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On December 18 2014 13:39 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 13:32 Vivax wrote:On December 18 2014 13:24 Fecalfeast wrote:
There is some crazy WIFOM in those night kills and its hurting my brain The wifom isnt crazy, you either believe they got killed for what they said or cause scum wants us to believe what they said. If you ever played scum you should know it's almost always for the first reason, so not as wifomy as you make it to be. I'm voting HF. Well, that answers my question to you, that you didn't bother to answer directly. You may as well have added SL's post as a quote to the bottom of your others. Here's another question for you: Do you always scumhunt by analyzing what nightkills say, and how has that worked out for you if that's the case? You did this on Day 2 as well with FF. At least within this thread, that's a pattern, but I don't know if that's your meta or not. So I'm inclined to think you believe it...even though I'm not completely sure as to why. Do you still believe FF is scum based on the kills from Night 1? The time I got night-killed last game, I was scumreading two townies xP So at least it can be said that nightkills aren't always based on what the player is saying (as well as the fact that I'm not always right). (Also find it very interesting when players start ignoring me when I ask them questions. Is that because you don't know how to respond? Or am I just scary? -growls-)
Yes I look at what the NKs said most of the times. It's the one part of the day where you can try to see the game through the eyes of scum. Especially when you can assume it wasn't a bluesnipe.
FF has a green check so I'm not lynching him until we lynched all the other amount of scum and know for sure that a godfather didn't flip.
As for your questions, I didn't look at them yet. I just looked at the flips, read what the NKs wrote and posted it in the thread, I'm not always fully caught up. But I guess they're answered now?
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I'm rereading scum's filters atm between doing other stuff. Insights so far: From ritoky's D1 filter I get suspicious of Templar. Go look why if you're interested.
Will probably dedicate the day to a stream of thought on this topic.
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Templar ur scum with Oats HF, amirite?
There's this part in ritoky's filter where he calls you out on the fluffy posts, and it sounds entirely different from how he handles his next suspect, plus his next suspect ends up among his scumreads and you don't. Plus there's one point where he questions an OWS townread but not a townread on you.
Additionally you've been a N1 kill in every game I was in and have bled townie every time from the start.
Sorry broski but this is ggnore.
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On December 18 2014 18:11 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 18:04 Vivax wrote:
Templar ur scum with Oats HF, amirite?
There's this part in ritoky's filter where he calls you out on the fluffy posts, and it sounds entirely different from how he handles his next suspect, plus his next suspect ends up among his scumreads and you don't. Plus there's one point where he questions an OWS townread but not a townread on you.
Additionally you've been a N1 kill in every game I was in and have bled townie every time from the start.
Sorry broski but this is ggnore. I'm pretty sure you did exactly the same thing. Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 15:07 Vivax wrote:
Also Templar is mafia.
Like super mafia. This post was followed by nearly 0 mention of me, for about 48-60 hours I believe. The only difference is that you quietly listed me on your scum list about 24 hours ago.
I've been quietly listing you as scum since D2, you will find me mentioning you previous to that post you quoted, I just mentioned it again in the post you quoted since I believe it was at a point where you talked about something that wasn't really scumhunting, so I saw it, got that feeling, and wrote it down.
Besides, I'm talking about flipped scum pretending to suspect you at one point, whereas I intend to follow through with my suspicion and lynch you once we get past HF.
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I'd rather see a case for HF being town rather than Templar being scum cause the obvious comes last.
I don't need convincing on Templar I need convincing on why HF is a worse lynch than him today when we have the evidence that Kelsier was voted over HF, which was the point the NightKill bats kept harping on.
