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On February 27 2014 04:27 JarJarDrinks wrote:
vivax, how do you feel about Chyz or the people voting him? I find it odd that you haven't mentioned him despite the fact that he's got 4 votes on him right now.
I'd rather find it odd/scummy if I had mentioned the vote-leader and not anyone else. Leave no stone unturned.
I don't think he's scum at the moment. I'd rather not expand on the reasons cause:
1. I could be wrong and I'd be taking away pressure from him.
2. I prefer to focus on the people I find suspicious.
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On February 27 2014 04:50 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 04:37 Vivax wrote:On February 27 2014 04:27 JarJarDrinks wrote:
vivax, how do you feel about Chyz or the people voting him? I find it odd that you haven't mentioned him despite the fact that he's got 4 votes on him right now. I'd rather find it odd/scummy if I had mentioned the vote-leader and not anyone else. Leave no stone unturned. I don't think he's scum at the moment. I'd rather not expand on the reasons cause: 1. I could be wrong and I'd be taking away pressure from him. 2. I prefer to focus on the people I find suspicious. lol right off the bat that's pretty awful. You'd rather focus on the people you find scummy, except they're not around right now so you have nothing further to push as you've said yourself. Why not comment on Chyz?
People in glasshouses and stones, that's all I have to say to this post. It's no surprise you're one of my scumspects (now officially) when you now accuse me of something you're guilty of yourself. How is Chyz a person of interest to you if you never seem to mention him in your own posts yourself?
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On February 27 2014 05:01 WaveofShadow wrote:
Where did I say I thought Chyz was scummy?
I said the pressure on him is interesting and as he is an important topic I should look into him.
You seem to be avoiding it specifically.
Yes, where did you say anything alignment-related about Chyz? I didn't say that you claimed to find him scummy, I said that you are guilty of your own accusation, since you have been avoiding the matter yourself.
I would understand if somebody found me suspicious cause I was avoiding talking about one of his scumspects.
But in this case, you attacked me for "avoiding" (I actually did give my opinion on his alignment) without you formerly showing particular interest into him, which is something that makes no sense from townie perspective, since you shouldn't be really suspicious of people avoiding guys you didn't form an opinion on yet.
That wouldn't have been inherently scummy if you actually had taken a hard stance in the issue (like JJD) before attacking me for that, cause that would have warranted your particular interest in hearing of him from other people (an interest so particular that it raises your suspicion), allowing to elaborate the information in light of your own judgement about Chyz.
Besides, how can you draw the line between avoiding and not showing interest into somebody? Saying that I avoid somebody already puts the premise there that what I do is supposed to be scummy, which reflects a possible agenda to paint me as scummy.
No, I didn't read all of it at that point. I just found that post scummy and wrote the points right off the bat.
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On February 27 2014 05:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
Fucking school internet
Vivax difference between you and me is I haven't looked into chyz yet but I want to, as it is relevant to thread interest right now. I don't take a stance on him yet because it doesn't make sense for me to have one before reading. You give a read based on.....? And then refuse to elaborate further.
Those two things are most certainly not the same thing.
Can you explain to me how you can find me suspicious for not-scumreading a guy you didn't even look into yet?
You want to hear reasons for him being something when you don't even know what he wrote?
What would you do with these reasons when you didn't even reach any own conclusions you could compare the information with?
But you're suspicious cause I give reasons for not talking about my read on him when you give out reads for "feels"?
##Vote WaveOfShadow
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Here's a chronology of posts that displays something being foul about gum and WoS.
On February 26 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:14 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
@moc
Anything you want to discuss? Im drafting up my issues with Suki so feedback on that would be good when its released. As an aside/observation/muse till then, I havent read in detail the interactions between Geript/Toad/Rayn (as I have been focussed on you + Suki) however I am finding Rayns approach to Toad odd (regardless of alignment). Basically I know Rayn doesnt respect Toads town play. Red Herring or something to keep note of? Nah I'm generally okay with it. I don't find it alignment indicative for Rayn. Something JJD said reminded me of something: Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:
Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that.
If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer? In this post gumshoe doesn't offer the option that doesn't fit his idea of what suki is doing. (For example, she is neither AND is town.)
Town should always be considering all options.
In fact, gumshoe IS offering the alternate scenario where suki isn't scum, and offering her the explanations for her behaviour in that case, hence WoS is actually stating the contrary to what I stated. He says town should be considering all options, I say if you find somebody scummy you don't call it out and then put an explanation out there that the accused can use against your own argument.
I'm reading this as if WoS wants to say that what gumshoe is doing is scummy, when in fact he's doing the contrary of what WoS states. He is actually considering all options, if you put it in WoS' way.
On February 26 2014 11:32 WaveofShadow wrote:
Wormhole.
Gumshoe, let's get a read from you on someone that doesn't depend mostly/solely on meta.
He asks gumshoe to not use meta. Gumshoe won't deliver.
On February 26 2014 11:41 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:40 Holyflare wrote:On February 26 2014 11:37 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:36 Holyflare wrote:On February 26 2014 10:19 Mocsta wrote:On thi 26 2014 10:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
Gumshoe just tell me now.
