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On July 25 2014 20:32 Xatalos wrote:
I think the fact that I easily gathered 5+ votes, same with Navillus, but it was impossible for ObiWan, might make it more likely that he's actually scum.
Assume for a moment that ObiWan can be town, too. Why would scum want to lynch him over Navi when either choice doesn't hurt them at all.
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On July 25 2014 20:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 20:32 Xatalos wrote:
I think the fact that I easily gathered 5+ votes, same with Navillus, but it was impossible for ObiWan, might make it more likely that he's actually scum. Assume for a moment that ObiWan can be town, too. Why would scum want to lynch him over Navi when either choice doesn't hurt them at all.
I'm reading along. Not exactly sure what you're asking here. Obiwan wagon came before Navillus and never got more than 3 votes, Navillus ended with 8.
Chopin
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On July 25 2014 20:32 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 20:21 Xatalos wrote:
I think I'm leaning town on Teemursu. He's been pretty active, pushing his reads, getting attention. Not a position that scum would usually assume.
Damdred is slightly scum / null. I wouldn't mind seeing him dead, but I'm not confident enough that I would bet the victory on him being scum. Btw he was pretty passive around the lynch too. He asked me some questions, I answered, he never really followed up. Then he just.... hanged around in the thread and changed his vote to Navillus when the flow of the thread changed. Would Damdred be your lynch of choice tomorrow or do you think that somebody else is scummier.
Not completely sure yet. Damdred/batsnacks/ObiWan all seem like decent choices, but not especially great. I guess it kind of comes down to process of elimination since by now since I'm leaning town at least on Haru, Koshi, Teemursu, Chopin, rayn, GB, kush, Vivax. The rest are closer to null or even slightly scummy. I'd wager that most of the scum are among the rest.
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On July 25 2014 20:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 20:32 Xatalos wrote:
I think the fact that I easily gathered 5+ votes, same with Navillus, but it was impossible for ObiWan, might make it more likely that he's actually scum. Assume for a moment that ObiWan can be town, too. Why would scum want to lynch him over Navi when either choice doesn't hurt them at all.
?
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On July 25 2014 20:37 Chopin Liszt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 20:35 Vivax wrote:On July 25 2014 20:32 Xatalos wrote:
I think the fact that I easily gathered 5+ votes, same with Navillus, but it was impossible for ObiWan, might make it more likely that he's actually scum. Assume for a moment that ObiWan can be town, too. Why would scum want to lynch him over Navi when either choice doesn't hurt them at all. I'm reading along. Not exactly sure what you're asking here. Obiwan wagon came before Navillus and never got more than 3 votes, Navillus ended with 8. Chopin
This is the lawyer I suppose.
Xatalos argument is that Obi is more likely scum cause he feels the wagon didn't gain traction so easily over navi's. I'm saying that scum can still prefer another lynch over his even if he was town, and he can't just deduce that Obi is scum just based on him not being the preferred choice.
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On July 25 2014 20:39 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 20:32 Vivax wrote:On July 25 2014 20:21 Xatalos wrote:
I think I'm leaning town on Teemursu. He's been pretty active, pushing his reads, getting attention. Not a position that scum would usually assume.
Damdred is slightly scum / null. I wouldn't mind seeing him dead, but I'm not confident enough that I would bet the victory on him being scum. Btw he was pretty passive around the lynch too. He asked me some questions, I answered, he never really followed up. Then he just.... hanged around in the thread and changed his vote to Navillus when the flow of the thread changed. Would Damdred be your lynch of choice tomorrow or do you think that somebody else is scummier. Not completely sure yet. Damdred/batsnacks/ObiWan all seem like decent choices, but not especially great. I guess it kind of comes down to process of elimination since by now since I'm leaning town at least on Haru, Koshi, Teemursu, Chopin, rayn, GB, kush, Vivax. The rest are closer to null or even slightly scummy. I'd wager that most of the scum are among the rest.
Who of the rest is scum then.
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To make that argument you'd have to find compelling reasons why Navillus was a menace to mafia, which is a tricky proposition.
Chopin
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Hm. I don't think scum would care that much which townie got lynched. At least I wouldn't care as scum.
