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On July 30 2014 08:09 kushm4sta wrote:
HF, i like the reasons why you are calling vivax scum, but I don't think those reasons apply to vivax. It scares me about your alignment because it's like you know what makes someone scummy but you are misapplying it.
Set up talk is bad? I'd say it's not alignment indicative usually, but I think there is an optimal way to play this setup and if discussion can bring us towards that, it is productive and protown.
So you think the point I made that SlOosh's entrance was disruptive to the purpose of finding townies and finding a general direction to work into was scummy?
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I picked SlOosh's post cause it interfered with my intent and was after all, a post that might or might not tell me he's scumreading me. It was one of those posts that have the potential to cause chaos while you try to get a productive discussion going, and people making those posts can say it was meant seriously or as a joke afterwards, whatever they prefer and is most comfortable for them in the moment they have to explain it.
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On July 30 2014 08:15 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 08:09 kushm4sta wrote:
HF, i like the reasons why you are calling vivax scum, but I don't think those reasons apply to vivax. It scares me about your alignment because it's like you know what makes someone scummy but you are misapplying it.
Set up talk is bad? I'd say it's not alignment indicative usually, but I think there is an optimal way to play this setup and if discussion can bring us towards that, it is productive and protown.
How do those 2 go together? If you like the reasons then surely that means they are accurate and not misapplied? Why do they not apply to vivax?
It's pretty simple to explain actually, he thinks you're using sound reason to scumread somebody, but he doesn't think that those reasons apply to me. Further explanation doesn't seem necessary since in theory you should be more capable of understand english than me.
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Does anybody disagree with townreading Obi already?
I'm especially interested into hearing SlOosh's and HF's opinion on this.
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Marv why don't you care about our dispute?
Do you think we're both town?
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On July 30 2014 08:32 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 08:25 kushm4sta wrote:On July 30 2014 07:57 Holyflare wrote:On July 30 2014 07:54 kushm4sta wrote:On July 30 2014 07:46 Holyflare wrote:On July 30 2014 07:42 Vivax wrote:
I'm saying that you didn't give a satisfactory answer as to how sure you are about me being scum just based on my former reasoning.
Do you have the guts? I think you're confusing guts with being retarded. You yourself agreed with my complaint about games degrading and not being analytical but the moment i start with analysis why do you try and sidetrack that instead of just refuting what i said and in fact avoiding any real analysis with some useless "do you have the guts question"? Very bad vivax um ok so first vivax is too tryhard, must be scum.. now vivax is sidetracking analysis? those seem like contradictory points. Furthermore I would not describe vivax's play as either of those things. No. Selectively picking out something and making it seem like it's different and then writing a longer paragraph than needed on it = try hard. Scummy. Vivax then sidetracks MY analysis on his post to a silly question which he would know there's only one real answer to. Scummy. Then he keeps talking about dueling me tomorrow instead of discussing why something is wrong ot right or why specifically he picked sloosh out of 3 people that posted similarly. Scummy. HF case on vivax: 1. tryhard "longer paragraph" on sloosh's fake duel
it wasn't even near a paragraph. Vivax looks like he was just doing his due diligence pressuring earlygame derp. plus your statement that it was the same as ritoky is not true, because fake dueling is closer to something very harmful to town like fake claiming. ritoky just said random shit. 2. he keeps talking about dueling you tomorrow/sidetracking analysis
he mentioned dueling you only once in a very indirect way. how is he sidetracking analysis when all he did was answer your joke with another short joke.. you say : how much do you scumread me? he says : 5 much you say : do you have the guts to duel me that is sidetracking analysis?? The first sentence has already taken the edge away from the original analysis thus sidetracked it by not answering it and instead asking another question that has a more than obvious response for 30 minutes into a game. Fake duelling is so troll it's obvious and incomparable to fake claiming. Vivax posted why now and it's acceptable though so I'll just let him carry on because if he is mafia he won't be able to keep it up.
I already posted the why in the very same post you attacked...
this joke has the potential to polarize and stir chaos and somehow doesn't fit into the zen picture of a constructive town.
