On April 07 2015 13:26 GlowingBear wrote: So, first page of the game and we already have an Obi VS Holyflare discussion. Sigh.
I know this has been talked about already but: GB what was the point of this? HF and Obi looked like they were joking and then you suddenly seemed really seriously upset about it. You went on to say something about "deja vu" but I dunno what you're referencing. This post seemed a bit out of place so... what's goin on here?
On April 07 2015 13:37 Damdred wrote: No seriously what's the point of you pushing on hf when he's trying to get information out of someone. So what the thread took a serious turn you just drew the conversation away from potential information into more joking.
I don't see why a town would want less information in thread at this point.
This is similarly weird because I didn't see how HF was trying to get information out of anyone or doing anything really but fucking around. And I don't see how GB turned the conversation back to joking around? In fact it was kinda the opposite, GB got serious in a way that felt a bit off tonally when HF was joking around with Obi.
On April 07 2015 13:37 Damdred wrote: No seriously what's the point of you pushing on hf when he's trying to get information out of someone. So what the thread took a serious turn you just drew the conversation away from potential information into more joking.
I don't see why a town would want less information in thread at this point.
Serious turn? They were joking at each other. How can the "wambulance" gather useful information? The most serious post here was about HF teasing obi. You disagree with this?
My post is the most serious. But you jumped in instead of seeing where it would go
Damdy, I made a joke. I didn't ask them to stop talking. You're nitpicking something that has no significance. You also avoided answering my question. Why?
which part? How obi hash left the thread after you interjected and called hf mafia somewhat? We lost information idk what question I'm avoiding
I asked what you think of what I said about HF teasing obi.
I don't understand what kind of information you were expecting from that discussion.
Also, if you think that HF was getting information out of obi and that obi took the chance to get out of the thread because I said HF is mafia, do you think obi is mafia?
This is a pretty good sequence IMO by GB. Damdred never answers this from what I can see in his filter, there's this half-answer in Damdred's post when he returns but it's not really a direct response. I think that makes Damdred a little suspicious because his initial assessment about what GB was doing was wrong and it looks like he was just taking the chance to pile on GB when he could.
Based on these posts GB is actually probably town and Damdred is slightly suspicious. I haven't gotten to the part where everyone decided GB is mafia but I already think it's wrong, so that could be fruitful.
On April 07 2015 13:26 GlowingBear wrote: So, first page of the game and we already have an Obi VS Holyflare discussion. Sigh.
more reads more knowledge more winning
why so sad?
Because deja vù By the way, I'm vigi again. Tell me your scumread so I can shoot him at night and shout at you all game long
This is actually what you like to do when you're mafia. Tease obi.
Explain this please, GB ^^
HF as Mafia would tease obi in order to guarantee a shitfest. He enters in an argument with obi, obi gets angry because HF is nitpicking him and gives up / start arguing with HF in an useless discussion, disorganising town.
Check Hearthstone Mafia for a precedent.
you don't think town!HF would just fuck with him for a bit at game start though? I see where you're coming from but it doesn't really seem to have had the intended effect
On April 07 2015 19:11 Vivax wrote: Damdred pretty hard on GB with his reasoning. Not sure if legit, he chose the worst possible explanation for GB complaining about HF vs Obi.
As if HF asking for an Obi wambulance was oh so informative lol.
the guy i scumread earlier had the same reaction as i did
On April 07 2015 19:11 Vivax wrote: Damdred pretty hard on GB with his reasoning. Not sure if legit, he chose the worst possible explanation for GB complaining about HF vs Obi.
As if HF asking for an Obi wambulance was oh so informative lol.
The point is not whether or not what they were doing was productive. The question is whether GB was doing anything useful at all.
Define useful in a wambulance and random gif setting.
Okay clearly you're being affected by a small head syndrome.
HF and Obi were having a shitfest. I'm not arguing that. When this happens there are a few options open to a player not involved. Some of them are useful, some are useless. Here's a few options GB could have taken.
GB could have:
Ignored it and walked away
Tried to put a stop to it
Tried to change the subject to something more entertaining or useful
Joined in on the fun
Idly complained about it without trying to stop it or change the subject
Tried to glean some information from it
You'll notice that he did actually take one of the options. The problem I have is that is by fare the worst option available. By his own admission he wasn't trying to stop them, so what was he trying to achieve? He wasn't being funny, he wasn't being sociable, he wasn't trying to bring up a new subject, he wasn't scumhunting or trying to poke people further.
Why did GB post?
