EPTgg Vayne and sorry for me fucking up :/
gj town although you got imba setup.
"##" Mafia - Page 24
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
gg Vayne and sorry for me fucking up :/ gj town although you got imba setup. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On November 10 2013 08:32 syllogism wrote: Too many powerful blues for such a small game, especially since the decent mafia powers relied on town cooperation. Mafia should have had a power that allows them to mess with the public ## mechanics. Also that ninja power probably should have been an unblockable shot. It does not even matter if the blues are powerful or not. As long as noone has a way to silently screw with the town nocando. I assumed on N1 "if Koshi has doc from 4 updates this game is lost, so ##yolo hit marv, only chance" | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On November 10 2013 08:44 strongandbig wrote: huh imagine if that nuke on VA had been real how baller would I have looked then THEBEST! and you got nuked for it... thrice. lol. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On November 10 2013 08:47 marvellosity wrote: rayn  <3 OKAY NOW FINALS! THEN TALK! ;D | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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I refused to believe that someone could get a protection for 4 updates because that's ridiculously low. Also how the roleblocks were resolved was prettyy lol. We were originally roleblocking Koshi which would have been better but i didn't think the setup would be so stacked against us.. :/ I even said it in scumchat: " i actually think we should rb prome. there is no way Koshi got doc from 4 updates. That's seriously OP if that's true. " | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On November 10 2013 11:30 Crossfire99 wrote: I sorta understand where you are coming from, but like I said earlier I didn't want scum to only have out of thread powers and be able to game the setup so *obviously* like that. I figured that having a silent roleblocker, godfather, and vote modifier wasn't too shabby. Additionally, whatever VA decided to use if he got charged up was silent and no one knew what it was. The only truly non-silent ability was yours and I went back and forth on it. Originally it was silent, and Seuss/Onegu's was in thread (except for the rb), but I wasn't sure about that and switched it. I figured it would be easier for your ability to be used less *obviously* scummy than Seuss's. One of the things I intended for you to be able to do was to increase the vote power of Weiner and decrease the cost of Bieber's abilities. You could play this off many ways, plus no one knew what cloister did. I figured this was easier to do than the voting stuff. Also night 1 you could have easily determined that Koshi had a jail. Seuss actually went through and tried to figure it out but missed jail costing 4. + Show Spoiler + If we work under the assumption that Koshi, marv, and Prom are essentially identical to VA, the most any of them can do is track/ninja. Rayn's power increases marv's costs so he can't medic himself. Whatever Koshi was planning to do he's been put off it. The concerning one here is actually Oats. He got 7 Refudiates. However, his power is apparently permanent, so it's reasonable to assume it's not like the others. Thanks for your thoughts, though! Just a general question for you. Can scum ever have non-silent abilities to use? Or is the fact that they're scum mean that almost all of their abilities must be silent? Basically the problem was this: - Town massclaims at the start of the game (just because the update powers must claim either way). - Everyone who is town and has an update power obviously claim that instantly and also claims how the power works (but not what the abilities are - and never claims who they are going to use the powers on before resolution period - but like marv did; "don't twerk me yet, people who i want to twerk me do that at the time i tell you to"). There is no reason to not update all those guys and everyone should do what is asked (it does not matter if the people with the powers are scum or town, i'll come to that later). - Everyone who is town and has an in-thread ability claims (in this setup the roles were vote-altering powers) and they prove their powers (WoS +1's someone, Pandain -1's someone). - kushmasta claims his power truthfully and promises never to use it. - vanillas claim. What does the scumteam do? - Vayne did what he had to. If he had claimed an update power he must HELP the town, or risk getting outed if he tries to screw with the town during night (f.ex. track somone and claim a wrong visit = you are dead, claim you jailed someone and got jailed by yourself = dead, etc etc.) . The best plan for him is to not do aything with his power ever and be a godfather. - I can't do anything with my powers before LYLO. I must help the town with the voting thing (buy town credit) or claim vanilla. I can't claim vanilla and risk a vig shot and/or a roleblock on me in the night before LYLO (when cloister is a good power - otherwise the power was pretty useless because it was in-thread, do something with it to screw with the town = get lynched pretty much, if not the following day, the day after that). - Seuss/Onegu claims or doesn't claim. It doesn't really matter. All he is is a roleblocker basically. So scum has basically a goon (before last night), a godfather, and a roleblocker vs 4 JOAT and useless powers + vanillas. If we try to frame someone during the night = maybe we could get someone lynched, but it will pretty much always at best result in 1-1 trade, or even worse. We can't basically do anything but to roleblock and hope me/Seuss don't get copped. When Sentinel gets outed (most likely to happen at some point) and claims like he did, town knows one of the vanillas is most likely lying. Then they can assume they are also a godfather. Best plan probably is to no-lynch every day until some of the roles fucks up somehow. Oats & Prome cop into the pool of unconfirmeds (non-JOATs) marv watches/jails (JOATs), Koshi jails (JOATs)/tracks(did he have a