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On July 25 2014 20:44 Chopin Liszt wrote:
To make that argument you'd have to find compelling reasons why Navillus was a menace to mafia, which is a tricky proposition.
Chopin
This is directed at Xata?
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On July 25 2014 20:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 20:39 Xatalos wrote:On July 25 2014 20:32 Vivax wrote:On July 25 2014 20:21 Xatalos wrote:
I think I'm leaning town on Teemursu. He's been pretty active, pushing his reads, getting attention. Not a position that scum would usually assume.
Damdred is slightly scum / null. I wouldn't mind seeing him dead, but I'm not confident enough that I would bet the victory on him being scum. Btw he was pretty passive around the lynch too. He asked me some questions, I answered, he never really followed up. Then he just.... hanged around in the thread and changed his vote to Navillus when the flow of the thread changed. Would Damdred be your lynch of choice tomorrow or do you think that somebody else is scummier. Not completely sure yet. Damdred/batsnacks/ObiWan all seem like decent choices, but not especially great. I guess it kind of comes down to process of elimination since by now since I'm leaning town at least on Haru, Koshi, Teemursu, Chopin, rayn, GB, kush, Vivax. The rest are closer to null or even slightly scummy. I'd wager that most of the scum are among the rest. Who of the rest is scum then.
I think lynching into Damdred/batsnacks/ObiWan would quite likely result in 1-2 scum lynches.
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On July 25 2014 20:44 Xatalos wrote:
Hm. I don't think scum would care that much which townie got lynched. At least I wouldn't care as scum.
Precisely, in a town vs town situation scum can do whatever the fuck they want, the less sense it makes from a scum perspective, the better for them.
So you can't say Obi is scummy just cause scum decided not to pile onto him instead of others, unless you can argue who of the others was a teammate they needed to save, and why Obi was the best choice.
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On July 25 2014 20:47 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 20:43 Vivax wrote:On July 25 2014 20:39 Xatalos wrote:On July 25 2014 20:32 Vivax wrote:On July 25 2014 20:21 Xatalos wrote:
I think I'm leaning town on Teemursu. He's been pretty active, pushing his reads, getting attention. Not a position that scum would usually assume.
Damdred is slightly scum / null. I wouldn't mind seeing him dead, but I'm not confident enough that I would bet the victory on him being scum. Btw he was pretty passive around the lynch too. He asked me some questions, I answered, he never really followed up. Then he just.... hanged around in the thread and changed his vote to Navillus when the flow of the thread changed. Would Damdred be your lynch of choice tomorrow or do you think that somebody else is scummier. Not completely sure yet. Damdred/batsnacks/ObiWan all seem like decent choices, but not especially great. I guess it kind of comes down to process of elimination since by now since I'm leaning town at least on Haru, Koshi, Teemursu, Chopin, rayn, GB, kush, Vivax. The rest are closer to null or even slightly scummy. I'd wager that most of the scum are among the rest. Who of the rest is scum then. I think lynching into Damdred/batsnacks/ObiWan would quite likely result in 1-2 scum lynches.
But you just said they're not the greatest lynches and scum is more likely among the rest. The rest being your townreads - these three.