Am I going to have to policy lynch you for lurking this game? If u r town I don't like at all what our doing.
Which is.
Crating an atmosphere of intimidation
If u think otherwise, surely you can admit that the above is not conducive to gleaning the alignment of gumshoe in the slightestGumshoe post was very reasonable and called me town for the right reasons. Did u read a thing he wrote? On February 26 2014 11:33 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:31 JarJarDrinks wrote:On February 26 2014 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 26 2014 11:14 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
@moc
Anything you want to discuss? Im drafting up my issues with Suki so feedback on that would be good when its released. As an aside/observation/muse till then, I havent read in detail the interactions between Geript/Toad/Rayn (as I have been focussed on you + Suki) however I am finding Rayns approach to Toad odd (regardless of alignment). Basically I know Rayn doesnt respect Toads town play. Red Herring or something to keep note of? Nah I'm generally okay with it. I don't find it alignment indicative for Rayn. Something JJD said reminded me of something: On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:
Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that.
If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer? In this post gumshoe doesn't offer the option that doesn't fit his idea of what suki is doing. (For example, she is neither AND is town.) Town should always be considering all options. I agree w/ this assesment. Also I find it odd that he seems to give moc a townread for some pretty terrible reasoning. Especially since IMO, moc has been acting pretty scummy. So... in Back to basics as both town, you found me scummy. in GSL Mini IV as me scum you town... you found me townie. in this game you find me scummy.... guess that means im town. Congratz JJD. Scum slip? Are you now copying your early case on DP from vengeful? You criticise Wave for saying some silly nonsense and saying if you're town why do that because it doesn't solve gumshoe's alignment or anything. Yet, same page of filter here you are saying nonsense to JJD who is bringing up points on other players. By your own reasoning townies shouldn't do that so why the change of heart so soon? Or are you sticking to what you said? "TOWN" don't do that! Hypocrisy doesn't necessarily come from scum, you know that. I do want to hear Mocsta's response though. ##Vote: gumshoe
Votes before gumshoe even answers.
On February 26 2014 11:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I find Wave's vote on gumshoe to be absolute crap.
Rayn raises the FOS.
On February 26 2014 11:49 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:32 WaveofShadow wrote:
Wormhole.
Gumshoe, let's get a read from you on someone that doesn't depend mostly/solely on meta. , if I see something scummy I will let you know. I have pointed out a few things that have intrigued me because I felt they would generate discussion, and kept back a few others because it is early in the game and I rather see them unfold on there own. If your worried about contribution from me, don't be, I love posting try hard cases when I have them( and I will have them, I assure you that) even as scum. I will contribute when I have something to contribute. I am not going to call you out as scum just because your pressuring me ( not a bad thing on in of itself) but understand that rushing me to produce something that doesn't exist is likely to result in either me getting picked apart for a sloppy play( Something you've been witness to often enough) or me making a good one because I felt I had to ( it's not that difficult to make anyone look scummy if you set your mind to it) and getting someone mislynched.
Upon metaless case request, gumshoe refuses, gives reasons.
On February 26 2014 11:56 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:52 Holyflare wrote:So tram, if you can post try hard cases as either alignment, what significant reasoning do we have to believe that you are town this game? Why even post the caveat that you can do that as scum as well? Also or me making a good one because I felt I had to ( it's not that difficult to make anyone look scummy if you set your mind to it) and getting someone mislynched.
what does that mean??? Surely if you made a good one it would be on a scum...? That's a pretty martyr-y post. I dunno I'm starting to lean more towards sloppy townplay on gumshoe right now (and I'm also noting the involvement of JJD and Mocsta pushing gumshoe now) but I want to go look at his recent scumgame right now. HF if you had to make a call right now one way or the other, red or green?
And after rayn raises the FOS and gumshoe replied something that doesn't fulfill WoS wishes, he not only doesn't keep inquiring, he even goes as far as giving him a townread.
Now look at how WoS treats me when I don't give him what he wants about the current lynch candidate. It's a day and night difference in how he treats a gumshoe scumspect and a vivax scumspect.
Rayn, I'm surprised you dropped WoS so quickly after all of this happened.
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On February 27 2014 06:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's the difference in how Wave handles scumspects Vivax/gumshoe?
You are not really pointing out what it is.
WoS votes gumshoe, asks for metaless case. Gumshoe says he has some stuff at hand but waits for it to unfold. WoS becomes entirely disinterested into his request and gives him a townread.
JJD asks me about Chyz, I say I have a not-scumread, but I won't expand on it cause it would be counterproductive in my eyes for the aforementioned reasons. According to WoS I am withholding information from town and scummy.
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And now that you've looked at those posts and the townread WoS gave gumshoe after ONE post, gumshoe writes this:
I fail to see your issue, what's more in past games we've played, you were aware of my lurker meta yet never treated me as hostilely as this. Have I pissed you off somehow? Because you came out of the gates swinging at me ( a target so easy that if I'm not being attacked I'm probably scum) and you haven't stopped, using every bit I post to reinforce your baseless confirmation bias.
