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On January 25 2014 03:37 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 03:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 25 2014 03:34 kushm4sta wrote:
OK biased or not (lol), your case is still shitty on him for contradicting himself.
that is not a good case.
Also i coudl argue a lot of those contradictions are actually not contradictions and you just misunderstood what jlaw was trying to say. that's what I meant by biased. It's not shitty, he's scum because he's been chasing scum objectives; distancing himself from balla whilst not actually trying to convince people to lynch him, then as soon as it happens tries to claim towncred for it. The contradictions just seal the deal on an already obvious scum. do you see how you coudl be seen as doing the same exact thing, minus the trying to claim towncred for it part. (that is the most superficial part btw so scum isn't even likely to do that)
How have I been trying to distance myself from Balla? I hadn't interacted with him barely at all. I had only skimmed his filter by the time he was up for lynch. Have you read the game?
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On January 25 2014 03:39 kushm4sta wrote:
everyone was switching from town(me) to balla(scum) and you were like wtf guyz why...
and before you said balla/kush look scummy.
Your view of the game just makes no sense. The scum you are suggesting do not work as partners. You are scum and i twill fill my heart with joy to see you flip red.
I have said beforehand that I think you look scummy as shit. This is an opinion I've been returning to despite the thing Rayn quoted. From the skimming over Balla's filter I found him moderately suspicious, but my strongest read was still on you.
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On January 25 2014 03:40 bumatlarge wrote:
I don't see myself lynching any of Jlaw, Kush or thrawn. You'd have to have really solid evidence to cancel out their play on the day 1 lynch.
What I really want to hear is Artanis talk about his read on suki.
I don't think she's scum. The way she openly was depressed about not having reads after a scum got lynched is something I'm fairly certain no scum would ever dare burn their fingers on. Especially with how the newbie game went for her I find it hard to see her as scum.
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On January 25 2014 03:42 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 07:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm okay with a Balla lynch too, but still prefer a Kush lynch. Just scrolled through his filter and he hasn't done anything. I remember him doing great in his latest newbie game and he hasn't really done anything here. Inactivity can have multiple reasons though. I much prefer Kush because he's actually been here a lot and still has a shit filter. this is scum
Quoting it 5 times isn't going to convince anyone dear. I had a strong read on you and a weaker read on Balla because I hadn't actually read through it properly. It was 5 minutes before the deadline.
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Kush if you thought it was so scummy why did you never push me? Why are you coming back to it only now?
And yes you usually have a shit filter but even then you usually have some form of contribution to add. You don't this game.
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On January 25 2014 03:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
yeah i dont think artanis is even talking about this game anymore
I don't think you're reading this game if you think that.
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On January 25 2014 03:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
you're saying kush isn't doing anything? is this what you're saying?
Yes, he hasn't done anything up until I antagonized him too much and now he's trying to get me lynched because he's mad at me.
On January 25 2014 03:54 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 03:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Kush if you thought it was so scummy why did you never push me? Why are you coming back to it only now?
And yes you usually have a shit filter but even then you usually have some form of contribution to add. You don't this game. um artanis i hate to break this to you bro, but im confirmed town due to some dumb shit i did in the first 5 minutes of the game. So you are barking up the wrong tree here.
I thought so too but you've been very busy this game to prove that wrong and I'm far from certain on that read now.
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On January 25 2014 03:57 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 03:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I thought so too but you've been very busy this game to prove that wrong and I'm far from certain on that read now. if you thought so, why did you lynch me over balla?
Because I didn't realize it until Rayn brought it up.
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On January 25 2014 03:58 kushm4sta wrote:
rayn brought it up before everyone moved onto balla right?
Pretty sure he didn't or he didn't push it until after the lynch. I'll have to go back.
On January 25 2014 03:59 thrawn2112 wrote:
so i'm guessing neither of you are town reading VE? is this right?
I still have a weak town read on VE from the way he approached Bum.
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On January 22 2014 07:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 07:38 kushm4sta wrote:
I thought omg rayn is claiming named vt like i am so are you claiming named VT? or what the fuck are you saying?
This is all Rayn said about it before the lynch. He didn't bring his conclusion on it out until after the lynch.