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On July 23 2014 20:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 12:36 Navillus wrote:Just got here, my 2 cents on xatalos is that the list does look bad and I got the same weird feeling when he said that we shouldn't lynch kush because he's a good scum-player, especially after he posted: On July 23 2014 06:16 Xatalos wrote:On July 23 2014 06:10 Chopin Liszt wrote:On July 23 2014 06:09 Xatalos wrote:On July 23 2014 06:06 Chairman Ray wrote:The exchange between Xatalos and Koshi is the most awkward and forced conversation I have ever seen, especially this: On July 23 2014 05:41 Xatalos wrote:On July 23 2014 03:04 Koshi wrote:
Xatalos it has been a while. I am town this game. You must be so happy. Hmm. I think I want you to live longer than D1 just for the "Mafia totes alive guis" mass PM. That, and my history of reading you is horrible. I have the vague idea that someone explained your meta to me in a recent game so I'll search for that. If we had two lynches, I'd lynch them both. ##Vote: Xatalos I don't think it's a good idea to lynch either of us for D1. Generally speaking. What does this mean? Koshi can look scummy during D1 as town so it's not usually a good time to lynch him. I'm generally active regardless of my alignment, and I become a (somewhat) valuable asset throughout the game as town and I tend to reveal myself more easily later on as scum (+leaving material to work with). Neither of us are ideal D1 lynches. so people who will reveal themselves early shouldn't be lynched D1 and people who won't reveal themselves early shouldn't be lynched D1? That doesn't make sense and looks scummy to me because it sounds like forced reasons to lynch or not lynch. Also posting a list where like half the entries are saying nothing looks like an attempt to just generate content so for that I feel comfortable to ##Vote XatalosAside from him I'm very happy that Chopinliszt stopped with that rhyming stuff but I would put them much higher on my list of who to lynch this game unless they post as much as two other players would, it's going to be way too difficult to get a read if we have a small amount of content half from one person half another. 1) Doesn't try to hide in this post. 2) Give his reads/thoughts freely on the game. Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 12:41 Navillus wrote:
Re: Damdred I don't see anything particularly odd. His long post on Xatalos is the only thing that I would see as maybe indicative, I think often scum make long posts picking out a lot of pretty small stuff so they can look like they're contributing, but right now there's not much substantial to go on and xatalos has felt off to me with his pretty early defensiveness of other players. I don't see any reason to think Damdred is scum at the moment. 1) Doesn't try to hide in this post. 2) Give his reads/thoughts freely on the game. Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 12:54 Navillus wrote:On July 23 2014 12:47 kushm4sta wrote:
fuck no voting thread.. now i can't ninja vote
##vote harurh
reasons? Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 12:55 Navillus wrote:
any reason that harurh is the placeholder? Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 13:29 Navillus wrote:
vayne you have a reason separate from what kush said? Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 16:12 Navillus wrote:
Teemursu unrelated to the content could you just try to consolidate your posts a bit more, it just makes things more readable.
On other notes, I hadn't noticed that post by Palmar which is definitely a problem post, I also would really like for vayne to explain the Haru vote.
Obi and temmursu what do you think of xatalos, damdred and kush? Asking questions is not scummy if you first provided your own opinion in the thread. It's called scumhunting. So what that he made 3 questionsi n seperate posts and then made 3 more questions in a new post. He also asked to consolidate in the last post so maybe therefore he is putting everything in 1 post. Who the fuck knows? It isn't scummy. Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 18:13 Navillus wrote:Teem if If you're asking me what that post said about chopin I'm saying I want extra content out of the hydra because it's going to be a bitch to try to mix reads of two people and I will push their lynch if them being a hydra prevents me from getting a clear read on them. Palmar your post was a problem not a reason to lynch because you posted an intention, if you had followed through that would have made you look a lot scummier to me. I didn't threaten to lynch because it's one post that's not very readable with a day+ to go, I seriously doubt you would have considered that a plausible threat and I wouldn't have followed through without more scum-reads, I'm not gonna vote or threaten to vote everyone that I might like to be more active. Anyway I already posted my read of xatalos and since he hasn't posted anything since then that hasn't changed. On the other hand I just reread kush and for the second or third time and I am really getting a weird (read scummy) vibe off him. He defends xatalos multiple times from people posting reads very similar to what I got on my first read-through. + Show Spoiler [Weird Defenses] +On July 23 2014 08:29 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 07:58 GlowingBear wrote:
Particular focus to what he said about kush " I think he's quite a good scum player so I'd rather see until later to judge him".
He is a good player as scum, so, let him live, guys. I don't get this logic.
While saying that a lot of people needs time because he can't judge now, suddenly, damdred can be lynched because of his gut feelings. Contradictory.
I don't get why you don't like the logic in the first post. What would you do, automatically scumread me? the second point is a misrepresentation. xatalos' read on damdred seems no where near strong enough that he wants to lynch him. he was identifying some gut feelings, which we all have. so what's wrong with that? On July 23 2014 09:57 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 08:55 GlowingBear wrote:On July 23 2014 08:29 kushm4sta wrote:On July 23 2014 07:58 GlowingBear wrote:
Particular focus to what he said about kush " I think he's quite a good scum player so I'd rather see until later to judge him".
