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On March 30 2014 23:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am now telling everyone that survivor claims should always be lynched unless there is 100% scum because:
1) they can also be mafia fakeclaiming
2) they NEVER work for the town, they are basically +1 mafia even if they look like they are "helping"
Anyone who does not understand this is just plain out dumb or mafia. Period. Case closed.
Okay I misread this the first time and thought it was you saying you want to always lynch the survivor... not the survivor claim.
So Rayn would you say that in a game with possible alignment changes lynching a mafia is crucial in case they can add to their team in some fashion or possibly hit a 3rd party role that can recruit for their own alignment as well?
I feel like even if Slam was still confirmed Survivor in this setup I wouldn't want to lynch him day 1 I'd much rather want to lynch someone I found scummy that could be mafia or an anti-town third party converting type role that seems likely given the setup.
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For the record even though you think that he is simply claiming survivor and don't believe him I think its scummy to put him as an auto lynch and in my eyes I would rather lynch someone else who seems scummy. Like what do you think the chances are hes really survivor vs mafia fake claiming?
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On March 31 2014 03:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
maybe you should all vote for me because that case is awesome!
See look now you're scum hunting yourself! so you can take that off the list too.
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On March 31 2014 03:28 kitaman27 wrote:
For someone who doesn't care about the game, you sure do like to waste time defending yourself.
He is scum hunting and I think he found on kita. I'm on rayn's wagon to kill rayn.
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@rayn what do you think about my point that a game with alignment changes its not as good to lynch a survivor? (lets assume for this question you believe slam's claim which I realize I was mistaken on before)
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@Djo once you're done catching up how do you feel about rayn's this game in comparison to last game we all played (titanic) or previous games?
This question also is good for Vivax/hopeless/thrawn but I don't think tehy're around atm.
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On March 31 2014 03:39 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2014 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
For someone who is supposed to be good at this game you say a lot of stupid stuff kita. Hey, I'm not the guy pushing a mass claim in a recruiter setup. On a side note, it's quite possible that mafia numbers are going to be nerfed on day one if there is a alignment changing mechanic. We could very well be dealing with 1-2 at the start.My policy on slam is that if he refuses to role claim, he doesn't care about winning with town and should be lynched. The "I hate my role, I'm just going to quit" attitude is worthless. Vivax, you know you have a reputation for not posting as mafia, so what gives? Do you have a mafia read yet hope?
This is my exact argument on why we should avoid lynching the like auto lynch that is Slam. If mafia grows in numbers at night or something this is our BEST chance of taking down their numbers.
Rayn I have seen you own as town if you're town do that this game but we really need to hit today because of what kita posted... Kita I like you as town.
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On March 31 2014 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is one person who can meta me and they are not in this game so your question is useless poofer.
they don't have to be right about their meta but reading them based on their meta on you can garner information so I disagree that its useless. You're different this game rayn, can you just be town?
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@rayn I think lynching mafia on day 1 is far superior to lynching a third party survivor (this is assuming his claim is real)
If we had 1-2 mafia today that can convert or something we could have 2-3 tomorrow imagine if we his like a mafia converting role or a 3rd party anti town converting role tonight instead of some survivor that can still be town sided. How is that not better?
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On March 31 2014 03:54 Alakaslam wrote:
Well I voted Rayn so for posterity
##Vote: raynpelikoneet
Care to explain why you voted rayn? you know for posterity
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@rayn if mafia knows there is no way they're being lynched today then what incentive do they have to pressure or defend? Like the threat of getting lynched is what mafia most has to worry about. Giving them a free ride for a day lets them sit back and not doing anything. We fundamentally disagree but the fact you're so passionate about it makes me lesson my scum read a bit on you. If I unvote you can we start trying to find who might be mafia nad then argue about what day to lynch them?
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On March 31 2014 04:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And yes i am trying to find mafia lla the time.
Find me a mafia (and you can't choose yourself I already called dibs on that read)
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On March 31 2014 04:53 Amiko wrote:@Alakaslam Slam I think right now my feeling for voting you is, at worse we lynch someone who isn't town, at best we lynch mafia.
We can look at your reads after you are lynched but let's look at them now instead. I see your reads as: rayn -> you see as scummy, you voted him kitaman -> his vote was suspicious thrawn -> scum with rayn djo -> likely scum so I am wondering why you didn't answer me with kita/thrawn/djo? Also if it cheers you up alakaslam, I looked for on the Dr. Who creature list to see if there was a creature like a planar dragon. There isn't a planar dragon but there is a dragon. It that lives on "Svartos" and that made me happy because the word is a little like Svengali.
which of your 2 scenarios do you feel is more likely?