This is not good. So GB didn't necessarily react the best way to one minor thing. So? He turns around and starts engaging Damdred on it in a way that I at least felt was really productive. Palmar incorrectly assesses that GB "wasn't scumhunting or trying to poke people further" and does so by ignoring the bulk of GB's actual posting at the time, focusing only on the admittedly-not-good first reaction to the HF-Obi thing.
On April 07 2015 20:39 Palmar wrote: His point being that we should lynch GB for that post. He may not have had the exact same take as me, but the conclusion is the same.
Like in broad strokes I was apathetic about the Obi/HF thing (although HF looked better in it than Obi) and I hated GB's interjection, and I liked that damdred didn't like it.
I really cba with this rsoultin. You know that if I'm mafia I'll be fairly easy to spot a little further down the line so all you're doing now is wasting my time.
Why is he so grumpy? Jeez this thread is down in the dumps. Y'all oughta grab a beer and chill or somethin. This game is fun, why so bothered already? Especially since rsoultin's questions were actually pretty on-point -- as noted Palmar's thing on GB is actually not very good and if it's really his best thing he has, rsoultin is right to be pressing him for more. I love her followup asking what didn't make the cut and I would have figured that Palmar would more readily play ball if he's gonna start out serious like this.
On April 07 2015 20:44 GlowingBear wrote: Palmar, being unfunny doesn't make me Mafia If you think I had the intention of stopping discussion, you basically assume that I was protecting someone. If so, I'm automatically Mafia with one of them. Thinking through a Mafia perspective, if I see two townies discussing, I won't interfere so they can tunnel each other.
So, you have to tell me who is my partner with them, or your argument simply doesn't hold water
I don't believe this is true.
My original assumption was that you were trying to stop them by complaining about it. You later clarified that you weren't. But let's assume I don't really think there is any mafia in the group of you three.
Town HF is arguing with Town Obi.
Town GB steps in and "look guys, this is shit. drop it".
I think this is a fair thing to do as town.
I really don't understand why you'd have to be protecting someone. Trying to stop shit to clear the way for more useful conversation is on the surface always a town move. Of course mafia knows this so it's really no big deal (hence why I'm looking at HOW you did what you did, not WHAT you did).
Like this post is full of shit and now I seriously want to lynch you and I don't think I'm nitpicking anymore. Trying to argue that you must be protecting one of them or my theory is shit is awful because it makes no logical sense.
I'm having trouble following this train of thought. Palmar basically says that what GB did could actually be a townie thing and then wants to lynch GB for saying something illogical. What happened to the early insistence from Palmar that he wanted to lynch mafia?
Now that I'm actually reading I'm starting not to like Palmar. I got it backwards earlier, he was actually the one being nitpicky and not really making sense / going places with GB. His initial assessment he makes about GB's early game play is all wrong and he's unnecessarily hostile toward rsoultin when she tries to talk to him about the game. I tend to think Palmar is just... above this when he's town. He's a pretty level-headed and fair-minded guy most of the time, and there's generally good intentions behind his failing to meet this standard (he gets hyper-tunneled on someone he thinks is mafia for instance). But the unnecessary antagonism and the grueling, pedantic arguing with GB just seems not him.
On April 07 2015 19:11 Vivax wrote: Damdred pretty hard on GB with his reasoning. Not sure if legit, he chose the worst possible explanation for GB complaining about HF vs Obi.
As if HF asking for an Obi wambulance was oh so informative lol.
the guy i scumread earlier had the same reaction as i did
Yup but Palmar was pretty convincing once I baited a better explanation out of him, the bulleted list thingy.
I thought it was bad. Lol It sounds good if you just take the one post GB made at first out of context, but when you keep reading you'll see GB engage Damdred pretty thoroughly (for the time) and soundly. It's easy to miss because Damdred drops it and never revisits it later but GB definitely ended up doing something with the early discussion.
On April 07 2015 13:26 GlowingBear wrote: So, first page of the game and we already have an Obi VS Holyflare discussion. Sigh.
I know this has been talked about already but: GB what was the point of this? HF and Obi looked like they were joking and then you suddenly seemed really seriously upset about it. You went on to say something about "deja vu" but I dunno what you're referencing. This post seemed a bit out of place so... what's goin on here?
On April 07 2015 13:37 Damdred wrote: No seriously what's the point of you pushing on hf when he's trying to get information out of someone. So what the thread took a serious turn you just drew the conversation away from potential information into more joking.
I don't see why a town would want less information in thread at this point.
This is similarly weird because I didn't see how HF was trying to get information out of anyone or doing anything really but fucking around. And I don't see how GB turned the conversation back to joking around? In fact it was kinda the opposite, GB got serious in a way that felt a bit off tonally when HF was joking around with Obi.
