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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
My top 3 right now are Req, Jeff, and Asmo, in that order. Coma has fallen down that list a bit, but mostly because others have come up as more scummy. All three of the ones I've listed I have already explained. Pretending you have the key to anything is hilarious. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 15 2014 23:17 WaveofShadow wrote: Where's your stuff on Asmo and coma? I read your little vote business on Jeff but all it really comes down to is you think he's scummy because he votes the person who looks worse than him. Something you could arguably be doing right now. My stuff on Asmo is in the entire post I made addressing his second case post on me. Coma was a weak read on my part, and I haven't done any super in depth analysis on him since because there are others I find more scummy. The difference between me and Jeff is that I've been actually trying to find scum. I tried to push Req, no one else is having it. I'm accepting that town is just giving Req a free pass (although I vehemently disagree with it) and voting Jeff, who I have determined scummy. Jeff is sitting there going "uhh... no it's not me it's that other guy". He doesn't care who it is, as long as it's not him. He did it with MB D1, he's doing it with me now. I'm in meetings until this afternoon. I'm done with you being completely fixated on things despite me being very open this entire day and appeasing your ridiculous attitude. You have chastised me for tunneling MB so hard and not changing my read on him D1. You are doing the exact same thing to me now, even though I've been FAR more productive and open than MB ever was. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 02:31 WaveofShadow wrote: Like what WAS with all the greenfont shit? And why does he feel the need to point out the extremely obvious, that there is a bus going on (unless both soniv/Jeff are town and the scum are in the rest of lurk city, or we've been massively fooled by, say, himself or ketchup). I think a lot of us have actually let Alaric skate by on early towncred without looking into him in a long time. Either that or the quiet is making me paranoid. I hate being in charge of lynches. Good practice though. I'm having the same misgivings about that post. I've had a super town read on him all game, but that one post is worrying. Also, could you explain what you meant by having the key to my survival? That also concerns me (rightfully so). Wave, could you explain this bolded part: On October 15 2014 23:08 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh hmm I just ignored all that green shit. Yeah at this point of you're claiming then out with it. If not, whatever. Soniv, still waiting on dem reads from yesterday. Time is ticking and very few people other than me have the key to your salvation. Why do you have a key (assuming you mean your vote) that only a few people have? What I would like to hear from everyone still voting me - after this entire D2, what is it that makes all of you think I'm scum? Because a lot of what I'm reading seems to be people starting with the assumption that I'm scum to make imaginary associations and assume that information will be gained about other scum because they've already assumed I'm scum. I could understand this viewpoint coming out of D1/N1, but I can't fathom how people can still see me as scum after this entire day. This was the answer that Jeff gave to the question I asked him: On October 15 2014 11:56 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Req has little to no connection with me, so lynching me has no impact on how he flips. You pursued him closely, but never really gained traction for it. Despite this lack of traction, you still made a push for it. If you flip red he's finally essentially proven townie and will sort out this whole mess with him. If you flip green, I think everyone would be ok with a Req lynch (or at least force his potential blue role). I think if you flip red Alzadar is also under a lot of consideration. When you flip red you'll also finally prove me innocent, something that nothing else but my own death will do (since Wave and Ketchup are pretty damn town). My point is that you have a connection with many more players than I do. Other than passing exchanges, right now I really only have significant connections with you, Wave, and Ketchup, and we know most about those people. You're the only real question mark tied with me, and maybe Coma is as well. So, the fact that I have made connections with people while Jeff has made very few actually makes me look more scummy because it potentially could create more information if I were to turn up red. This doesn't make any sense. I'd also like to point out that Req has still been completely absent since all of you have accepted his shitty play. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Yes Asmo, it means doing this is also a way for me to keep tabs on you. You've made a good case on Soniv which makes a red flip more likely, but if he flips green you'll have been at the foundation of two mislynches in a row, both started right after you got pressured. If Soniv flips red win for us, if he flips green I'll have my next target (and don't even think about switching your vote upon reading that). The fact that Asmo made two cases on me does not make me more likely to flip red. It just means that he's convinced you that there's somehow more information to be gained from my lynch. On October 16 2014 02:49 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Soniv, you're missing the point with the connections thing. It's not that it makes you look more scummy. You already look scummy and I didn't have to prove that. I was telling you how we learn the most out of anyone (by far!) by your death here. ...because I've been trying to be productive and talk and accuse and press people, while you've been sitting there doing shit all except pointing at whoever is on the chopping block other than you? You have made very few connections to other players (you even said it yourself), and so naturally there would be less to learn. People are trying to lynch me for information rather than lynching me because they actually think I'm scum, and that's real stupid. @Wave - Ok, I understand. And you probably could swing the vote back onto me if you really wanted to. But I'm really hoping that you're starting to see that lynching me is not the correct move. I also understand why you and everyone else is just letting Req do whatever the fuck he wants, but here's the thing - I know both you and I hate meta reads/cases, but that's exactly what you're doing. It's not a mafia meta, but it's a posting meta. And I have always maintained (and told you such) that if someone is aware enough of a player's meta, then that player would be able to take advantage of that. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 03:34 Alaric wrote: Soniv: + Show Spoiler + About the key thing, this is how I view it (from reading today's filters only): - before Ghandi switched and I voted, it was 6-5 for you. A tie would be against Ghandi I think, haven't checked hard, but iirc owb has the oldest post, and he isn't likely to switch, so for you to die people needed to switch. ComaDose certainly won't because he seems convinced that killing Ghandi will somehow clear him (and I think however Ghandi flips there are strong arguments against him either way, part of why I don't think lynching Ghandi will produce much), Cixah and ketchup don't look like they would either (ketchup offered a hand but I dunno how firm he is). That means that Wave, because he tends to be listened to, and because he's one of the rare people not completely set yet, has the power to either force a tie or break it (even more so had he known I'd vote against you, that was 6-6 but Ghandi switched while I typed). As for lynching you, sure there's a risk you'll flip green. But not only do I think it's a tiny risk, we also stand to gain much more from your flipping (whether red or green, already said I'm coming for Asmo if you flip green myself) than Ghandi's. Both your posting has been a bit poor today, but I could easily attribute that to both of you being in a kinda deadlock for more of the day; and if given more liberty, I'm much more afraid of you leading us astray than I'd be of Ghandi. Even if he's scum he doesn't push us toward wrong lynches (that pretty much everyone ignores him doesn't help). As of now we can't know which one of you is red, or if you aren't even both red (I don't see it as likely but it's not impossible), but I'm pretty damn sure one of you has to be scum, and your flip will give us more stuff to catch the remaining 2-3. Add to that that I won't be around for the deadline in case of last minute shenanigans/twist (if you want to claim do it in the next 4 hours), and that I didn't think the situation could change (I'll admit I'm wrong, the new mordek wagon proved that with a perfect timing, uh), and I didn't see the point to fish for "maybe scum" instead of "very probably scum + info on the others". If you give me a better lynch? I'll bow, and I'll switch to that. But my reasoning was (and still is, unless twists like a mordek slip or something) that it's between Ghandi and you tonight, and that you are the "better" lynch. I'm so confused how you think my posting has been bad today. You had a town read on me D1, and my posting was so much worse D1, and I'm happy to be the first to admit that. Once again, I'm feeling like my entire play today has been largely ignored. I have tried to hand you guys a better lynch, and it was completely passed off as everyone giving Req a pass for being Req. I also now believe that Jeff is scum (something I did not think was true D1), and I've tried to push him as well. Is this going to be the theme of the game? Every day it's going to be Jeff vs. someone that ends up flipping town, only to continue it on the next day? You think you're going to get information from my flip, but all you'll find out is how god damn wrong you've been and how much time you've all wasted. On October 16 2014 03:31 mordek wrote: I like how Soniv dodged the claim or your getting lynched questions too. Admittedly he could be in meetings but let's not forget. ? What did I dodge? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 03:57 mordek wrote: That was probably a dramatic way of putting it but Wave said you're going to need to claim or make a big play  Are you talking about this? On October 16 2014 02:12 WaveofShadow wrote: If either you or soniv is 3P I suggest you claim. To which I did not respond because I'm not 3P. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 04:42 ketchup wrote: I've repeatedly asked ghandi on how he sees himself helping town, but he has yet to respond. He's more interested in equivocating my posting to his, which is just categorically untrue. He has never been interested in working with a town agenda, only serving his self interest. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 04:44 WaveofShadow wrote: That it would be good scumplay. If they're both scum they have had no choice basically all day. If we were both scum, don't you think there would be more people than just ketchup interested in pressuring Req? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
There would be at least one other person in the thread interested in pushing it, right? Let's assume Req is town (because this is your viewpoint). And let's assume 3 scum (that seemed to be a reasonable conclusion that we arrived at +1 3p). That means that if both Jeff and I were scum, there would be one other person in the thread on our team. This day has been the Soniv and Jeff show from the start, so would it not follow that the scum team would want to be coordinated early on to get the votes somewhere else? Ketchup and I were really the only ones pushing Req, so does that mean you think ketchup is scum? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 04:59 WaveofShadow wrote: What? If you're both scum then if I were the third scum the absolute last thing I would ever do is be caught trying to push somewhere else. That's terrible. At this point, yes, it would be awful. But when I had started pressuring Req, almost everyone, except for ketchup - who started pressuring Req first - wrote it off as Req being Req. Early in the day, it was not locked in that it would be me and Jeff, there was still plenty of time for things to go other ways, but your thickheadedness the entire day has kept it locked right in place. On October 16 2014 04:46 WaveofShadow wrote: You both need to stop posting defenses and attacks of each other at this point. Right now one of you is dead and we don't know which. If you're town then what you want to do is leave behind something that will help us win the game (because you can still win after you're dead). You have 4h. I absolutely disagree that I should stop defending myself. If I get lynched, when I flip town there is more than enough in my posting history for people to work off of. I will not stop defending myself (and it's hilarious that I have to say this because there have been posts of "soniv isn't defending himself enough"). I have read "if soniv flips scum, then jeff looks bad because soniv avoided him D1". And I have read "if soniv flips town, then jeff looks bad because of the bandwagon on soniv". So why isn't the lynch going on someone who actually has a better chance of flipping scum. On October 16 2014 05:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Soniv did you claim VT? I have claimed nothing. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 05:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Do you think the Req wagon was scum trying to deflect and when it didn't gain traction they moved back accordingly? When you say this, are you saying "scum [soniv]" or "scum [team]". If you are saying the former, then disregard. If the latter, then you need to answer what I said before - do you think ketchup is scum then? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 05:31 WaveofShadow wrote: It's the latter, and as of now I don't think so. ...what? You're saying the latter, that the scum team was trying to push onto Req, but you don't think ketchup (the only other person pushing with me) is scum. Which would mean you're actually saying the former? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 05:35 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not saying anything, it was a question. It's a question you wanted answers from the thread on, but your question is conflicting. ^ | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 05:38 WaveofShadow wrote: I know exactly what I asked and why I asked it. mmk... whatever, I'll drop it | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 06:02 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Noticed which part? that coma disappeared | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
"But Soniv, why didn't you claim earlier?!" I was hoping that I would be able to talk you guys into putting your pitchforks down, and I was still pretty confident I could up until recently. As the Parity Cop, it is imperative that I make it through N2 without being roleblocked or killed. The longer I go without claiming, the longer scum goes without knowing what I am, and I was really hoping I would not have to claim. But for a town that bitched and moaned that Wave was trying to take control at the start of the game, you sure have been happy to let him lead your crosshairs. I crumbed my N1 target, and earlier today I crumbed my intended target tonight. (both parts bolded in the below posts) On October 14 2014 07:50 jcarlsoniv wrote: Y'know, I come out of Alzadar's filter actually thinking he's more townie. There were some posts I remember that I thought were surely scum leaning, that register to me differently this time around. Example: First time around, the first part of the post seemed odd and sheepish to me - reflecting what I said earlier about him saying things to satisfy the thread. But before this post, he put Wave at probably town, and so this reads more as someone who is collaborating with someone he kinda sorta might trust a little bit. Also, the second part exemplifies another quality of his general posting. He's been talking about setup stuff here and there (a fair amount of it earlier on), and usually it's not very productive or helpful and often distracts town. But rereading, he asks coherent questions that apply to the game flow, they show that he's invested in the goings on and is paying attention (despite backwards canadiansgiving). His filter comes off with more of a town vibe than I expected it to. It did remind me of two things as well. 1. The IC claim was at a really weird time. That's right, I'm lookin' at you 6ah. I really hope that confirmation comes through or D2 is going to be very boring lol. 2. I want to take a look at Ket Chup. He's someone who I haven't really noticed even though I know he's been posting quite a bit. He will probably be my next focus. the mistress On October 15 2014 07:20 jcarlsoniv wrote: at least someone is coming to their senses When I think someone is town, I say that they're town. When I think someone is scum, I say that they're scum. There's no use in me stating that I have null reads on all of these scummy as fuck lurkers, just as you do. I have already said that my town reads are you, ketchup, 6ah (obviously), Alaric, and probably Alz. You know my biggest current scum read right now is Req, and somewhat lesser than that is Coma. I thought you were on to something with Asmo until he made his case on me; now I'm not so sure. The rest are a bunch of god damn lurkers that I don't know how to get a read on. I'll probably put my eye to one tonight to try and glean any semblance of usefulness. This whole thread feels like town yelling at each other for the most part while a bunch of people are watching. There's my stupid fucking list post, all of my reads can be found in the thread, as I know for a fact that I've said them all. Speaking of scummy as fuck lurkers...Jeff, where the fuck are you Now, Wave, instead of tunneling me as hard as you did, you probably should have actually read my posts instead of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LA LA LA YOU'RE SCUM" - you might have noticed what I am. But at this point, you're either retarded or malicious, and I'm honestly leaning towards the former. Either way, you can suck my dick. There are two hours left. Now get your god damn fucking votes off me. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 06:57 ketchup wrote: Soniv, I tried. I know you did, and I greatly appreciate it. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 06:57 Cixah wrote: Why make your N1 check me then? No brainer. Parity returns "same" or "different". You claimed IC, so come D2, I would 100% know what your alignment was. You actually put me in a really good position. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 16 2014 07:02 Cixah wrote: The only problem I see with this situation is if Scum DO have a roleblocker and Ketchup's post from way back at the start of D2 is true that he got roleblocked. If you claim roleblocked you realize what will happen right? It doesn't fucking matter. I'll either die tonight or I'll be roleblocked. And if neither happens, then I get a check off. I'm now in a fairly helpless position because my hand was forced. | ||
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