He is a good player as scum, so, let him live, guys. I don't get this logic.
While saying that a lot of people needs time because he can't judge now, suddenly, damdred can be lynched because of his gut feelings. Contradictory.
I don't get why you don't like the logic in the first post. What would you do, automatically scumread me? the second point is a misrepresentation. xatalos' read on damdred seems no where near strong enough that he wants to lynch him. he was identifying some gut feelings, which we all have. so what's wrong with that? If I start arguing that someone is a good scum player, it means that it's almost impossible to read the guy at any point of the game. So, the consequence would be automatically lynching that guy day1, yes, and not wait to judge. Have in mind I would never suggest this. I'm just saying that the cause-consequence he brought there isn't natural IMO. No problem in have gut feelings. The problem here is that he gives free passes for people he is not sure but got scum vibes from damdred. The way he stand regarding everyone else is completely incompatible with the gut feeling he gets from damdred. hi again! are you a girl? if yes, want to be my egirlfriend, if you are over 18? we can go on edates. we both share the interest of forum mafia so I think we probably have a lot in common. first paragraph u say it's best to automatically lynch everyone you think is good scum. Should xatalos have said "he's good scum SO LET"S LYNCH HIM!" and that would have been townie? second paragraph you are essentially arguing that since he has scum feels for damdred, he should have feels for every person in the game. Why does getting feels about 1 person mean tha the should have feels on everybody? ^glowingbear brings the exact thoughts I had and kush ignores him saying that he's not making the argument to lynch good scums early but that xata's own posts would suggest that then xata contradicts himself. I thought this contradiction was weird but kush doesn't seem to notice and later just hones in on what i saw as a much less contradictory statement by haru On July 23 2014 11:40 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 11:35 HaruRH wrote:On July 23 2014 11:27 Chairman Ray wrote:On July 23 2014 11:15 GlowingBear wrote:On July 23 2014 09:57 kushm4sta wrote:On July 23 2014 08:55 GlowingBear wrote:On July 23 2014 08:29 kushm4sta wrote:On July 23 2014 07:58 GlowingBear wrote:
Particular focus to what he said about kush " I think he's quite a good scum player so I'd rather see until later to judge him".
He is a good player as scum, so, let him live, guys. I don't get this logic.
While saying that a lot of people needs time because he can't judge now, suddenly, damdred can be lynched because of his gut feelings. Contradictory.
I don't get why you don't like the logic in the first post. What would you do, automatically scumread me? the second point is a misrepresentation. xatalos' read on damdred seems no where near strong enough that he wants to lynch him. he was identifying some gut feelings, which we all have. so what's wrong with that? If I start arguing that someone is a good scum player, it means that it's almost impossible to read the guy at any point of the game. So, the consequence would be automatically lynching that guy day1, yes, and not wait to judge. Have in mind I would never suggest this. I'm just saying that the cause-consequence he brought there isn't natural IMO. No problem in have gut feelings. The problem here is that he gives free passes for people he is not sure but got scum vibes from damdred. The way he stand regarding everyone else is completely incompatible with the gut feeling he gets from damdred. hi again! are you a girl? if yes, want to be my egirlfriend, if you are over 18? we can go on edates. we both share the interest of forum mafia so I think we probably have a lot in common. first paragraph u say it's best to automatically lynch everyone you think is good scum. Should xatalos have said "he's good scum SO LET"S LYNCH HIM!" and that would have been townie? second paragraph you are essentially arguing that since he has scum feels for damdred, he should have feels for every person in the game. Why does getting feels about 1 person mean tha the should have feels on everybody? Hi! I'm male but I'd love to play the girlfriend role. Buy me stuff and maybe you'll get laid  )) It's difficult for me to be clear, I realise I have some problems with it (particularly while talking in english), I'll be objective but if it's still unclear please tell me and I'll try to clarify it again. I don't say that it's best to automatically lynch everyone who I think is good scum. I actually say that, if anyone starts a phrase with "I think he's quite a good scum player", in a mafia game, I believe that the most unnatural conclusion will be "I'll have to wait to judge him". I believe that a townie will mostly pressure the good player so he can get a better analysis. Therefore, if at early day1 I start saying that someone is a good scum player, I will automatically vote for him, because (i) I can get more information from him and (ii) it's better to lynch