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Cultured Mini Mafia - Page 3

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 02:37 GMT
#419
On February 26 2014 11:36 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 10:19 Mocsta wrote:
On thi 26 2014 10:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
Gumshoe just tell me now.
Am I going to have to policy lynch you for lurking this game?

If u r town I don't like at all what our doing.

Which is.
Crating an atmosphere of intimidation
If u think otherwise, surely you can admit that the above is not conducive to gleaning the alignment of gumshoe in the slightest


Gumshoe post was very reasonable and called me town for the right reasons.
Did u read a thing he wrote?

Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 11:33 Mocsta wrote:
On February 26 2014 11:31 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On February 26 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:
On February 26 2014 11:14 Mocsta wrote:
On February 26 2014 11:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
@moc
Anything you want to discuss?
Im drafting up my issues with Suki so feedback on that would be good when its released.

As an aside/observation/muse till then, I havent read in detail the interactions between Geript/Toad/Rayn (as I have been focussed on you + Suki) however I am finding Rayns approach to Toad odd (regardless of alignment). Basically I know Rayn doesnt respect Toads town play.

Red Herring or something to keep note of?

Nah I'm generally okay with it. I don't find it alignment indicative for Rayn.

Something JJD said reminded me of something:
On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:
Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that.

If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer?

In this post gumshoe doesn't offer the option that doesn't fit his idea of what suki is doing. (For example, she is neither AND is town.)
Town should always be considering all options.
I agree w/ this assesment. Also I find it odd that he seems to give moc a townread for some pretty terrible reasoning. Especially since IMO, moc has been acting pretty scummy.
So...

in Back to basics as both town, you found me scummy.
in GSL Mini IV as me scum you town... you found me townie.
in this game you find me scummy.... guess that means im town.

Congratz JJD.


Scum slip?
Are you now copying your early case on DP from vengeful?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 02:42 GMT
#425
On February 26 2014 11:40 Holyflare wrote:
You criticise Wave for saying some silly nonsense and saying if you're town why do that because it doesn't solve gumshoe's alignment or anything. Yet, same page of filter here you are saying nonsense to JJD who is bringing up points on other players. By your own reasoning townies shouldn't do that so why the change of heart so soon? Or are you sticking to what you said? "TOWN" don't do that!
JJd is bringing up points on me. He said *MY* actions were scummy.

What are you smoking.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 02:53 GMT
#434
On February 26 2014 11:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also Mocsta is idk for what reason trying to destroy good town atmosphere.

That hurts Rayn.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 02:54 GMT
#437
On February 26 2014 11:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 11:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I find Wave's vote on gumshoe to be absolute crap.

K Rayn, keep it up buddeh.

##Vote: Gumshoe

That last post reminded me a lot of how he talked to Bum in GSL IV
as if hes doing us a favour by gracing us with his presence.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 02:57 GMT
#442
hmmm started off by wanting to write a case on Suki but now ended up as nullish.

Anyways for reference:
+ Show Spoiler +

(1)
On February 26 2014 09:08 suki wrote:
Hey guys, so I moved my thing that I had tonight to Wednesday day/night so I'm here now.

I had to read my role pm a few times because it's kind of weird but anyways I'm Harry Potter. My power is I can shoot ##spells at people and make them do things. If we lynch correctly I learn new spells.

Right now my spell list is:

##Expeliarmus - Makes target sheeping player provide reasoning on their vote otherwise they have to unvote.
For me, if you want to fake claim, you just do it.
"I am HP, I have #spells" blah blah
.
The addition of "having to read my role pm a few times because it's kind of weird" is verbose and the type of fluff I find people write to make themselves feel safe with a lie <--- indicative of a mafia mindset.


(2)
On February 26 2014 09:38 Mocsta wrote:
Sukmi
U seem most out of place for me so far

Everyone else is relatively carefree whereas u seem more try hard - in particular your claim is overly worded

I get the history with toad, but your approach is not conducive towards gleaning alignment either
On February 26 2014 09:42 suki wrote:
So are you saying I'm scummy?
On February 26 2014 09:43 Mocsta wrote:
Scummiest so far, yes
On February 26 2014 09:47 suki wrote:
So then why isn't your vote on me?
On February 26 2014 09:55 Mocsta wrote:
This is an unusually passive aggressive approach for early game.-
And something I throw out as scum all the time.

