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Mocsta could you explain to me why you rpefer SL over Tube. It doesn't have to be that detailed and i know you have given reasons here and there already but I just wanna see it.
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Can't quite find the post. Busy watching. But SL said he thought I would recommend shit tier play like this. If I were mafia, then I'd have a plan setup for pretty much every lynch. Every night phase. SL knows this because he coached with me. Like even last game he made a good argument that I wouldn't be that much of a dumbass jerk as scum (he was mafia but eh). Like that's really fucking odd.
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On March 05 2015 19:14 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 19:08 geript wrote:On March 05 2015 19:02 Tubesock wrote:On March 05 2015 18:52 geript wrote:On March 05 2015 18:43 Tubesock wrote:
Is there really that much more risk by "checking" someone in the cell than outside?
If someone had a cop check on someone and ended up in a cell with them it's an absolute no brainer to claim like Sandroba did.
If the check was outside, wouldn't you claim differently? You guys already kinda thought the claim was too casual as it was.
Plus, hell I'd gamble that Onegu who hasn't really been motivated to play wouldn't be further motivated with a green check. Now you just have to fight against 2 people instead of 3. Yes. Because mafia want to create a lynch between 3 people instead of 4 people. Especially when the person they're removing someone from the possibility of being lynched. Like it's really ridiculous to me. People get powers. We know this. I know that either someone RB'd me or that Sepulchre is not town because I shot his ass last night. Like Sandro claiming a greencheck on an easy mislynch when he's mafia is pretty insane. Like really insane. Like I can't believe that Artanis would be a Bastard host and have 2 mafia in the group. I think he just worded it that way because he wanted to be able to include ninjas. Like so far only 2 people have claimed getting powers, Me and Sandro. Kita's response probably means he got a power too. I'm guess he got medic because that makes the most sense overall. I don't think it's that insane. I think it's the only sane play he could make. If Sandroba doesn't claim he dies. Even if he were town he was going to die. How could he survive that many dead town scumreads on him? You think no one is going to pick up on that? That you towned him while Rayn and Toad scummed him? Sicklucker constantly survives to endgame. Onegu is well respected and I think probably tougher to lynch in a cell than any of us in here. That leaves me. I had 4 people towning me, but lots of nulls. I literally think it's more possible that he's town fakeclaiming than he is real. Only play? Like there are a billion different plays he could make. Hell, he can red check anyone outside the cell. He can get hard bussed for cred. He can check a partner. He can play like he did in Catastrophe and be really uber towny and not get lynched until like d9. Like there's lots of options for him to take if he's mafia. Like a million different options. Why would he as a good player take the absolute fucking worst line of play physically possible. Like there is 1 play that you do not take as mafia in this situation. And that's the exact play that Sandro made. THE EXACT PLAY. Explain how a vet who's good, really good and spent his last mafia game completely unnoticed until he gave up because all his team got lynched and he was tired of trying to keep playing. Explain how Sandro can as mafia take the absolute worst fucking line of play possible. Like that's the thing that caught me off guard early on. You're right. There are other plays. This seems to me to be the best. I've said multiple times already why. So, show that I'm scum or ninja then. You are saying that Sicklucker might be scum over me? But then earlier you said it would be better to lynch ninja. So, why are you not pushing me? Instead of saying how stupid I am.
Lynching the ninja is a fucking horrid play n the situation we are in and i assume no I hope geript has realized that.
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On March 05 2015 19:18 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 19:14 Tubesock wrote:On March 05 2015 19:08 geript wrote:On March 05 2015 19:02 Tubesock wrote:On March 05 2015 18:52 geript wrote:On March 05 2015 18:43 Tubesock wrote:
Is there really that much more risk by "checking" someone in the cell than outside?
If someone had a cop check on someone and ended up in a cell with them it's an absolute no brainer to claim like Sandroba did.
If the check was outside, wouldn't you claim differently? You guys already kinda thought the claim was too casual as it was.