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On March 31 2014 05:16 Amiko wrote:@raynpelikoneet More from meShow nested quote +On March 31 2014 04:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Amiko have you anything to say about people who might be mafia who are not Slam? Like all you've done so far is defending me, talking about mechanics and talking about Slam. None of those things are interesting. I can talk a little more but don't think it'll interest you much: I took kitaman27's vote on thrawn2112 as somewhat scummy. I'm fine with writing off kita's initial vote as RVS, but his later vote on thrawn for joining him seemed late. I don't feel that committed, though, because I have trouble pointing to where exactly RVS does end in this game. I thought Vivax's post here was fine (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=22#426) but his post here felt out of place given the thread direction (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=26#502) Although I disagreed with tehpoofter on his vote on you, I don't read him as scummy from the post. If you want to drop discussion of massclaims that's fine, but if you think it'll help town I'm glad to engage on that topic more. @tehpoofter Slam as Survivor or MafiaShow nested quote +On March 31 2014 04:58 Tehpoofter wrote:
which of your 2 scenarios do you feel is more likely? I think it is more likely he is a survivor than a mafia. It's not based on much, but I the way he claimed felt more like an offhand comment and not in a defensive post to try to get votes off of him. I don't know Alakaslam meta besides that he uses unusual words so I'm willing to sheep somewhat on reading him while asking him some questions myself. @tehpoofter What do you think of my comments on your vote on Alakaslam in this post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21089733)?
MY vote on Slam or my Vote on rayn? Cause unless I'm derp the post you linked is you talking about my vote on rayn.
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I think that point 1 is wrong. Its scummy because by auto lynching the survivor claim you lose a lot of potential pressure that could be put on people. This is also if slam was doing this as VT would be a horrible waste of a day. I think the goal in this setup day 1 is to hit people that convert alignments that are anti-town. The longer we let the game go without getting someone like that the worst we are as town. So I think its not a pro-town agenda in this setup.
Your 2nd point about rayn doing other things. I'd say mass claiming reads as neutral especially since he says he's going to lie about his role... if he plans on doing that what info is garnered from a mass claim. If you have played with rayn you would know he loves to push and pressure a lot. He has since I made the original point about his not scum hunting stepped it up it seems but its not the rayn I know from the other game I played with him he truly was town hero that game so its possible I have too high of a standard for rayn's town game that remains to be seen but to me its different so to me its not scum hunting which is scummy.
3rd point is the one I care least about because its not something I know first hand and I'm not going to go read other games for this one I'm far too lazy and am content listening to what other people say about it so I will note that you find that particular tell a non-tell since he follows it up by giving reads, This however isn't going to change my mind as of yet.
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@Thrawn what you think of Slam's claim? Also along the same lines what do you think of my accusations on rayn?
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On March 31 2014 06:09 Amiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2014 06:04 Tehpoofter wrote:
This is also if slam was doing this as VT would be a horrible waste of a day.
@tehpoofter: What do you think the chances are that Alakaslam is Survivor vs. Mafia vs. VT? Right now I'd guess, like, 70% survivor or traitor / 30% mafia / 0% vt. I guess there's also a chance he is some other 3rd party role.
I'll put it this way I don't think hes mafia here more than maybe 5% of the time. I think that he claimed way too passively and without care to be mafia. Mafia I feel like would use this claim in a situation where they're taking lots of pressure and he really wasn't under much I was one of the people voting him at the time and we were far from end of day.
So to me its like 85% survivor/ 5% mafia 5% mafia 5% other. I am of the attitude that to me a successful day for town in this type of game is to hit a mafia. Like if we go to lynch a mafia I'll be 100% happy if we kill Slam and hes survivor I would be like 40% happy if we hit a town I would be 0% happy. So for me I feel like Slam is a safe lynch if we don't have a clear mafia at the end of the day but I don't want to default lynch him from right now when we might catch a scum slipping up and start this game off right. I want an ez game for town not one where we play struggling. Survivor is a super uninformative lynch imo. I mean there is also the chance hes like Fool or something and claims survivor knowing people like rayn would push on him as any alignment (no clue if fool is possible or w.e. but still)
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On March 31 2014 06:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
i'm down with lynching hopeless
Any reason why?
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On March 31 2014 06:21 Tehpoofter wrote:Any reason why?
disregard I didn't reload before you said something
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@thrawn yeah I saw after I already sent the previous post.
And wait his little fit there about not caring and saying "you guys deal with rayn" makes you think hes town? I'm not compelled at all. How can he be so discouraged so early in the game we have no flips no known information for all he knows were onto all the scum and going to stomp if hes town. I hate the acting like a child and saying "i give" cause someone calls you mafia making someone town defense.
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EPT