Then I explained it...
I picked SlOosh's post cause it interfered with my intent and was after all, a post that might or might not tell me he's scumreading me. It was one of those posts that have the potential to cause chaos while you try to get a productive discussion going, and people making those posts can say it was meant seriously or as a joke afterwards, whatever they prefer and is most comfortable for them in the moment they have to explain it.
On July 30 2014 07:34 Holyflare wrote:
Other joke posts/not caring posts from me and ritoky and you pick out sloosh who is doing the same thing and write a big paragraph explaining it. Reeks of too mafia try hard.
When it was obvious from what I said initially that I found that joke post specifically to be scummy, since the others were fairly neutral.
Instead of going and asking me why I picked out that post, you instantly try to say my play was tryhard mafia motivated, which seems to be the central point of your case, and not the point that you didn't know why I picked that post, cause that would have been solved by a simple question.
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Whatever I shouldn't waste time arguing with scum. This can only be solved during the day.
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On July 30 2014 09:20 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 09:11 Vivax wrote:
Whatever I shouldn't waste time arguing with scum. This can only be solved during the day. I'm not really arguing. Your first post is fluffy for the time it was stated as people were doing similar things. Your second post is articulated why specifically sloosh's post relates to your fluffy post. Which makes sense. Hence why i said what i said. Palmar you played with ritoky in cell and he's pretty similar or do you not remember freedom joking?
Yea but then why use the argument that I wrote a mafia tryhard post instead of asking me why I picked SlOosh out of all posts?
By telling me I wrote a mafia tryhard post you didn't leave room for explanation, you already made a decision public with a point I couldn't argue against, cause what am I supposed to argue against when you say I'm mafia tryharding.
Now you leave room for explanation, putting it as if your main point was my preference for SlOosh, when it clearly wasn't. That's cause you got wobbly knees when faced with a duel.
That scenario was:
V:"Are you certain I'm scum?"
HF: "*insert troll answer here*"
V: "Would you duel me?" (translation for: Are you this certain?)
HF: "Oh look you're sidetracking, scummy scummy, no I'm not certain 30 minutes in the game obviously"
As said, if your main point of interest was my interest into SlOosh, a simple question would have been the townie way of doing it. But it wasn't. And even now that you act satisfied you still have some points you shouldn't be satisfied with, given that your case ended up having more points than just your initial one.
At some point I gotta stop cause I have the feeling there will never be a last word with you, though.
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On July 30 2014 09:32 Holyflare wrote:
Vivax it's just that i lost interest after you answered. Nothing more. I've made cases like that all the time at the start of a game.
What do you mean with "cases like that".
What category does your case fall into that I don't know of.
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Obi just don't answer him, please. He will pull you into a cluttering vortex of pointless questions cause a blind guy would see you're town in this game.
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On July 30 2014 10:01 Holyflare wrote:
Vivax why have you dropped everything about me and only return to make snide comments about how not to respond to me and how obvious town cav is? Lots of other stuff to talk about.
Nothing has been dropped, my points still stand, I'll make em public more concisely when it matters.
I wanted to make a massive post talking to you and how I'm sorry you had to roll scum AGAIN, and how you don't stand a chance in this setup, but then I deleted it and went kinda into lurk mode since, soon sleep. Don't really want to spam the thread with the back and forth that can potentially be endless if I'm correct with my read on you.
Currently I went into antivirus mode and am about to put you into quarantine, will try to delete you at some point if the technical support agrees that it's the best step. Malware should not be executed over and over since it might end up causing an overflow. Wow, such leet.
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On July 30 2014 08:26 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 08:14 Vivax wrote:
I picked SlOosh's post cause it interfered with my intent and was after all, a post that might or might not tell me he's scumreading me. It was one of those posts that have the potential to cause chaos while you try to get a productive discussion going, and people making those posts can say it was meant seriously or as a joke afterwards, whatever they prefer and is most comfortable for them in the moment they have to explain it. Understandable. I found it ludicrous that you would accuse me of "polarizing and stirring chaos" off a duel post, especially since it was just established a couple posts back that it was night time and duels don't happen until day cycle begins. Furthermore, I don't see how what you were doing was necessarily a clear cut way of "making a town circle", because, let's face it, scum can setup spec with the best of them, so I question just how productive your discussions were that you could claim that I was being that much more unproductive. I find it disconcerting that you are throwing mud on HolyFlare in a not-straightforward manner. How scummy do you find him?
