EPT+ Show Spoiler +
On March 19 2014 11:15 Hopeless1der wrote:
- waiting on rayn to come back, he inevitably will, most likely within the next 15 hours. If he isnt back before ~5 hours to deadline I say we lynch him, otherwise he's likely town
- Coag is town
- HF is scummy
- DP is leaning town
- Palmar is town (not green town)
Anything else you feel I could actually comment on at this point that wouldnt be meaningless speculation?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U9wOTR1.png)
- waiting on rayn to come back, he inevitably will, most likely within the next 15 hours. If he isnt back before ~5 hours to deadline I say we lynch him, otherwise he's likely town
- Coag is town
- HF is scummy
- DP is leaning town
- Palmar is town (not green town)
Anything else you feel I could actually comment on at this point that wouldnt be meaningless speculation?
On March 19 2014 11:29 thrawn2112 wrote:
can you explain some of those things?
can you explain some of those things?
On March 19 2014 11:32 thrawn2112 wrote:
most of all I want to hear explanations for the hf/palmar reads, dont worry about coag
most of all I want to hear explanations for the hf/palmar reads, dont worry about coag
On March 19 2014 11:34 Hopeless1der wrote:
coag for seal
HF for being dense and altogether not useful
rayn for being rayn
palmar for general pigheadedness and his early game telling me to piss off
DP for general demeanor though tbh I could cherry pick a reasonable conspiracy/association case from him
coag for seal
HF for being dense and altogether not useful
rayn for being rayn
palmar for general pigheadedness and his early game telling me to piss off
DP for general demeanor though tbh I could cherry pick a reasonable conspiracy/association case from him
On March 19 2014 11:36 Hopeless1der wrote:
HF insists his reads are legit, unless he's recanted his DP read somewhere that I missed. His case on DP was such a farce I question how he ever earned the championship belt.
HF insists his reads are legit, unless he's recanted his DP read somewhere that I missed. His case on DP was such a farce I question how he ever earned the championship belt.
On March 19 2014 11:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
this doesn't help me. if you took this post completely out of context and didn't know anything about this game, you'd have no idea if those reads make those players town or mafia
"rayn for being rayn"
recently you said that rayn should be lynched if he doesn't come back, but if he does come back he's town. I want to knwo about your read on him right now, not related to some conditional crap in the future. my guess is that you think he;s town but I still want you to explain why
this doesn't help me. if you took this post completely out of context and didn't know anything about this game, you'd have no idea if those reads make those players town or mafia
"rayn for being rayn"
recently you said that rayn should be lynched if he doesn't come back, but if he does come back he's town. I want to knwo about your read on him right now, not related to some conditional crap in the future. my guess is that you think he;s town but I still want you to explain why
The issue I have with your play is that it looked looked like you started stepping up activity post-Coag-confirming-himself-as-town which pretty much guaranteed to make you look like the poop you posted for +1ing that wagon, on the other hand i can't really blame you for delurking, but the timing stuck out to me.
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On March 20 2014 00:10 Giggletummy wrote:
Crap. Gotta love getting pulled away while writing up a case and then never delivering. Posting what I had, tacking on crappy conclusion, then catching up.
Step 1: Original posts on DP + Show Spoiler +
First bit is trolly. The last couple posts are either intending to draw a reaction from DP, start the game rolling, all that good jazz (townie), or are bad reasons to call someone mafia.
Asstons of people push RNG lynch and never do it. People talk policy and never do it. People say LAL and never do it. People call for policy lynches or not policy lynches of specific players all the time and never do either. Nobody, nobody is mafia for the specific reason that they think hydras are good as town and bad as scum but then votes to lynch them, in opposition to what is basically a one-liner in another game with a stupid policy comment.
So either he's trying to draw reactions or he's got really questionable logic.
Step 2: Flare pushes forward + Show Spoiler +
Flare still has DP mafia, and makes a good point about overdefensiveness after being called out. If he was fishing for reactions/trying to get game rolling, he hit something and ran with it. Keep that in mind.
