Cell Mini Mafia

On April 02 2014 03:44 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also, why do I have to get stuck with Palmar

On April 02 2014 04:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Actually this "which group to lynch first" is really stupid for the next 40 hours.
Townie points for the person who first tells why.

~rayn

On April 02 2014 05:02 getmoript wrote:
So I've skimmed so far.
Cell 1
Raynpelikonoshi--Very tempted to lynch because I can't read Koshi and I don't think Rayn has called me super town yet
Gumshoe--solid player with alright reads generally but pretty obvious as scum
Steveling--???

Cell 2
Holyflare-scum
Tehpoofter--very good player, still adjusting to forum, low volume poster
mderg--?????

Cell 3
Palmar--strong player
Sentinel--I don't really remember him much
Coagulation--Policy lynch option, both lurkers

Cell 4
Balla24--meh
LSB--meh
Alakaslam--likely scum

Cell 5
Getmoript--clearly town, great at endgame, super stronk townie
prplhz--decent player, generally low volume, scummy first post
Cephiro--solid playler

Rayn I'm having a hard time reading Koshi... Why wouldn't he push himself for mayor on D1/0 whatever it is today?

Like Cell 2 is obviously the best first lynch. HF busses as scum and has ok reads as town. I'd love to policy lynch him and under no circumstances should he ever be allowed to mid-late game. Cell 3 should be the third lynch 100%. Palmar is someone who, for lack of a better lynch, we can lynch and then sheep his reads; I'm tempted to move this up to slot 2 because Palmer tends to get worse as time goes on. Cell 4 should probably be the second lynch though because they're mostly unreadable and I want to lynch Alakaslam so that makes that pretty easy. Cell 1 is clearly next because me and rayn usually click on things and in case town hasn't won by then me and Rayn should easily be able to finish it off or I'll hammer Rayn to win the game for town.
2->4->3->1->5 is clearly the best pattern and me/Cav should 100% be the mayor. Like it's obvious, I refuse to let anyone else be the mayor and will policy lynch anyone who goes against me as mayor.

On April 02 2014 05:26 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Okay geript is scum. There is no way he is town in this game.
Reasoning: You don't policy lynch in this setup. You don't even think about it because you can read the other two people in the group and decide the lynch based on reads on those people.

There is no way geript brings up some fluff like policy lynches as town. Not in this game. The post prplhz quoted is full of nothing, policies after policies. The post is nothing and says nothing useful.

~rayn

On April 02 2014 07:37 raynpelikonoshi wrote:

Alakaslam. I see you decided to play a game. yay.

Either
Read the OP. Read the thread. Play the game.
Otherwise
Stick to not reading and posting nonsense.

Don't do both because that is extremely scummy and we will lynch you.

On April 02 2014 07:37 raynpelikonoshi wrote:

I am not sure any more.
For clarification. Here is from our QT:

rayn: I suggest don't talk to geript. There is nothing good that can come out of him.
Koshi: hmm seems like I don't remember shit from survivor. He isn't this aggressive at all there. Puts geript at null (for me) atm.
Koshi: dat not posting, dat not talking to geript
Koshi:
rayn: Yeah now i really stop. I don't know if he is town or scum i just want him to fucking stop posting.
rayn: But i 100% agree with geript Alakaslam is mafia. But he might be bussing because he knows i know if Slam is scum or not from the beginning.

~rayn

On April 02 2014 08:08 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
How will activity be following 48 hours slam?
Because there is a chance your group will be up first.

On April 02 2014 06:17 Coagulation wrote:
hi

-coag

On April 02 2014 06:42 getmoript wrote:

No it wasn't. Me and Cav are clearly town here. You should obviously be reading me for town here. Like you say it's full of shit and completely ignore the fact that I want to lynch Alakaslam with fire; I'm nailed him every time and he's 100% the lynch from that group. Like you don't even get why I want to lynch prplhz. I don't even get why you're trying to bury me here. I cannot see you not supporting me here as town.