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On December 18 2014 23:31 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 23:22 rsoultin wrote:
Okay -_- So for those of you who don't like wall posts I will make my stance simple. Most of my points on GB could happen as either town or mafia. Town can flip their reads on a gut read (odd that the one it protects is scum, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything) to someone instead of focusing on genuinely scummy behavior. Town can digress into a "town only gives presents to town" WIFOM for no reason. Town can speculate on set-ups and base scum reads on that. Town can tunnel. All of these things together look worse...or at least make the player look like a bad town player...but there are a couple things that are scum-motivated that have no town motivation at all:
- Continually calling for mass claiming in an open set-up where scum has 2-3KSs.Or calling for certain individuals to claim (carolers, those who were roleblocked, vet)
- Attempting to take credit for a lynch when he did not catch the lie, and furthermore did not vote for the player being lynched, when he clearly had enough time to do so. His defense that he was trying to see who would jump onto a third train was never followed through on...he is back on his old soapbox today.
^ There are no reasons that these are town behaviors. Plain and simple. You can ignore everything else and write it off as a pisspoor town player, but there are no reasons for a town player to do these two things.
HF may well be scum, I don't know. But I haven't seen him do scummy things, and I have seen GB do a multitude. Again, if you want to base your lynch decisions on WIFOM, presents, and set-up speculation...be my guest. Don't be surprised if it comes back to bite you in the arse though. Yeah I agree. For both of those the scum motivation is strong and the town motivation is non-existent. I like Templar as scum too, though. But at least he hasn't actively pushed scum agenda. ##Vote GlowingBear
Well lynching GB before Templar is fucking bonkers and what you just gave is another bad reason for not voting Templar.
It gives me the flashbacks of your reasons for reading bunnies either way.
I like Templar as scum too, though. But at least he hasn't actively pushed scum agenda.
Like, this part is so so so bad it leaves me without words. It just reminded me of all the reasons I had for scumreading you, and it's just a bad justification.
First of all, no scum that is in his right mind will push mafia agenda visibly to the thread, this already presumes that you know what mafia agenda is. There's no way for you to discern between a townie giving bad advice and a scum here.
Second, if you think both are scum, there's no reason to prefer GB over Templar for what you wrote there, it just reads like a scummy excuse.
I have trouble putting it into words properly, but that part I quote just looks SO terrible, and I'm trying to give that feeling a reason. I think it's the fact that you even find Templar worth of being mentioned, being so sure of yourself he isn't pushing mafia agenda when he's simply SCUM, and scum doesn't do anything besides their thing, which is this buzzword mafia agenda.
Maybe there are 6 scum actually, or one of Oats and HF is town cause Xata is back into the pile.
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tl;dr: When I read that part, I just have the feeling it's nothing but a big bad lazy lie.
"but at least he hasn't actively pushed mafia agenda", oh come on.
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"Hey bro I think you're scum but I'm not gonna lynch you cause at least you don't do the things evil scum does"
BAAAAAAD
LIIEEEEE
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I don't want to question the validity of that.
What I'm questioning is that in the post you just wrote, that particular part looks like
![[image loading]](http://drawception.com/pub/panels/2012/4-2/egebjXhe82-6.png)
And when I saw it,
my incorporated lie detector immediately tingled.
It's nothing a townie writes, cause townies won't find such a justification to put one lynch ahead of the other.
They won't find such an excuse for their own scumread, like, if you think GB is scum and is pushing mafia agenda, WHO CARES.
Nobody is following through with what he suggests, you have no motivation to defend Templar by saying he's not pushing mafia agenda, except when you're scum intent on delaying his lynch, or justifying why you prefer GB over him.
It's a steaming poopy lie, like the bunnies stuff you wrote D1 when you first defended and then voted her.
@ HF
Here's a contract if you don't want me to lynch you.
I hereby solemnly declare that
[ ] My lynch for today will be Templar and only Templar, I will adhere to the case I wrote and not try to squirm out of that lynch.
[ ] My lynch for tomorrow will be Xatalos, for he is obvious lying scum.
[ ] This is totally not a blackmail.
If you don't agree to this contract I will see myself forced to vote for you cause you always disagreed with me on Xatalos and I will be forced to assume that you're protecting him on purpose.
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Well if he's a perfectly valid lynch then I want you to vote for him now cause according to what you say now there's not much difference between him and GB if they're both scum, right?