Instead of trying to understand if my read on u is genuine or feigned, u play the psychological game and twist my lack of vote as something scummy. That diversion is it self very scummy.

Now suki, were u aware harry potter is not in the game??
On February 26 2014 10:01 suki wrote:
lol what.

##vote Mocsta

I never said anything you were doing so far was scummy, so who is twisting whose words? You, on the other hand, seem really intent on twisting the things I say to be scummy.

Also I'm Harry Potter, of course I'm in the game. (and for the record I'm a different Harry Potter than the game rayn linked).
I've read this exchange a couple times and come to the same conclusion... null.
I completely agree with what I wrote: "so then why isn't your vote on me?" is very passive aggressive for early Day1 and is a precursor to calling somebody scum.

HOWEVER, I can't shake the feeling that Suki is retorting emotionally/personally -- which ties in with being called not Suki prior -- and thus makes me consider this is a townie going passive aggressive based on anger.


(3)
The rest of the filter makes me lean town somewhat.


Im leaning towards I haven't communicated my position well, and Suki has interpreted me the wrong way.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 03:01 GMT
#445
On February 26 2014 11:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 11:52 Holyflare wrote:
So tram, if you can post try hard cases as either alignment, what significant reasoning do we have to believe that you are town this game? Why even post the caveat that you can do that as scum as well?

Also

or me making a good one because I felt I had to ( it's not that difficult to make anyone look scummy if you set your mind to it) and getting someone mislynched.


what does that mean??? Surely if you made a good one it would be on a scum...?

That's a pretty martyr-y post.

I dunno I'm starting to lean more towards sloppy townplay on gumshoe right now (and I'm also noting the involvement of JJD and Mocsta pushing gumshoe now) but I want to go look at his recent scumgame right now.

HF if you had to make a call right now one way or the other, red or green?

U know as scum, when I want to get ppl off a scum buddy. I vote jump on them scummily.
Case in point: PYP with Johnnywup

In this game, I gave a sound reason for gumshoe.
Further, I agree completely after a re-read that his post for calling me town was opportunistic and lacking in detail.
Ironically I now prefer Chz position for calling me town.


You know, as scum my agenda is to infiltrate town. Thats my goal every game as scum.
As town, I dont have that care. Thats how you read me.
The fact that half this game think I am scum, in indicative of me pushing the buttons I DONT as scum.
My 6 scum games out of 8, should be indicative of this enough to be gospel.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 03:02 GMT
#447
On February 26 2014 12:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Vote: WaveofShadow

watz the sekret?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 03:10 GMT
#461
On February 26 2014 12:04 TheChyz wrote:
Mocsta what is your reason for voting gumshoe? Surely not just "marketing crap" post you made. You don't really explain it much.
Guess I was supportive of Gumshoe originally because he gave me confidence at a time I felt I was against everyone active (i.e. Wave + Suki)

But in hindsight having read his reasoning for calling me town, its very generic but is written as fact.
Similar to how Gumshoe treated my scum claim in GSL (written very factually).

Then when reading stuff like the "marketing crap" thats indicative of the type of fluff I took issue with Suki in the first place.
The main difference was, Suki could be trolling etc as the post had no direct impact on the game.
Whereas gumshoe used the fluff to substantiate a push onto a read.

So yes, it is heavily related to the "marketing crap".

Regarding the martyr, I dont take value in that. These days, ppl can pull those cards as they please. Having played scum with Gumshoe recently, I know he is self-aware of his meta, so its not out of question that he could play the card as town or scum.
As town, if anything I think hes playing the card prematurely. But thats a personal opinion, and not something I would validate towards a read.


Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 03:11 GMT
#463
On February 26 2014 12:09 TheChyz wrote:
Also, why is my case better now (@Mocsta). Before you told me how "fallacious" it was. Why does it change now?

It still is fallacious.

But its written with the type of bias I imagine town would be more likely to admit in the thread.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 03:14 GMT
#465
On February 26 2014 12:08 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 12:01 Mocsta wrote:
On February 26 2014 11:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
On February 26 2014 11:52 Holyflare wrote:
So tram, if you can post try hard cases as either alignment, what significant reasoning do we have to believe that you are town this game? Why even post the caveat that you can do that as scum as well?

Also

or me making a good one because I felt I had to ( it's not that difficult to make anyone look scummy if you set your mind to it) and getting someone mislynched.


what does that mean??? Surely if you made a good one it would be on a scum...?