On April 02 2014 09:34 gumshoe wrote:



I have answered every question directed at me so far, but I feel no need to divulge information that might jeopardize my efforts to trip up scum unless I don't have much choice I. The matter. Especially when it comes to the person whose my default top scum read.


As for your question,
2' because confirmed scum isn't going anywhere. They can be literally killed at any time and I rather lynch question marks while everyone is still invested in the game. I have taken on this mind set strictly because the setup holds no surprises. If I'm scum, why would I champion something like that if my buddy gets lynched by day3 anyways? What do I gain aside from towns ire?

On April 02 2014 09:41 gumshoe wrote:


Close, it's an ipad XD

On April 02 2014 09:44 getmoript wrote:

No. Ideal town play is to evaluate everyone. A strong town read vastly improves odds of hitting scum outside your pod and makes a 100% lynch in pod. Plus it lets you work together more in lynching correctly by getting honest opinions.

On April 02 2014 09:45 Palmar wrote:

Cool, tell me about it on thursday.

What are you gonna do if slam becomes happy?

On April 02 2014 09:48 Palmar wrote:

Ok yeah, that's a lot better idea.

Can I be mayor?

On April 02 2014 09:50 Palmar wrote:

Counter him.

Angry rayn = mafia, smiley rayn = mafia

non-smiley reasonable rayn = town

easiest read of my life.

On April 02 2014 09:51 gumshoe wrote:


A scum one is lost as well, so It feels like a problem that evens itself out honestly. Basically I dont think it's a factor that supersedes questionable alignment or outright scumminess(which is probally how we should considering the order, by who we need to flip the most in terms of information and results.)

On April 02 2014 09:57 Palmar wrote:

He's outed scum now.

On April 02 2014 09:58 gumshoe wrote:


I legit dont know what your talking about, also were not lynching all the strong groups first regardless so it's a non issue. Oh and ignorance doesn't make me scum.

On April 02 2014 09:59 Alakaslam wrote:
Oh

I can make Chisté but I tend to miss

On April 02 2014 09:59 gumshoe wrote:


The smile :D

On April 02 2014 10:03 Palmar wrote:

yeah I'll have a goodburger

On April 02 2014 10:04 Palmar wrote:


If you're worried about this just make me mayor, already said I'd put myself first.

On April 02 2014 10:07 Palmar wrote:

I don't think this setup produces confirmed townies.

On April 02 2014 10:08 Palmar wrote:
I just want to be mayor for the title really.

I'm off

On April 02 2014 10:22 raynpelikonoshi wrote:

gumshoe and slam

~rayn

On April 02 2014 10:30 Holyflare wrote:
No poofter the best strategy is to find scum. This is easiest in your own cell because if you are town it's between 2 people and then you just find the obvious inconsistencies and mafia behavioural patterns because you 100% know one of them is scum. Just because the mechanics are a little different doesn't mean the underlying principle of finding and lynching mafia have changed.

Just find the mafia in the cell and point them out and then move on and find more.

On April 02 2014 10:33 Holyflare wrote:



Is this a scum claim though!

On April 02 2014 10:36 Tehpoofter wrote:
@hydra rayn are you still reading slam as scum? This is my third game with him and he actually seems to be trying... at least "trying" more so than he has in other games. I find him unreadable as is being said and you seem to be doing your typical rayn town thing of going ham (why did you not do this in Dr. Who 2 grrrr)

Like this post seems to be hes actually reading people:



and these two posts he trying to extract game relevant info from palmer:






He seems to be processing the game at least a little idk maybe I'm just noticing it more through the troll after playing a couple games with him but is this something you read as mafia slam? (His filter is still like 80% gibberish)

On April 02 2014 10:56 getmoript wrote:

God Rayn you are like super fucking infuriating when you don't listen to me. Like I don't really care what your alignment is right now but I'm not going to listen to your scum reads anymore. Like you half bother explaining them and then you always ignore me just like you did on Toad. The sad thing is I'm pretty sure Palmer's going to phone it in and the you and HF are going to drive town into the dirt. Like I'm not sure that you're scum but regardless of your alignment what you're doing is a real dick move and I don't appreciate it.