I'll be voting Templar before GB any day, so either you go for a compromise or you keep your vote on GB leading to less consolidated wagons, proving to have a scummy bias and a particular desire to favour GB over Templar cause Templar is sneakier and GB does the "obvious scummy stuff".
Show me how perfectly valid of a lynch he is. Can you change your vote and keep it there without squirming?
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Xatalos is clearly squirming after saying that the only reason he prefers GB is that he's pushing scum agenda "more openly", cause it's very important to put an end to his poisonous thread influence while templar doesn't do anything of the sort and only scums in silence, so he deserves to live a bit longer (lol).
Xata if you were town it would be in your best interest to vote Templar cause he's likely to gain more traction than GB which would also prevent your townread HF from being lynched, and yet now you put it like you have reasons to believe one is more likely scum than the other??? What's giving you the feel that Templar could be town?
Nothing, but ... (insert your excuse here)
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I won't fall for the indemnification part, you vote em or I lynch you 
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On December 19 2014 01:18 rsoultin wrote:
What is this about vote consolidation over 24 hrs before eod? What is this about criticizing someone for sticking with a read that they feel more sure of? Is everyone in this thread high? If xata sticks with one scumread over another at eod , in a race against someone he is not reading as scum, then you have a case. you guys make no sense to me. i think that lurking players could be scum too.
Yay lynch the lurkers. yet ill still try to lynch someone im more certain of first. how is that scummy so long as end game im willing to adjust to try to lynch the most likely scum who has a possibility of being lynched? Why dont you guys try to lynch me for the same thing youre badgering xata about?
And everyone is conveniently ignoring xatas point that vivax first argues scum acting like obvious scum then flips and says they never would. i dont even -_-
Well for him they should equally be scum but he finds a reason to lynch one scum first. It's not that he thinks Templar has some townie points to him, it's that he says he isn't pushing mafia agenda openly and doesn't have to be lynched so quickly. I have no idea how that doesn't sound like a cheap excuse to you. For me, mafia is mafia. Whether you vote Oats, Templar or Xata (HF I'm least sure on tbh, biggest argument for me is still ritoky voting Kelsier and bats dying from pressing that point) doesn't matter to me.
Like, the only reason for me to prefer a scum over the other is when I'm more confident about one guy over the other, and not the way they play in the thread, yet that is Xata's argument. He goes like "Oh well Templar is scum too, but cause he plays more passively I wouldn't lynch him first".
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On December 19 2014 01:33 Half the Sky wrote:
SL - read your post top of page 200.
- Your third quote from GB - he's using setup here. Anything setup related is entirely speculative. Vivax (I believe it was him) provided an alternative setup to that, so I'm not sure how setup implicates anyone or provides alignment indicative information. I don't think your post is a very strong one when you try and use that.
Holyflare, regarding your case page 201.
- Generally speaking I didn't like how Templar wasn't participatory and had a weaker scumread on him as of last cycle
- The case you have on Templar is very solid altogether, especially using the meta to back it up.
Both appear to have different styles of playing scum in the cases illustrated, and I would think not all scum are going play the same way on a single scum team. I made that point in Student Mafia IV that it was more unlikely that all scummers would play the same way, with two of them out of the way in this game, it is a reasonable assumption here assuming 3 remain.
I could vote for either GB or Templar based on what has been presented.
(Sidenotes:
HF - 10/10 on the contract lol
Vivax - did you really have to post that visual on page 203? ugh)
Can you give me a brief summary in own words of why you think that GB is scum?
On December 19 2014 01:38 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:17 Vivax wrote:I won't fall for the indemnification part, you vote em or I lynch you you bad at law bro, the indemnification part is so you can't do anything to me after the contract has ended or claim for things that arose out of the contract
Yeah it's a pain to read -.-'
On December 19 2014 01:55 Xatalos wrote:
While we're at it, Vivax, why is YOUR vote on your "weakest scumread"?
