• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:23
CEST 14:23
KST 21:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202516Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder2EWC 2025 - Replay Pack2Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced28BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Serral wins EWC 2025 Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Shield Battery Server New Patch BW General Discussion [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 758 users

TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 04:44 GMT
#5778
I mean if any of the vigi's have a shot left or if SL has an orb. if killing me and having me flip VT like I am allows for more clarity for town, I am all for it. I can't promise this late in the game my reads will be good. Especially since they seem to already be very different from a lot of "town".
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 04:53 GMT
#5783
more people should answer this

On March 24 2015 09:34 ritoky wrote:
so i just read about this orb thing in the op. SL instantly claimed having the orb, what do people make of that? more likely town, more likely mafia, completely null? why?

“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 05:05 GMT
#5788
this is kinda frustrating. am just trying to get people to interact with a very simple question so I can get reads.

@trfel then what do you think of breshke's answer to it if it is so obvious?
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 05:11 GMT
#5793
On March 24 2015 14:08 Eden1892 wrote:
why aren't you engaging breshke about this instead of trfel? breshke's the one who's actually a question mark relatively speaking


are you just trying to throw scum on me?

On March 24 2015 09:47 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2015 09:40 Breshke wrote:
On March 24 2015 09:37 ritoky wrote:
On March 24 2015 09:36 Breshke wrote:
On March 24 2015 09:34 ritoky wrote:
so i just read about this orb thing in the op. SL instantly claimed having the orb, what do people make of that? more likely town, more likely mafia, completely null? why?


Most lukely bullshutting. Dont think its allighnment indicitive for him though


so you don't believe he has it? what motivation do you think he has for claiming it while not having it? do you have reason to believe he doesn't?


Because he recently talked about how he likes the wifom play. I also believe town SL with the orb would go for gliry and not try pull a roleblock.

Motivation for town SL without orb is to try pull a Rb or nk which is very unlikely.

Motivation for mafia Sl is to make it look like he is tryong to do a play which he says he likes as town.

I can see it either way


pretty sure this dude is town pile for now. this is an incredibly reasonable read.


already did.

breshke is more town than you are imo, by quite a bit.

my town is me + artanis + breshke + all the role people. is that auto?
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 05:14 GMT
#5796
On March 24 2015 14:10 Eden1892 wrote:
not trying to be antagonistic here but quite honestly this doesn't look like it's going anywhere

I'm really sympathetic to the fact that you replaced some 285 pages in but I'm also gonna be a bit of a stick in the mud about your questions if I don't like them cuz I think you're mafia

so please orient your efforts toward something more productive TIA


like no offense, but you're being a giant dick in general. you're shitting on every question I am trying to raise. it really demotivates me from trying when I sub in late being a decent guy, get VT, try to start getting reads, and 1 guy is just sitting there shitting on you at every turn.

if you're town you need to get yourself to a place where you understand I am VT. if not, keep doing what you're doing cuz it is making me want to try less and less.

pretty much your reaction to the exact same situation in the last game vs this game makes it obvious to me you are a role or mafia. I don't know which, but there's not many roles left to be claimed?
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 05:33 GMT
#5814
On March 24 2015 14:19 Eden1892 wrote:
ritoky, here's what i want you to understand about your slot right now, and why i'm frustrated with it and clueless as to how i'm supposed to read you based only on your actions.

your slot:
- claimed blue under no pressure from the thread
- hardclaimed tracker to its top scumread at the time
- got unreasonably pissed at people who suspected it, ever
- didn't try especially hard, relative to the other players in the game, to solve the game

and apparently now we learn the claim was definitely fake too. and you claimed vt in a really scummy way. and even though you're cool tr'ing basically everyone else in the town circle, you're somehow deciding it's a good idea to throw garbage at the guy who's done by far the most this game to actually organize that circle

like how the fuck am i supposed to think you're town from this? help me help you


- rayn claims as VT to push someone he has a 95+% scum read on sometimes. I think it is stupid and as mafia I got him ML'd for it once, but he does it because he is into big plays like that for whatever reason. was he the one who did it in XXX with the fake cc on his teammate day 1? I guess he is capable as both alignments if that was him.

- rayn is an asshole

- he was tryharding like mad as mafia in the other game, I would guess that has something to do with his effort level here?

those are the best answers to those points I can give you at this point.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 05:36 GMT
#5816
On March 24 2015 14:17 Trfel wrote:
Ritoky, discussing sicklucker's recent activities has little purpose, and there is good reason not to.

I would rather you analyzed LightningStrike's list post, and/or people's responses to it. That is more concrete, more useful, and has no downside.


I could, but I would lack context to analyze those. he made those reads at a point in the game that I have literal 0 awareness of or know anything about. do the reads suck? yes they are incredibly vague and weak, but LS does that. nothing he posts really ever makes sense to me.

