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I might be interpreting it differently based on what Onegu did in Hammertime, (or how he contexted it) because that was the first time I've seen it happen.
I associate scumclaiming with knowing that scum is positively claiming scum versus town claiming scum (or giving up), which I saw as martyring, and doing it as town.
So if my definition/understanding is off, I'll rephrase the question as follows:
1 As a veteran, why were you so sure that plotspot was positively claiming scum as opposed to a townie giving up?
Ultimately that is what I was trying to get at.
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Last post was directed at prplhz.
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On April 14 2015 10:12 rsoultin wrote: now the biggest thing against bourne apart from the tbd/plotspot thing which i find confusing more than anything is how long he's been afk, imo
so again, if i'm missing something, will someone please enlighten me?
Last thing he mentioned was "shit" post-lynch and I don't recall any RL excuses in the filter.
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Rasputin, reading your counterargument.
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Rasputin, double checked the filter. Nothing indicative for D2. Cites errands for 1h afk D1 and some gap from D1 starting at 2300. Nothing indicative he'd AFK D2 or later.
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On April 14 2015 10:33 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 10:26 prplhz wrote: saying that my third post didn't succeed in getting discussion going is silly as it's been discussed a lot this game i fail to see how this post is relevant xP the question was intention, not end result -flicks- trfel made a post as scum that "got discussion going" but that didn't make him town lol ><
I think Soren made a similar argument earlier about useful and useless discussion actually and saying that driving the latter was scumlike behaviour.
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Rasputin, I can see the second part of your counterargument from town or mafia perspective. Soren actually pinged him out on the second quote.
However, and this is a big however, the third quote you cite, if anything makes him town, that would have to be it. It's original thought and content from him.
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Breshke, what are your thoughts on Stutters's latest comments? I honestly was going to case him based on his voting plotspot, and then realising he was in the thread, decided it'd be more efficient directly asking him xD
On April 14 2015 10:26 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 09:59 Half the Sky wrote: Stutters, you still in thread? I wanted to ask you two key questions regarding your actions D1.
D1, you expressed that Breshke was mafia. You considered prplhz and plotspot for lynch. You pushed Breshke in two posts, and I know you were AFK a bit from the thread D1, but ultimately voted plotspot after a load of people had done so.
I have two questions for you.
1 As a veteran, why were you so sure that plotspot was scumclaiming and not martyring? I understand some vets are familiar with martyring happening and prp has brought it up himself. 2 I know someone else queried you on it but I'm not seeing the response in your filter - had your thoughts on Breshke changed since D1? And if you were sure of Breshke, why didn't you push him further D1? 1. I wasn't. D1 is a bitch and I hate it. Once it was obvious Bresh/Prpl weren't options, I wanted to see one of the newbies hang because if one of them didn't, we'd be in the same predicament d2 and had basically wasted d1. I've played enough games where people martyr/give up as scum once caught early that I really don't know what to think anymore. 2. I've learned pushing lynches that won't happen just distracts town. Especially on d1 when we can afford a mislynch. I'd rather have a mislynch on someone I can't read, but I think is scum than someone I don't think is scum because I split a wagon, when d1 is a crapshoot anyway. They have changed due to his n1 posts, but I still want to see more out of him to decide.
Considering you are the lead proponent of his lynch and (I could be wrong here?) you have yet to play with him, so...
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Damn, it is 3am here. I'll carry on as I can later today. Good night.
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Good afternoon Bourneq.
Last night I did a VCA (vote count analysis) starting with the people I felt looked most suspicious. You were one of the most likely though I still need to look into the "less" suspicious individuals, but looking through you, my biggest beef with you was not your activity, but that you appeared to jump reads. The 15 hour gap between you wanting dwarf and Ace (now Shining) gone and then thread sentiment swung plotspot's way made me assess whether you were going along with the crowd when you'd been able to keep your options open by casing him earlier.
I can see where you cased plotspot before and after ranking your scumreads, but Rasputin did point out ONE redeeming quote where you seemed to have original content and thought on prplhz.
If you can answer the questions that I (and I know a few others posed for you) I think it would help greatly. Also if you can clarify where you stand on prplhz given his activity/etc D2, that would also help greatly.
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I don't think Stutters should be considered scum after what I answered last night. We have a number of players here that are lurking and the fact that Stutters has picked up activity and is known to be a low-postcount high content player (there aren't too many of them on TL, but they exist) his activity would make sense in that context. There are also players D1 (e.g. VayneAuthority, kushm4sta) that are infamous for not wanting to do jack all first day, so it's not out of the question that this is his normal play.
He did clarify his meta points on prplhz (which I'll admit I did not get to last night before I had to go to bed). His explanations for pulling off Breshke/prplhz make sense and voting plotspot makes sense when he cannot distinguish between scum claiming scum and townies giving up. He said he's seen it "so many times" and I checked the database - he does have an extensive amount of experience. Finally what appears to be his most redeeming quality is his conviction on prplhz.