However, the hopeless bit here is poop soup. In response to hopeless not jumping to vote DP and noting that Flare bussed a teammates in Cultured, Flare argues that hopeless is also mafia because, essentially, if Flare was town he's had good reads in the past and therefore must be right on DP, and if Flare is scum then he's got to be bussing DP. Either way, DP is scum, and so Hopeless should be agreeing with Flare, or at least voting DP - it's a good read or a bus.
The poop soupy part is that this statement is based on that idea that bussing one guy in one game = always bus never not bus. I have never seen anyone do that. Seriously look at this. Flare calls hopeless mafia based on reasoning that says "you said I bussed a guy one time, therefore you should be thinking I always and only bus teammates, and so my target has to be scum."
Again, either Flare is doubling down and really trying to draw out reactions from more people now or he's got really really really really really questionable logic.
Step 3: Followup
I'm not, ya big dingus. I asked Flare for his current thoughts about DP because, again, I don't know what Flare's agenda is early. That's why I wanted a current read. I expect either:
(1) I was fishing for a reaction. I got a scummy one. Therefore, DP is scum. He's done some stuff since, but I don't care, original reasons stand. (See this post, which is why I marked it - + Show Spoiler +
(2) I thought he was scummy at the start, then he's done x and y, so now I've altered my read a little bit. Shows Flare thinking about the thread, actually updating his read with whatever DP does, generally trying to figure out someone's alignment without knowing it.
(3) Tunnel city without going back and discussing fishing/whatever.
Think of Flare's suspicion of DP as a building that Flare is constructing. Flare built one good story of the building up high, noting that DP never followed up the hopeless questions.
But the bottom of the building was constructed poorly, it doesn't bear the weight of the top. His initial DP suspicion is for a strange policy/hydra reason that I don't think has anything to do with alignments. He added a suspicion of hopeless based off the idea that hopeless should be thinking that Flare busses everyone always. He built his early game out of bad suspicions.
When Flare returned to thread with nothing but more reasons why DP is mafia and only mafia, it showed me that he was just piling on and on, building off this very early suspicion that shouldn't have been legitimate. The fact that I think the bit about DP never following on hopeless questions is immaterial to a read on Flare. Whether Flare is town or mafia, he needs to be finding things that DP has done that are scummy to push his read. It's not like mafia Flare would only be presenting crappy reasons, he has to find something decent to push.
Crap. Gotta love getting pulled away while writing up a case and then never delivering. Posting what I had, tacking on crappy conclusion, then catching up.
Step 1: Original posts on DP + Show Spoiler +
On March 19 2014 06:40 Holyflare wrote:
I have a theory. DP thinks this game is scum favoured. DP likes keeping his town ratio up. DP requests scum so as not to lose town win ratio. DP is scum.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/poLOdtj.png)
I have a theory. DP thinks this game is scum favoured. DP likes keeping his town ratio up. DP requests scum so as not to lose town win ratio. DP is scum.
On March 19 2014 06:55 Holyflare wrote:
and here is the proof:
Insta votes the coag hydra even though he has categorically stated that they are op as town and crap at scum, follows through with a shit policy when even in previous games he states:
(witchcraft as town)
and doesn't try and find the alignment of the hydra! Has 1 page of filter already and it says nothing compared to most of the start to his games!
gg 1 scum down
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GpuKR9R.jpg)
and here is the proof:
Insta votes the coag hydra even though he has categorically stated that they are op as town and crap at scum, follows through with a shit policy when even in previous games he states:
(witchcraft as town)
and doesn't try and find the alignment of the hydra! Has 1 page of filter already and it says nothing compared to most of the start to his games!
gg 1 scum down
First bit is trolly. The last couple posts are either intending to draw a reaction from DP, start the game rolling, all that good jazz (townie), or are bad reasons to call someone mafia.
Asstons of people push RNG lynch and never do it. People talk policy and never do it. People say LAL and never do it. People call for policy lynches or not policy lynches of specific players all the time and never do either. Nobody, nobody is mafia for the specific reason that they think hydras are good as town and bad as scum but then votes to lynch them, in opposition to what is basically a one-liner in another game with a stupid policy comment.
So either he's trying to draw reactions or he's got really questionable logic.
