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On February 26 2014 17:02 TheChyz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Just some stuff on you and WoS clogging up the thread with your discussion surrounding gumshoe. It just felt like it was going no where and more like an ego thing at the end (which if I remember correctly I think WoS sayed he kept his vote in spite or something along those lines).
Also suki just rubbing me the wrong way with here weird defensiveness and interactions with mocsta. Not sure what but something from reading her filter just doesn't seem right.
And somethings on mocsta but I have to re-read his filter to see what. Mostly I just remember his very jumpy nature from a target to another and his vote is very weak in my opinion.
But nothing I think will lead anywhere atm and just something to maybe keep an eye
This is the missing puzzle to my points below.
I thought when you were questioning me prior, you have "scum read" undertones, which is now confirmed. Thank you.
I add to my summary that your reads flip flop with thread sentiment.
##Vote: TheChyz
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Now HF,
I read through your points against me in more detail and can not comprehend your position in the slightest.
(1)
On February 26 2014 11:40 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:37 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:36 Holyflare wrote:On February 26 2014 10:19 Mocsta wrote:On thi 26 2014 10:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
Gumshoe just tell me now.
Am I going to have to policy lynch you for lurking this game? If u r town I don't like at all what our doing.
Which is.
Crating an atmosphere of intimidation
If u think otherwise, surely you can admit that the above is not conducive to gleaning the alignment of gumshoe in the slightestGumshoe post was very reasonable and called me town for the right reasons. Did u read a thing he wrote? On February 26 2014 11:33 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:31 JarJarDrinks wrote:On February 26 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 26 2014 11:14 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
@moc
Anything you want to discuss? Im drafting up my issues with Suki so feedback on that would be good when its released. As an aside/observation/muse till then, I havent read in detail the interactions between Geript/Toad/Rayn (as I have been focussed on you + Suki) however I am finding Rayns approach to Toad odd (regardless of alignment). Basically I know Rayn doesnt respect Toads town play. Red Herring or something to keep note of? Nah I'm generally okay with it. I don't find it alignment indicative for Rayn. Something JJD said reminded me of something: On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:
Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that.
If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer? In this post gumshoe doesn't offer the option that doesn't fit his idea of what suki is doing. (For example, she is neither AND is town.) Town should always be considering all options. I agree w/ this assesment. Also I find it odd that he seems to give moc a townread for some pretty terrible reasoning. Especially since IMO, moc has been acting pretty scummy. So... in Back to basics as both town, you found me scummy. in GSL Mini IV as me scum you town... you found me townie. in this game you find me scummy.... guess that means im town. Congratz JJD. Scum slip? Are you now copying your early case on DP from vengeful? You criticise Wave for saying some silly nonsense and saying if you're town why do that because it doesn't solve gumshoe's alignment or anything. Yet, same page of filter here you are saying nonsense to JJD who is bringing up points on other players. By your own reasoning townies shouldn't do that so why the change of heart so soon? Or are you sticking to what you said? "TOWN" don't do that! Agreed. I commented on Wave about trying to take an intimidation dump on Gumshoe. I do that as either alignment.
It is your comparison to JJD that makes zero sense.
Firstly, I havent tried to intimidate him -- which already invalidates your argument.
Secondly, my response was completely related to a component of what he wrote.
I would love to hear why writing the below is purely indicative of a scum mindset:
in Back to basics as both town, you found me scummy.
in GSL Mini IV as me scum you town... you found me townie.
in this game you find me scummy.... guess that means im town.
(2)
On February 26 2014 12:08 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:01 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:56 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 26 2014 11:52 Holyflare wrote:So tram, if you can post try hard cases as either alignment, what significant reasoning do we have to believe that you are town this game? Why even post the caveat that you can do that as scum as well? Also or me making a good one because I felt I had to ( it's not that difficult to make anyone look scummy if you set your mind to it) and getting someone mislynched.
what does that mean??? Surely if you made a good one it would be on a scum...? That's a pretty martyr-y post. I dunno I'm starting to lean more towards sloppy townplay on gumshoe right now (and I'm also noting the involvement of JJD and Mocsta pushing gumshoe now) but I want to go look at his recent scumgame right now. HF if you had to make a call right now one way or the other, red or green? U know as scum, when I want to get ppl off a scum buddy. I vote jump on them scummily. Case in point: PYP with Johnnywup In this game, I gave a sound reason for gumshoe. Further, I agree completely after a re-read that his post for calling me town was opportunistic and lacking in detail. Ironically I now prefer Chz position for calling me town. You know, as scum my agenda is to infiltrate town. Thats my goal every game as scum. As town, I dont have that care. Thats how you read me. The fact that half this game think I am scum, in indicative of me pushing the buttons I DONT as scum. My 6 scum games out of 8, should be indicative of this enough to be gospel. I don't understand, what is the reason for this post? If we should all know your scum meta why would you need to point it out and describe it all to us? Isn't the fact that you "know" your meta a good enough reason to throw your meta out of the window now? This post just leads to wifom and I find it hard to see where your aligns with you posting these defensive meta posts because the fact that you "needed" to post that infers that you do actually care what other people are thinking about you. If anything this is a more "infiltration" post because you're pointing out why you must be town, just like you tried to point it out with the JJD post earlier. Me no likey you
##Vote Mocsta If your argument is I was discussing how my scum meta is different to this game - makes me scum... then sure, I can accept that may hold water as an early day1 vote.