Plus, hell I'd gamble that Onegu who hasn't really been motivated to play wouldn't be further motivated with a green check. Now you just have to fight against 2 people instead of 3. Yes. Because mafia want to create a lynch between 3 people instead of 4 people. Especially when the person they're removing someone from the possibility of being lynched. Like it's really ridiculous to me. People get powers. We know this. I know that either someone RB'd me or that Sepulchre is not town because I shot his ass last night. Like Sandro claiming a greencheck on an easy mislynch when he's mafia is pretty insane. Like really insane. Like I can't believe that Artanis would be a Bastard host and have 2 mafia in the group. I think he just worded it that way because he wanted to be able to include ninjas. Like so far only 2 people have claimed getting powers, Me and Sandro. Kita's response probably means he got a power too. I'm guess he got medic because that makes the most sense overall. I don't think it's that insane. I think it's the only sane play he could make. If Sandroba doesn't claim he dies. Even if he were town he was going to die. How could he survive that many dead town scumreads on him? You think no one is going to pick up on that? That you towned him while Rayn and Toad scummed him? Sicklucker constantly survives to endgame. Onegu is well respected and I think probably tougher to lynch in a cell than any of us in here. That leaves me. I had 4 people towning me, but lots of nulls. I literally think it's more possible that he's town fakeclaiming than he is real. Only play? Like there are a billion different plays he could make. Hell, he can red check anyone outside the cell. He can get hard bussed for cred. He can check a partner. He can play like he did in Catastrophe and be really uber towny and not get lynched until like d9. Like there's lots of options for him to take if he's mafia. Like a million different options. Why would he as a good player take the absolute fucking worst line of play physically possible. Like there is 1 play that you do not take as mafia in this situation. And that's the exact play that Sandro made. THE EXACT PLAY. Explain how a vet who's good, really good and spent his last mafia game completely unnoticed until he gave up because all his team got lynched and he was tired of trying to keep playing. Explain how Sandro can as mafia take the absolute worst fucking line of play possible. Like that's the thing that caught me off guard early on. You're right. There are other plays. This seems to me to be the best. I've said multiple times already why. So, show that I'm scum or ninja then. You are saying that Sicklucker might be scum over me? But then earlier you said it would be better to lynch ninja. So, why are you not pushing me? Instead of saying how stupid I am. Lynching the ninja is a fucking horrid play n the situation we are in and i assume no I hope geript has realized that.
That has to do with kp reduction though.
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On March 05 2015 19:17 Breshke wrote:
Mocsta could you explain to me why you rpefer SL over Tube. It doesn't have to be that detailed and i know you have given reasons here and there already but I just wanna see it. 1. The claim doesnt make sense to me from mafia motivation. Which "clears" sandroba, and Onegu by default (unless a godfather???) but i dont really have anything to press onegu on if he was GF, which leaves me with SL/Tube.
To be honest, i haven't pushed myself to re-read tube from last night. And sick i avoided last night, and again, going to have to compel myself to read him today. I mean,... both these guys have 7 page filters of jack shit.. the others have barely 2 pages of filter.. liek cell was meant to make this easier ffs.
My thought process yesterday regarding tube was along the lines of:
- was free flowing / casual
- seemed consistent across the filter in motivation
- didnt seem like he was actively trying to withhold information.. which is interesting because it led to me and kitamin reading a "open policy" post completely different (me town, him scum)
For reference:
On March 04 2015 03:48 Tubesock wrote:
Rereading Your Mom, I don't really see anything, but reading Rayn's cases and arguments I'm basically sold he's/she's mafia. Rayn is pretty convincing and I'm strongly townreading him. On March 04 2015 04:00 Tubesock wrote:
I didn't see a reason for him scumming you at first. But later he does, and lays them out. I read Rayn's case and thought that makes sense. I then reread your filter and the first few pages looking at you and skimming the rest, but then I don't see the scum. But I really think Rayn is town. So, I'm conflicted and unsure. It is why I'm not voting you just yet. On March 05 2015 00:40 kitaman27 wrote:
These two posts seem scummy in hindsight. It's tough to follow his thought process in a sequence that makes sense.
