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On July 16 2014 08:36 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2014 08:35 HaruRH wrote:On July 16 2014 08:31 Eden1892 wrote:
Haru, you're sure rayn is mafia yeah?
Get on this wagon with me I am ignoring you for the rest of this game You pissed me off to the extent I claimed. I am done talking to you Don't be an idiot, tell me what lynch works best with your scan strategy.
On July 16 2014 08:31 Eden1892 wrote:
Haru, you're sure rayn is mafia yeah?
Get on this wagon with me
And he tried to buddy me literally a few posts after insulting me to the degree where I refuse to play in the same game as him. I really cannot forgive him for doing this. I won't be playing any games with eden, ever.
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And I nearly snarled at glowingbear when eden pissed me off so bad.
I got so mad I couldn't think and claimed.
Nearly ruined the game for glowingbear.
Haru
07-15-2014
07:27 PM ET (US)
Im not in the mood to convince anyone, especially eden now
Take it that I failed you
Exactly what I wrote to glowingbear. I nearly gave up. I still feel sorry for doing it, even though we won because of it. but still, if things did not turn out like that, we would have been done for. Because someone antagonised me to claim out of anger. Sorry glowingbear. I'll try to make it up, I promise. not a good show for you on how to play mafia properly  I FAILED AS A SEMI SENIOR
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On July 18 2014 20:39 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 17:17 goodkarma wrote:On July 18 2014 14:53 Wile E. Coyote wrote:
I have a smurf and openly apologize for my bullshit here If you were truly sorry you would man up and accept your ban without squirreling out of it on a smurf account. Yes accept his self ban... Lol
The thing is that his self ban was clearly a part of the consideration in determining whether he should receive a game ban post-game. I'd like to see his case reconsidered if he's really intent on circumventing his own ban. Clearly some of the NSFW images he posted and his demeanor were completely inappropriate and had no place in this game. There should have been some punitive action whether it was from himself or the host.
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I have asked about this, take it to the ban list thread.
Recognizing that I am falling for the very reasons I requested the ban, I am going to head out.
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@Slam, the pic in question was a pic of Beetlejuice, you checked into the thread out of the blue right when sqrt was coming under fire so I humorously poked at you about it. I'm really not sure what about that angered you, but I'm sorry it did.
There's a lot of other stuff in there that would take a while to address; suffice to say that I did ask plenty of non-loaded questions prior to my joking prods about the scum QT, and plenty of them afterwards, as well. If you want to talk about them in more detail we can, but for the moment I'll respect your desire not to discuss it and simply agree to disagree.
Also if we're talking bans, I know I'm super late to the party, but if Slam was banned for posting NSFW images I strongly oppose that and would request that he be reinstated. It wasn't a big enough deal to warrant any punitive action and I'm kinda disappointed to hear that such action was taken -- I just wanted it to desist since I was at work at the time and panicked a little bit when stuff that would make my boss freak out popped up. Sorry if I overreacted to it in the thread.
Haru, I'm not really sure what to tell you honestly. I regret using as strong language as I used to make my point, but I stand by the point being made -- you were entirely unconvincing when you spent the whole game getting mad at people who disagreed with you and yelling at them like that was going to change their minds. You certainly dished it back before and after I made my comment. I've chalked them up to heat-of-the-moment angry insults you didn't actually mean, and I'd be happy to play another game with you. You're welcome to do what you like from here; I hope you'll accept my apology for the unnecessarily strong attack I made on you and that we can bury the hatchet. Alternatively you can stay mad if that's what you prefer. Maybe talk to Cavalinho and commiserate, he still hates my guts for... hah, pushing a lynch on him as the parity cop, how about that. That's funny.
Anyway sorry for pissing y'all off, I mean no harm and feel bad for ruining your experiences with this game.
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'Both of you are fucking terrible at this game and will never become good at this game'
This shit still rings in my head and I really don't want a repeat of such a game. By the way, it is a play I decided to make, not me being terrible at this game. So seeing this comment just made me rage. I didn't bother reading through the whole thing at that time.
'you were entirely unconvincing when you spent the whole game getting mad at people who disagreed with you and yelling at them like that was going to change their minds.'
Like I said, this was a play I chose to do. I never regretted doing this. I had to balance out glowingbear's interaction with the game - if I also interacted with the game, I am 100% sure we would be nk'ed n2. Therefore, I had to act retarded and try to smoke past d2, looking as bad as a nk as possible.
but.
you know what happened.
