EPT"##" Mafia - Page 242
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
I thought it was one of the worst kept secrets imaginable, but apparently it did the trick | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On November 10 2013 12:14 Crossfire99 wrote: He did, but I only confirmed it from him like a few minutes before the deadline and I was kinda already writing the lynch post and wanted to trick people into thinking s&b was the last scum for suspense and whatnot, so that's why I did that. If s&b wants me to, I can undo that and make it so that VA concedes before the lynch. Eh, if I ever decide to care about my getting-lynched stats I'll just change it in the db. I think I've gotten mislynched twice already in the last three years, once over claims and once for not giving a shit. So do w/e | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
I refused to believe that someone could get a protection for 4 updates because that's ridiculously low. Also how the roleblocks were resolved was prettyy lol. We were originally roleblocking Koshi which would have been better but i didn't think the setup would be so stacked against us.. :/ I even said it in scumchat: " i actually think we should rb prome. there is no way Koshi got doc from 4 updates. That's seriously OP if that's true. " | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=432504¤tpage=241#4813 I want to hear your opinion. If you don't give me constructive criticism, I don't know how to improve my setups. P.S. It IS dumb to update anyone who asks. Ask s&b about WLIIA mafia. I basically gave him all my points just because he asked, allowing him to do a bunch of stuff when he was mafia. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
didn't really have any issues with the setup, but it seems it was assumed that we would know that there would be so many town roles when I had no idea. When I read my role it seemed impossible to use and then as the game developed I realized that half the game had these roles and I would blend right in. That was definitely not clear imo. So I guess my only constructive criticism would be just because you are the host and know everything don't assume that the players will too, because we don't have all the info =) also a minor point would be that I would game the setup as town as well, and it was far too easy to realize once the roles were out that 1 mafia was in each group of "powers" my saving grace there was that I did not claim | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:30 Crossfire99 wrote: I sorta understand where you are coming from, but like I said earlier I didn't want scum to only have out of thread powers and be able to game the setup so *obviously* like that. I figured that having a silent roleblocker, godfather, and vote modifier wasn't too shabby. Additionally, whatever VA decided to use if he got charged up was silent and no one knew what it was. The only truly non-silent ability was yours and I went back and forth on it. Originally it was silent, and Seuss/Onegu's was in thread (except for the rb), but I wasn't sure about that and switched it. I figured it would be easier for your ability to be used less *obviously* scummy than Seuss's. One of the things I intended for you to be able to do was to increase the vote power of Weiner and decrease the cost of Bieber's abilities. You could play this off many ways, plus no one knew what cloister did. I figured this was easier to do than the voting stuff. Also night 1 you could have easily determined that Koshi had a jail. Seuss actually went through and tried to figure it out but missed jail costing 4. + Show Spoiler + If we work under the assumption that Koshi, marv, and Prom are essentially identical to VA, the most any of them can do is track/ninja. Rayn's power increases marv's costs so he can't medic himself. Whatever Koshi was planning to do he's been put off it. The concerning one here is actually Oats. He got 7 Refudiates. However, his power is apparently permanent, so it's reasonable to assume it's not like the others. Thanks for your thoughts, though! Just a general question for you. Can scum ever have non-silent abilities to use? Or is the fact that they're scum mean that almost all of their abilities must be silent? Basically the problem was this: - Town massclaims at the start of the game (just because the update powers must claim either way). - Everyone who is town and has an update power obviously claim that instantly and also claims how the power works (but not what the abilities are - and never claims who they are going to use the powers on before resolution period - but like marv did; "don't twerk me yet, people who i want to twerk me do that at the time i tell you to"). There is no reason to not update all those guys and everyone should do what is asked (it does not matter if the people with the powers are scum or town, i'll come to that later). - Everyone who is town and has an in-thread ability claims (in this setup the roles were vote-altering powers) and they prove their powers (WoS +1's someone, Pandain -1's someone). - kushmasta claims his power truthfully and promises never to use it. - vanillas claim. What does the scumteam do? - Vayne did what he had to. If he had claimed an update power he must HELP the town, or risk getting outed if he tries to screw with the town during night (f.ex. track somone and claim a wrong visit = you are dead, claim you jailed someone and got jailed by yourself = dead, etc etc.) . The best plan for him is to not do aything with his power ever and be a godfather. - I can't do anything with my powers before LYLO. I must help the town with the