Oh come on dude. Are you serious? I'm discussing with you to get onto Templar, next thing you do is point out the next best thing you can call an inconsistency
On December 19 2014 01:55 Xatalos wrote:
While we're at it, Vivax, why is YOUR vote on your "weakest scumread"?
Oh come on dude. Are you serious? I'm discussing with you to get onto Templar, next thing you do is point out the next best thing you can call an inconsistency.
Ok, serious face. Why is my vote on HF? Cause I voted for him before. Does it matter it's still there when I'm talking about switching to Templar? Your guess? Or did you think I'd keep my vote on HF until EoD after asking you to switch your vote to Templar and that I want a consolidated wagon on him and you could help at that cause.
On December 19 2014 01:54 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 00:58 Vivax wrote:
Xatalos is clearly squirming after saying that the only reason he prefers GB is that he's pushing scum agenda "more openly", cause it's very important to put an end to his poisonous thread influence while templar doesn't do anything of the sort and only scums in silence, so he deserves to live a bit longer (lol).
Xata if you were town it would be in your best interest to vote Templar cause he's likely to gain more traction than GB which would also prevent your townread HF from being lynched, and yet now you put it like you have reasons to believe one is more likely scum than the other??? What's giving you the feel that Templar could be town?
Nothing, but ... (insert your excuse here) Ugh.... It feels like you make less and less sense each day. It's not like I have a huge preference between them. Let me ask you a question: there are players A and B, both of whom look like scum. You think A has done more scummy things and should have slight preference. However, you're willing to lynch both of them. Now why would you put down your vote on B first? You can just consolidate on B later if needed.
You didn't say you found GB scummier you said "GB is pushing scum agenda in the thread while Templar isn't".
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On December 19 2014 02:55 Xatalos wrote:
Well, I guess it's hard to top Kush in being anti-town... Still GB has systematically done similarly big favors for scum if he was town. It's just very hard to believe. In Kush's case it's still somewhat believable since he went full crazy but GB has at least made an effort not to look *that* bad.
Can you be more specific? Why is GB a better lynch than Templar?
Why has GB done big favors for scum?
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On December 19 2014 03:08 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 02:57 Vivax wrote:On December 19 2014 02:55 Xatalos wrote:
Well, I guess it's hard to top Kush in being anti-town... Still GB has systematically done similarly big favors for scum if he was town. It's just very hard to believe. In Kush's case it's still somewhat believable since he went full crazy but GB has at least made an effort not to look *that* bad. Can you be more specific? Why is GB a better lynch than Templar? Why has GB done big favors for scum? 1) Role fishing (although not very successful, he has at least reinforced the opinion that there's a merit to claiming roles and perhaps led to some of the role claims so far - which is very useful for the scumteam for several reasons such as aiming NK's and deciding future plans) 2) He's repeatedly attacked HF's credibility for bad reasons and made him into a recurring lynch candidate, even though he's probably just town with some time/post restraints... And then he advocated not shooting HF at night when it could have possibly resolved his long-time tunnel. But it looks like it'd be nicer for him to be able to continue that tunnel. And of course that'd be nice for the whole scumteam as well. (this is assuming that HF is town, but there's also the weirder scenario where they're both scum and GB's goal has been to bring down HF's credibility so that it's not weird for him to live so long... lol)
Maybe he genuinely thinks that a massclaim can solve the game, I don't see how that's necessarily a scum point.
Attacking HF's credibility..Well, until we know what HF is for sure we can only speculate about the motivation. GB might actually have done all that as town, and HF maybe is town too!
I fail to see how these reasons make you more confident into GB when HF just posted way more about Templar than what you are listing here about GB.
For the case that this isn't everything you find GB scummy for, why not post all at once if you want him lynched? That would be a display of passive play from your side.
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On December 19 2014 10:54 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 11:25 Vivax wrote:
Basing all your reads on night actions and setup speculation presuming you knew what they were is veeeery bad play. On the other hand you 180 ° on HF knowing that scum preferred voting Kelsier over him (might be that he asked to be bussed while being in hospital cause he couldn't play though, so his buddies could harvest some cred, that's also pretty speculative).
