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GSL Open Mini Mafia IV - Page 6

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 10:15 GMT
#909
gumshoe actually looks pretty town from that megapost.

-extended reasoning tryring to understand mocsta's scumclaim.
-his reads have good reasons behind them
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 10:45 GMT
#911
yeah rob i agree lol. nvm what i said. i didn't actually read the post.
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 10:47 GMT
#912
it is weird that gumshoe doesn't even consider the possibility that mocsta is trolling, and then bases literally all of his reads on that.
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 10:54 GMT
#914
On February 16 2014 19:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
kush can you explain the shiaopi meta stuff from earlier


he is kind of playfully aggro at the beginning of the game. For a lot of people this is an automatic towntell but shiaopi does the same EXACT thing as scum. He is very comfortable calling people scummy early game for very little reasoning as scum.

Scum shiaopi is a dbag. He's is very accusatory and he insults people.
Town shiaopi is contemplative and not very quick to call people scum.

At least some of that is true. I didn't do a ton of meta research. But just reading some of his scum and town games, you can see his tone is totally different and this game he has an unmistakably scummy tone.
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 11:25 GMT
#915
On February 16 2014 19:05 thrawn2112 wrote:
does anyone think mordanis is town


Currently going with either very biased townie or scum. Not sure yet. His whole case on me is based on the premises that 1. You are town (considering how he found us suspicious for attacking you when he shouldn't know your alignment, something that I think scum is more likely to do)
2. Me and Robik are scum together, and that very early in the game. He doesn't say it out loud when asked by thrawn (I'll mention that soon), but it seems to be what he thought when he posted:

it feels like teamwork or opportunistic scum play...


Gonna tell you what I don't like:
+ Show Spoiler +

On February 13 2014 09:06 Mordanis wrote:
I've got to go to class for a while, but before I go, I just wanted to elaborate on my previous feelings.

I think the abortive case had some momentum for a second against thrawn is very suspicious. The way Rob voted for Thrawn for lurking, and then !Hey Presto!, vivax comes in showing that thrawn is apparently well known for being lurky as scum, well it all seems very wrong. vivax backed down almost immediately, and Rob stayed the course until thrawn started talking. Now vivax left without any more reads after that. Rob did the *exact* opposite, posting a lot and picking up a read (based on thrawn's thoughts and a joke). Essentially what I'm trying to say here is that the behavior between the two of these definitely warrants more investigation.

On vivax
I really don't like the way that vivax posted fluff, gave someone else evidence to start a case, and then left it all alone for everyone else to take care of, and then disappeared right afterwards. And then there's this post:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 06:17 VIVAX420 wrote:
On February 13 2014 06:16 IAmRobik wrote:
People try to shush me when I play live games cause I talk to much...but in these games I'm free to provide all the content that I want!


do you talk a lot as scum too?

vivax goes from one hell of a scum read on thrawn (without really pushing anything) to one hell of a town read on Robik (without telling us why). In short, vivax seems incredibly confident about being right but hasn't really done anything useful aside from helping another player make a case. That seems like as much of a scum mindset as you can get.



I think the abortive case had some momentum for a second against thrawn is very suspicious. The way Rob voted for Thrawn for lurking, and then !Hey Presto!, vivax comes in showing that thrawn is apparently well known for being lurky as scum, well it all seems very wrong. vivax backed down almost immediately, and Rob stayed the course until thrawn started talking. Now vivax left without any more reads after that. Rob did the *exact* opposite, posting a lot and picking up a read (based on thrawn's thoughts and a joke). Essentially what I'm trying to say here is that the behavior between the two of these definitely warrants more investigation.


I see the bolded observations, but no conclusion that would make sense. Only "gotta take a closer look at this". What I find alarming is that he doesn't draw conclusions from the part where me and Rob have opposite reactions. I don't understand why he would mention it if it has no weight on his conclusions. If anything it should convey that Rob is town and I am scum, but he ends the post in a way that doesn't fit.

"Look here, this guy reacts the exact opposite" "Well, this needs further investigation".

On February 13 2014 23:58 Mordanis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2014 18:53 thrawn2112 wrote:
Mordanis did you reach any conclusions about robik? I can't tell if you're trying to sell both robik/vivax as a scum team or if you thought robik could be mafia purely based off of his own play.


I'm not going after Robik at present. I felt something was off between the two that warranted further investigation, which has led me to believe that vivax is the scummier of the two. Right now, I'm not exactly feeling incredibly rushed to get a lynch in the next few hours, so I'm curious to see the way kush plays vivax.


The way in which he answers you here completely misses the point. You wanted to know if he thinks me and robik are scum together, or if he thought that it could have been robik alone. He delivers a pretty nervous answer, something inbetween: "I think they both looked scummy, but Vivax scummier, but I want to see how Kush plays".