That's a pretty martyr-y post.

I dunno I'm starting to lean more towards sloppy townplay on gumshoe right now (and I'm also noting the involvement of JJD and Mocsta pushing gumshoe now) but I want to go look at his recent scumgame right now.

HF if you had to make a call right now one way or the other, red or green?

U know as scum, when I want to get ppl off a scum buddy. I vote jump on them scummily.
Case in point: PYP with Johnnywup

In this game, I gave a sound reason for gumshoe.
Further, I agree completely after a re-read that his post for calling me town was opportunistic and lacking in detail.
Ironically I now prefer Chz position for calling me town.


You know, as scum my agenda is to infiltrate town. Thats my goal every game as scum.
As town, I dont have that care. Thats how you read me.
The fact that half this game think I am scum, in indicative of me pushing the buttons I DONT as scum.
My 6 scum games out of 8, should be indicative of this enough to be gospel.


I don't understand, what is the reason for this post? If we should all know your scum meta why would you need to point it out and describe it all to us? Isn't the fact that you "know" your meta a good enough reason to throw your meta out of the window now? This post just leads to wifom and I find it hard to see where your

Show nested quote +
"As town, I dont have that care. Thats how you read me."


aligns with you posting these defensive meta posts because the fact that you "needed" to post that infers that you do actually care what other people are thinking about you. If anything this is a more "infiltration" post because you're pointing out why you must be town, just like you tried to point it out with the JJD post earlier.

Me no likey you

##Vote Mocsta

LOL

if this is your town play, no wonder you only won the champsionship whilst scum.

Your trying too hard to find connections that arent true HF.
When you stop looking at keywords, and start considering the whole parapgrah, you will realise, that to infiltrate as per my mantra, would mean outright as scum I wouldnt make a post like that.

Of course im aware of my meta, who isnt. I might adjust my game as in how I post etc to satisfy other players.. but the core intent remains the same.

You should know this.... mr champion.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 03:15 GMT
#467
I really dont get the issues here.

A lot of people are saying im playing suspcious, but noone has outlined what the problem is? (in my opinion)
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 03:18 GMT
#469
On February 26 2014 12:16 Holyflare wrote:
Yeh, I'm quite happy where my vote is.

So, you are happy that your scum read has posted so brazenly that within a span of 2hrs you have identified multiple "contradictions".

Congratulations HF, with scum hunting like this, the game is over before it started.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 03:21 GMT
#474
gumbo,

i voted ya too.

I know my accusations are not directly said to you, but, any reason you not commenting on those?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 03:35 GMT
#483
On February 26 2014 09:53 geript wrote:
The miller thing is a silly question. But super fast townread for bullshazazzle reasons. It's not a weird enough reason to call you town to make the observation likely come from town. Equally it's not obvious enough to be an alright soft read. It's just a completely random townread for no reason. That's super scummy.

Apologies if this has been asked already.

Red: Why is asking millers to claim stupid?
Blue: Why is an random (unsubstantiated) town read, "super scummy".
Is not the objective of scum to blend in and not put heat on themselves by doing these type of things that are "super scummy"?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 03:58 GMT
#503
##Unvote
Games a cluster for me right now and gumshoe tugged at the right heartstrings.

Sigh.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 04:01 GMT
#506
On February 26 2014 12:31 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 12:18 Mocsta wrote:
On February 26 2014 12:16 Holyflare wrote:
Yeh, I'm quite happy where my vote is.

So, you are happy that your scum read has posted so brazenly that within a span of 2hrs you have identified multiple "contradictions".

Congratulations HF, with scum hunting like this, the game is over before it started.


Ok, I'll humour you. Explain to me why you get all on wave for posting his gumshoe policy meaningless post and telling him how if he's town he isn't being conducive to finding gumshoe's alignment

Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 10:19 Mocsta wrote:
On thi 26 2014 10:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
Gumshoe just tell me now.
Am I going to have to policy lynch you for lurking this game?

If u r town I don't like at all what our doing.

Which is.
Crating an atmosphere of intimidation
If u think otherwise, surely you can admit that the above is not conducive to gleaning the alignment of gumshoe in the slightest

Gumshoe post was very reasonable and called me town for the right reasons.
Did u read a thing he wrote?



but then the past page and a half of your filter is all self-meta posts and chastising me for having a scum read on you (peppered slightly with gumshoe/suki stuff)? What kind of environment are you trying to create and if it's a townies best interest to glean information from others sensible posts why are you berating me instead of questioning why I have those reads?
I'm prob treating you differently because I think you are town and thats my way of dealing with you whether right or wrong.