voting thing (buy town credit) or claim vanilla. I can't claim vanilla and risk a vig shot and/or a roleblock on me in the night before LYLO (when cloister is a good power - otherwise the power was pretty useless because it was in-thread, do something with it to screw with the town = get lynched pretty much, if not the following day, the day after that). - Seuss/Onegu claims or doesn't claim. It doesn't really matter. All he is is a roleblocker basically. So scum has basically a goon (before last night), a godfather, and a roleblocker vs 4 JOAT and useless powers + vanillas. If we try to frame someone during the night = maybe we could get someone lynched, but it will pretty much always at best result in 1-1 trade, or even worse. We can't basically do anything but to roleblock and hope me/Seuss don't get copped. When Sentinel gets outed (most likely to happen at some point) and claims like he did, town knows one of the vanillas is most likely lying. Then they can assume they are also a godfather. Best plan probably is to no-lynch every day until some of the roles fucks up somehow. Oats & Prome cop into the pool of unconfirmeds (non-JOATs) marv watches/jails (JOATs), Koshi jails (JOATs)/tracks(did he have a track? non-JOATs). Basically the best thing to do is to use abilities that confirm something (jail/watch/track/cop/doc) or busdrive JOATs with unconfirmed lesser roles/vanillas. Someone fucks up something or story doesn't fit = lynch Someone lies about their power = lynch Someone who is vanilla or kush does something = lynch Sentinel's nukes = everyone nukes one of the vanillas/kush N1 -> all on same person. Someone does something stupid outside what's supposed to be a good action = lynch There is a contradiction (like Seuss trying to frame someone with his silent power) = lynch (worst case scenario for town = 1-1 trade) If scum hit get's blocked there is gonna be confirmed people. Maybe someone is lying, maybe scum didn't hit anyone after all? Doesn't matter, laugh because you you got another night with more confirmed actions, no people dead. Analyze the situation (what could it mean) and no-lynch. If the same thing happens repeat. At some point you WILL find something because scum need to take risks to even kill people. Trust me, i have played so many BYORs i know in thread actions like that + resolution period where it's safe to claim action + really weak scum roles (+in thread actions in them) makes it basically impossible for scum to win even if there was nothing but talk about actions and no behavior analysis at all. In BYOR's (heavily roled games) scum have roles like "you can request whatever power you want from the GM's during the day to get it for the next night by doing XYZ" and STILL it's REALLY hard for mafia to win with basic town:mafia ratio.. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
T_T Happy I made the right choice by the end to just follow Marv's reads, even though I had different opinions. Weird decision to make but by end I'll guess I'll be able to identify mafia better instead of identifying who I think is suspicious Actually no if that's my resort then simply put I was completely wrong. oh well will improve | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On November 11 2013 10:06 Mocsta wrote: WOW.. I did not follow this game, but after reading gonzaw comment about marv filter... OMG.. 58 pages . I assume prob 54 are in-game. That has to be a record. They're all one-liners too. I wonder if Marv ever learns...<3 BTW I take all credit for the D1 post. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On November 11 2013 13:38 gonzaw wrote: Yeah, you are no champ unless you have a >50 page filter but full of only walls of text. Well it would be nice to have a decent ratio of in-depth posts instead of being spammy. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On November 11 2013 14:42 cDgCorazon wrote: Well it would be nice to have a decent ratio of in-depth posts instead of being spammy. ... Is there something I should know, here?? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 11 2013 14:42 cDgCorazon wrote: Well it would be nice to have a decent ratio of in-depth posts instead of being spammy. Apologies for being an instrumental part in town convincingly winning. I feel terrible. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
marv next time my turn! make sure you write me a letter in scum QT <3 | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
Only started thinking about the game at all when I started to think s&b would probably flip town after all, and that HCC was mafia after all (sparked by Koshi's "there has been no controversy around VA this game") I did enjoy your letter. Actually my biggest mistake regarding you was trying to get Koshi's validation for my read too much, should have given pushing you on Day 2 a go :p | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
I thought you thought i was scum later on because scumteam did not hit WoS and me calling you 3p was because of that (i thought you or Prome was SK). I thought you figured out i was scum for thinking you are 3p and i "know more than i should" and therefore you had to call me scum but not lynch me yet. ^^ We roleblocked Prome and he never brought that up (i don't know what messages parity cops get on N1 check). I thought he was hiding something when he also suddenly stopped posting. I just YOLO'ed on D3, i was supposed to write a big WIFOM post just before the phase end to make one of you/Prome look terribad (3p) but i fell asleep lol. Oh well, can't play perfectly all the time. :/ | ||
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