• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:47
CEST 15:47
KST 22:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27
Community News
Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."1Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.3Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)12BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1
StarCraft 2
General
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson." Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey. I have an extra ticket to the GSL Ro4/finals
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 28160 users

Fantasy Football Mafia Mini 2 - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 12:07 GMT
#235
On October 23 2014 21:05 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2014 20:59 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 20:50 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 20:49 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 20:14 StorrZerg wrote:
hf makes comments about people making reads with no posts, and how its probably a joke.

yet 2 pages latter he makes the same move. seems planned/forced imo. (making a read on a player with no posts)
doesn't sit right to me


Why does it seem planned/forced to you? What does he gain by doing this as mafia?


Why? Cause it is.


What? Could give him something to bitch about and tie up conversation. Idk.

The bolded is the important part. See, you are telling me that stating something that objectively makes no sense and is easily verifiable is a scummy thing to do and it really isn't.


So why is what he did town
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 12:13 GMT
#237
Rofl
so when do you read hf

Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 12:29 GMT
#241
On October 23 2014 21:14 liancourt wrote:
storr tunnel hf plz


Nahhh you are more fun
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 12:52 GMT
#253
On October 23 2014 21:47 justanothertownie wrote:
Nice. Yeah, feels weird for storrzerg to actually go against lian like this again. As town you are more careful after game like that. As scum he might feel the need to do it again to emulate his townplay.


how much are you reaching for that read there eah?/?
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 12:54 GMT
#255
i could make it serious O_o
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 12:54 GMT
#257
so lian who are you on 2p2
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 12:59 GMT
#260
On October 23 2014 21:41 Damdred wrote:
Sure its already been pointed out about robik and the comparison to guilty gear, while the initial town reads with no explanation is damning his lurkiness also seems antirobik which falls in line with the guilty mafiarobik.

Storr is my other scumlean just feels forced, the tunnel things feels off as well I'll have to reread another game I played with him but he says he doesn't tunnel as town.



missed this.

sheep read on robik

as for his read on me. its to vague.... to really comment on. so probably scummy for just trying to make a read.

and i see he has yet to give his town read
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 12:59 GMT
#262
On October 23 2014 21:57 liancourt wrote:
hahahahaha you think i'm someone else


i dont play on 2p2. i just assume you play on 2p2. (haven't even bothered to see if liancourt is on 2p2)
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:04 GMT
#266
On October 23 2014 21:58 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2014 21:54 StorrZerg wrote:
i could make it serious O_o

So it isn't? I have a hard time differentiating between your joke reads and your actual reads.


see jat your read on me tunneling lian woulda been cool if i was actually, you know tunneling on lian. Instead your comment is made right after imo a pretty obvious "troll"

On October 23 2014 21:29 StorrZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2014 21:14 liancourt wrote:
storr tunnel hf plz


Nahhh you are more fun



Its especially weird because you have been in the latest conversation jat, yet you interpreted this as a serious claim on my behalf.

I think if your town jat, you would have held on to that read, to see what i did, to see if i would tunnel liam. This is all if you are town, and you did think i was starting to tunnel liam.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:05 GMT
#267
On October 23 2014 22:02 liancourt wrote:
i don't even know what 2p2 is lol


nother mafia site, that is "werewolf" instead of "mafia"

(you used the term seer, in the previous game to refer to the cop early on which is why i thought you came from a different forum)
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:05 GMT
#268
On October 23 2014 22:00 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2014 21:59 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:41 Damdred wrote:
Sure its already been pointed out about robik and the comparison to guilty gear, while the initial town reads with no explanation is damning his lurkiness also seems antirobik which falls in line with the guilty mafiarobik.

Storr is my other scumlean just feels forced, the tunnel things feels off as well I'll have to reread another game I played with him but he says he doesn't tunnel as town.



missed this.

sheep read on robik

as for his read on me. its to vague.... to really comment on. so probably scummy for just trying to make a read.

and i see he has yet to give his town read

Should be me considering his other reads.


So you like his reads then?
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:09 GMT
#273
On October 23 2014 22:07 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2014 22:05 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:00 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:59 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:41 Damdred wrote:
Sure its already been pointed out about robik and the comparison to guilty gear, while the initial town reads with no explanation is damning his lurkiness also seems antirobik which falls in line with the guilty mafiarobik.

