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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I associate scumclaiming with knowing that scum is positively claiming scum versus town claiming scum (or giving up), which I saw as martyring, and doing it as town. So if my definition/understanding is off, I'll rephrase the question as follows: 1 As a veteran, why were you so sure that plotspot was positively claiming scum as opposed to a townie giving up? Ultimately that is what I was trying to get at. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 14 2015 10:12 rsoultin wrote: now the biggest thing against bourne apart from the tbd/plotspot thing which i find confusing more than anything is how long he's been afk, imo so again, if i'm missing something, will someone please enlighten me? Last thing he mentioned was "shit" post-lynch and I don't recall any RL excuses in the filter. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 14 2015 10:33 rsoultin wrote: i fail to see how this post is relevant xP the question was intention, not end result -flicks- trfel made a post as scum that "got discussion going" but that didn't make him town lol >< I think Soren made a similar argument earlier about useful and useless discussion actually and saying that driving the latter was scumlike behaviour. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 14 2015 10:38 Trfel wrote: I also find it ironic, since Soren333 himself was one of the main people to respond to prplhz's opening, and he apparently called it useless discussion? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=15#284 Not making this up. Anyhow, back on topic. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
However, and this is a big however, the third quote you cite, if anything makes him town, that would have to be it. It's original thought and content from him. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 14 2015 10:26 Stutters695 wrote: 1. I wasn't. D1 is a bitch and I hate it. Once it was obvious Bresh/Prpl weren't options, I wanted to see one of the newbies hang because if one of them didn't, we'd be in the same predicament d2 and had basically wasted d1. I've played enough games where people martyr/give up as scum once caught early that I really don't know what to think anymore. 2. I've learned pushing lynches that won't happen just distracts town. Especially on d1 when we can afford a mislynch. I'd rather have a mislynch on someone I can't read, but I think is scum than someone I don't think is scum because I split a wagon, when d1 is a crapshoot anyway. They have changed due to his n1 posts, but I still want to see more out of him to decide. Considering you are the lead proponent of his lynch and (I could be wrong here?) you have yet to play with him, so... | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Last night I did a VCA (vote count analysis) starting with the people I felt looked most suspicious. You were one of the most likely though I still need to look into the "less" suspicious individuals, but looking through you, my biggest beef with you was not your activity, but that you appeared to jump reads. The 15 hour gap between you wanting dwarf and Ace (now Shining) gone and then thread sentiment swung plotspot's way made me assess whether you were going along with the crowd when you'd been able to keep your options open by casing him earlier. I can see where you cased plotspot before and after ranking your scumreads, but Rasputin did point out ONE redeeming quote where you seemed to have original content and thought on prplhz. If you can answer the questions that I (and I know a few others posed for you) I think it would help greatly. Also if you can clarify where you stand on prplhz given his activity/etc D2, that would also help greatly. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
He did clarify his meta points on prplhz (which I'll admit I did not get to last night before I had to go to bed). His explanations for pulling off Breshke/prplhz make sense and voting plotspot makes sense when he cannot distinguish between scum claiming scum and townies giving up. He said he's seen it "so many times" and I checked the database - he does have an extensive amount of experience. Finally what appears to be his most redeeming quality is his conviction on prplhz. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I don't think Stutters should be considered scum after what I asked last night. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480171-newbie-student-mafia-vii?page=64#1274 On April 14 2015 09:19 Half the Sky wrote: Following what I just posted on Bourneq I need to know why 1 He didn't name his two scumreads when prompted by Stutters 2 What made plotspot the most likely scum when 15 hours before TBD was the most likely scum and he was AFK that time. 3 Why push a policy lynch over any of his scum lynches. 1 and 2 being the more of the important questions IMO. Those are the questions I was referring to. I'm out the next two hours for meetings, but will be back. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
My issue personally with Trfel's post is that D2 is a bit too premature to conclude the entire scumteam is inactive. Now I don't think he's PoEed everyone else yet, from what I recall, I believe it's a result of whoever he's rated the lowest in his latest page of analysis. It is possible and it has certainly happened, but given the nature of scumteams on TL on average, it is unlikely. It IS likely there's one lurker, possibly two on a three-person scumteam, but all three being inactive would be extremely rare. I also know that from talking with Kitaman when we have cohosted the last newbie game, inactivity amongst newbies is fairly common regardless of alignment, so (not sure if you were in thread) exercise extreme caution before voting someone down solely for inactivity, especially a newbie in a newbie game. Like I said before, I feel that blue(s) should be the ones investigating that throughout the game and resolving only lategame (D4 or later IMO). | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 14 2015 21:48 Bourneq wrote: So to answer "2 Was queried multiple times on the read switches from plotspot to TBD to Ace (who would be policy) to plotspot. Gives an answer to prplhz saying that TBD was most likely scum. " I am not sure what you meant by "read switches". Early on in the day I was getting bad vibes from tbd who was acting pretty suspicious to me. But it was early on in the day so I was going to give him time to redeem himself. He did not do much of anything for the rest of the day while plotspot was making a very bad case for himself and I thought that my reads on him were stronger than thoose I had on tbd. Somewhere in the middle of d1 I am asked who I would vote on if I had to vote that very second. I answered Ace because I did not feel enough information had surfaced on anybody so a policy lynch would be in good order. Bourneq to clarify this - | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 15 2015 00:04 rsoultin wrote: htssssss lol >< very preachy and sweet but if you haven't noticed we've got 3-4 lurkers, so unless you have someone scummy you'd rather "vote down"? also he directly said it wasn't for inactivity so...sermon unnecessary The plan on my end was looking into the concerns on prplhz and sorting out Bourneq's reasoning for doing what he did. ATM I'm filter diving prplhz. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 15 2015 00:26 rsoultin wrote: lolol >< tempted to jump up and down, put on a clown nose and stand on my head if it'll get you to engage with me hts xP and that would look hella strange cause i can't stand on my head :/ you've cased...tube, onegu(trfel), bourne and the 1 of 3 is making me go ;o; about not seeing a third lol who i'm assuming is stutters. i kinda agree with (my bro i think it was?) that some of those cases look stretched, but that's neither here nor there at the moment. who do you actually want to lynch? If I had to lynch now it'd be Onegu/Trfel. Bourneq I didn't like. Your last quote on him as I said last night gave me pause that he could be newb town over newb scum, so I followed up. Read up on Tube and went back to his original read on me. I know from Newbie LX he is susceptible to tunnelling. A town Tube could be just doing that to me. My lynch pool is between Onegu/Trfel, and Bourneq, though the latest things on prp make me want to doublecheck honestly. The quote from Trfel when I re-read from last night also made my eyes pop (and not in a good way) because I didn't get that prplhz was forceful at all in his reads. Stutters I think its fine. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On April 14 2015 12:53 Trfel wrote: I'm pretty confident that prplhz is town here. I've read Stutters695's arguments (or at least, the posts that I believe he is referring to) and I don't find them to be all that convincing. He's being forceful, active, and his reads have generally been good. I don't normally see all three of these traits at once from a town prplhz, so I doubt even more that he would play like this as mafia. I can demonstrate this if necessary, but at this time I don't think that it is necessary. And prplhz can speak for himself. I'm doublechecking 1) how forceful he was and 2) the bases for his reads. When you three voted me D2, you I know believed your case against me, like your tone felt genuine, but I recall prplhz being like "I can roll with that" or something similar when he followed with his vote, so I'm backtracking to see how he progressed on other people. The other thing that doesn't add up for me is that he was hard defending Dwarf but openly telling him to be more useful. I'm sure I recall that somewhere. That just felt strange to me. | ||
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