I fail to see from any of this why its mafia mindset specific.

I haven't read RSM since we played it, so no idea if its reminiscent I doubt it given my care factor for that game was zilch.

As I said in my first post, I had high hopes for this game when I got my town pm. Then I lost my phone in the train tracks which put a considerable dent into the day. Am I making an emotional play here, no I am not. Im am merely giving context for where my care factor is today even given my shitty start to the day. Hot Tip, its pretty high.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 04:02 GMT
#507
@Geript

On February 26 2014 12:35 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 09:53 geript wrote:
The miller thing is a silly question. But super fast townread for bullshazazzle reasons. It's not a weird enough reason to call you town to make the observation likely come from town. Equally it's not obvious enough to be an alright soft read. It's just a completely random townread for no reason. That's super scummy.

Apologies if this has been asked already.

Red: Why is asking millers to claim stupid?
Blue: Why is an random (unsubstantiated) town read, "super scummy".
Is not the objective of scum to blend in and not put heat on themselves by doing these type of things that are "super scummy"?

Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 07:32 GMT
#623
Vivax

Does this mean you think I am town?
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 07:34 GMT
#624
Caught up and re-read

Current reads:

Wave
Suki
Gumshoe
Calvalinho
toadesstern

ange777
jarjardrinks
vivax
geript

Holyflare
thechyz
rayn


Will expound in a bit. swamped @ work.
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
February 26 2014 08:10 GMT
#632
Issues with TheChyz

+ Show Spoiler +
On February 26 2014 10:51 TheChyz wrote:
Hi all. Mocsta seems pretty town to me atm. In his last game (as scum, GSL open mini) his contributions in the middle of day 2 or 3 were worse than they seem right now.

geript, why is it unlikely that rayn and toad can't be scum together?
Reading this a few times I take issue not with calling me town, but by him making a reference to the quality of my contributions. This suggests he agrees somewhat with the Suki read (which was my only contribution at the point in time). The rest of his filter lethargically references Suki once.

On February 26 2014 10:53 TheChyz wrote:
Nothing to do with reads, just the way your playing. Back in that game it seemed like you and vivax/kush were just posting to fill up the thread and waste the day. Here it seems more like your actually trying to scum hunt. That combined with the fact you haven't claimed scum yet
Firstly, Vivax/Kush were town, so the comparison is not apples to apples - as has already been discussed.
Secondly, perhaps you can tie "trying to scum hunt" with the contributions discussed above. However, again, this indicates that either TheChyz agrees with my read (a la Gumshoe) or thinks my motives are genuine. Which is important to keep in mind later.

On February 26 2014 11:16 TheChyz wrote:
Ionno suki, are you going to come in and provide any attempt at reads or just ask questions all day long?

As per your question, I have hunches on some things, but nothing I feel is actually worth saying atm.
Here, TheChyz casually queries Suki indicating that he does not share my read. The question posed will not provide any alignment indicative response either.
Further, TheChyz is now dangling the "active lurker" carrot; which is odd, considering of all the things he chose to talk about, he wanted to discuss me as a town read -- when I wasn't under any specific heat either.

On February 26 2014 11:20 TheChyz wrote:
I'm not sure if this is because this is how he plays but holyflare has been making jokes all day 1. Seems like an easy way to get a free pass on the first day if everybody just knows your gonna joke around. The time for joking 24/7 is over I think, is there anything useful you plan on doing this day holyflare, or just gonna draw some more?
The timing of this post just feel premature and the stance is odd. On one hand it is berating Holyflare for joking; on the other hand, its not asking HF to particpate in any direction that will improve our read on him. Its essentially a slap on the wrist post with no further intent.

On February 26 2014 12:46 TheChyz wrote:
To me it seems more like JJD has only tunneled on Mocsta for a read that mocsta made on suki. Apart from that he has done nothing really after that.
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 11:42 JarJarDrinks wrote:
On February 26 2014 11:33 Mocsta wrote:
So...

in Back to basics as both town, you found me scummy.
in GSL Mini IV as me scum you town... you found me townie.
in this game you find me scummy.... guess that means im town.