Ultimately it's better to focus on the actual plays rather than all this stuff, although given the difficulty in reading HF's plays it might be worth giving it a shot in his case. Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 13:32 Vivax wrote:
The wifom isnt crazy, you either believe they got killed for what they said or cause scum wants us to believe what they said. If you ever played scum you should know it's almost always for the first reason, so not as wifomy as you make it to be.
I'm voting HF. Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 13:50 Vivax wrote:
Yes I look at what the NKs said most of the times. It's the one part of the day where you can try to see the game through the eyes of scum. Especially when you can assume it wasn't a bluesnipe.
FF has a green check so I'm not lynching him until we lynched all the other amount of scum and know for sure that a godfather didn't flip.
Just backtracked to Vivax's use of nightkills. Operative parts in bold. This is looking contradictory...unless he's justifying the fact looking at HF as the reason to look at nightkills.
There's a difference between me analysing what the dead guys said and GB claiming to know what scum's exact actions at night were to prove a point, which that first post is about and you would know if you read in context.
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On December 19 2014 18:36 sicklucker wrote:
Mafia might be dividing on the gb/templar vote to switch and save hf her. Like this is a horrible idea why cant we just lynch hf? Like the templar was a great lynch for me before but not so much since hf,oats and ff are the first 3 votes and pushing this.
Vivax/ slam why are you sheeping your scum reads wtf?
God I wanted to sleep in but I dont trust you guy.
I'm just doing this so HF's gf can yell some more at him.
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Seriously though I'm rereading D1 + D2 interactions between HF and ritoky and Kels and they make it kinda hard to believe he's scum. When he votes ritoky that's also more or less the point when GB starts goin nuts on him (while he's in Belgium)
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Noticed something while going through HF's filter, so took a look at GB during that time.
On December 13 2014 05:28 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 05:10 sicklucker wrote:
Actually whoever started with the third present should claim immediately. Just dont say who you gave it too. I can get alot of info off this. Lol what kind of info? Lololol Ok, listen:
The only important point regarding presents is that ritoky claimed he got one, which is more detrimental than helpful, because, in case he don't die night1, he dies/get roleblocked night2, which is awful for town. But if you think of it again, there is no motive for him to claim that he is opening the present as mafia. I just used my brain a little more and got to this conclusion. Which means that talking about presents is only helpful when considering mass claiming. We should drop this discussion right now.
HF doesn't look like he is pushin town agenda, but his own self agenda. This looks much more like mafia holyflare. He points out things that aren't really mafiaish and doesn't seem to try to further identify people's alignment. His pushes aren't for solving the game. They are mostly done just to push, just to make a lynch happen, maybe.
His backtracking on froggy is weird because he kept an absolute stance regarding bunnies, who I just say sounded more null than anything, and froggy is leaning scum.
HF once came to the thread and said that we should look for people outside the NB wagon, which is ridiculous. He wasn't talking about people who WASTED their votes. He was talking about people outside the main wagon. He also said me and ritoky looked the worst. You can see he is doing a timid push on ritoky, but it really doesn't sound like he is trying to figure out his alignment. Weirdly enough, the present claim from ritoky remained unquestioned by HF. MOREOVER, he did not make ANY attempt to figure out my alignment when he said I looked bad at that time.
He is scum. [/u]
[b]
On December 12 2014 22:10 GlowingBear wrote:
I want to read more of the thread before making a case on HF, but a lot of his reasoning is off. The lack of push on ritoky's present claim, the multiple scumreads of wagons outside the 27nb wagon and the 27nb mislynch is all playing against him.
His entrance in this game is awful, he picking on bunnies for being contradictory when picking up on frogs awful entrance but not picking on Vivax post on frog... This kind of double standards worries me.
After saying that ritoky's present claim isn't a thing mafia does, GB reprimands HF for not pushing ritoky for his present claim. Not only is this inconsistent with what he said, but it also suggests TMI.
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EPT