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On January 25 2014 04:03 kushm4sta wrote:
@artanis, rayn brought up my vt claim, and that is precisely what caused everyone to switch to balla.
He never explicitly said that that's why he wanted to switch. He wanted to switch because he felt better about Balla. It didn't become clear to me how strongly this implicated you were town until he put it down in a sequence. I'm fairly sure most people switched over because they felt Balla was a better lynch, not because they thought that meant you were likely to be town.
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Thrawn can you tell me why you find VE scummy?
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On January 25 2014 04:53 bumatlarge wrote:I feel really strongly that JLaw being a mislynch today would lose a lot of traction for town has right now. + Show Spoiler +On January 25 2014 03:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:1. Interaction with Balla seems fake.He pressures Balla a bit, then when Balla answers him he doesn't do anything with it, just continues to call him scum. He knows the alignment of Balla already so he doesn't actually care about the answers. He just wants interaction for distancing. 2. His read on Kush makes no sense.Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 02:02 JonnyLaw wrote:
rayn this is exactly how kush plays though.
What's telling you he's scum? He says this is exactly how Kush plays. So clearly he knows a lot about Kush's meta. Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 03:29 JonnyLaw wrote:
Also, I think balla's scum and I don't know how to read kush at all. Maybe scum too.
Welp, that's weird. He suddenly forgot 90 minutes later. 3. Voting pattern compared to readsVE already brought this up. Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 02:30 VisceraEyes wrote:Jonny might very well be scum. When I initially noticed Balla and voted for him Jonny had just unvoted and voted for Kush, citing "we can't get Jonny lynched anyway, so lynch Kush I think they both scum" On January 21 2014 07:52 JonnyLaw wrote:
##unvote
##vote kushmasta
I think kush is scum. I think balla is scum. I think kush put a bus vote on balla and got an easy out when I said something. No one else will vote balla. Lynch kush. So why is it that once people start LOOKING AT balla, suddenly Jonny is more interested in lynching Kush? On January 22 2014 03:01 JonnyLaw wrote:
Balla I still think you're scum.
You post essentially nothing this game. Then you pop back into the thread and pick a convenient lurker to lynch. You're not making an effort to solve this game.
How is sheeping rayn by saying he's here to move the game forward any type of acceptable play? In the last game you kept commenting oh how you play too nicely and trying to FIND SCUM while I randomly harassed people into talking.
you ask questions, but pose them doubtfully like you're not sure and don't care if they're answered. Your play this game is completely scummy. in 40 hours all you've managed to conclude is that rayn (nine pages of filter) is town and you can sheep him safely while crossfire (one page of filter) looks bad so you can post something without fear of him coming back at you with a defense.
It certainly seems like he still "thinks Balla is scum", so why not vote? Maybe his next vote will be on Balla.... On January 22 2014 03:56 JonnyLaw wrote:##unvote##vote zarepath
Yeah, your last post sealed it for me. Your explanation for bum being scummy is that he took his vote off VE when no one would follow his lead. You took your vote off VE when you thought it was an easy thing to do. They're not obviously different at all.
On January 22 2014 01:22 zarepath wrote:I could join a bum scum wagon for his rationale of ending his VE assault, notably because of this: Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 11:46 bumatlarge wrote:
VisceraEyes. Read below. If you do not answer sufficiently, I cannot, as a town-aligned player, ever take my vote off you.
Followed by this: Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 14:18 bumatlarge wrote:
##unvote
You win. I'm not going to pursue this charade if no one else finds it worth while. If he did not ACTUALLY think he would never take his vote off without VE satisfactorily answering his questions (which is the case, as evidenced by him taking his vote off of him), what was the purpose of stating it in such a dramatic way? I'm thinking for appearance, which is actually backed up by the second quote, where he shares his rationale for dropping the vote, which is purely because of what everyone else thinks. The ideal townie would pursue his read no matter what, but a non-ideal townie isn't necessarily scum. What shouts scummy to me is the transparent motivation of focusing on how everyone else perceives his arguments, and not on his arguments themselves.