However, your argument was founded upon a comparison to me calling out WaveofShadow. There is no validity in this comparison. Full stop.
Frankly, I find your strawman argument completely over dramatised; and I find it hard to believe you would jump over the above with a vote, if town.
Having said that, you are the weakest of the 3 reads I listed prior.
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On February 26 2014 17:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So Mocsta why does your read on suki end up in null after a reread and then boombadaboom it's suddenly top 2 town?
I like her attitude after my callout.
I dont think a scum Suki had any need to maintain thread presence after I was getting hammered.
Also, on a reread, I agreed with JJD that Suki was actually relatively light hearted.
I completely misread that her dig on Toad was a retort to Toad calling her out, for example.
There one or two other minor things, but I dont think its important to discuss them right now.
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On February 26 2014 13:13 geript wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 26 2014 13:02 Mocsta wrote:@Geript Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:35 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 09:53 geript wrote:
The miller thing is a silly question. But super fast townread for bullshazazzle reasons. It's not a weird enough reason to call you town to make the observation likely come from town. Equally it's not obvious enough to be an alright soft read. It's just a completely random townread for no reason. That's super scummy. Apologies if this has been asked already. Red: Why is asking millers to claim stupid? Blue: Why is an random (unsubstantiated) town read, "super scummy". Is not the objective of scum to blend in and not put heat on themselves by doing these type of things that are "super scummy"? @Moc 1 Because there aren't millers. 2 A random unsubstantiated townread isn't super scummy automatically. Like, it's how you get there. For town there's a clear thought process no matter how good or bad. Rayn's good enough scum that he could 'fish back' as either alignment. Like it's a really simple thing for him to flat out say, "the miller fish response" for the townread thing and it's something really straight forward and I get. That type of response normally is pretty indicative of town, but how he responded initially had absolutely nothing to do with the miller thing. More importantly, the miller thing is only semi-alignment indicative for Rayn and not for Toad. The instatownread thing makes me feel even less confident about him. Like I don't get why he couldn't have explained the miller thing initially. 3 How people play scum is subjective. I don't think that everyone goes for the blendy-long-game type.
Geript,
I am having real trouble digesting your postings in general.
You feel like you are writing "off-the-cuff" but the thoughts dont seem coherent???
Can you explain why the miller thing is semi-alignment indicative for rayn, and not for toad.
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On February 26 2014 17:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 17:29 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 17:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So Mocsta why does your read on suki end up in null after a reread and then boombadaboom it's suddenly top 2 town? I like her attitude after my callout. I dont think a scum Suki had any need to maintain thread presence after I was getting hammered. Also, on a reread, I agreed with JJD that Suki was actually relatively light hearted. I completely misread that her dig on Toad was a retort to Toad calling her out, for example. There one or two other minor things, but I dont think its important to discuss them right now. No you literally reread him, even made a case that never ended up being a case because there were "townie things and scummy things so you ended up on a null read". Then, after suki has posted nothing at all after that, you say she is your #2 scumread. That's pure bullshit.
No, sometimes when you read filters, and posts are not quoted, its difficult to appreciate context.
I did the Suki filter dive before lunch.
I did a reread of the game after lunch.
What was my scumslip that you alluded to before.
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On February 26 2014 17:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No Mocsta, your read on suki makes no sense. Either you made a bullshit read when you called her null, or you are making a bullshit read on her now when you call her town. Either way those things are contradicting each other and that alone makes you mafia.
LOL.
So Im town if my reads dont evolve as the game progresses
and scum if my reads  O* evolve as the game progresses
Good luck getting me lynched with that argument.
Do you have a problem I listed Suki as town because of my history with Suki; or becuase you disagree?
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Rayn I hope you apply this read criteria to all players herewith
Gentlemen and 2 ladiesif rayn cannot follow your thought process intimately than YOU MUST be scum.
....
Hey wave, rayn is. Creating 2 options where I must be compartmentalized as scum.
How does this fit in with your prior theory that town should be inherently open to possibilities??
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On February 26 2014 17:59 TheChyz wrote:
@Moscta, because most of the cases one me are weak as hell and the only thing I agree with is that I had been making fairly soft cases early on and not pushing my reads.