I just hope you realise everyone is smart enough in these mafia games to know what to do. Nobody is bullshitting for no reason - they have their own reasons. You don't just chalk everything up as 'bad play' and show them face.
I will see your future games and how you interact with others before deciding if I would like to play another game with you, but for now, to avoid me blowing myself out at d1 arguing with you in other games, I want to avoid playing any games with you. Also remember that you cannot regret doing something since it is already done.
'You certainly dished it back before and after I made my comment. I've chalked them up to heat-of-the-moment angry insults you didn't actually mean'
The insults aimed at you this game was made because you did the exact same to me and I raged. It wasn't heat of the moment.
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On July 18 2014 23:18 Wile E. Coyote wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 22:45 Eden1892 wrote:Slam we didn't kill you because of a "single scum tell." We started pushing on you and sqrt because sqrt had a bad post that looked scummy. You and sqrt both responded by utterly refusing to cooperate with anybody the rest of the phase. Y'all gave reads that made no sense, didn't bother explaining them or arguing for them despite being asked and practically begged us to mislynch you to get credibility (in fact I'm fairly certain one of you actually said as much openly in the thread!). The same argument I made at the time applies: that type of play advances a scum agenda (by centering a lot of the attention in the game on your slot, and thereby acting as a smokescreen for your teammates), and doesn't advance a town agenda (deliberately mislynching is always anti-town). Pulling from what Blazinghand said at the end of Detention Mafia: On June 11 2014 05:36 Blazinghand wrote:
Whenever you lynch someone and they flip town, you have two options. You either say that you need to re-evaluate how you make scumreads, either in general or on this guy in particular, or you say that him flipping town is acceptable. There is no other option.
So, you can say, "given the way Palmar played, I will always lynch that kind of play, and I don't care if it hits town or not, this is a policy of mine." This way, the fact that he flipped town is irrelevant, you were lynching because you're trying to deter that kind of play, or because 90% of the time it's right and this one is just in the 10%, and it's impossible to refine your reads on that 10% of failures. You're willing to lynch town, and you will use this heuristic KNOWING it will lynch town.
Or, you can say "i need to refine my heuristic. It was acceptable before, or it was acceptable in other formats of this game, or other, related games, but it didn't work this time. What can I do to be better?" This way, next time this happens you know how to identify town. Now, maybe this is perfectly fakeable by scum so you end up doing the same thing, but you are at least open to becoming better/smarter.
What's not an acceptable option is to blame Palmar for flipping town, and claim your heuristic is good because it catches scum. The fact of the matter is, whatever you did lynched a townie. You either have to admit that lynching townies sometimes is part of the plan, or you have to come up with a new plan. Maybe Palmar is an idiot and there's no way to avoid lynching him when he's town; if that's the case, say that. The heuristics that I used in lynching your slot -- "scum are significantly more likely to make posts like the one sqrt did that I called out" and "scum are significantly more likely to react in a nonconstructive way and spam the thread like Slam did" and "scum are significantly more likely to throw out reads under fire that don't make sense and refuse to explain them, like both players did" -- are, in my experience, right much more than they are wrong. I am comfortable with the success rate of my lynches and don't see a realistic option to improve them. Sometimes they're wrong and I lynch a townie anyway. Shit happens. I'm sorry you ended up on the wrong end of the noose this go-round, but I stand by the process I used in lynching you, even though in this circumstance it didn't end in the way either of us wanted it to end. It actually was one thing but you kept asking loaded questions. Loaded questions aren't scum hunting my friend.
Loaded questions are the core of scumhunting. You just need to know what to expect a townie/mafia to answer to them.
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On July 19 2014 00:31 HaruRH wrote:
'Both of you are fucking terrible at this game and will never become good at this game'
This shit still rings in my head and I really don't want a repeat of such a game. By the way, it is a play I decided to make, not me being terrible at this game. So seeing this comment just made me rage. I didn't bother reading through the whole thing at that time.
'you were entirely unconvincing when you spent the whole game getting mad at people who disagreed with you and yelling at them like that was going to change their minds.'
Like I said, this was a play I chose to do. I never regretted doing this. I had to balance out glowingbear's interaction with the game - if I also interacted with the game, I am 100% sure we would be nk'ed n2. Therefore, I had to act retarded and try to smoke past d2, looking as bad as a nk as possible.
but.
you know what happened.