From all of this I'm kinda getting the feeling that his suspicions are fabricated. Later he even gets interested into your meta, when at start he disregarded it to attack me and Robik. It's like his interest into you awakened once people called out his lack of suspicion towards you.

On February 14 2014 16:54 Mordanis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2014 13:34 VIVAX420 wrote:
thrawn timeline:
lurk scumstyle
start tryharding because vivax caught him
continue to lurk when the pressure goes down

As per my last post, could someone who knows thrawn let me know if this isa reasonable case or not?


Why couldn't he ask if somebody can confirm that playstyle of yours at the start of the game? Instead he preferred to attack us, but later posts this:


I thought (and still do) that, if there is a strong meta case against someone who has played many games on TL, there will be several games that will show this pattern, and multiple people will be able to verify that the meta case is reasonable.


An opinion that is not consistent with the way he treated that meta information earlier.

I think that he changed his behaviour in this category (how he treats thrawn and the meta arguments) upon being called out for not suspecting thrawn enough during his early attacks (by me and thrawn himself).

Rayn then tried to shut down the argument by asking me why I don't suspect him for doing the same. Except that Rayn called the meta case shit in the first place, while Mordanis completely ignored it (in contrast to his official opinion on meta) and went for connection- and timing-based stuff.


~V
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 11:52 GMT
#916
Moc, why did you want to lynch Shiao again?
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 13:43 GMT
#919
On February 16 2014 21:41 roundabound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2014 20:52 VIVAX420 wrote:
Moc, why did you want to lynch Shiao again?

Can't remember.

I like the stuff Vivax posted on Mordanis though. Either terribly bad, or scum struggling to make meaningful posts.

At this stage, I don't care if hes terribly bad, so gonna go with scum.

##Unvote
##Vote: Mordanis


Lets just get a hammer on someone.

~moc


he is a newbie who hasn't played in a very long time.
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 13:44 GMT
#920
mordanis - TOWN
He is a super noob. Yes his cases are bad but newb scum would not be able to make those cases.
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 13:46 GMT
#921
also mocsta wtf is that vote?? vivax's conclusion was: i dunno. Yet you vote out of no where.

Yo get some fuckign patience please dude. You don't need to act like a total troll/nub just because you aren't used to long days. Stop voting not giving a shit who you vote for and play the game non shittily.
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 13:52 GMT
#923
i actually love posts like that mocsta
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 13:58 GMT
#924
Everyone read this post. Rob thinks it's scummy because gumshoe bases all his reads on mocsta's scumclaim being true.

I'm not so sure, though. I think scum wouldn't be so cavalier in believing a claim they knew was a troll.

On February 16 2014 17:20 gumshoe wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Haro! So I've pretty much blitzed through the thread, but obviously the most recent event eclipses everything that came before it so I've reconfigured most of my reads in light of it. The only reason I can see Moc quitting like he has is if he feels like his scum team has completely failed him, which he straight up acknowledges in the case of Rayn. Gives me the sense that most of his scum team are incompetent and already under pressure. I also dont think hed reveal like this if there were one or two members of his team on at his time of confession, which would be a bit of a dick move, this tentatively clears Grack( who I had pinged as null) thrawn(his posting aggravates me a smidge just like in the last serius game we played, so probs town) and bum, all of whom had decent thread presence and posted within a couple hours of mocstas confession. Bum I especially consider townie because of how seemingly sincere hes been in his attempts to push discussion, case in point this post glows green to my eyes.

"It seems like you have a stronger read on Vivax then you do QuantomPope. Can you respond to what he has said. I would appreciate if you two(three?) would hash out what you think of each other. I'm in the same boat with your scum list, but because you don't go into much detail, I can't benefit from what you think!"

An attempt at getting a contribution out of a player whose likely to be lynched comes off as a weird scum play, unless that scum player is totally confident that the townie will provide misinformation. Something I dont think a scum bum would count on.

Vivax also posted within range of the confession, but even disregarding that I honestly cant believe Mocsta would quit like this if he had Vivax on his team. Same reasoning applies to rob.

Which leaves a pool of six within which lies the last two scum.

1:Shiapi: Has done extremely little for town, that much hasnt changed, Round hasnt really said much on him all game long, usually deflecting questions or arguments against him onto someone else, only once he became the clear lynch did Moc/rayn hop on the wagon faithfully. A shiapi scum partner would def fit the bad scum team narrative.

2:Mattchew: Posts a bunch of one liners, mostly comments on others reads, has a relative amount of heat on him, thread presence low to medium. I dont think hes scum with shiapi unless shiao called his mother a goat or something. Although that would explain Mocs exasperation with his team, meh.

3: Quantom Pope: Extremely low content, could definitely see Mocsta getting pissed about being with this guy.