From what I can tell:
1) He reads Your Mom's filter, doesn't see anything wrong
2) He reads rayn's case, thinks it makes sense and is sold that he is mafia
3) He rereads Your Mom's filter with rayn's case in mind and still doesn't see anything wrong
As far as I can tell, all three events happened by the time the first post was made since he specifically refers to rereading.
If he doesn't think rayn's case works after rereading, why is he still saying that it makes sense? Can you reread Your Mom's filter with rayn's case in mind and think that BOTH rayn's case make sense and Your Mom's filter is not scummy?
How does he go from "sold he's mafia" to "don't see the scum" in that twelve minute period when questioned further? I also dislike that he mentions multiple times that a large part of the read is based on his view that rayn is town, rather than finding things that make your mom is mafia. On March 05 2015 00:47 Mocsta wrote:
LOL
its this very post that made me town read him
i see lots of town change their view based on ppl they think are towny.
not sure if mafia would be so open about this to be honest.
+as town im often chastised for switching "strong" viws so i know this isnt a hard mafia indicator,
tl;dr hes put his cards exactly as what they are with no additional agenda/distraction afterwards. to me thats townie
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On March 05 2015 19:21 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 19:18 Breshke wrote:On March 05 2015 19:14 Tubesock wrote:On March 05 2015 19:08 geript wrote:On March 05 2015 19:02 Tubesock wrote:On March 05 2015 18:52 geript wrote:On March 05 2015 18:43 Tubesock wrote:
Is there really that much more risk by "checking" someone in the cell than outside?
If someone had a cop check on someone and ended up in a cell with them it's an absolute no brainer to claim like Sandroba did.
If the check was outside, wouldn't you claim differently? You guys already kinda thought the claim was too casual as it was.
Plus, hell I'd gamble that Onegu who hasn't really been motivated to play wouldn't be further motivated with a green check. Now you just have to fight against 2 people instead of 3. Yes. Because mafia want to create a lynch between 3 people instead of 4 people. Especially when the person they're removing someone from the possibility of being lynched. Like it's really ridiculous to me. People get powers. We know this. I know that either someone RB'd me or that Sepulchre is not town because I shot his ass last night. Like Sandro claiming a greencheck on an easy mislynch when he's mafia is pretty insane. Like really insane. Like I can't believe that Artanis would be a Bastard host and have 2 mafia in the group. I think he just worded it that way because he wanted to be able to include ninjas. Like so far only 2 people have claimed getting powers, Me and Sandro. Kita's response probably means he got a power too. I'm guess he got medic because that makes the most sense overall. I don't think it's that insane. I think it's the only sane play he could make. If Sandroba doesn't claim he dies. Even if he were town he was going to die. How could he survive that many dead town scumreads on him? You think no one is going to pick up on that? That you towned him while Rayn and Toad scummed him? Sicklucker constantly survives to endgame. Onegu is well respected and I think probably tougher to lynch in a cell than any of us in here. That leaves me. I had 4 people towning me, but lots of nulls. I literally think it's more possible that he's town fakeclaiming than he is real. Only play? Like there are a billion different plays he could make. Hell, he can red check anyone outside the cell. He can get hard bussed for cred. He can check a partner. He can play like he did in Catastrophe and be really uber towny and not get lynched until like d9. Like there's lots of options for him to take if he's mafia. Like a million different options. Why would he as a good player take the absolute fucking worst line of play physically possible. Like there is 1 play that you do not take as mafia in this situation. And that's the exact play that Sandro made. THE EXACT PLAY. Explain how a vet who's good, really good and spent his last mafia game completely unnoticed until he gave up because all his team got lynched and he was tired of trying to keep playing. Explain how Sandro can as mafia take the absolute worst fucking line of play possible. Like that's the thing that caught me off guard early on. You're right. There are other plays. This seems to me to be the best. I've said multiple times already why. So, show that I'm scum or ninja then. You are saying that Sicklucker might be scum over me? But then earlier you said it would be better to lynch ninja. So, why are you not pushing me? Instead of saying how stupid I am. Lynching the ninja is a fucking horrid play n the situation we are in and i assume no I hope geript has realized that. That has to do with kp reduction though.