On April 02 2014 10:59 Holyflare wrote:


So just to confirm with scum geript here. Plam, rayn, hf confirmed town now right?

On April 02 2014 11:29 Balla24 wrote:


First off, what was your result of your filter dives on my cell.

Secondly, why is Slam in the scummy pile when you seemed to be leaning more town on him previously:



Even though you call him unreadable. Like this post you call him unreadable but then post conclusions that seem to call him town, and then you call him scum. Which is it and why?

Also. Stop being silly, just comment on everybody and don't tunnel like a normal person instead of refusing to comment on mderg and holyflare.

On April 02 2014 04:42 LSB wrote:
The most important feature of cell mafia is the ability to cull inactive players as soon as possible. This is interesting because this allows the game to maintain a level of activity and analysis demanded for the full duration, rather than it being a game between lurkers at lylo.

Activity is very town favored because it is easier to find mafia if everyone has to speak, than throw darts at lurkers.

---

I am going to rank players based on what I remember based on the most recent game in the TL mafia database

A - Active Players, solid contributions and good amount of posts
IL - Inactive or Lurking players, little thread presence in the last game

This raiting is mainly to determine inactivity. Bold is for emphasis

I didn't look to hard, but if you had at least 8 pages of posts I considered you active and if you had long posts I counted you as active

Cell 1
A - Raynpelikonoshi - Probably the most active player on the forums
A - Gumshoe - Active in A quiet game
A - Steveling http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/311554-surprisingly-normal-mini-mafia-vii?user=Steveling&page=4

Cell 2
A Holyflare - Active in LXIII
IL Tehpoofter - Modkilled for inactivity last game
IL mderg - Inactive last game he played. It was 2 years ago http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/309405-werewolves-invade-teamliquid-ii?user=mderg

Cell 3
A Palmar - Active in Default Suspicions
IL Sentinel - Self admitted inactive and not in for the long haul
? Coagulation - Kushm4sta is active, but Coag can't post his seal.

Cell 4
A Balla24 - Active in Default Suspicions
A LSB
IL Alakaslam - Pretends to be Chez, but never back it up with analysis.

Cell 5
A Getmoript - Previous Hydra was active
A prplhz - Active in Default supsions
A Cephiro - Active in GMB

---

If we go by this we see that

Cell 1 and Cell 5 contain all active players.
Cell 2 contains two inactive players
Cell 3/4 contain at least one inactive player.

Based on this, my ideal order would be
2,3,4,5,1. Or 2,3,4,1,5

Ultimentally this data would be best supplimented by seeing day 1 post counts.

On April 02 2014 11:34 Tehpoofter wrote:
@balla. I read rayn as town and he has read Slam well in the games I've seen and both of them have stated that rayn reads Slam well. So I was saying that I read Slam as town from those couple posts and was asking rayn what he thought of that. He then posted after that



I decided since I was wrong about slam in the titanic game and rayn was very quickly able to determine his alignment as town and I read rayn as town I was going to put him in my leaning scum pile because I feel rayn has more experience and better accuracy than me at reading slam.

Also I'm still reading you guys filters Finished yours and reading LSB now.

On April 02 2014 12:37 getmoript wrote:


I care about mayor as well. It's a position of power that can be put to use if we care about connecting the dots later down the line. It's a tool and it should be utilized as such.

Our own cell has an inactive but prp has said stuff and I frankly don't like any of it. I think he's scummy because he keeps trying to pounce on people that are rousing poor thread sentiment rather than trying to find mafia.

Rayn likes him and I think that that's derp, but Steveling has done nothing so far so I'm concerned about making accurate reads into that cell until he says stuff.