4:Mordanis: His early posts look like they have some actual, albiet befuddled, thought to them but his targets are odd, and bieng reasonable more often than not does not translate to bieng townie. He goes after Rob and Vivax, two relatively green players at the time, strange choices even if you take into account the volatile nature of any games start. Another odd thing is Rounds hard defense of him.

"I think Mordanis has about the best posts in thread. Yes they are worded a bit awkwardly and idk what that means. He can answer for himself about that. The "brb gonna go write a wall of text case against everyone" is an obvious joke and everyone should be able to realise it.."

at the time Mordanis had done a decent amount of contribution, but it's odd just how far Round sticks his neck out for him, going so far as to call his posts the best thread... Not even sure if Rayn's the kinda player to do that if they were buddies. Could just as well be post flip posturing on a possible lynch target, a motive backed up by Rayns willingness to change his stance on Mord as scum got more desperate for a lynch. Definitely a frustrating scum partner to have, so Mord does fit the terrible scum team theory.

5: Sidesprang: Not much of a contributor, but reads townie to me . Him asking for my replacement seems like a pretty unscummy thing to do, scum would want my slot to stay inactive as long as possible, yet here he is pretty much begging for a real contributor. Also his asking for a townie certificate... Considering the dark green and bloody history of Coag's accursed emblem, seems pretty brazen. Oh and his first vote, although a light hearted one, was on Mocsta... yeah maybe hes scum? Extremely reckless if thats the case, doesn't ultimately read red to me.

6: Jar Jar: least scummy of the bunch, has his own thoughts, pushes his own reads, generally helps town, I can elaborate if anyone likes but if you read through his filter you can see that although sherlock he aint, hes certainly doing more for town than anyone else on this list,(admittedly not saying much.)

Thats all for now, if anyone has any questions, I'll answer them tomorrow, it's been a long day, gl and good night town.

Oh and regardless of all this, no reason to not vote round. Hurray for free lynch!

Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 14:00 GMT
#925
Plus there is so much reasoning WHY scum mocsta would do that. This reasoning comes naturally to town but not to scum, so I think it's really hard for scum to replicate that.
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 14:03 GMT
#926
KUSH'S 100% INFALLIBLE PoE

1) ShiaoPi (filter)
3) JarJarDrinks (filter)
9) QuantumPope (filter)
10) Mattchew (filter)
12) sidesprang (filter)
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 14:06 GMT
#928
On February 16 2014 23:05 JarJarDrinks wrote:
He hasn't really given an opinion on anyone this game.

False.
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 15:02 GMT
#938
lol mocsta im so much better at reading you than you are at reading me
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 15:04 GMT
#940
On February 17 2014 00:03 roundabound wrote:
wait, did we really have 5 votes on us? rofl

~rayn


mocsta did some retarded fake claim while you were gone :\
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 15:09 GMT
#944
On February 17 2014 00:04 roundabound wrote:
kush, why do you think gumshoe's post is townie or not?
Do you know how he plays, you've been in game with him at least a couple of times lately.

~rayn


I already answered this.

Disclaimer: I have no idea how this guy plays! Maybe I have been in games with him but
1 he is quite forgettable
2 i have terrible memory
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 15:17 GMT
#945
On February 16 2014 17:20 gumshoe wrote:
Haro! So I've pretty much blitzed through the thread, but obviously the most recent event eclipses everything that came before it so I've reconfigured most of my reads in light of it. The only reason I can see Moc quitting like he has is if he feels like his scum team has completely failed him, which he straight up acknowledges in the case of Rayn. Gives me the sense that most of his scum team are incompetent and already under pressure. I also dont think hed reveal like this if there were one or two members of his team on at his time of confession, which would be a bit of a dick move, this tentatively clears Grack( who I had pinged as null) thrawn(his posting aggravates me a smidge just like in the last serius game we played, so probs town) and bum, all of whom had decent thread presence and posted within a couple hours of mocstas confession. Bum I especially consider townie because of how seemingly sincere hes been in his attempts to push discussion, case in point this post glows green to my eyes.


It's like he was so convinced that mocsta was telling the truth about being scum. I don't think scum would automatically jump to that conclusion and provide reasoning why scum mocsta would claim scum.
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 16 2014 15:30 GMT
#948
On February 16 2014 11:17 bumatlarge wrote:
Even trolling procures content sometimes... like some as in not much.


funny that he got so pissed at mocsta after he says this.
Kush and Vivax
VIVAX420
Profile Joined April 2013
556 Posts
February 17 2014 00:45 GMT
#991
Can you please take a look at the difference in play between this game and this one
(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436388&user=sidesprang&view=all).

I think the difference is as clear as day, in that game his content, insight and opinion is more prevalent for the average post. In this game, he posts jokey stuff, keeps his posting to a minimum and doesn't go out to calling people scum, or pushing targets.

Still would like the opinion of other folks.

~V
Kush and Vivax
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