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EBWOP - English fail. First sentence should read:
I don't think Stutters should be considered scum after what I asked last night.
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Bourneq, below is my case on you. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=64#1274
On April 14 2015 09:19 Half the Sky wrote: Following what I just posted on Bourneq I need to know why
1 He didn't name his two scumreads when prompted by Stutters 2 What made plotspot the most likely scum when 15 hours before TBD was the most likely scum and he was AFK that time. 3 Why push a policy lynch over any of his scum lynches.
1 and 2 being the more of the important questions IMO.
Those are the questions I was referring to.
I'm out the next two hours for meetings, but will be back.
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Breshke, I'll be honest, considering the two posts you just quoted, I can actually logically imply why Stutters posted what he did in the second quote based on his observation and opinion of Tube's post, but if you're still not clear, maybe asking for clarification might help.
My issue personally with Trfel's post is that D2 is a bit too premature to conclude the entire scumteam is inactive. Now I don't think he's PoEed everyone else yet, from what I recall, I believe it's a result of whoever he's rated the lowest in his latest page of analysis.
It is possible and it has certainly happened, but given the nature of scumteams on TL on average, it is unlikely. It IS likely there's one lurker, possibly two on a three-person scumteam, but all three being inactive would be extremely rare.
I also know that from talking with Kitaman when we have cohosted the last newbie game, inactivity amongst newbies is fairly common regardless of alignment, so (not sure if you were in thread) exercise extreme caution before voting someone down solely for inactivity, especially a newbie in a newbie game. Like I said before, I feel that blue(s) should be the ones investigating that throughout the game and resolving only lategame (D4 or later IMO).
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On April 14 2015 21:48 Bourneq wrote: So to answer "2 Was queried multiple times on the read switches from plotspot to TBD to Ace (who would be policy) to plotspot. Gives an answer to prplhz saying that TBD was most likely scum. "
I am not sure what you meant by "read switches". Early on in the day I was getting bad vibes from tbd who was acting pretty suspicious to me. But it was early on in the day so I was going to give him time to redeem himself. He did not do much of anything for the rest of the day while plotspot was making a very bad case for himself and I thought that my reads on him were stronger than thoose I had on tbd. Somewhere in the middle of d1 I am asked who I would vote on if I had to vote that very second. I answered Ace because I did not feel enough information had surfaced on anybody so a policy lynch would be in good order.
Bourneq to clarify this -
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Pfffff tablet fail. Ignore that last post.
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On April 15 2015 00:04 rsoultin wrote: htssssss
lol >< very preachy and sweet but if you haven't noticed we've got 3-4 lurkers, so unless you have someone scummy you'd rather "vote down"?
also he directly said it wasn't for inactivity so...sermon unnecessary
The plan on my end was looking into the concerns on prplhz and sorting out Bourneq's reasoning for doing what he did.
ATM I'm filter diving prplhz.
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On April 15 2015 00:26 rsoultin wrote: lolol ><
tempted to jump up and down, put on a clown nose and stand on my head if it'll get you to engage with me hts xP
and that would look hella strange cause i can't stand on my head :/
you've cased...tube, onegu(trfel), bourne and the 1 of 3 is making me go ;o; about not seeing a third lol who i'm assuming is stutters. i kinda agree with (my bro i think it was?) that some of those cases look stretched, but that's neither here nor there at the moment. who do you actually want to lynch?
If I had to lynch now it'd be Onegu/Trfel.
Bourneq I didn't like. Your last quote on him as I said last night gave me pause that he could be newb town over newb scum, so I followed up.
Read up on Tube and went back to his original read on me. I know from Newbie LX he is susceptible to tunnelling. A town Tube could be just doing that to me.
My lynch pool is between Onegu/Trfel, and Bourneq, though the latest things on prp make me want to doublecheck honestly. The quote from Trfel when I re-read from last night also made my eyes pop (and not in a good way) because I didn't get that prplhz was forceful at all in his reads.
Stutters I think its fine.
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Rasputin, so you can understand me a bit better, this is the quote I take issue with:
On April 14 2015 12:53 Trfel wrote: I'm pretty confident that prplhz is town here. I've read Stutters695's arguments (or at least, the posts that I believe he is referring to) and I don't find them to be all that convincing.
He's being forceful, active, and his reads have generally been good. I don't normally see all three of these traits at once from a town prplhz, so I doubt even more that he would play like this as mafia.
I can demonstrate this if necessary, but at this time I don't think that it is necessary. And prplhz can speak for himself.
I'm doublechecking 1) how forceful he was and 2) the bases for his reads.
When you three voted me D2, you I know believed your case against me, like your tone felt genuine, but I recall prplhz being like "I can roll with that" or something similar when he followed with his vote, so I'm backtracking to see how he progressed on other people.
The other thing that doesn't add up for me is that he was hard defending Dwarf but openly telling him to be more useful. I'm sure I recall that somewhere. That just felt strange to me.
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