Your cell is between LSB and Slam, but I'm going to trust geript's read on it and say that it's probably Slam. (Though LSB saying stuff about policy lynching the mayor is derp because the mayor is most likely going to be town and that's a free win for scum in that cell. It took me a while to realize but there you go.)

I'm fairly confident that mderg is the scum in Cell 2. I'm probably going to talk with g more and see what we can dig up from this one, because I'm actually kind of afraid to townread HF after the stunt he pulled in Cultured (which was fucking awesome, btw).

I'm clueless about Cell 3.

~Cav

On April 02 2014 12:49 getmoript wrote:


The read on Slam changed after having time to reread his filter. The read on Slam used to be: Is he having fun, if yes then town. But that's really an incomplete explanation. Slam subjectively has more fun playing mafia than he does as town. The difference is that as mafia he doesn't want to be lynched. As town, I don't think he cares. As town, he allows himself to be carefree so that he can enjoy playing. As scum, he doesn't because that's what gets him lynched. The two posts I've quoted, show off that carefree attitude. In these posts he's allowing himself to post whatever the fuck he's thinking; it's just him posting. That's town for him.

Ps slam I think Balla is the scum in your group

On April 03 2014 15:21 getmoript wrote:
Hijole Slam. You agree that LSB is town I see. Want to play a game?

On April 03 2014 15:33 getmoript wrote:
Balla

On April 03 2014 15:37 getmoript wrote:
Mderg is bigfoot?

On April 03 2014 15:39 getmoript wrote:
prplhz

On April 03 2014 15:41 getmoript wrote:
Steveling

On April 03 2014 15:43 getmoript wrote:
Gumshoe... don't forget your colors too

On April 03 2014 15:45 getmoript wrote:
LSB

On April 03 2014 15:47 getmoript wrote:
Come on dear we're almost done

On April 03 2014 15:48 Alakaslam wrote:

http://youtu.be/3K9j-3-1vgU


I went and found this

On April 03 2014 15:48 getmoript wrote:
Coagulation

On April 03 2014 15:54 getmoript wrote:
This should be a fun one... Tehpoofter

Alakaslam wrote:



Look deep into the eyes of Alakaslam, and I shall make thine handle speak soothly of thy condition. Thou shalt be in the care of the Kushm4sta

P.S. I forgot I meant to quote your comment about hostility

You ain't seen nothin till you seen raynpelikoneet bring it out of everyone

He can piss me off he can piss you off"

On April 03 2014 16:01 getmoript wrote:
[UoN]Sentinel

On April 03 2014 16:02 Tehpoofter wrote:
@ geript Did you hit everyone geript? and if so are you actually getting a read from this?

@Slam what about you? is this giving you a read at all? Why vote LSB over geript or rayn or HF?

On April 03 2014 16:08 getmoript wrote:
and the color?

On April 03 2014 16:16 getmoript wrote:
You don't have to stay up to do this specifically, you can think about it more but I expect an answer from you.

On April 03 2014 16:27 getmoript wrote:

So Rayn... Still think he's scum?

On April 03 2014 16:31 getmoript wrote:
Dude seriously, who called for you to be shot in that game of video? Give me props dude, like I figured out how to read you. I've given that read to Rayn and a few others.

On April 03 2014 16:34 getmoript wrote:
And he's using that same heuristic here. Is his stolen read right?

On April 03 2014 23:46 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
I have one nice thing i wanna try:

Alakaslam, are you mafia?

~rayn

On April 04 2014 08:20 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
KOSHI WHAT THE FUCK?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!"!"µl,öfedklögfdbhgfd

f7ucking fuck

you fuck,öfges

On April 04 2014 11:54 gumshoe wrote:
Hmm Coag is silly, as per usual, question is he scum / :

I will say I dont like how blatant he was about wanting to lynch Slam just cause whatever. He offered no read on Slam of his own and that was literally his only read XD. I have no issue killing Coag at the moment, I think sent is super town, which leaves Plamar who I'll dive next to see if I can tie him to Rayn.

