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You can see why Tere's extremely slight breadcrumbing of vigilante has no significance, right?
For one, it's a terrible idea to counterclaim to something that slight. Tere could easily take it all back as a misinterpretation, especially when she posted in bold and all caps telling people not to claim as a result of what she was doing. So claiming would serve zero purpose.
Second, scum doesn't have that much more incentive to shoot someone who is breadcrumbing that slightly. Normal roleclaims have some of their power because if they are town, they are a high risk to get shot by the mafia. A slight breadcrumb like this avoids much of this risk, therefore it deserves a lot less importance on it.
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I'm still waiting to see Tere's case. I want to know if it is at all possible that a town Tere could arrive at this conclusion.
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On February 20 2015 04:45 ElyAs wrote:
Placing my vote now because I can't stay in front of my computer. I'll read the thread and I'll be back at least one hour before EoD. My decision is not final, but It's consistent with my train of thought. I don't get it.
You are scumreading me for the sole reason that you think I am the godfather. And you didn't respond to why that is nonsensical.
Maybe there are some parts in my play that look scummy because I AM NOT PERFECT? There are parts in EVERYONE'S play that look scummy. Are they all godfathers?
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ElyAs voted for me. I still think he is probably town, even if terribly misguided and not making sense right now. I don't really see his claim as holding that much value since few people have been here to counterclaim.
Let's assume that both mafia vote for me as well. That means that all remaining town need to vote for the same target.
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I could lynch Silverarte. That is a reasonable lynch for acceptable reasons.
How about a Silverarte/Tere scumteam? I happened upon the possibility by accident. Do you see how Tere townread Silverarte for tone, despite Silverarte having done nothing? And after I voiced my suspicions of Silverarte, Tere changed her read to a scumread when Silverarte suspiciously appeared in the thread right after.
Tere, you said you want to settle the lynch early. It's less than four hours for the deadline, and you still haven't started your push. Make your case now, so I can decide if you are scum and I have time to prepare a defense. You can't expect me to defend myself if you don't give me time to do so. To this point, I have addressed every accusation thrown at me and have come out with logically superior arguments.
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What do you expect me to say? I've given literally everything I have to this game. I've tried as hard as I possibly can. I've been leading town the whole way. I have nothing else to say, nothing else in reserve. I've done my very best. I've been completely transparent and truthful about everything I have been doing. I've discussed everything in the thread, I've answered every question. I've kept an open mind.
If that hasn't been enough, then I don't know what to say. I feel extremely betrayed by a town that I gave my very best effort for.
I could post more reasoning, but no one seems to be listening.
Those of you who are town, when I flip, I expect you to feel guilty. You deserve it for not treating my case with the same level of critical thinking and care with which I treated yours.
Those of you who are scum, well played. I didn't think it was possible. The rsoultin night kill was absolutely brilliant.
Tere, if you are in fact scum (which is fairly likely at this point), congratulations. Your scum game is extremely scary. I've wanted to lynch you so many times, but there are so many subtle tells in your filter that seem genuine. And as soon as I townread you and gave you something to work with, you ran with it and never gave me a chance. Absolutely brutal.
If there is anyone who is willing to listen, I can explain why I am town. Until then, I give up. Tere, you win.
+ Show Spoiler +Am I frustrated? Mad? Upset? Yes, yes, and yes. Given the amount of time and effort I have put into this game, would you expect anything different, regardless of my alignment?
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On February 20 2015 05:16 zlefin wrote:
I have been considering what a silverarte/tere team would do. I thought you didn't like association analysis? Why you up to association analysis now? I ran across it by accident. You asked me early in day 2, I believe, and I stated this then. That was the same post where I said that I hate association analysis.
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I'm sorry. I don't definitively know who the scum team is. Remember the part where I said I probably townread someone who is scum, I just don't know who?
I wish I could be right. If I was right and I knew it, then I wouldn't get lynched right here. My last five mafia games have taught me a lot of things, but how to be right is not one of them. The 25% I posted in my first post? That is actually the number.
Incorrect case on batsnacks
Incorrect case on Damdred
Correct case on KelsierSC
Incorrect case on IAmRobik
I'm sorry I can't always be right. I don't always have the answers. That doesn't mean I am mafia, that doesn't mean I haven't been trying my very best.
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On February 20 2015 05:23 zlefin wrote:
I find your response strange and suspicious Trfel, it's awfully defensive and worried, and sounds strangely resigned.
Why would you feel betrayed by town when there's only 2 people voting on you right now?
There's more votes on other people than on you; and the remaining 2 people aren't too likely to vote against you either Trfel, certainly shining has you as the towniest person on his list, and I have no list from Jarjar, but I don't think he's likely to pile on you.
It feels like now, and a little while ago, trfel was pushing too strong defensively when not that many people were actually against him. You normally only see that kind of reaction when it's near or past half the town voting that way, not just 2 people, who could be the scum themselves.