I am trying to interact with things that have happened since I entered the game to get my reads.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 05:37 GMT
#5817
On March 24 2015 14:36 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2015 14:33 ritoky wrote:
On March 24 2015 14:19 Eden1892 wrote:
ritoky, here's what i want you to understand about your slot right now, and why i'm frustrated with it and clueless as to how i'm supposed to read you based only on your actions.

your slot:
- claimed blue under no pressure from the thread
- hardclaimed tracker to its top scumread at the time
- got unreasonably pissed at people who suspected it, ever
- didn't try especially hard, relative to the other players in the game, to solve the game

and apparently now we learn the claim was definitely fake too. and you claimed vt in a really scummy way. and even though you're cool tr'ing basically everyone else in the town circle, you're somehow deciding it's a good idea to throw garbage at the guy who's done by far the most this game to actually organize that circle

like how the fuck am i supposed to think you're town from this? help me help you


- rayn claims as VT to push someone he has a 95+% scum read on sometimes. I think it is stupid and as mafia I got him ML'd for it once, but he does it because he is into big plays like that for whatever reason. was he the one who did it in XXX with the fake cc on his teammate day 1? I guess he is capable as both alignments if that was him.

- rayn is an asshole

- he was tryharding like mad as mafia in the other game, I would guess that has something to do with his effort level here?

those are the best answers to those points I can give you at this point.

Rayn is not asshole

He just has a different strategy


dunno, I have only had an unpleasant experience on TL mafia with 2 players, and rayn is one of them.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 06:17 GMT
#5833
@eden if you're town, you should lynch the person you think is most mafia. if that is my slot, then you're wrong, but people can be wrong. i am a sub and that sucks because of how the person before me played, but don't give me slack for it. just try to judge my play, make a read, and if i am still the most scum then try to lynch me.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 19:23 GMT
#5987
can someone discuss the specifics of onegu's mason claim with me? or tell me which page it is on?

did he make it under pressure from votes? was everyone okay with him not outing his partner? who wasn't? why? etc.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 19:25 GMT
#5988
On March 25 2015 03:06 Fecalfeast wrote:
If you guys are serious I can do filter diving or whatever and actually play.

How is me making a case a scumtell, though?


were you one of the first 2 people to push on the person you made a case on? (i think it was LS)
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 19:38 GMT
#5997
On March 25 2015 04:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Ritoky, Onegu's claim should resolve itself by nighttime. He said he'll claim his partner at EoN.


i just glanced at his filter though, and hasn't he been fake claiming partners all game? what makes you think it will actually resolve @ EoN.

he also sure as fuck mentions he is a mason a lot, and not much else. there's a psychological thingy, forget the name, that says people who have to constantly mention something or validate themselves usually are deficient in that area. i won't be surprised if he claims VT @ EoN.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 19:40 GMT
#6000
On March 25 2015 04:30 Vivax wrote:
But maybe I'm biased about Damdred, I'm still somewhat paranoid on him.


i think you're justified in your paranoia. he pushed some meta about rayn to try and insta-plynch me when i subbed in. which if i was another person would have been meh. but the fact that he has a 99% accuracy read on me and still pushed it is absolutely bizarre to me.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 19:50 GMT
#6005
On March 25 2015 04:47 Fecalfeast wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2015 04:41 Vivax wrote:
On March 25 2015 04:39 rsoultin wrote:
On March 25 2015 04:36 Vivax wrote:
On March 25 2015 04:33 rsoultin wrote:
like i think i buy the Artanis is just killing it as scum theory over FF making a case on a townie and pushing that case lol if it was just the LS case i could see it, but...


FF making a case on a townie? What are you talking about?


me xP


Tbh people should be scumreading him just for the fact he makes cases.
But I didn't mention that. Yet. Anyway FF is mafia, so is Artanis. If I'm alive tomorrow I'll keep trying to hammer this into your heads.

People should be scumreading me for the fact that i make cases?

What?


It's not a terrible read. When you make cases and start going ham on people as town usually you're one of the first 2 or 3 on board, as opposed to being later on board as mafia. It's more of a timing thing than the actual case thing imo, hence why I asked you if you were one of the first 2 people to really start pushing on LS.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 19:52 GMT
#6006
On March 25 2015 04:44 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2015 04:40 ritoky wrote:
On March 25 2015 04:30 Vivax wrote:
But maybe I'm biased about Damdred, I'm still somewhat paranoid on him.


i think you're justified in your paranoia. he pushed some meta about rayn to try and insta-plynch me when i subbed in. which if i was another person would have been meh. but the fact that he has a 99% accuracy read on me and still pushed it is absolutely bizarre to me.


considering how many of us are actually aware of the game he's talking about...

eh, nvm lol i wasn't gonna talk. evil people being too interesting xP


if you're 4realz JK, which i don't have any reason to believe you're not. could you start playing like i did in mspaint instead of "letting other's solve the game for you"?
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 19:58 GMT
#6008
On March 25 2015 04:56 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2015 04:52 ritoky wrote:
On March 25 2015 04:44 rsoultin wrote:
On March 25 2015 04:40 ritoky wrote:
On March 25 2015 04:30 Vivax wrote:
But maybe I'm biased about Damdred, I'm still somewhat paranoid on him.


i think you're justified in your paranoia. he pushed some meta about rayn to try and insta-plynch me when i subbed in. which if i was another person would have been meh. but the fact that he has a 99% accuracy read on me and still pushed it is absolutely bizarre to me.


considering how many of us are actually aware of the game he's talking about...

eh, nvm lol i wasn't gonna talk. evil people being too interesting xP


if you're 4realz JK, which i don't have any reason to believe you're not. could you start playing like i did in mspaint instead of "letting other's solve the game for you"?


lol you're cute xP


[image loading]

i'm married
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 20:51 GMT
#6045
On March 25 2015 05:39 Damdred wrote:
Also just a observation if I get lynched soon tonight is interesting. Like all of a sudden Palmar says why I'm not up for lynch and stopping it there, ritoky says he doesn't like me but gives a weak read based on conjecture ans besides that and shows nothing from my small filter why he hates me. He has a great way to read me but decides not to.