On April 07 2015 14:03 GlowingBear wrote:
On April 07 2015 13:55 Damdred wrote:
On April 07 2015 13:48 GlowingBear wrote:
On April 07 2015 13:44 Damdred wrote:
On April 07 2015 13:41 GlowingBear wrote:
On April 07 2015 13:37 Damdred wrote: No seriously what's the point of you pushing on hf when he's trying to get information out of someone. So what the thread took a serious turn you just drew the conversation away from potential information into more joking.
I don't see why a town would want less information in thread at this point.
Serious turn? They were joking at each other. How can the "wambulance" gather useful information? The most serious post here was about HF teasing obi. You disagree with this?
My post is the most serious. But you jumped in instead of seeing where it would go
Damdy, I made a joke. I didn't ask them to stop talking. You're nitpicking something that has no significance. You also avoided answering my question. Why?
which part? How obi hash left the thread after you interjected and called hf mafia somewhat? We lost information idk what question I'm avoiding
I asked what you think of what I said about HF teasing obi.
I don't understand what kind of information you were expecting from that discussion.
Also, if you think that HF was getting information out of obi and that obi took the chance to get out of the thread because I said HF is mafia, do you think obi is mafia?
This is a pretty good sequence IMO by GB. Damdred never answers this from what I can see in his filter, there's this half-answer in Damdred's post when he returns but it's not really a direct response. I think that makes Damdred a little suspicious because his initial assessment about what GB was doing was wrong and it looks like he was just taking the chance to pile on GB when he could.
Based on these posts GB is actually probably town and Damdred is slightly suspicious. I haven't gotten to the part where everyone decided GB is mafia but I already think it's wrong, so that could be fruitful.
I had nothing in mind when I posted that, I just thought it was a funny thing to point out. The déjà vu thing is exactly that: I always see them engaging that kind of argument.
So, after these considerations of yours, what are your updated reads?
You are probably town, Vivax looks alright, Palmar looks not so good, Damdred looks not so good. Das it mayne
On April 07 2015 13:26 GlowingBear wrote: So, first page of the game and we already have an Obi VS Holyflare discussion. Sigh.
I know this has been talked about already but: GB what was the point of this? HF and Obi looked like they were joking and then you suddenly seemed really seriously upset about it. You went on to say something about "deja vu" but I dunno what you're referencing. This post seemed a bit out of place so... what's goin on here?
On April 07 2015 13:37 Damdred wrote: No seriously what's the point of you pushing on hf when he's trying to get information out of someone. So what the thread took a serious turn you just drew the conversation away from potential information into more joking.
I don't see why a town would want less information in thread at this point.
This is similarly weird because I didn't see how HF was trying to get information out of anyone or doing anything really but fucking around. And I don't see how GB turned the conversation back to joking around? In fact it was kinda the opposite, GB got serious in a way that felt a bit off tonally when HF was joking around with Obi.
On April 07 2015 14:03 GlowingBear wrote:
On April 07 2015 13:55 Damdred wrote:
On April 07 2015 13:48 GlowingBear wrote:
On April 07 2015 13:44 Damdred wrote:
On April 07 2015 13:41 GlowingBear wrote:
On April 07 2015 13:37 Damdred wrote: No seriously what's the point of you pushing on hf when he's trying to get information out of someone. So what the thread took a serious turn you just drew the conversation away from potential information into more joking.
I don't see why a town would want less information in thread at this point.
Serious turn? They were joking at each other. How can the "wambulance" gather useful information? The most serious post here was about HF teasing obi. You disagree with this?
My post is the most serious. But you jumped in instead of seeing where it would go
Damdy, I made a joke. I didn't ask them to stop talking. You're nitpicking something that has no significance. You also avoided answering my question. Why?
which part? How obi hash left the thread after you interjected and called hf mafia somewhat? We lost information idk what question I'm avoiding
I asked what you think of what I said about HF teasing obi.
I don't understand what kind of information you were expecting from that discussion.
Also, if you think that HF was getting information out of obi and that obi took the chance to get out of the thread because I said HF is mafia, do you think obi is mafia?
This is a pretty good sequence IMO by GB. Damdred never answers this from what I can see in his filter, there's this half-answer in Damdred's post when he returns but it's not really a direct response. I think that makes Damdred a little suspicious because his initial assessment about what GB was doing was wrong and it looks like he was just taking the chance to pile on GB when he could.
Based on these posts GB is actually probably town and Damdred is slightly suspicious. I haven't gotten to the part where everyone decided GB is mafia but I already think it's wrong, so that could be fruitful.
I had nothing in mind when I posted that, I just thought it was a funny thing to point out. The déjà vu thing is exactly that: I always see them engaging that kind of argument.