Step 2: Flare pushes forward + Show Spoiler +
On March 19 2014 07:01 Holyflare wrote:
2nd scum found!
Follows the theory presented by Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney! but refuses to acknowledge that it happened and wants to frame town member Holyflare as the culprit! Inexcusable scum behaviour.
Who is our day 3 lynch?
2nd scum found!
Follows the theory presented by Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney! but refuses to acknowledge that it happened and wants to frame town member Holyflare as the culprit! Inexcusable scum behaviour.
Who is our day 3 lynch?
On March 19 2014 07:08 Holyflare wrote:
How does that apply here at all? In that regard I am thus bussing DP because that's what I do in my scum games. Therefore the case is in fact not horrible and you should sheep it. If I am town, I am generally correct and thus in fact you should sheep it. Either way, painting me in a negative light based on 1 game (whereas dp has stated anti policy things in numerous games, check the DB and past game filters) but still does it here. Furthermore, his overdefensive nature was seen very heavily in vengeful where he went full blow retard overreaction. This game is a much toned down version of that but still defensive because he doesn't like being critiqued. It is easy to find scum DP and I have done it.
Follow me. Oh scummy number 2.
How does that apply here at all? In that regard I am thus bussing DP because that's what I do in my scum games. Therefore the case is in fact not horrible and you should sheep it. If I am town, I am generally correct and thus in fact you should sheep it. Either way, painting me in a negative light based on 1 game (whereas dp has stated anti policy things in numerous games, check the DB and past game filters) but still does it here. Furthermore, his overdefensive nature was seen very heavily in vengeful where he went full blow retard overreaction. This game is a much toned down version of that but still defensive because he doesn't like being critiqued. It is easy to find scum DP and I have done it.
Follow me. Oh scummy number 2.
On March 19 2014 07:18 Holyflare wrote:
Read the last few posts of DP's. "Hmm Holyflare did this as scum.. Hmm, Holyflare did this as town! Hmm, it's best to just let him post and it's pretty straightfoward! Hmmmmm..... maybe Holyflare is scum"
wtf is that? There's no strong entry questioning a lot of logic, there's no pointing out errors there's nothing.. just pointless wifom, interesting that you liked that weak as hell post though Palmar.
Read the last few posts of DP's. "Hmm Holyflare did this as scum.. Hmm, Holyflare did this as town! Hmm, it's best to just let him post and it's pretty straightfoward! Hmmmmm..... maybe Holyflare is scum"
wtf is that? There's no strong entry questioning a lot of logic, there's no pointing out errors there's nothing.. just pointless wifom, interesting that you liked that weak as hell post though Palmar.
On March 19 2014 07:26 Holyflare wrote:
joy?
Nothing really, he gets angry as both alignments sure. Yet, to push him slightly and get those overly defensive posts at the same time as spreading useless posts is actually hinting more at a scum alignment to DP. It's like trying to troll while spreading doubt and when he gets called out on things it's "oh but it was just a joke see?". I don't think it looked too jokey, or more - too trying to be jokey with a hint of truth than anything.
Look at his opening in town games, it's always inquisitive, questioning, pushing! Here, it is not.
joy?
Nothing really, he gets angry as both alignments sure. Yet, to push him slightly and get those overly defensive posts at the same time as spreading useless posts is actually hinting more at a scum alignment to DP. It's like trying to troll while spreading doubt and when he gets called out on things it's "oh but it was just a joke see?". I don't think it looked too jokey, or more - too trying to be jokey with a hint of truth than anything.
Look at his opening in town games, it's always inquisitive, questioning, pushing! Here, it is not.
On March 19 2014 08:35 Holyflare wrote:
But koshi that is overdefensive. He should know people are wrong about him and realise they are making up shit and then people idly sheeping look scummy as hell but the over paranoia of everyone thinking you are scum is scummy though.
But koshi that is overdefensive. He should know people are wrong about him and realise they are making up shit and then people idly sheeping look scummy as hell but the over paranoia of everyone thinking you are scum is scummy though.
Flare still has DP mafia, and makes a good point about overdefensiveness after being called out. If he was fishing for reactions/trying to get game rolling, he hit something and ran with it. Keep that in mind.