Storr is my other scumlean just feels forced, the tunnel things feels off as well I'll have to reread another game I played with him but he says he doesn't tunnel as town.



missed this.

sheep read on robik

as for his read on me. its to vague.... to really comment on. so probably scummy for just trying to make a read.

and i see he has yet to give his town read

Should be me considering his other reads.


So you like his reads then?

Yes, since I made both of those reads first and still think the same way I like those reads.


O i see. so if i just sheep someone else i get a free town read. kthx
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:10 GMT
#274
On October 23 2014 22:09 liancourt wrote:
different sites use different terms cops/seer/oracle/detective etc.


yes i know, thats my point as to why i thought you came from 2p2. cause you came into the game calling cop seer. idk what more this discussion has so we should move on now.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:11 GMT
#276
On October 23 2014 22:07 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2014 22:04 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:58 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:54 StorrZerg wrote:
i could make it serious O_o

So it isn't? I have a hard time differentiating between your joke reads and your actual reads.


see jat your read on me tunneling lian woulda been cool if i was actually, you know tunneling on lian. Instead your comment is made right after imo a pretty obvious "troll"

On October 23 2014 21:29 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:14 liancourt wrote:
storr tunnel hf plz


Nahhh you are more fun



Its especially weird because you have been in the latest conversation jat, yet you interpreted this as a serious claim on my behalf.

I think if your town jat, you would have held on to that read, to see what i did, to see if i would tunnel liam. This is all if you are town, and you did think i was starting to tunnel liam.

Obviously that post is trolling but you posted more about him earlier and it didn't make any less sense than your read on Holyflare.


you seem more concerned with how people should be reading the game. "criticizing me on my hf read" pushing it in the direction of "see storr, your read was bollucks"

wouldn't be surprised of a scum team of jat/hf
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:13 GMT
#277
On October 23 2014 22:10 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2014 22:09 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:07 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:05 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:00 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:59 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:41 Damdred wrote:
Sure its already been pointed out about robik and the comparison to guilty gear, while the initial town reads with no explanation is damning his lurkiness also seems antirobik which falls in line with the guilty mafiarobik.

Storr is my other scumlean just feels forced, the tunnel things feels off as well I'll have to reread another game I played with him but he says he doesn't tunnel as town.



missed this.

sheep read on robik

as for his read on me. its to vague.... to really comment on. so probably scummy for just trying to make a read.

and i see he has yet to give his town read

Should be me considering his other reads.


So you like his reads then?

Yes, since I made both of those reads first and still think the same way I like those reads.


O i see. so if i just sheep someone else i get a free town read. kthx

I never even said that I townread him. Who is reaching now?



my bad you are right. i didnt ask if you town read him.
HEY JAT ARE YOU TOWN READING THE GUY WHO HAS THE SAME READS AS YOU


Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:16 GMT
#280
On October 23 2014 22:14 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2014 22:11 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:07 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:04 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:58 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:54 StorrZerg wrote:
i could make it serious O_o

So it isn't? I have a hard time differentiating between your joke reads and your actual reads.


see jat your read on me tunneling lian woulda been cool if i was actually, you know tunneling on lian. Instead your comment is made right after imo a pretty obvious "troll"

On October 23 2014 21:29 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:14 liancourt wrote:
storr tunnel hf plz


Nahhh you are more fun



Its especially weird because you have been in the latest conversation jat, yet you interpreted this as a serious claim on my behalf.

I think if your town jat, you would have held on to that read, to see what i did, to see if i would tunnel liam. This is all if you are town, and you did think i was starting to tunnel liam.

Obviously that post is trolling but you posted more about him earlier and it didn't make any less sense than your read on Holyflare.


you seem more concerned with how people should be reading the game. "criticizing me on my hf read" pushing it in the direction of "see storr, your read was bollucks"

Yes, exactly. So you are agreeing that I am doing what a townie should do - great.
Your read on HF IS "bollucks" if you are town it is protown of me to show this to you. If you are scum it is protown of me to show the rest of town that you are making up bullshit.


no, i see what you are doing as deflection from hf. since you are not coming to any conclusion to hf. since "nothing he has done isn't alignment indicative" i read this as a cop out.

Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:17 GMT
#282
On October 23 2014 22:15 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2014 22:13 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:10 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:09 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:07 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:05 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 22:00 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:59 StorrZerg wrote:
On October 23 2014 21:41 Damdred wrote:
Sure its already been pointed out about robik and the comparison to guilty gear, while the initial town reads with no explanation is damning his lurkiness also seems antirobik which falls in line with the guilty mafiarobik.

Storr is my other scumlean just feels forced, the tunnel things feels off as well I'll have to reread another game I played with him but he says he doesn't tunnel as town.



missed this.

sheep read on robik

as for his read on me. its to vague.... to really comment on. so probably scummy for just trying to make a read.

and i see he has yet to give his town read

Should be me considering his other reads.


So you like his reads then?

Yes, since I made both of those reads first and still think the same way I like those reads.


O i see. so if i just sheep someone else i get a free town read. kthx

I never even said that I townread him. Who is reaching now?



my bad you are right. i didnt ask if you town read him.
HEY JAT ARE YOU TOWN READING THE GUY WHO HAS THE SAME READS AS YOU



Thanks for asking storr. Damdred gets + points for it but not really, no.


fantastic we can agree on something its a miracle
(though i guess we are not agreeing on it since you have him then "leaning townie" since he got + points)

ops am i assuming to much?
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:21 GMT
#287
On October 23 2014 22:16 justanothertownie wrote:
If you think I would feel the need to defend my scumbuddy HF this early against a weak ass scumread of yours then you are out of your mind btw.


why not. its not "really defending hf"
and from your point of view, what you are doing is "pro town"
so as mafia, why wouldn't you "defend a weak ass scum read" to show town that "storr makes up stuff"

your emotion in this post seems to be a bit forced / exaggerated
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:22 GMT
#289
On October 23 2014 22:20 Damdred wrote:
Generally I don't like cluttering up the thread with my townreads as I like scum hunting rather then townhunting. If people want my read on a specific person besides slam im happy to give it though.

Storr in the first fantasy game you said tunneling is not part of your town meta you just scum hunt basically. But you say its a joke now since its what happened last game with lian however your tone feels a bit off. And you do feel a bit forced and insincere



yeah lets not have discussion day 1.
so who be that town read
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
October 23 2014 13:23 GMT
#290
On October 23 2014 22:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2014 20:35 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 23 2014 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You shouldn't have said the last sentence.
My plan is to figure out you, thrawn and HF. If we are all town this game becomes much easier.

That's a good plan in theory but also very hard to do. Do you have any opinion on what has been said so far?

Not muxh. Except for couple of weird reads.
Storr since you are here explain the read on GB in detail please.


i liked his entrance.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
WardiTV June Playoffs
MaxPax vs SolarLIVE!
MaNa vs TBD
Reynor vs Creator
Gerald vs Spirit
WardiTV1366
TKL 269
Rex188
IndyStarCraft 156
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Sea Duckling Open #135
CranKy Ducklings79
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 318
TKL 269
Rex 188
IndyStarCraft 156
Livibee 118
BRAT_OK 102
ProTech94
Hui .57
Dewaltoss 56
MindelVK 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43786
Calm 7375
Rain 3724
Horang2 2352
Bisu 1289
Hyuk 1002
Mini 526
GuemChi 490
Sharp 406
BeSt 338
[ Show more ]
Light 256
Zeus 237
Nal_rA 221
Soulkey 178
Last 119
Mind 109
ToSsGirL 38
Terrorterran 21
sSak 18
scan(afreeca) 17
HiyA 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
Icarus 9
SilentControl 8
IntoTheRainbow 7
Noble 5
JulyZerg 4
Dota 2
Gorgc6409
qojqva1822
XcaliburYe312
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
flusha604
allub328
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor263
Other Games
singsing2372
B2W.Neo970
C9.Mang0539
DeMusliM438
Lowko385
Beastyqt249
Fuzer 207
XaKoH 97
crisheroes53
ArmadaUGS38
Trikslyr32
FunKaTv 22
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream13919
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream5182
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 19
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 29
• Adnapsc2 12
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 15
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2845
League of Legends
• Nemesis7333
Upcoming Events
Cheesadelphia
1h 13m
CSO Cup
3h 13m
BSL: ProLeague
4h 13m
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
GSL Code S
18h 13m
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 13m
WardiTV Qualifier
1d 2h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 4h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Wardi Open
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-11
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.