Congratz JJD.
Lol, I thought rayn was the only person I always read backwards.


But actually, I'm starting to come around on you being town because I feel like gumshoe is using you to try and get suki lynched.

Like I think u've been acting kinda scummy mostly because of ur suki read. But it's way scummier to call you town and sheep that case.

Also in bold, I have never as town thought "does calling you something make me look scummy". It's only something scum usually worries about.
The phrasing is not fluid or natural to me.
Regarding fluidity: I think this would be written "Also in bold, as town I never have thought "xxxx"
Regarding natural: I know when I've rolled scum, i often write a statement, proof read and then go.. ahh.. let me add "when town" typically at the end.
This feels very much the same. i.e. the "as town" component is a last addition designed to give strength to the argument.

On February 26 2014 14:42 TheChyz wrote:
I don't think he's mafia, but I do think this sentence "But it's way scummier to call you town and sheep that case" is scummy. He is addressing himself to mocsta and basically saying (or this is how I read it, maybe misinterpreted) that if he [JJD] calls Mocsta town and sheeps that case it will make him [JJD] look scummier. And I don't understand why a town would be afraid of having a "scummier" image. If you are town, you know your intent was not scummy and you can give an explanation out of it. However if your scum it seems more likely that you are afraid of your image.
This post has already been commented by others and I agree. Its an unusual position to take. Normally you would just say "hes null".

On February 26 2014 16:38 TheChyz wrote:
kk. With geript I still have a problem of how he was so quick to say that rayn and toad couldn't be scum together. There was no explanation why he made that conclusion until I finally made him answer with
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 12:33 geript wrote:
On February 26 2014 12:26 TheChyz wrote:
Hey geript I'm not a moron you know. My memory lasts more than a few minutes. Would you mind explain why rayn and toad can't be scum together. (for the third time...)

A few things. One is how chummy they are early makes it unlikely they'd be together. Second, Rayn is probably town for his geript cop joke; it took me like 3 minutes to get that one. Third, I like Rayn's WoS vote and minor push; WoS has been trolling really weird to start off with and isn't his usual witty self. Fourth, they wouldn't both likely push back against me as scum together this early. Like I'm apparently unreadable to people which is totally crazy in my mind.



All of these points are terrible. It seems more like he just put out some random statement and after being asked to answer on it it seems like he is backtracking. See how he goes to make several points. Not only does it seem like he is trying to be over defensive but that most of them are just a big pile of poop. Let's go over the points:
1) I don't even know what chummy means but it seems like the way you guys are acting early on. Again that doesn't really say anything and is something anybody can say about almost anything.
2) He is backtracking to a joke rayn made that makes him town? Well shit i think he just solved mafia. People making jokes = town. I don't understand the context but I believe that is irrelevant.
3) I don't even understand this one. Something again that rayn is towny to him.
4) Saying how its unlikely for something to happen which does not seem unlikely at all.

In all of these points, NOTHING again answers why he think rayn and toad cannot be scum together. If anything it seems more like he is developing a rayn town read. This all seems like a load of backtracking and most likely hoping that he wouldn't get called out for his words before hand.

Apart from that everything else just has no effort to even try and scum hunt. Thought he was kinda scummy but not this scummy until re-reading his filter now.

##Vote geript
The important thing to note is that previously TheChyz stated he would only comment if something is wroth commenting on. So why... is he so fixated on someone calling "Rayn/Toad" town.
He seems to refuse to accept they can both be town; yet, hasnt given a direct indication of his read on either player.
Very scummy.



In summary:
Overall, TheChyz arguments have been weak and offer no insight into his thought process.
He is calling out people prematurely (e.g. Holyflare + Rayn/Toad) yet doesnt indicatve whether he reads those players town or scum.
He also prematurely calls me town when not under fire for my scumhunting, yet doesnt seem to support my reads.
Lastly, he goes out of his way to dodge questions (e.g. to Suki).

Now, TheChyz could be super paranoid town that doesnt want to give away information. HOWEVER, I dont attribute his posting as giving that vibe. I suppose this is epitomised by:
On February 26 2014 14:31 TheChyz wrote:
Typo seen ^ *gumshoe is currently set to be lynched*. Just found that funny since so much talk has been about him

This is a guy that is intentionally trying to dodge giving out any insight AND THAT is scummy.
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