I'm also annoyed that the only other person who even considering Jonny is Obzy though (even after I've brought up a case on him twice and had a huge argument with him)... seriously, we need to consolidate more. We're all over the place as a town, this is terrible. Focus on one or two targets, form your opinions, post them, then move on. We NEED focus. Majority lynch is WAY harder then plurality lynch in that sense.

From now on I will be considering people who bring up irrelevant targets when there is still heavy discussion on another target scummy. Not sure how I determine this but we'll see. For example, I would consider Odin's entry into the thread VERY scummy because of how irrelevant his reads were at that point in time.

This means if you don't think someone is a good lynch target, DEFEND them and then bring up a counter-target.

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 04:59 GMT

#695

Holy shit yes Storr.

Unfortunately, I couldn't see anything else that Jonny could possibly have picked on though, so even though he might have been a good lynch, him being away through his entire accusation certainly makes it hard to gain anything new.

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 05:09 GMT

#697

The problem with this kind of discussion is that for these forum mafia games people aren't all active at the same time so we can't get everyone's opinions.. To solve this, we need to target currently active players at all times so that they can defend themselves and we can actually move forward on a case with them.

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 05:11 GMT

#698

By doing that, we can, towards the end of the day discuss reasonable lynch options, and we will have already had their defenses.

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 05:26 GMT

#702

Enough meta discussion: here is my case (rehashed and with a few new topics) on JonnyLaw -

- Weak/forced cases on Vanesco/Poofter/Odin... doesn't try to come up with new arguments for the case but continues to push old, possibly debunked theories (odin not reading the thread comes to mind, I came up with a good counter-argument to that and he ignored it). Some people might say he is not scummy for actually pushing people, but I feel like the manner he pushes for people is not strong as town.

- Asks for everybodies top scum reads during night1: i've already expressed my concern with this... I still don't really see what use it is to know everybodies scum reads. But I could see this as just being over-eager.

- Obzy posted a solid analysis of this post (link) earlier:

On November 01 2013 07:00 JonnyLaw wrote:
No, if E00e flips town I feel okay dropping odin as a read.

He hasn't posted his reasoning for this even after being asked for it. I really don't understand this.

- (sorry if ppl dont like this point it but I hated hated hated this):

On November 01 2013 09:05 JonnyLaw wrote:
Yo...like I said.

Fuuuuuuuuuck this. He acts as if he KNEW 100% july was going to flip town yet his defenses of him were soooo freaking weak. Even I defended him better than that and I ended up lynching him anyways.

- He held back on switching his vote to July, and only switched it after being asked AND near the time I was considering swapping to Odin, as if he didn't want the Odin flip to happen anymore.

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 05:27 GMT

#703

On November 01 2013 14:16 StorrZerg wrote:

Show nested quote +

ill be honest, i think jonny had enough to convince me to go to odin, hell imo he had better reasons than myself going on july.

Like what? I don't agree with this at all.. please elaborate.

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 06:22 GMT

#709

Have to go to sleep now... sad that Jonny dissapeared, but maybe he's working on something ^_^. Odin, you were supposed to post something concise and you haven't posted at all

I'll be back in 8hrs..

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 06:35 GMT

#714

I didn't have anything for you, otherwise I would have. I got as much as I could from you the night before.. and after that nothing new came up since you weren't around.. I'll probably have stuff when you post your analyses..

also, I thought you were a good lynvh in regards to what information we could gain from it.. I.E: Johnny being scummy. Remember; I thought either you or Johnny was scum. I'm not so sure on that now, you may very well both be town.

anyways sleep time, was posting from my tablet so sry for any autocorrects... night

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 07:00 GMT

#719

Like I said.. I prodded you as much as I could and got everything cleared up that I needed the night before. if you remember...

I'm not denying that I thought you were the better lynch... but again, that's because it would have given us wayyyyy more information then what we ended up with, particularly about my scumread Johnny.... not because I thought you were more suspicious than July. So why would I have questions for you, when you haven really brought anything else to the table and i was already clear on everything previous to that.

I'm ACTUALLY powering down now. See you tomorrow.

