. The others too. Except for this one...just rubs me the wrong way a little even if it's true.
On April 26 2015 07:14 Breshke wrote:
Im gonna stop derailing u and damdred cos yourshit seems productive and I cant do shit all on phone. Be round later unlrss we lynch
Can't explain that one exactly. It just looks like a post that is specifically tailored to make him look good? I dunno.
Probably wouldn't lynch breshke today though. Might want to see some real stuff when he comes back though. Like really real.
On April 26 2015 07:40 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 07:32 Breshke wrote:On April 26 2015 07:27 rsoultin wrote:On April 26 2015 05:50 rsoultin wrote:yo, wave, that bragging bit you were saying was unlikely to come from a scum yama? xP he only started talking about it after i followed up on truffle's point that yamato's view of bh was contradictory (lazy as fuck -> he'll put forth the effort if given the chance), so...don't think that argument in favor of yamato's play holds water i don't think his push on you early on was terrible? the one against artanis was pretty blah though -_- and having no alternative after pushing hard at you and artanis and even saying he didn't like damdy, then disappearing for 40 minutes before the lynch after saying we should give bh more time, just looks bad, frankly On April 24 2015 10:29 yamato77 wrote:On April 24 2015 10:24 rsoultin wrote:
strategy talk aside i'm actually fine with how you handled the bh lynch, though...looks pretty natural at a second look
mmmmrrrrt i was supposed to be doing schoolwork >< you distractions xP while you're doing that, I'll be formulating updated reads also this was almost 48 hours ago lol >< and no, no new reads that is mostly why i am scumreading yamato yes...do i need more reasons that that, really? No lol this is my point exactly. This is good enough to scumread yama. But if you think this is original and not just a sheep pf palmars thing your kidding yourself. i think it is quite amusing that you are trying to compare my alignment to yours by saying that i'm sheeping palmar, too (i never claimed not to be) when i actually have brought original scumreads/suspicions to the table (including on yamato) and you have not at all on anyone with the notable exception of saying that we were two of your non-townreads who townread each other...which means essentially zilch anyway you know who else i'm sheeping? truffle xP his second point is one of the points i agree with and i think makes yamato more likely scum the 40 minutes comment was entirely mine, and also that his "bragging" isn't alignment indicative when he was asked about his contradiction in reads on BHnow go do something worthwhile, like address the actual reason i'm scumreading you, rather than trying to compare us to one another. you're not me
I commented on this and I don't agree. At this point I'm not entirely sure why I'm defending him though because he really has done shit all aside from a few good posts and a couple things I think are hard to come from scum. Bleh. Still seems like best lynch overall.
Damdred v Artanis I think I need more time. Artanis is hard.
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BTW, it's shit like this that made me question Trfel about 100 times. It didn't take me that long to go through the posts I had missed/skimmed, so why does it take him hours to read like 3 pages when he says he's doing it?
If anyone's around I'm up to talk, though apparently my timing is shit compared to everyone else's. Gonna reread Trfel/Breshke/Damdred/Artanis in the meantime.
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EPT