And somehow once again you manage to not put your balls on the chopping block and commit to stating whether suki and I are scum reads. your responses falls direcrly inti my case, yet isnt a point worht discussing to you
Chortle
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3hrs and a reread
frankly when i wrote i think you are town i was struggling for choice of words
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choice refresh by the way hahah
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On February 26 2014 20:39 Holyflare wrote:
and your stance on the JJD thing was nothing to do with intimidation it's to do with the fact that you said to wave "even if it's not intimidation it gleans nothing about gumshoe's alignment", yet, in the next 2 pages of your filter the majority of it was nothing to do with discovering alignments and ALL to do with people "knowing" yours
the mafia mindset behind it is that you were under a lot of pressure in your mind and the first thing that goes through your mind was to post how you were playing to your town meta rather than your scum one and then jump on people that called you scum for reasoning you didn't understand rather than discuss it through to get people to have a different frame of mind on you and do more scum hunting. In fact, when I gave you the opportunity to explain your thought processes you said it's because you thought I was town and now you have completely backtracked on that and put me in your bottom 3 and so your explanation now holds 0 weight at all
my whole issue with wave was intimidation.
I dont care if you think otherwise.
regarding the second paragraph, i dont see where in the post you quoted i jumped on JJD.
further, as town I always change my reads actively. thats a known fact.
Further again, obviously we have a communication breakdown.
My usage of the word town ranges frmo 51% to 100% in other peoples scale.
My only "firm"/"strong" town read is Wave.
Im not even sure why ppl like rayn are stating Suki is my second strongest town read, she just happens to be the first person in my "townish" bracket.
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On February 26 2014 20:58 Holyflare wrote:
Mocsta you played with her a lot (coached?), what makes you lean town on her from what she's posted?
I have only chatted with her briefly in IRC.
Regarding my read change
#1 - I agreed on a reread she was relatively jovial early game
#2 - Whilst I would consider he approach to my accusations, scummy if level headed. I think she already was slightly on tilt at that point in time -- so its more difficult to use that action to indicate alignment
#3 -
On February 26 2014 10:46 suki wrote:I didn't really understand why toad and rayn called each other town, but it didn't strike me as completely odd. Certainly not scummy. Hmm Toad just replied with reasoning let me see. Show nested quote +Does anyone really think either mafia-Rayn or mafia-Toad would pass up on this chance to call the other one a retard? I don't think so. This is pretty much toad's reasoning on why rayn is town, pretty much a meta read. Which means nothing to me so I'll just wait for them to contribute more before coming to any conclusions.
This post indicates Suki is a meticulous player as far as im concerned (due to refreshing the thread prior to posting).
The fact that she evaluated her opinion based on completely fresh information to me is a pretty town thing to do given the context.
#4 - On February 26 2014 12:12 suki wrote:
I'm heading to bed. Mocsta is still my #1, I don't like TheChyz dodging my question and just sort of actively lurking.
I'll reread the thread in the morning and post more in depth reads then.
I also like the callout on Chz. I believe she was the first person to consider him.
The truly dumb thing about Rayns reaction to my adjustment on Suki is specifically the posts I commented on in my nullish read. I only ended up commenting on 2 posts, mainly because the others I didnt take issue with.
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On February 26 2014 21:12 Holyflare wrote:
So why does a meticulous player make her longest post so far to say that toad has said nothing and she'll wait and see? Meticulous players would play the same as either alignment, so why when you call me out for saying things that are alignment unindicative in your opinion do you then take something so meaningless and take that as alignment semi-indicative? Your a piece of shit HF.
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On February 26 2014 21:19 Holyflare wrote:I asked you 2 questions mocsta, why you hate me?  !
Because you're not trying to actually talk to me.
You're trying to provoke me; its pretty clear you are talking with me with a premeditated mindset.
So fuck off.
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On February 26 2014 21:25 Holyflare wrote:Toad why you writing so much to justify your read on geript who you are already voting for? This is what doesn't add up: Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 10:45 geript wrote:On February 26 2014 10:43 Toadesstern wrote:On February 26 2014 10:42 geript wrote:
Yup, I'm happy with my vote. so you knew about it but still came to the conclusion that the read is weird? Explain. ##vote geript Lets rolls this back a second. What about how I explained finding your read on Rayn was weird isn't making sense to you? Why are you using all of this to push geript when you thought he was scummy before you gave him the chance to explain? Explain and vote do not go together.
I dont get this from you HF.
Are you stating that are player can not campaign for a player to be lynched after hes voted them?
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On February 26 2014 21:12 Holyflare wrote:
So why does a meticulous player make her longest post so far to say that toad has said nothing and she'll wait and see? Meticulous players would play the same as either alignment, .....
since you wanted the first half responded to.
I dont get what your point is.
I used meticulous as a word choice to describe her refreshing the thread prior to posting - something i dont do as either alignment, but often regret.
Frankly. I dont know how to respond to your query, because I dont understand the issue in the first place.
In your world, a player can not make an observation?
Whilst we both agree Sukis "observation" did not progress the game forward, in my opinion, its a useless comment more likely to serve the purpose of a townie that thinks their opinino is valuable vs a scum trying to feign contribution.
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On February 26 2014 21:33 Holyflare wrote:
Have you even read suki's other games x_x???
Link them to me and I read !
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EPT