I just hope you realise everyone is smart enough in these mafia games to know what to do. Nobody is bullshitting for no reason - they have their own reasons. You don't just chalk everything up as 'bad play' and show them face.
I will see your future games and how you interact with others before deciding if I would like to play another game with you, but for now, to avoid me blowing myself out at d1 arguing with you in other games, I want to avoid playing any games with you. Also remember that you cannot regret doing something since it is already done.
'You certainly dished it back before and after I made my comment. I've chalked them up to heat-of-the-moment angry insults you didn't actually mean'
The insults aimed at you this game was made because you did the exact same to me and I raged. It wasn't heat of the moment.
The bolded part is not really the way to play Haru.
If you/GB looked town the would have been even more easier for the town. 
If people who are town look town it doesn't matter who get's NK'd and scum have no room to hide. It's really easy. I mean that scum can't literally win the game whatever they do..
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Actually no, on looking back at what I said I don't stand by any part of it.
To clarify, I don't think either you or Robik are terrible, far from it, and I never did think that. I just found what you were doing absolutely unconvincing and wanted to say that strongly enough to get that message across. I oversold it a lot, and I'm sorry for that. I alluded to the concept behind what I was doing in my QT with goodkarma with something I said to Robik at the beginning of the first day. Y'all seem to have a similar style to me, and I know that when comments like "you're terrible at this game" are thrown at me I get into mad prove-them-wrong mode and step up my game. So I figured I'd give a strong prod like that to see if you would respond similarly. You did, but as it turns out there was a good reason for what seemed like shady play, and I made you mad enough to claim, which was obviously a horrible mistake on my part. When I said "I stand by that decision" I'm referring to calling you out, and in retrospect it was just not a good play and not something I should have done.
I disagree with this part:
I just hope you realise everyone is smart enough in these mafia games to know what to do. Nobody is bullshitting for no reason - they have their own reasons. You don't just chalk everything up as 'bad play' and show them face.
Not to say that not everyone is smart, of course people know what to do. But all players will get lazy, or mad, or otherwise play suboptimally unintentionally, and so there's certainly a purpose for calling that out; you just have to be careful in doing it to get a constructive response. I obviously wasn't careful about it at all and screwed the pooch pretty bad, and I'm sorry for that.
I hope that makes sense. Again I didn't and don't think you're bad at all, I just said it and said it strongly because I felt like something was off about your game, and ended up making a big fool of myself in the process.
I'm confused by one thing you said though...
Also remember that you cannot regret doing something since it is already done.
I don't understand how you're using the word regret here. Regret necessarily entails an action you've already taken; it's the pain associated with realizing you made a big mistake in how you acted in the past. What do you mean by this sentence?
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On July 19 2014 00:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 00:31 HaruRH wrote:
'Both of you are fucking terrible at this game and will never become good at this game'
This shit still rings in my head and I really don't want a repeat of such a game. By the way, it is a play I decided to make, not me being terrible at this game. So seeing this comment just made me rage. I didn't bother reading through the whole thing at that time.
'you were entirely unconvincing when you spent the whole game getting mad at people who disagreed with you and yelling at them like that was going to change their minds.'
Like I said, this was a play I chose to do. I never regretted doing this. I had to balance out glowingbear's interaction with the game - if I also interacted with the game, I am 100% sure we would be nk'ed n2. Therefore, I had to act retarded and try to smoke past d2, looking as bad as a nk as possible.
but.
you know what happened.
I just hope you realise everyone is smart enough in these mafia games to know what to do. Nobody is bullshitting for no reason - they have their own reasons. You don't just chalk everything up as 'bad play' and show them face.
I will see your future games and how you interact with others before deciding if I would like to play another game with you, but for now, to avoid me blowing myself out at d1 arguing with you in other games, I want to avoid playing any games with you. Also remember that you cannot regret doing something since it is already done.
'You certainly dished it back before and after I made my comment. I've chalked them up to heat-of-the-moment angry insults you didn't actually mean'
The insults aimed at you this game was made because you did the exact same to me and I raged. It wasn't heat of the moment. The bolded part is not really the way to play Haru. If you/GB looked town the would have been even more easier for the town. If people who are town look town it doesn't matter who get's NK'd and scum have no room to hide. It's really easy. I mean that scum can't literally win the game whatever they do..
you're not the first to say this :'The bolded part is not really the way to play Haru.' they literally say this to me every game lol. hhehehe
'I regret using as strong language as I used to make my point'
I was replying to this.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On July 19 2014 00:18 Eden1892 wrote:
Also if we're talking bans, I know I'm super late to the party, but if Slam was banned for posting NSFW images I strongly oppose that and would request that he be reinstated. It wasn't a big enough deal to warrant any punitive action and I'm kinda disappointed to hear that such action was taken
Slam requested his own ban.