Kush what do you think of this post if you compare it with the stuff I actually wrote?
Regarding "ludicrous": I adressed his post as being a joke post, making clear I was aware that he couldn't duel me. Nevertheless I still explained rationally why I didn't like it.
Regarding "town circle": I don't feel like I was acting like scum setup speccing, my intent was another, as stated.
Regarding "mud-throwing": Didn't I explain everything I found bad about HF's way of accusing me? Wasn't I straight forward when I said I would duel him?
I feel like this guy and HF have only been trying to paint all the stuff I've done in the worst light possible, so I need third party opinions.
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On July 30 2014 10:42 batsnacks wrote:
I haven't read the thread yet but, hypothetically speaking, if I were to cop who should I check tonight?
Low activity, scummy looking guys are my preference usually. "Lynch bait". If I were cop, I'd start with somebody like you, assuming I'd find you scummy. Like I checked Damdred instead of chopin last game, cause I kinda thought that if they're active they're also easier to figure out on the long term.
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On July 30 2014 11:12 batsnacks wrote:
Actually, no, Vivax. You don't get to do that. I asked for advice and you gave me some random anecdote about some other game. You didn't even address my question. Are you so wrapped up in arguing with Holyflare that you can't answer a simple question directly?
Someone is going to have to race me when the selection period begins if they don't want us dueling. Like, they better get there within 5 minutes.
Who the hell cares, you probably aren't even the cop.
Acting all pseudo-insulted about something this pointless.
I got more experience at this game than you and an innate ability to bleed town so if you really want to force town to kill you go ahead.
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On July 30 2014 21:16 Holyflare wrote:
All these ppl checking in with 1 or 2 sentences. Goodkarma, yamato, sinani (claimed mafia too), rayn for awful list post criticising read list are probably mafia.
I like this idea.
Ritoky can strap himself to them for all I care.
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If I were to make an early call on Damdred I'd say that he looks like he always did and thus probably town , with a style that makes him somehow suspicious for TL standards for some reason. Not confident enough in giving a definite read but I wouldn't call him scummy.
Not so sure about Jat cause he sees scummy things where I wouldn't expect them, Obi first, now Damdred and I'd like to hear more of his reasoning since his conclusions seem so much different from mine.
Could be indicative of him not knowing what to do while trying to stay active as scum since he stopped talking about setup stuff, so he kind of looks for scum in places where townies already put a checkmark in a box, I happened to do that as scum and then ended up harvesting wtfs for scumreading people everyone else is townreading.
I'm just putting this out there cause I don't feel confident in scumreading jat just for this, I think it is noteworthy and am curious about the responses.
Next topic, since SlOosh wondered for what reasons I scumread HF:
HF is a very aggressive scum player and I was amazed at how many cases he was able to crank out in GSL I think, where he carried us to victory while smurfing. I was like "Wow how do you manage to make up so much bullshit about people". "Just gotta find the scum motives in plays".
Key to reading him is following: If he only posts stuff that only takes account of scum motives, and tries to paint things in the worst light possible, and doesn't try to clear townies on the way, he's likely scum. Forget activity, forget insecurity, these are not criteria for reading him.
So the reason I called him scum was precisely cause he didn't just try to figure me out, he called me mafia and said that my post must have been scum motivated, way too early in the day, later he backtracked saying that for him the point was all about me picking the SlOosh post, and suddenly he was fine.
This doesn't make sense cause even then, all the points about me sidetracking, and the post looking scum tryhard, should still stand for him regardless of me picking SlOosh's post.
So HF can definitely be one of the scum we're looking for. But currently I'm not willing to talk to him cause I don't want this thread to become unreadable.