However, the hopeless bit here is poop soup. In response to hopeless not jumping to vote DP and noting that Flare bussed a teammates in Cultured, Flare argues that hopeless is also mafia because, essentially, if Flare was town he's had good reads in the past and therefore must be right on DP, and if Flare is scum then he's got to be bussing DP. Either way, DP is scum, and so Hopeless should be agreeing with Flare, or at least voting DP - it's a good read or a bus.
The poop soupy part is that this statement is based on that idea that bussing one guy in one game = always bus never not bus. I have never seen anyone do that. Seriously look at this. Flare calls hopeless mafia based on reasoning that says "you said I bussed a guy one time, therefore you should be thinking I always and only bus teammates, and so my target has to be scum."
Again, either Flare is doubling down and really trying to draw out reactions from more people now or he's got really really really really really questionable logic.
Step 3: Followup
I'm not, ya big dingus. I asked Flare for his current thoughts about DP because, again, I don't know what Flare's agenda is early. That's why I wanted a current read. I expect either:
(1) I was fishing for a reaction. I got a scummy one. Therefore, DP is scum. He's done some stuff since, but I don't care, original reasons stand. (See this post, which is why I marked it - + Show Spoiler +
On March 19 2014 08:44 Koshi wrote:
I didn't like your early posting. I didn't like the non committal stuff. I didn't like the defensive attitude of other posts. I was reading the thread and I was actually looking at your posts strangely and then people put pressure on you and I simply +1 on everything. because I felt that needed to be done and they had a point.
Out of everybody I really believe you had a really weak-ass start and I gave you a scummy point. The point is already put down and cannot be erased.
-Koshi his judgement-
I didn't like your early posting. I didn't like the non committal stuff. I didn't like the defensive attitude of other posts. I was reading the thread and I was actually looking at your posts strangely and then people put pressure on you and I simply +1 on everything. because I felt that needed to be done and they had a point.
Out of everybody I really believe you had a really weak-ass start and I gave you a scummy point. The point is already put down and cannot be erased.
-Koshi his judgement-
(2) I thought he was scummy at the start, then he's done x and y, so now I've altered my read a little bit. Shows Flare thinking about the thread, actually updating his read with whatever DP does, generally trying to figure out someone's alignment without knowing it.
(3) Tunnel city without going back and discussing fishing/whatever.
Think of Flare's suspicion of DP as a building that Flare is constructing. Flare built one good story of the building up high, noting that DP never followed up the hopeless questions.
But the bottom of the building was constructed poorly, it doesn't bear the weight of the top. His initial DP suspicion is for a strange policy/hydra reason that I don't think has anything to do with alignments. He added a suspicion of hopeless based off the idea that hopeless should be thinking that Flare busses everyone always. He built his early game out of bad suspicions.
When Flare returned to thread with nothing but more reasons why DP is mafia and only mafia, it showed me that he was just piling on and on, building off this very early suspicion that shouldn't have been legitimate. The fact that I think the bit about DP never following on hopeless questions is immaterial to a read on Flare. Whether Flare is town or mafia, he needs to be finding things that DP has done that are scummy to push his read. It's not like mafia Flare would only be presenting crappy reasons, he has to find something decent to push.
On March 20 2014 01:55 Hopeless1der wrote:
No good answer atm. I wouldnt lynch Holy but I dont like him much.
Giggles:
I want this followup
No good answer atm. I wouldnt lynch Holy but I dont like him much.
Giggles:
I want this followup
On March 20 2014 06:03 Hopeless1der wrote:
i really like this point. I also want an excuse to not sheep palmar or rayn for the lulz![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jZ7vEnT.png)
i really like this point. I also want an excuse to not sheep palmar or rayn for the lulz
Hopeless, the followup is right there, in your face. You still want it for some reason, then don't comment on it and sheep a point VE made in a seemingly semi-trolly mood. This is in strong contrast to the start you delivered where you went instascum on HF, dead-serious. So please read that post by giggle and give me a conclusion, with YOUR reasoning.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dIlZJPK.png)