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 15:58 GMT

#733

I'm back, who's around? Vonthin/E00/nyx, you guys around? I'm reading about you guys now... thoughts on what happened in the beginning of the night?

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 16:10 GMT

#735

I don't like Vonthin's filter the most out of the three. I'm just posting it as it comes to mind, but i'm going to compare to last game's filter and decide if he's playing differently.

Particularly this post:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=433102&currentpage=25#492

There's no reasoning here when there really should be. Why? Check out the surrounding posts:

1. Reads on everyone. I called him out to give his top 2 reads in detail, in this post he said E00 wasn't giving enough to get a read.
2. In "top 2 reads" post I asked for, he flip flops on E00 and calls him scum and eventually votes for him.
3. He unvotes E00 with no reasoning (the post i linked)
4. He says E00 is still one of his top scum reads, votes on July, and calls Odin scummy.

He's leaving a LOT of options on the table.

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 16:11 GMT

#736

On November 02 2013 01:04 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
i'm around right now. could you quote or be more specific?

no, do the work yourself. i don't even care that much on your thoughts anymore actually since i've switched topics lol.. please be more pro-active though

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 16:21 GMT

#737

Just a clarification, nyx: I want you to post your thoughts when they come to you, try to move town in a good direction. Every time you're around you just wait for someone else to do the work for you then make an opinion. I know you're not comfortable making reads and analysis but you need to try or you will never get it.

When you're around, try to be active, if thread is dead, post SOMETHING. It's hard enough for you to have conversations with people because you're on the other side of the world, but how can you expect to help town if you don't do anything during the times where nobody else is here.

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 16:28 GMT

#738

Sorry nyx, i'm moody this morning lol:

I do want your thoughts on the events of post-vote:

- My case on Jonny
- Jonny's case of me
- Odin?

I'm just mad the thread is dead while i'm asleep but only half the thread is here for vote deadline :/

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 16:52 GMT

#740

Good, that was the feeling I was getting too, glad someone else came to that conclusion. Do you agree with the reasoning he had for july not being scum?

Now, i'd like some thoughts on Vonthin/E00, who hopefully will show up soon.

I forgot to mention, which was one of my main points on Vonthin: He effectively dissapears for the actual vote, asking about someone's reads who may or may not be there, but that's it. As if he was just waiting for it to go through, feels scummy, it's something I did in my 2 games as scum occasionally.

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 17:16 GMT

#742

i'm not blaming him for the july vote, that was an obvious vote for both town and scum

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 17:17 GMT

#743

Do you not find how he flip-flopped on E00 weird? If so, why not?

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 17:34 GMT

#745

On November 02 2013 02:26 E00e wrote:
I dont think Jonny is mafia. He makes some bad arguments and takes part in pointless discussions but his anger seems genuine and he puts out information.
I feel like Mafia would have pushed for me and July. One of the people who did that is Vonthin. I still dont like their accusation one me and it looks like they tested out who could be lynched the most easily out of July,Odin,e00E.

Thoughts on Odin? You had a mafia read yesterday. Did everything he do tonight fit with that?

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 17:41 GMT

#747

Hmm, i've been thinking of connections like that as well... but as far as Vonthin, I feel like not many people have mentioned him and he's slid under the radar. I'll have to confirm that and think about that around Vonthin, since i've been tunnel visioning myself..

Balla24

2322 Posts

November 01 2013 18:14 GMT

#751

Alright, let's talk about Poofter for a minute here:

He constantly reminds us that "we need to catch some scum!!" etc, no duh... seems odd and is kind of annoying, but it does fit with his pre-game persona.

This post:

On November 01 2013 08:22 Tehpoofter wrote:

Show nested quote +

I really wish you would give us something. :/

Is totally something mafia me/one of my teammates (can't remember which) did... It's pro town in the sense that you're showing your disappointment in a townie giving up, but not pro-town enough that you're defending him. An easy post for scum, not very useful post as town.

He has a similar voting pattern to Vonthin... also something i noticed was he called Vonthin out to post something when Vonthin was literally completely under the radar and nobody was thinking about him at all and Vonthin posts something 2hrs later (which fits a town profile of Vonthin, since he did the same thing when I called him out, but he was clearly there). Might be scum trying to get his mate to be more pro-town.