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On July 30 2014 22:46 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 22:36 Vivax wrote:
If I were to make an early call on Damdred I'd say that he looks like he always did and thus probably town , with a style that makes him somehow suspicious for TL standards for some reason. Not confident enough in giving a definite read but I wouldn't call him scummy.
Not so sure about Jat cause he sees scummy things where I wouldn't expect them, Obi first, now Damdred and I'd like to hear more of his reasoning since his conclusions seem so much different from mine.
Could be indicative of him not knowing what to do while trying to stay active as scum since he stopped talking about setup stuff, so he kind of looks for scum in places where townies already put a checkmark in a box, I happened to do that as scum and then ended up harvesting wtfs for scumreading people everyone else is townreading.
I'm just putting this out there cause I don't feel confident in scumreading jat just for this, I think it is noteworthy and am curious about the responses.
Next topic, since SlOosh wondered for what reasons I scumread HF:
HF is a very aggressive scum player and I was amazed at how many cases he was able to crank out in GSL I think, where he carried us to victory while smurfing. I was like "Wow how do you manage to make up so much bullshit about people". "Just gotta find the scum motives in plays".
Key to reading him is following: If he only posts stuff that only takes account of scum motives, and tries to paint things in the worst light possible, and doesn't try to clear townies on the way, he's likely scum. Forget activity, forget insecurity, these are not criteria for reading him.
So the reason I called him scum was precisely cause he didn't just try to figure me out, he called me mafia and said that my post must have been scum motivated, way too early in the day, later he backtracked saying that for him the point was all about me picking the SlOosh post, and suddenly he was fine.
This doesn't make sense cause even then, all the points about me sidetracking, and the post looking scum tryhard, should still stand for him regardless of me picking SlOosh's post.
So HF can definitely be one of the scum we're looking for. But currently I'm not willing to talk to him cause I don't want this thread to become unreadable. Please tell me in detail how you are able to put a checkmark in the damdred = town box. I am listening. I already said why I don't like his posts. He doesn't seem to be saying anything of value - posting for the sake of posting. Looks like a new scum player that doesn't know what to do and how to insert himself in the thread. If that is what he does as town then we will have to wait what he does next but I don't see how you anyone could townread him for the posts he made so far. I really don't. I stand by my Obi observation btw. although he seems pretty towny lately.
I am not able to put that checkmark confidently, but I'm not able to scumread him either cause I don't feel the posts he made are just there to make him look like he's talking. He posted stuff he seems to care about, and even though it can be summarized as 1. setup opinion, 2. opinion on me and HF, 3. opinion on Obi and 4. telling batsnacks to calm down, I have the feeling that those are simply the topics he's caring and interested about and not just some scum trying to look like he's active.
That said I'd tentatively lean town on Damdred.
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I also want to add that the fact HF seemed like he was trying to look for scum in Obi and Palmar made me even more suspicious, which is why I told Obi not to reply to him.
Scum don't want people to identify each other as townies and look at the pool of people remaining to find scum.
So basically when somebody looks townie and wants to scumhunt, scum play will be to attack these townies, direct their attention onto another townie, and onto themselves. This is the agenda I feel HF was pursuing, also with his attack on me.
While I'm busy talking to him and it ends up spamming the thread with something that over time becomes kinda uninteresting cause it's so omnipresent, I can't look at other people, and other people might end up not looking at him, and it puts me on the backfoot and forces me to talk about myself which is quite useless since I'm not in a duel and am town, yet I was forced to when faced with his bogus accusations.
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Since we're in the mood for list posts here's mine:
Scummy: HF, Rayn.
Could be scum but not confident yet: SlOosh, Jat.
Could be scum but how can I tell cause he's not playing: Yamato, sinani. MM1, fuba, goodkarma
Batpoop insane, don't know how to read that: Batsnacks
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Also I ask explicitly to not be protected even if you correctly read me as supertown. Protect Palmar who seems to have rolled town and to give enough fucks to be useful early, and is almost always amusingly an early NK.
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EPT