He tried to back up his case for two days and it gained no traction. You abandoned yours after two fucking minutes when VE said lynch me if I'm scum. You literally have one post saying I made a case and that's it. After that it's like total 180 and you jump on the same person VE has his vote on.
Nope...it's on Zarepath. So him saying he's thought Balla was scum like all D1 is pretty meaningless, because when Balla was being discussed, there was never any "Hey yeah! I like that guy for scum too!" or a vote or anything. In fact, when the votes started dropping, Jonny was on the other guy. He's thought Balla was scum all game long, but doesn't really interact with him much, nor does he vote for him until he's already dead and buried. [b]4. Accuses people without purpose. Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 04:41 JonnyLaw wrote:
Crossfire has 3 posts of substance.
One is policy talk. Easy scum starter.
One he dives kush which does nothing. Kush plays however the fuck he wants and he comes back with a null read. That's odd in itself after all the work he claims to have done.
His third is a case on rayn which isnt even much of a case in my opinion.
He's not helping the town at all and not really playing the game. Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 05:15 JonnyLaw wrote:
On January 22 2014 04:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 04:41 JonnyLaw wrote:
Crossfire has 3 posts of substance.
One is policy talk. Easy scum starter.
One he dives kush which does nothing. Kush plays however the fuck he wants and he comes back with a null read. That's odd in itself after all the work he claims to have done.
His third is a case on rayn which isnt even much of a case in my opinion.
He's not helping the town at all and not really playing the game. Is there anything you find scummy about Crossfire that you find difficult to imagine from a town point of view?
No, I can imagine them. He's just lurking though so it's hard to say. So there's this thing he found interesting except he could see it done as both alignments. Okay. [b]5. Keeps trying to get cred for the Balla lynch After the lynch, Jonny seems more interested in getting credit for the lynch despite not having voted for him until the last moment than anything else. 6. Can't keep his own story straightRayn already said it. Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 23:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 22 2014 06:43 JonnyLaw wrote:
Yeah, fine who do you want to lynch then? I'm taking a short break to reevaluate and gather my thoughts. On January 22 2014 06:47 JonnyLaw wrote:On January 22 2014 06:45 suki wrote:
I think Balla's play fits my view of him as town so far. Aside from the activity level I'd agree. This is really bad. Really bad. He's had one clear scumread all the game. When something unexpected happens he has no idea what to do and then calls Balla's posting town?!?! But it was scummy before? And after. lol. Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 00:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:On January 22 2014 03:59 JonnyLaw wrote:
I dunno maybe he's frustrated he got no support after putting a lot of effort into a case. Something you did not do.
Hell if it were up to me I'd lynch balla today but that doesn't seem likely. I've played 3 games with him in the last 2-3 months and this is not how town balla should be playing. So, when something's not working find another scummer to lynch. And I think Rayn did exactly that when he found Zarepath. On January 22 2014 06:47 JonnyLaw wrote:On January 22 2014 06:45 suki wrote:
I think Balla's play fits my view of him as town so far. Aside from the activity level I'd agree. no no no. This does not make any sense. That should be pretty much slam dunk already. Now for the recent posts which seem to have given people a townread on him somehow. 7. Case on SukiCases can be bad and that doesn't make the person that makes them scummy. However, the choice of target on its own doesn't make sense. When you're a townie and you feel down and out and there's one person trying to motivate you to try again, who do you filter first to try and find scum? Generally it isn't the person trying to motivate you. So why would a scum JL do it? Because she was the best target that no one had really made a case on yet. Making a case on Bum wouldn't get you any credit because VE's already done it. Suki was the one with the filter easiest to portrait as scum that no one did yet. A perfect target for a scum case. The effort involved wasn't too much either, simply quoting posts and adding a line here and there and suddenly towncred galore. 8. Instant flip with town consensusOkay, now that the town cred has been accrued, let's see who we can actually lynch. Artanis is getting a lot of votes, let's plop my vote down there. What's strange is that the thing that's showing I'm town the most, the effort I put into getting my target lynched, is somehow scummy to him. From all the things in my filter that's what he points out. It shows a lack of a town mindset. Lynch JonnyLaw. He's scum. Lynch me if I'm wrong. 1) While you bring up a lot of neat points, artanis, none of it is really damning. JL talking about balla and not voting him until the end is curious, but eventually he does when it matters, I don't think he is trying to gain anything by it. It looks more like a town thought process.