What? If we kill a ninja the other is also removed from the game. Thats two people who count as numbers for town or whatever i think its called parity? I know their win con isn't to hunt mafia but right know it might as well be because if town keeps getting lynched they just straight up lose both having one shot left. It is better for them for the game to go longer as it narrows down the pool for the other possible ninja. They are basically aligned with whatever side is losing and right now its town.
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On March 05 2015 19:21 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 19:18 Breshke wrote:On March 05 2015 19:14 Tubesock wrote:On March 05 2015 19:08 geript wrote:On March 05 2015 19:02 Tubesock wrote:On March 05 2015 18:52 geript wrote:On March 05 2015 18:43 Tubesock wrote:
Is there really that much more risk by "checking" someone in the cell than outside?
If someone had a cop check on someone and ended up in a cell with them it's an absolute no brainer to claim like Sandroba did.
If the check was outside, wouldn't you claim differently? You guys already kinda thought the claim was too casual as it was.
Plus, hell I'd gamble that Onegu who hasn't really been motivated to play wouldn't be further motivated with a green check. Now you just have to fight against 2 people instead of 3. Yes. Because mafia want to create a lynch between 3 people instead of 4 people. Especially when the person they're removing someone from the possibility of being lynched. Like it's really ridiculous to me. People get powers. We know this. I know that either someone RB'd me or that Sepulchre is not town because I shot his ass last night. Like Sandro claiming a greencheck on an easy mislynch when he's mafia is pretty insane. Like really insane. Like I can't believe that Artanis would be a Bastard host and have 2 mafia in the group. I think he just worded it that way because he wanted to be able to include ninjas. Like so far only 2 people have claimed getting powers, Me and Sandro. Kita's response probably means he got a power too. I'm guess he got medic because that makes the most sense overall. I don't think it's that insane. I think it's the only sane play he could make. If Sandroba doesn't claim he dies. Even if he were town he was going to die. How could he survive that many dead town scumreads on him? You think no one is going to pick up on that? That you towned him while Rayn and Toad scummed him? Sicklucker constantly survives to endgame. Onegu is well respected and I think probably tougher to lynch in a cell than any of us in here. That leaves me. I had 4 people towning me, but lots of nulls. I literally think it's more possible that he's town fakeclaiming than he is real. Only play? Like there are a billion different plays he could make. Hell, he can red check anyone outside the cell. He can get hard bussed for cred. He can check a partner. He can play like he did in Catastrophe and be really uber towny and not get lynched until like d9. Like there's lots of options for him to take if he's mafia. Like a million different options. Why would he as a good player take the absolute fucking worst line of play physically possible. Like there is 1 play that you do not take as mafia in this situation. And that's the exact play that Sandro made. THE EXACT PLAY. Explain how a vet who's good, really good and spent his last mafia game completely unnoticed until he gave up because all his team got lynched and he was tired of trying to keep playing. Explain how Sandro can as mafia take the absolute worst fucking line of play possible. Like that's the thing that caught me off guard early on. You're right. There are other plays. This seems to me to be the best. I've said multiple times already why. So, show that I'm scum or ninja then. You are saying that Sicklucker might be scum over me? But then earlier you said it would be better to lynch ninja. So, why are you not pushing me? Instead of saying how stupid I am. Lynching the ninja is a fucking horrid play n the situation we are in and i assume no I hope geript has realized that. That has to do with kp reduction though.
But the townie pool has been diluted?
--> mafia have higher chance of being hit by remaining bullets.
I dont think mafia kp is reduced until 2 die.. so we are better off lynching mafia (which expectation that ninja hit ninja or mafia)
Thats my Philosphical poitn of view. please dont debate if you disagree. its not alignment indicative.
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Lynching ninja now is only -1 KP. Whereas lynching mafia now is like -.5 KP per night.
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just musing here:
The key to TubeSock alignment boils down to his posiion on "your mom".