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Ah. Alright, then, that's different. I just didn't want him to get banned because of some pictures that, while certainly nsfw, ultimately aren't banworthy imo. If he requested his own ban that's another story, and I'd probably do best just to stay out of it...
@Haru, that's interesting. I guess I'm still not following. I do regret the language I used in making my point, along with even making the point at all. I'm sorry for using it and sorry for hurting you. Perhaps that's a better way of putting it rather than talking about regretting it or not?
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There's been discussion about strong language used in games before.
IMO there is nothing wrong in using strong language when you don't personally insult anyone. However some people take things differently but if someone calls for example me an "asshole" or "bad" or uses cursewords i don't really care. I also think noone else should care because this is an emotional game where people are trying to get their point across and sometimes get frustrated, as town, or even as mafia (yes - i was for example frustrated when noone seemed to understand what i really wanted to say in my case against Haru/GB).
Personal insults are another thing (i mean when you just call someone names and don't even have an argument - as what happens sometimes when people just aren't capable of arguing in certain situations). I don't think i saw anything like this in this game (although i didn't have a chance to read the thread after the last time i posted as an alive player )
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i mean imo you just say whatever you have to say in order to get the result you want without crossing a line of personally insulting people
it's undoubtedly going to cause salt down the line but salt is natural and ever flowing, salt is part of the circle of trife and always happens after anyone loses at anything anyway.
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On July 19 2014 01:22 OnceKing wrote:
i mean imo you just say whatever you have to say in order to get the result you want without crossing a line of personally insulting people
it's undoubtedly going to cause salt down the line but salt is natural and ever flowing, salt is part of the circle of trife and always happens after anyone loses at anything anyway.
Yes. People should realize a game is a game, play the game, argue with game related comments and not with AtE (only). After game the game was just a game, someone played good, someone played bad. Probably everyone can learn unless someone called out all mafia from the beginning and lead the town to victory.
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well, in the first place, telling Haru and Robik that they're fucking terrible at mafia and never will be good until they do X thing probably crosses the line into personal attack territory...
and secondly, I don't wholly agree. if someone's hurt, it's tone-deaf and inconsiderate to handwave it with arguments that boil down to "it's just a game." the right thing to do if you hurt someone in-game is to apologize for it and explain yourself. even if getting overly aggressive or rude leads to better results for you (and at least with the aggression part, I'm a poster child for aggression = better results; I play terribly when I'm not aggressive), you have to take responsibility for the fact that you can hurt someone and, if you did, own it, apologize for it and try to rectify it
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yeah you are right.
people cross the line all the time but realizing what you did (in case you did something wrong) and apologizing is the correct way to handle the stuff.
However if you hurt someone by just "playing aggressive mafia game" maybe the problem is that the one someone is not suited to play mafia (in other words too sensitive). I don't know if this is the case here because i have no idea what you guys are talking about, i am just talking in general.
I'll let you guys sort out your own stuff and stfu.
that was just my 2c
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
It's no coincidence that when i joined the game mafia conceded.
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On July 19 2014 01:42 Holyflare wrote:
It's no coincidence that when i joined the game mafia conceded.
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Hey, apologises were made. It happens in a game where you have to take symmetrically opposing sides. Actually, little insults can be part of the game. It got Haru raged and it worked lol. No need to apologise to me, Haru, you were a great senior.
What I think that cannot happen is posting series of NSFAnything images on a game like this. I'm playing mafia, not surfing on /b/. Anyway slam, if you get this mad for a game and you have conditions, you shouldn't play it. It's not healthy for you. And for the message you dropped on the obs qt, I'd never joke about conditions. And I didn't.
You guys can't get me pissed for anything while in the game. The only thing that get me on my nerves is that kind of attitude.
But anyway slam, I loved the game you hosted and you were a great host. Know that I'm not writing this out of anger or towards you. I'm writing against that attitude. I am willing to play with you, I just don't want that kind of attitude anymore and for what people said you are not like that, never. So... I'm okay with it
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EPT