So, after these considerations of yours, what are your updated reads?
You are probably town, Vivax looks alright, Palmar looks not so good, Damdred looks not so good. Das it mayne
Explain to me why Vivax looks alright now and why you scumread him before
Several times when I was reading through that GB-Damdred-Palmar sequence Vivax chimed in and said basically what I was thinking about the things I was reading as I read them. It obviously doesn't make him lock clear town but it's generally a good sign when people are reacting the same way you are to the game.
I scumread him before because I put all the names of people who hinted I was mafia without voting me into a hat and pulled his name out. Lol Not literally but that was kinda my thought process and it wasn't trying very hard. This is though.
On April 08 2015 13:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Rsoultin, yamato is probably not mafia.
lol he was supposed to be proving to me his awesome towniness this game
why is he probably not mafia?
Because he's actually playing the game.
His posts aren't jaw-droppingly excellent but he's talking about stuff.
rofl
i'm sorry but if we all had the same bar you apparently have for him none of us would be mafia xP what exactly is he talking about? i see a lot of sniping and little-to-no explanation
what specifically makes you think he's town?
In regards to a normal player I'd agree with you, but I've seen yamato's scumgame and the level of apathy he displayed was ridiculous, to the point where he didn't even bother commenting on anything at all and only came into the thread to lol at people and tell them he didn't have time to play.
Yamato has almost always been a low content guy iirc.
how apathetic? if you have a specific game in mind I can check out that'd be great, because he doesn't seem all that motivated here either so far but (1) i misread him on this exact point before lol and (2) you're saying it's worse than this so a specific example would be gr8 m8
On April 08 2015 13:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Rsoultin, yamato is probably not mafia.
lol he was supposed to be proving to me his awesome towniness this game
why is he probably not mafia?
Because he's actually playing the game.
His posts aren't jaw-droppingly excellent but he's talking about stuff.
rofl
i'm sorry but if we all had the same bar you apparently have for him none of us would be mafia xP what exactly is he talking about? i see a lot of sniping and little-to-no explanation
what specifically makes you think he's town?
In regards to a normal player I'd agree with you, but I've seen yamato's scumgame and the level of apathy he displayed was ridiculous, to the point where he didn't even bother commenting on anything at all and only came into the thread to lol at people and tell them he didn't have time to play.
Yamato has almost always been a low content guy iirc.
how apathetic? if you have a specific game in mind I can check out that'd be great, because he doesn't seem all that motivated here either so far but (1) i misread him on this exact point before lol and (2) you're saying it's worse than this so a specific example would be gr8 m8
Read showdown.
holy shit you ain't kiddin. rofl
i will endorse this read. yamato is typically a low-volume poster but the difference between showdown (last mafiaside game played) and student vi (last townside game played) is night and day. when he's town he's a high-content poster despite the low volume, when he's mafia... just go check showdown his filter is literally 2 pgs of nothing lmao. and this game's performance so far is much closer to student vi. i still want to see him doing something to be sure but i'm cool with early tr on him
On April 08 2015 14:10 Eden1892 wrote: also as an aside i like obi and i'm excited that this is finally gonna be the game where we roll town together and shit doesn't blow up lmao
There is a 0% chance of this happening and you know it.
I'm steeling myself for the inevitable wave of frustration.
On April 08 2015 23:06 Vivax wrote: I don't even care about the game outcome, you're annoying and frustrating and if you are willing to get shot or lynched after my flip I will throw the game.
I like to see myself as the swim instructor that trows kids in the pool shouting at them they should try to not drink too much water.
About where I am right now. Why does no one have anything to say about my stuff on Palmar? Am I just that wrong and bad about him? I felt like there was something there
Other notes: yamato's reads were pretty good and seem decidedly outside his mafia range. Koshi flipped the switch somewhere, I don't remember exact point but it happened. ritoky and Obi aren't completely outside their mafia range but they're both pretty townie so far to me. Damdred and HF fell off the map completely and if no one is down for lynching Palmar then I think one of them should be the lynch. Onegu and DR are still just nulls to me -- I don't mind lynching them, but if we're lynching among nulls then I'd rather get the people who I know can be more productive and clearly town than this.
On April 07 2015 19:11 Vivax wrote: Damdred pretty hard on GB with his reasoning. Not sure if legit, he chose the worst possible explanation for GB complaining about HF vs Obi.
As if HF asking for an Obi wambulance was oh so informative lol.
The point is not whether or not what they were doing was productive. The question is whether GB was doing anything useful at all.
Define useful in a wambulance and random gif setting.
Okay clearly you're being affected by a small head syndrome.