Thinking about it in more detail. Mafia are very often caught in the temptation of following a strong town case on the wrong target; vs. trying to not be on the forefront when the green blood is cast.
I still like the honesty though. It didnt read to me like hes trying to make himself look good.
This confusion i feel truly could indicate hes a ninja. Its not like the shuriken shots were any good.
Need to think more. We have 30 odd hours still.
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On March 05 2015 19:29 geript wrote:
Lynching ninja now is only -1 KP. Whereas lynching mafia now is like -.5 KP per night.
So clearly mafia lynch >>> ninja lynch.
Better long term return.
Moving on please.
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Geript.
Should Onegu be cleared by sandroba?
i.e. GF possibility?
was there anything to think onegu could be town prior to the check?
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On March 04 2015 07:07 sicklucker wrote:
But your shooting koshi so thats ok. Well im caught up now.
So im not the best scumhunter so im very happy we found one. I think he is by far the best shot like 80%+ flipping mafia now with his added play. Any other shot wont be anywhere near as high a percentage and your deluding yourself if you think so "rayn".
People who look a little weird to me
Dandred
Breske
toad
kita
Robiks town read on me makes my skin crawl I wouldnt mind you explaining that if you havent already.
Hts has never town read me before either but her reasons were not terrible.
Something rstoulin said that I dont want to repeat makes me think shes town BTW.
This post really sits wrong with me.
Theres an underlying tone of smugness behind it.
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Geript. i cant remember if we played together in that back to school gm game that ended in major drama?
I know rayn was in it and corazon.
Anyways, sicklucker fitler just gives me recalls of holyflare in that game. He was mafia btw.
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On March 05 2015 19:18 geript wrote:
Can't quite find the post. Busy watching. But SL said he thought I would recommend shit tier play like this. If I were mafia, then I'd have a plan setup for pretty much every lynch. Every night phase. SL knows this because he coached with me. Like even last game he made a good argument that I wouldn't be that much of a dumbass jerk as scum (he was mafia but eh). Like that's really fucking odd.
I mean if your mafia and your team made a play. (which is a play to get 2 mislynches thats 6 dead townies and seals mafia the game) Then ya I think you would back it. Its a strong allin play.
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On March 05 2015 19:25 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 19:17 Breshke wrote:
Mocsta could you explain to me why you rpefer SL over Tube. It doesn't have to be that detailed and i know you have given reasons here and there already but I just wanna see it. 1. The claim doesnt make sense to me from mafia motivation. Which "clears" sandroba, and Onegu by default (unless a godfather???) but i dont really have anything to press onegu on if he was GF, which leaves me with SL/Tube. To be honest, i haven't pushed myself to re-read tube from last night. And sick i avoided last night, and again, going to have to compel myself to read him today. I mean,... both these guys have 7 page filters of jack shit.. the others have barely 2 pages of filter.. liek cell was meant to make this easier ffs. My thought process yesterday regarding tube was along the lines of: - was free flowing / casual - seemed consistent across the filter in motivation - didnt seem like he was actively trying to withhold information.. which is interesting because it led to me and kitamin reading a "open policy" post completely different (me town, him scum) For reference: Show nested quote +On March 04 2015 03:48 Tubesock wrote:
Rereading Your Mom, I don't really see anything, but reading Rayn's cases and arguments I'm basically sold he's/she's mafia. Rayn is pretty convincing and I'm strongly townreading him. Show nested quote +On March 04 2015 04:00 Tubesock wrote:
I didn't see a reason for him scumming you at first. But later he does, and lays them out. I read Rayn's case and thought that makes sense. I then reread your filter and the first few pages looking at you and skimming the rest, but then I don't see the scum. But I really think Rayn is town. So, I'm conflicted and unsure. It is why I'm not voting you just yet. Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 00:40 kitaman27 wrote:
These two posts seem scummy in hindsight. It's tough to follow his thought process in a sequence that makes sense.