And now vivax says damdred paranoia. Its interesting to me


you're not utilizing your read on me either.

hello pot, i am kettle.

i wrote down immediately in my notes: mason or mafia next to you. i just don't think the line of play you're taking in regards to me is something you would do if you were playing from an individual pov, it seems more like an approach you would take if you were collaborating. i feel like if you were solo you would be more confident in your read on me versus meta stuff on rayn.

my read on you usually takes about 36 hours to really get it down though. so in about 24 hours ask me damdred's alignment and i will give it to you with 100% accuracy.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 21:24 GMT
#6095
On March 25 2015 06:20 Damdred wrote:
Who is against a ritoky/Rayn lynch and for what reason


Are you mason with onegu?

Your filter has 0 interaction with him whatsoever. In fact you seem to go out of your way to ignore him.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 21:52 GMT
#6117
i am super confused by what superbia is talking about. can someone try to make sense of this for me, or tell me if i am wrong.

he says the play he would make as mafia if 2 vigis were real and claimed, the play would be shoot 1 vigi @ night to setup the ML on the other; thus since it didn't happen that way 1 of the vigis is mafia? is that correct?

in a game with this many claims out in the open, why do you think the mafia would place vigi as such a high priority? especially when 1 has claimed to use their shot.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
ritoky
Profile Joined March 2011
United States6851 Posts
March 24 2015 22:04 GMT
#6131
On March 25 2015 06:58 Superbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2015 06:52 ritoky wrote:
i am super confused by what superbia is talking about. can someone try to make sense of this for me, or tell me if i am wrong.

he says the play he would make as mafia if 2 vigis were real and claimed, the play would be shoot 1 vigi @ night to setup the ML on the other; thus since it didn't happen that way 1 of the vigis is mafia? is that correct?

in a game with this many claims out in the open, why do you think the mafia would place vigi as such a high priority? especially when 1 has claimed to use their shot.


There were mason claims and a fake Tracker in rayn (iirc). I'm just speculating because I believe more information can be extracted from the NKs with 2 vigi claims.

Let's eliminate the world in which both vigis are real, and slam is town:
- Scum never RBs Vivax because:
- You show 4 KP in the night (withholding a possible mafia vig shot), 4 town die, town suspects vigis due to possibility of mafia vig. Mafia probably wins game.

Hence, if you believe both vigis, Slam is probably always mafia.


I don't know where slam comes into all of this, that is probably a context thing....but I kinda understand now.

I just don't think you put any value in the tinfoil/wifom bomb approach that mafia could take from the same situation. Assume mafia has a RB and the RB is alive and in a position to stay alive for a while to come. The longer you leave both vigis in the game with the 1 with a shot being perpetually RB'd, the more apt town is to tinfoil/wifom bomb themselves.
“When interest is at variance with conscience, any distinction to make them friends will serve the hollow-hearted.” -Henry Home
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #99
ByuN vs KrystianerLIVE!
CranKy Ducklings195
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 474
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 4413
Bisu 2083
Shuttle 1785
Flash 1426
Jaedong 735
EffOrt 489
Mini 447
Stork 409
Zeus 403
Larva 397
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 368
Soma 276
Hyun 200
Snow 136
Killer 133
Soulkey 116
ZerO 111
ToSsGirL 110
Mind 103
Dewaltoss 82
Rush 66
Sharp 60
Movie 54
PianO 48
Backho 46
sSak 43
Aegong 42
Noble 34
Sea.KH 33
JYJ29
sorry 28
soO 26
Free 25
scan(afreeca) 23
Icarus 19
JulyZerg 19
Shinee 18
Sacsri 15
IntoTheRainbow 8
ivOry 5
Terrorterran 4
Dota 2
Gorgc2312
qojqva748
XcaliburYe189
Counter-Strike
fl0m1922
olofmeister1826
x6flipin569
oskar137
sgares123
Super Smash Bros
amsayoshi53
Other Games
singsing2028
B2W.Neo802
XaKoH 475
DeMusliM385
crisheroes312
Fuzer 288
Hui .200
Lowko164
ZerO(Twitch)16
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta31
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1947
• WagamamaTV308
League of Legends
• Nemesis3349
• Jankos852
Upcoming Events
WardiTV European League
3h 37m
PiGosaur Monday
11h 37m
OSC
1d
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 3h
The PondCast
1d 21h
Online Event
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Online Event
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
Yuqilin POB S2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.