I disagree strongly. This is exactly the kind of thing you want to do as scum; accuse your buddies without getting votes on him.
[2) His vote on kush is bad, but again that looks like faulty town play. He never apears to call kush town, just saying "that's how he plays", as either alignment. He is interested in how rayn came to his conclusion. He does think it over before he votes him, the distance between those posts you gave about kush are hours away from each and alot happens in between then.
It doesn't look like faulty town play, it looks like a scum who can't keep his story together. Yes, it's hours away but he said he knew exactly how to read Kush, then proceeds to say he doesn't.
3) His vote on zarepath isn't awful either. EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM. I would have rather lynched VE, and I ate flak for taking my vote off him, and you had a town read on me at the time. His reasons are on par with someone trying to scumhunt. You would have to reach a good amount to turn that into scum that is slightly bussing.
It's not about whether he thought Zarepath was scum or not, it's about how easily he stepped off the person he thought was scummiest, then proceeded to have no problems with voting for the scumspect of his scumspect.
4) Rayn accuses people without purpose to generate reads. I think JLaw's attacks have a similar goal; to draw out content from certain players. Crossfire had barely any content. He was attempting to bring attention to it an wasn't pushing CF as anything. All of this just indicates that JLaw is reading the thread and trying to come up with reads.
I agree that this can be interpreted as both alignments. However, I feel the scummy one is more likely given the rest of the case; JL finds a place to throw poop at and proceeds to do so.
5/6) I think he deserves some... His post with suki about balla "playing his town game" is out of place, though.
Not really. He wasn't the one that made it happen, Rayn was. All he did was accuse but convince no one.
7) I find this very silly. He is developing reads, and going into territory no one has gone before is town, not mafia. Your reasons why this is scummy are completely far-fetched.
I'm not saying they're scummy per say, but people had scumreads on JL until these posts after which he suddenly became town to them. I'm saying that JL's posts even after D2 where he improved can easily be explained from a scum perspective.
8) This is alignment-read bias. If you are really convinced someone is scum, everything they do is going to have a mafia reason.
And it makes perfect sense when you look at him from a mafia perspective, too. Especially with the early stuff it's damning.
Anyway, it doesn't matter since I'm getting lynched first. Just lynch JL after I flip green, then treat Kush/Thrawn with extreme scrutiny. I'm out. There's only so much arguing with Kush one can have on one day. GL Town!
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Town was always going to win this after 2 scum lynches. Town victory is the logical result.
Wasn't really motivated very much after Balla got lynched but I wanted to at least make you guys sweat for it 
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On January 25 2014 08:17 JonnyLaw wrote:
Artanis your song was epic by the way.
Everyone should listen to Wardruna. They are awesome.
On January 25 2014 08:18 BarristanTheBold wrote:
That was a ballsy fake-claim. I think he could have ridden it out until MYLO/LYLO, but it would have been tough to win IMO.
He didn't have much choice to be honest. If he hadn't done anything he would've gotten lynched. It wasn't really a plan, more a desperation move.
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On January 25 2014 08:32 suki wrote:
Hey Artanis, in the scum QT you said this:
Rule #1 of Mafia: Never shoot Kush.
Rule #2 of Mafia: NEVER SHOOT KUSH.
I lol'd :D What's the story behind this?
Even when Kush is right, he rarely gains traction in the town. As scum you want to shoot the people leading the lynches so you can be the one that leads town. Kush isn't a town leader.
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On January 25 2014 08:48 bumatlarge wrote:
I think as Zarepath I would have claimed doctor. You guys needed to flush out the possibility, and it was either get a CC or the lynch would be switched. A fakeclaimed doctor wouldn't be too bad if you just planned the kills and fake protections accordingly. I think his claim did really well for him in the end with people bringing up the rules. Odd that they are still stated that way. That wasn't DP's fault.
This would've been bad though because a doc still being alive after one night will never be believed. You could instantly claim PC afterwards and Zare would be confirmed scum the moment you died.
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EPT