That said, I still think Silver is by far the safest lynch choice for today, as this is only an oddity, but could just be people being/feeling weird, or miscounting how many people are on which wagon. I am resigned. It's over, I'm getting lynched. There are seven people alive, you need four people to guarantee a lynch, so two is in fact halfway there.
Nothing is overly defensive when a player as clearly skilled as Tere says that she is scumreading you with 95% confidence and a case is coming. That clearly indicates a hard push, which Tere later confirmed is coming. If I am getting hard pushed, you bet I'm going to defend myself with everything I have, even if it doesn't have popular support yet.
I've been pouring my life into this game. There's nothing else I can give.
ElyAs is probably town. So if both scum vote for me, that means every single other townie has to be here and vote for the same target.
If town doesn't see why I am town, the game is hopeless even if I somehow manage to avoid being lynched today.
Maybe I could keep arguing and save myself. But I'm not even sure if I care to, if this is how town will treat me. Zlefin, if you are willing to listen and make your own decisions, I'm more than willing to talk to you about this. I did not receive that indication from ElyAs.
Tere, you didn't even need to make a case.
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Look. If Tere never actually posts this case, she is obvious scum. Maybe it's possible that she is town and she lynches me. But this is never possible if she doesn't make a case.
You need to look at her case. After I flip, you can get rid of these stupid notions of unflipped associative reads and that my play obviously reveals that I am the godfather. Look at the content of her case, ignore the amount, look and see if she is thinking critically. I'm guessing you won't find it.
Don't let her get away with lynching me and not even making a case, not even putting herself on the line for it.
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Again, in case it was missed in all that.
If any townie is willing to talk to me, and listen to me, and reason with me, and keep an open mind, I am willing to do this as well. But you're going to need to say this. I'm not going to defend myself if no one is willing to listen.
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At the moment, I don't even know what the arguments are against me. I can't be expected to defend myself against nonexistent arguments. If my current defenses don't make sense to you, tell me why, so I can respond.
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On February 20 2015 05:32 Trfel wrote:
Again, in case it was missed in all that.
If any townie is willing to talk to me, and listen to me, and reason with me, and keep an open mind, I am willing to do this as well. But you're going to need to say this. I'm not going to defend myself if no one is willing to listen. See, this is why I am not defending myself. No one cares to listen. No one cares to say why I am being scumread.
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If you're going to play a game of mafia and not care at all, it would have been nice to let me know first.
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Tere's post had better be the longest wall of text in the history of wall of texts. Why? It's taken her over two hours to put this together so far.
What's more, she already scumread me. With 95% or higher confidence. This indicates that she has taken the time to do a full and careful analysis already, so she knows what she is looking for. That should make actually typing up the case much quicker.
I almost think that her delay is just to watch me die as I don't even have a case to defend myself against. I can defend myself against arguments. I can't defend myself when I am being lynched with no arguments. She could just be delaying because she knows it's better if I don't get time to pick her arguments apart.
Her case had BETTER be up to standards. Take a look at it after I flip. Look back at my initial case on Tere, it still holds true. Look at my posting for the past few hours, while most of it is ranting, I have pointed out a ton of reasons why Tere's play is extremely suspicious as of late.
I need to head out for a bit, I'll be back soon.
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I'm going to start working on my final post with my directions for how to proceed at LYLO. If you are town and you lynch me, that means your reads are so terrible that you had better do me the decency of following it.
And after I get lynched, I will make my non game-changing goodbye post. You bet it will be harsh. Those of you who are town and lynch me deserve it.
The Shining, thanks for being willing to think openly. If there is anything whatsoever that I can do for you, any question you want answered, any case you want me to build (except Tere, since I can't do that until she posts), I can do that.
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The Shining, if you think I am town, please switch your vote to Silverarte? I don't think a Tere lynch is possible today, since most people aren't even here, and Tere isn't posting her case so I can't tear it apart.
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And I take it back, I will not make a post-lynch goodbye post. As much as I want to yell at some of you for the rest of time, it's not my place. It's just a game. I apologize, I'll try to keep my behavior in line, but I hope you can understand why that is difficult for me to do at this time.
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On February 20 2015 06:04 Tere wrote:
Lookit all the appeals to emotion there.
Hey, Trfelscum, you conceding?
Epic incoming WOT once I have put some bold in. If I were scum conceding, then the game would already be over.
Town Trfel is conceding.
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On February 20 2015 06:04 Tere wrote:
Lookit all the appeals to emotion there.
Hey, Trfelscum, you conceding?
Epic incoming WOT once I have put some bold in. And, WHAT THE HECK ELSE am I supposed to appeal to when I am being scumread but not told the reasons?
This case took you a heck of a long time to prepare. It had better be worth the wait.
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EPT