a good scum player than a bad scum player, although this last argument is secondary and less optimal. Not what I'm saying in the last paragraph, also. I'm saying that if he has gut feelings, I'm almost sure damdred is not the only one. There are more mafias in the game. He shouldn't consider every other player scum, but why he is considering only damdred and noone else? He used a passive stance. He would say "I never played a game with this guy before" or "I need more time to read this one". Why picking damdred only? He doesn't get scum vibes from ANY other player? Do you understand what I mean? The feeling I got from his post was "I'll be as neutral as I can with every other player so I won't be the centre of attention and so people won't OMGUS me, but I'll pick someone to start a wagon and maybe get a mislynch. But I won't do that too hard, or people will turn against me day2. Maybe saying that I have gut feelings will lead someone to build a strong case against this townie". I write too much. Another issue I have with this damdred gut read is that it doesn't fit with his no-lynch reads. He put a bunch of people on a no-lynch list because those people don't give a strong indication of alignment on day 1. This means that he's looking for really strong scumreads. However, he's scumreading damdred for hardly anything. Doesn't make a lot of sense. The only issue I have with xatalos is how he is not putting any effort into trying to scumhunt, but decides to post a liszt post (hue) anyway. He blanket reads us who he never played before as 'not lynching/can lynch', which means nothing since this is everyone. However, his reads on damdred and va reeks of 'no effort', which is usually an indicator of scum trying to blend into town and yet post stuff. wtf do you expect a few hours into the game? ^this also seems weirdly defensive to me, . Defending him isn't scummy but doing so that early and to different people with similar reads just feels too sure that he's right. On top of that he really hasn't pushed much, he voted haru which was kind of an extension of his defense of xata then he put down a placeholder vote on palmer. In fact I just looked at his votes and he literally makes no attempt to explain why he unvoted haru, trying to pull that vote off to a non-vote is really weird to me. None of this seems like serious efforts to find scum. So ##Vote: kushm4sta 1) Doesn't try to hide in this post. 2) Give his reads/thoughts freely on the game. ___________________________________________________ So why is Navillus not a good lynch: 1) He isn't hiding. 2) He gave his opinion on EVERYBODY and is actively playing. tldr: you all suck. Navillus is town.
On July 23 2014 20:39 Vivax wrote:
It's cool that your opinion differs Koshi but I don't see why you spend so much talking about townreads and mechanics and the terrible idea of vets claiming when you don't have an own scumread to push behind it that warrants you taking the wind out of other peoples sails to push your own preference.
On July 23 2014 20:40 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 20:39 Vivax wrote:
It's cool that your opinion differs Koshi but I don't see why you spend so much talking about townreads and mechanics and the terrible idea of vets claiming when you don't have an own scumread to push behind it that warrants you taking the wind out of other peoples sails to push your own preference. ##unvote
##vote: VivaxBite me.
This is where it all started.
Here do you see why I am actually gold in this game and why Vivax is trash or scum. Somewhere you would like to think Vivax wouldn't be so obnoxious right? And I keep telling you people that Vivax is a liar this game. I already gave you 3 examples. If you didn't read them, look them up. Or take my word. I don't know if he does this as town but it isn't very townie. The last point on why Vivax is scum is that he tries to trap me into saying things that prove me scum. Now this could be comming from a townie, it also sounds pretty townie to do it, but I can just feel it in my bones that it is not coming from a townie and that the true intention is to let me say something I don't want to say. It is not a trap that a scummer would fall in. It is the kind of trap that is sneaky and let's you say something that you as townie clearly aren't thinking and therefore shouldn't say. I feel like Vivax knows this while asking these trap questions. It is hard to explain. Again, can it be that town Vivax plays like this? Maybe, but I doubt it. And maybe my 4th and last point is that I know that Vivax is wrong about me. And on top of that Teemu and I are connecting so fucking hard that I can only see him be wrong on him as well. Also, so many people see that I am obvious town, why is Vivax not accepting this? Why does somebody like Vivax thinks two scummers are just pushing him like this? It just feels all to wrong to me. Too wrong to be town Vivax. Oh, and a really last point. He says so much dumb shit. My eyebrows went up with at least 5 posts of him. Maybe more. Like not this guy is town and he said something dumb. More like: "I can't believe Vivax is town and makes this post."