##Vote: Coagulation

Also how is Coag so sure Rayns scum? His reasoning was dumb, Artanis made the only call he could possibly make to not break the game. That doesnt auto clear me and Steve. Its likely Rayn's scum, but he didnt outright claim and he was drunk so who the hell knows.

Sigh, all this bullshit is pretty much my fault T_T.

On April 04 2014 13:28 gumshoe wrote:



Seriusly? Your his only scum read.

On April 04 2014 13:34 gumshoe wrote:


Why cant he just be Coag?

On April 05 2014 02:45 Palmar wrote:
Press rhe little hashtag next to quote when you're in his filter it will take you to that post in the thread

On April 05 2014 05:47 Steveling wrote:
Hi alakaslam.
Have you read the latest pages and come to that conclusion or did you look inside your magic sphere?

On April 05 2014 05:49 Holyflare wrote:
Coag best lynch

On April 05 2014 05:52 gumshoe wrote:


How? Im not, so you can understand why I'm curios as to your source : D

How is Coag best lynch? What has he done this game thats any different from his standard?

On April 05 2014 06:11 gumshoe wrote:


Nope, I thought the town claim was him going "oh shit" it all seemed scummy to me.

On April 05 2014 13:26 getmoript wrote:
Look, the fact that there's nobody even trying to rethink this lynch should be kind of an issue.

Unless we have all just stopped caring entirely. But we shouldn't be letting anyone lurk right now.

~Cav

On April 06 2014 09:10 Holyflare wrote:
I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Palmar was scum.

On April 06 2014 09:25 gumshoe wrote:
Also ceph isn't scum...Holy we on the same page for once?

On April 06 2014 09:44 gumshoe wrote:


And everyone else had super tight reads? It was a desperate final struggle, where he worked against himself XD. Also, if he was scum, he was saved by 1 vote(also his vote was on him...)... you think rayn was town right? So 4 scum were already on the coag wagon? Or left him out to dry on that close a lynch? Cmon geript, its easier to believe one dude was incompetent town rather than a whole scum team was playing things that loose.

Most likely possibility is that the scum had total freedom this lynch, because it was a vote between 2 townies / : which is why so many scummy people (mdern, prplz(OH SNAP)) were apathetic : D.

On April 06 2014 10:04 Alakaslam wrote:
Well

I don't think CEPHIRO is scum at all

Getmoript is unlikely but possible scum.

I am pretty sure purplhrz is scum

So

##Vote: prplhz

On April 06 2014 10:07 getmoript wrote:

Palmer is dead. Rayn is effectively dead. Your vote belongs to me or else you're scum.

On April 06 2014 11:35 Holyflare wrote:
You realise a hydra is to fucking talk among yourselves im a qt and then post your thoughts as one? Please stop this useless contradictory crap.

Rayn and palmar are both scum.

On April 07 2014 05:16 Steveling wrote:
Why is he confirmed town?

On April 03 2014 10:04 Cephiro wrote:


I personally think the mayor matters quite a bit. Both whom is chosen and what that mayor's choices are.
In general I think the best play is to either vote a strong townread the mayor (to ensure we will gain the order we want), or then go for a player that we are in general unsure about to possibly gain information, depending on if they'll follow the requests of the majority of townspeople or go against it.



I am a bit curious about the logic behind this. Does this mean you are confident that we will be able to find out the suspected strong scum players if given enough time, rather than enable the mafia to control the town even better? I also don't think ranking players at this point in the game for their potential threats is necessarily the best way to go about it, when there is still plenty of discussion ahead which may actually get us somewhere, rather than go about it guesstimating. How I see it is if we are certain to have found scum in a cell, we should lynch that cell early on.



As was pointed out short after, this is not a very good idea. After we've had a mayor decide the order however, pretty much all attention should be on the cell that is being lynched, playing the game a match at a time and then using the information from the previous rounds to our advantage in the following ones.