How does this make any sense??? WoS has been treating gumshoe as if he'd die from a slap on the wrist, and gumshoe goes all victim-mode.
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After rereading GSL IV I gotta say that I find gumshoe a lot less scummy. Basically all he has been doing in that game was justifying for people he could lynch, summarizing stuff and defending himself.
Here he actively participates in discussions, and I'm confident in stating that the post tone is a lot different.
Doesn't change where I stand with WoS though. Multiple of his actions don't make sense from a town point of view, him abandoning the gumshoe vote so quickly, suspecting me for not commenting on a player he doesn't know anything about, the not delivered look at a gumshoe scumgame he promised.
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On February 27 2014 05:01 geript wrote:
He's referring to JJD's interaction with Mocsta about Mocsta phoneposting Sukmi instead of Suki where Suki responds and JJD gets in there a bit Moc. It shows that Wave is connecting various points together at once; like his mind is bouncing around instead of specifically looking for something he can latch onto. That fact is not only supertown but like super super town for WoS as well.
I could go on further to explain but there's no point in doing further right now.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/haZd1Wl.jpg)
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I'll sheep ya, Rayn.
I want to add a few points though.
Filterskim reveals a very passive Mocsta, no cases on people he believes to be scum since he has been put into the defensive.
What I also don't understand is how he townreads WoS out of nowhere. He looked scummy to you, he looks scummy to me, and for him it's the strongest townread, and then he asks a question like this, which shouldn't interest him in the slightest if he's town imo:
On February 27 2014 01:30 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 01:28 geript wrote:
Toadescum. Idgaf what you think or ever thought about claiming miller. It's trolly regardless and I wish Palmar were here to help lynch you. Where do you stand with Wave currently?
##Unvote
##Vote Mocsta
Putting WoS on the backfire for now. Mocsta is a more solid (and likely) lynch.
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Chyz I have a question
And somethings on mocsta but I have to re-read his filter to see what. Mostly I just remember his very jumpy nature from a target to another and his vote is very weak in my opinion.
Can you go into detail on why you found the vote very weak at the time? Mind you that this post triggered Mocs vote on you.
Also do you think Moc or geript is a better lynch today?
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Imagine you're scum and a townie defends you thinking you're town.
Imagine you're town and a townie defends you when you're not really at acute danger
Imagine you're town and a scum defends you.
All alternatives aren't really attractive except for the scum party involved, except when you're at realistic danger of being lynched, which you weren't.
Shouting your townreads out loud without need only helps scum in picking their targets, for the nightkill and for lynches. They will know who they can push safely without facing resistance and who they have to NK.
Besides, town shouldn't spend time circlejerking around why somebody is town in such situations, but why somebody is scum. Of course it's situational, and in your case I didn't feel the need to redeem you from anything to find scum. I simply didn't find you scummy like others did, and that's all town needs to know.
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On February 27 2014 08:20 TheChyz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 08:03 Vivax wrote:Chyz I have a question
And somethings on mocsta but I have to re-read his filter to see what. Mostly I just remember his very jumpy nature from a target to another and his vote is very weak in my opinion.
Can you go into detail on why you found the vote very weak at the time? Mind you that this post triggered Mocs vote on you. Also do you think Moc or geript is a better lynch today? I believe that was when his vote was on gumshoe. Basically he was agreeing with gumshoe all game until this post. Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:37 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:
Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that.
If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer? hmm I didnt get WoS point about and/or But rereading this from JJD post, I noticed something stick out to me. The stuff in red/blue is the biggest load of marketing crap I have read in this game so far. So nothing on gumshoe all game long and suddenly he doesn't like his marketting crap? And then later ironically he unvotes gumshoe for "pulling on his strings". Kinda ironic since the marketing crap talks "How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them".
And the conclusion is?You want to feed rope to moc or geript?
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On February 27 2014 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am kinda into Mocsta, geript idk, maybe gumshoe mafia?
Did you compare gumshoe's meta to GSL? Feels a lot different to me.
Agree on geript though.
I'd throw WoS in there though, still gotta hear from ange7, and I wouldn't discount suki yet, but I still got to dive her filter. Did I miss anyone else?
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Rayn how confident are you that HF is town? Didn't like those questions he asked me back then. I felt like he wanted me to say obvious stuff.
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Consider all I said about townreads nullified. I just wanna talk about what I want now.
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That post kinda makes me more confident that he's scum. He doesn't fight back.
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On February 27 2014 09:24 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 09:20 Vivax wrote:
That post kinda makes me more confident that he's scum. He doesn't fight back. Opposite for me ) : Mocsta would be a lot more spiteful here as scum, shit like "lol, this town sucks" here he just sounds sad, first time he roles town in ages and hes day 1 lynched.
Wat³
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I thought you were town cause you sounded a lot more confident than in GSL, but now you sound TOO confident gum.
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"I don't talk to people when they aren't around". No, just no. You asked me why I wasn't asking gumshoe stuff like I did to geript, and that's cause there was no point in asking short questions to gum without the chance of getting an immediate answer. Don't overgeneralize or take things out of context.
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EPT