HF and Obi were having a shitfest. I'm not arguing that. When this happens there are a few options open to a player not involved. Some of them are useful, some are useless. Here's a few options GB could have taken.
GB could have:
Ignored it and walked away
Tried to put a stop to it
Tried to change the subject to something more entertaining or useful
Joined in on the fun
Idly complained about it without trying to stop it or change the subject
Tried to glean some information from it
You'll notice that he did actually take one of the options. The problem I have is that is by fare the worst option available. By his own admission he wasn't trying to stop them, so what was he trying to achieve? He wasn't being funny, he wasn't being sociable, he wasn't trying to bring up a new subject, he wasn't scumhunting or trying to poke people further.
Why did GB post?
This is not good. So GB didn't necessarily react the best way to one minor thing. So? He turns around and starts engaging Damdred on it in a way that I at least felt was really productive. Palmar incorrectly assesses that GB "wasn't scumhunting or trying to poke people further" and does so by ignoring the bulk of GB's actual posting at the time, focusing only on the admittedly-not-good first reaction to the HF-Obi thing.
On April 07 2015 20:39 Palmar wrote: His point being that we should lynch GB for that post. He may not have had the exact same take as me, but the conclusion is the same.
Like in broad strokes I was apathetic about the Obi/HF thing (although HF looked better in it than Obi) and I hated GB's interjection, and I liked that damdred didn't like it.
I really cba with this rsoultin. You know that if I'm mafia I'll be fairly easy to spot a little further down the line so all you're doing now is wasting my time.
Why is he so grumpy? Jeez this thread is down in the dumps. Y'all oughta grab a beer and chill or somethin. This game is fun, why so bothered already? Especially since rsoultin's questions were actually pretty on-point -- as noted Palmar's thing on GB is actually not very good and if it's really his best thing he has, rsoultin is right to be pressing him for more. I love her followup asking what didn't make the cut and I would have figured that Palmar would more readily play ball if he's gonna start out serious like this.
On April 07 2015 20:44 GlowingBear wrote: Palmar, being unfunny doesn't make me Mafia If you think I had the intention of stopping discussion, you basically assume that I was protecting someone. If so, I'm automatically Mafia with one of them. Thinking through a Mafia perspective, if I see two townies discussing, I won't interfere so they can tunnel each other.
So, you have to tell me who is my partner with them, or your argument simply doesn't hold water
I don't believe this is true.
My original assumption was that you were trying to stop them by complaining about it. You later clarified that you weren't. But let's assume I don't really think there is any mafia in the group of you three.
Town HF is arguing with Town Obi.
Town GB steps in and "look guys, this is shit. drop it".
I think this is a fair thing to do as town.
I really don't understand why you'd have to be protecting someone. Trying to stop shit to clear the way for more useful conversation is on the surface always a town move. Of course mafia knows this so it's really no big deal (hence why I'm looking at HOW you did what you did, not WHAT you did).
Like this post is full of shit and now I seriously want to lynch you and I don't think I'm nitpicking anymore. Trying to argue that you must be protecting one of them or my theory is shit is awful because it makes no logical sense.
I'm having trouble following this train of thought. Palmar basically says that what GB did could actually be a townie thing and then wants to lynch GB for saying something illogical. What happened to the early insistence from Palmar that he wanted to lynch mafia?
Now that I'm actually reading I'm starting not to like Palmar. I got it backwards earlier, he was actually the one being nitpicky and not really making sense / going places with GB. His initial assessment he makes about GB's early game play is all wrong and he's unnecessarily hostile toward rsoultin when she tries to talk to him about the game. I tend to think Palmar is just... above this when he's town. He's a pretty level-headed and fair-minded guy most of the time, and there's generally good intentions behind his failing to meet this standard (he gets hyper-tunneled on someone he thinks is mafia for instance). But the unnecessary antagonism and the grueling, pedantic arguing with GB just seems not him.
Also this case looks like something terrible. Especially the first point is some serious reaching on what I found a solid post from Palmar.
I don't see what was reaching about it? He makes a reasonable argument about one post where GB didn't use an in-game event to advance discussion, and then proceeds to just scumread GB and ignore the subsequent posts where GB questioned Damdred pretty soundly based off of the exact in-game event Palmar was talking about earlier. Literally Palmar's point is only good if you look at the one post GB makes and you ignore the other ones where GB does what he's supposed to do.
Meh Koshi I see what you're saying on GB, I don't want to talk about it anymore until GB comes back because I feel like if I keep defending my position and I'm wrong I end up covering for mafia and not making them work to be inno. I still believe in GB but I want to make him prove it himself since he suddenly disappeared.
EPT