General note: Not liking the people who are talking about which order we should lynch the cells in at the start of the game, such as Sentinel.

+ Show Spoiler +

The slight contradiction in the above post got pointed out well, but what it made me rethink was my earlier comment about concentrating on the cell up at a time. I still do mostly agree with that notion, but the players that are in the lynched cell should provide their analysis on others before dying off, as it could give us crucial information to continue with.

+ Show Spoiler +

Fairly interesting post by LSB, his first post with a clear agenda. While I personally like the idea of being able to cut off the inactives players to start with, once the initial order is decided it cannot be changed. I don't think that the first 48 hours will necessarily tell us enough as for the players activities, and if we have lynch targets for reasons other than inactivity, we should go for those first in my opinion.



I don't really understand the bolded. Lynching into a cell which has almost no interaction with players outside of it, how will that help us find remaining scum or town? Don't get me wrong, I don't want to keep inactives around till endgame, but I don't understand prplhz logic here. How does lynching unreadables -> information about remaining townies? Is there something obvious that I'm missing or is there simply no sense in this follow-up?


+ townie points for rayn for being the first one to bring this up.


I don't really like the way he makes it sound like it was incredibly obvious, but still everyone was eagerly rambling on about the group order up to this point. And the addition about it being a good thing to just talk about? We're here to find mafia, not to just chat. Is discussing group orders the best way for us to find mafia? I doubt it.

I liked getmoript's entry. But then this. This hideous thing, spoilered below.
+ Show Spoiler +
This makes so little sense it makes me cringe. Classifying the players in the 5 cells at this point, including some he has no idea about is just stupid. It has no basis. It's also extremely contradictory. Why does getmoript what Cell 2 lynched first when he is so sure about Holy? The way he explains himself I understand that he reads HF well if he's scum, and that HF can be an asset to town when town. Why would you want to get rid of a player like that early on? Policy lynching at start with no proper reasoning? Just... what. The other cells have reasons that make a bit more sense, but I find it contradictory that getmoript whom earlier called rayn out for not having realized why the order discussion is not very fruitful and liking prp's post, now goes straight into talking about order himself as his first agenda, when half of the players in the game haven't even showed up yet.



The post before this where LSB explains what rayn is likely to trying to hint at I like. I don't however like how much he's pushing the activity ordering. Just as 48 hours gives you a limited amount of information readwise, it also gives a limited amount of information activity-wise. (Personal opinion.) If there are available reads that are clear enough, I'd always take them before an inactivity policy lynch. Not to mention that while deciding the order, one has to account for the new information that inevitably comes up before reaching a certain group.



+ for pointing out the exact thing same about getmoript as I thought of when I read it.

General note: The back and forth between raykosh+getmo starts looking like it'll become an unreadable clusterfuck, I hope not.

+ Show Spoiler +

Super bad post by getmoript. #1 #3 are just trolling and/or being stupid. #2 is just bad. So you want to lynch palmar because if he's town, you're just gonna believe his reads and trust in them and win the game like that, and if he's scum, then yay 1 scum down? Just no, no no no. Horrible reasoning for wanting to lynch a player that hasn't even posted at that point of the game.

General note: Does gumshoe post anything but useless filler?
General note 2: Could say almost the same about mderg.

+ Show Spoiler +
More text from getmoript I don't like. Main point why: Given the confidence in his own play clearly shown in his posts so far, why is he 1) so afraid of the possibility of a scum holyflare, when he's shown confidence in understanding holyflare's play earlier. 2) So dependant on getting "good information" from Palmar like he's some sort of god-level-player who will without question be correct and worth trusting if he flips town. Even the best players can be wrong. The thing is, we're not here to play "sheep the most experienced players", especially not with the amount of confidence getmoript is showing off. Which is exactly why I find it so weird that he insists on these two things.

Closure note: This is going to take long. Posting my thoughts as I catch up, here's up to end of P15. Small break.