I will end all this with me acknowledging Vivax has a big filter and that that can be used to argument he isn't scum.
Tldr: Why Koshi is town, and has been pushing Vivax:
Koshi activilly tried to steer town away from a Navillus lynch.
Vivax bashes him for it.
Koshi votes Vivax and never let's go.
Then some other stuff happened.
But Navillus the obvious townie got lynched anyway. And Sentinel alone is to blame. I am 100% sure I would have gotten Obiwan lynched if I couldn't get more votes on Vivax within the first 10 minutes of the 20 minutes stolen from us by the host. I don't care how many votes Navillus in the end had. I tell you with 100% certainty he would not be lynched with 20 more minutes. No, I am 80% certain. It all kinda depends on how scum marv is and on how town Obiwan is I think.
I will not scream that Vivax or anybody else is confirmed town anymore by actions by this host. But let it be known that the host lynched Navillus and that he is responsible for denieing the information of a Vivax/Obiwan vote switch. I now completely calmed down. I have never been so mad in this game as I was after that lynch yesterday. I must say that I somewhere respect and am thankful to Sentinel for not modkilling me. I think I might go look for a selfban endgame. But the blind rage I felt after the lynch. And it kept going on till I went to bed. I never felt it before. Pretty epic experience now that I look back on it.
Now this game is tainted for me. Just like Noire was tainted. I still have this superupset feeling so maybe I can still care in this game. Maybe I will get shot. If scum has mercy on my soul. I am changing my TL meta from this moment on and I will try avoid making conversation posts or as I call them "game evolving posts" in the future. So don't expect small posts anymore. I might also not reply to Vivax if he keeps his shitty line of questioning up. Look at how he greeted me today. Oh well. I can't be too mad about that because I did push him like a maniac yesterday.
Vivax/VA/Xatalos/Obiwan/batsnacks
If I could shoot 5 now I think those are the ones. marv alignment can be seen after N1 or for sure after N2 simply by the fact he lynched scum and is alive. If it is D3 and marv is alive and never lynched scum. Just lynch him please.
CR I simply can't read. I don't know why.
Damdred is null but I can see him being town.
Palmar is Palmar but I can see him being town.
Somewhere if I really had to pick 3
Vivax/VA/batsnacks
I don't know why these 3.
The End?
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EBWOP. Total players - your townreads - these three.
So Palmar doesn't cringe.
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I'm not sure if I follow. Isn't it pretty natural that the scumteam would be happy to vote for me/Navillus but not for ObiWan if he, indeed, was scum?
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The rest = not my townreads
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On July 25 2014 20:45 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 20:44 Chopin Liszt wrote:
To make that argument you'd have to find compelling reasons why Navillus was a menace to mafia, which is a tricky proposition.
Chopin This is directed at Xata?
you...
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On July 25 2014 20:49 Xatalos wrote:
I'm not sure if I follow. Isn't it pretty natural that the scumteam would be happy to vote for me/Navillus but not for ObiWan if he, indeed, was scum?
Again, even if he was town he wouldn't be the best choice, or fuck knows what scum chooses to do. Yes, they wouldn't vote him if he was scum, they also wouldn't vote him if he was a shitty looking townie.
Just...use other arguments and not this for Obi being scum please.
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On July 25 2014 20:51 Chopin Liszt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 20:45 Vivax wrote:On July 25 2014 20:44 Chopin Liszt wrote:
To make that argument you'd have to find compelling reasons why Navillus was a menace to mafia, which is a tricky proposition.
Chopin This is directed at Xata? you...
I'm not saying mafia preferred navi over Obi, that's what Xata is saying in the argumentation for Obi being scummy.
So it should be directed at him.
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Koshi, I've seen Vivax as scum and it's not like the Vivax in this game.
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EPT