From what I can tell:
1) He reads Your Mom's filter, doesn't see anything wrong
2) He reads rayn's case, thinks it makes sense and is sold that he is mafia
3) He rereads Your Mom's filter with rayn's case in mind and still doesn't see anything wrong
As far as I can tell, all three events happened by the time the first post was made since he specifically refers to rereading.
If he doesn't think rayn's case works after rereading, why is he still saying that it makes sense? Can you reread Your Mom's filter with rayn's case in mind and think that BOTH rayn's case make sense and Your Mom's filter is not scummy?
How does he go from "sold he's mafia" to "don't see the scum" in that twelve minute period when questioned further? I also dislike that he mentions multiple times that a large part of the read is based on his view that rayn is town, rather than finding things that make your mom is mafia. Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 00:47 Mocsta wrote:
LOL
its this very post that made me town read him
i see lots of town change their view based on ppl they think are towny.
not sure if mafia would be so open about this to be honest.
+as town im often chastised for switching "strong" viws so i know this isnt a hard mafia indicator,
tl;dr hes put his cards exactly as what they are with no additional agenda/distraction afterwards. to me thats townie
Your mindset is so bad. Theres no god fathers theres no roles.
Theres random spirits that give random roles to random people. If you dont trust the person that received it its literally trash and is just as likely to be completely made up. Theres no risks of counterclaims or getting busted it this format. Its all about what you believe and you shouldnt believe this guy over two people bleeding town.
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Mocsta, for what it's worth those two posts were directly answering someone's questioning to me. I previously read Your Mom's filter and felt towny about it. Rayne posted his case and I thought it was a good case. I reread YM but I didn't get the "Aha!" feeling but couldn't argue with the case from Rayne. Someone asked me about my YM read I answered. Then YM asked and I answered. There wasn't any reevaluating during that 12 minutes. I was reading the thread and making a vote count post.
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On March 05 2015 19:40 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2015 19:18 geript wrote:
Can't quite find the post. Busy watching. But SL said he thought I would recommend shit tier play like this. If I were mafia, then I'd have a plan setup for pretty much every lynch. Every night phase. SL knows this because he coached with me. Like even last game he made a good argument that I wouldn't be that much of a dumbass jerk as scum (he was mafia but eh). Like that's really fucking odd. I mean if your mafia and your team made a play. (which is a play to get 2 mislynches thats 6 dead townies and seals mafia the game) Then ya I think you would back it. Its a strong allin play.
So basically your entire argument for not being lynched is the dangling golden carrot
Lol
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Oh shit he did call rsoultin town lol
Anyway not sure if this matters but
Press
Breshke
Guard
LS
Destroy
FF
HtS
Mocsta
Did not submit
Tube
Sl
Onegu
OWS
Robik
Oats
This is what people have said so far i believe. Now if we assume that people who did not submit don't default to guard we can draw a few conclsuons about the device.
If mafia know what the device does I believe they could have easily all voted for the same action and gotten it passed considering how many did not submits there is. So it wasn't destroyed meaning it isn't good for town. It wasn't pressed meaning it was currently not good for mafia. It was guarded meaning it may be of future use to mafia.
This is all useless if mafia don't know what the device does so do therefore not give a fuck but we are probably safest destroying it on the off chance they do.
Also I like Mocsta a lot this phase, might be because he is mainly active when I am being from similar timezones but he seems to be trying to lead town when a lot of the people doing this ebfore him (rayn, rsoultin) are now dead. Could argue that this works for him as mafia but his reads are lining up with mine so that also helps.
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On March 05 2015 19:32 Mocsta wrote:
Geript.
Should Onegu be cleared by sandroba?
i.e. GF possibility?
was there anything to think onegu could be town prior to the check?
Yes if you believe sandroba he should be cleared.
Mafia could have been given a framer role for one night but the odds of them having one and it ending up on onegu are like 1/60 or worse. If you believe sanddroba you pretty much just have to ride or die with onegu.
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Mocstas thought process is terrible he has facts pretty wrong. This might make him town I Think mafias way more likely to know wtf is going on by reading op or scum qt.
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EPT