track? non-JOATs). Basically the best thing to do is to use abilities that confirm something (jail/watch/track/cop/doc) or busdrive JOATs with unconfirmed lesser roles/vanillas. Someone fucks up something or story doesn't fit = lynch Someone lies about their power = lynch Someone who is vanilla or kush does something = lynch Sentinel's nukes = everyone nukes one of the vanillas/kush N1 -> all on same person. Someone does something stupid outside what's supposed to be a good action = lynch There is a contradiction (like Seuss trying to frame someone with his silent power) = lynch (worst case scenario for town = 1-1 trade) If scum hit get's blocked there is gonna be confirmed people. Maybe someone is lying, maybe scum didn't hit anyone after all? Doesn't matter, laugh because you you got another night with more confirmed actions, no people dead. Analyze the situation (what could it mean) and no-lynch. If the same thing happens repeat. At some point you WILL find something because scum need to take risks to even kill people. Trust me, i have played so many BYORs i know in thread actions like that + resolution period where it's safe to claim action + really weak scum roles (+in thread actions in them) makes it basically impossible for scum to win even if there was nothing but talk about actions and no behavior analysis at all. In BYOR's (heavily roled games) scum have roles like "you can request whatever power you want from the GM's during the day to get it for the next night by doing XYZ" and STILL it's REALLY hard for mafia to win with basic town:mafia ratio.. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
marv next time my turn! make sure you write me a letter in scum QT <3 | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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I thought you thought i was scum later on because scumteam did not hit WoS and me calling you 3p was because of that (i thought you or Prome was SK). I thought you figured out i was scum for thinking you are 3p and i "know more than i should" and therefore you had to call me scum but not lynch me yet. ^^ We roleblocked Prome and he never brought that up (i don't know what messages parity cops get on N1 check). I thought he was hiding something when he also suddenly stopped posting. I just YOLO'ed on D3, i was supposed to write a big WIFOM post just before the phase end to make one of you/Prome look terribad (3p) but i fell asleep lol. Oh well, can't play perfectly all the time. :/ | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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EDIT: Also did you read why we hit Pandain? ^_^ "I think i can convince Koshi into not lynching me. I think (notice this is not-so-comfortable-think :p) i can convince marv into not lynching me. I think i have absolutely no way to convince Pandain into not lynching me, so yeah, Pandain might be a good kill." | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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Actually Koshi didn't want to lynch me but in the end sheeped you (or at least wasn't sure). You also told me i made you doubt yourself. So im not sure if i was wrong. Yes of course i did get lynched but not totally wrong. Pandain would have probably put "lynch rayn" glasses on and hammered the lynch like no tomorrow. :D | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On November 11 2013 19:58 marvellosity wrote: Not quite sure how you read Pandain as thinking like that, from his filter + postgame comment, looks like he was mostly following my read on you? shrug ^^ btw the reason HCC passed me by for so long is that i'm quite used to Vayne pushing his agenda as mafia, which he didn't seem to do here at all. He just let scum get lynched. it was weird. Because of what Pandain did in Golden Sun. He pushed kushmasta lynch through when everyone told him kush is town. :p Of course i could be wrong, and i probably am given what he said (apparently i missed it). I think Vayne kinda "stopped playing" when he accidently outed his smurf. Not sure but that's how i felt. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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... but then he decided to tunnel his third scumread marv and got lynched for it. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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And at least Crossfire found it enjoyable haha. I just typed and typed everything that came to my mind. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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I was also pretty happy you made me use Relegate because if you hadn't i would have effectively claimed scum on N2 because at that point i had misread Cloister as silent action. I also got to shout at you for a "reason". :p | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On November 11 2013 20:27 marvellosity wrote: yeah i thought Cloister was silent too until someone brought it up like days and days later. Didn't read closely enough. Maybe your PM was jinxed... it was impossible to read it correctly for anyone... haha I think Crossfire hacked my profile and changed my role PM three times. I call shenanigans! Game is invalid, mafia won! ggnore. ##hackedbycrossfire best power 2013. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On November 11 2013 20:34 marvellosity wrote: speaking of such things, i don't have that much to say about the balance, but I think Cloister being a silent action would probably have been a good idea. What with night action resolution period, it becomes very risky to use it (like you mention), so probably would have been better if you could use it without worrying. My plan was to use that as "doctor" and make the night kill happen one night after when we were close to LYLO. Obviously me misreading my role from the beginning fucked up my whole game plan.. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On November 11 2013 20:46 marvellosity wrote: Was kinda suspicious of the name tbh, when I looked it up didn't seem like it would simply be medic. I googled "Cloister english <-> finnish" (i had no idea what it means tbh) and it gave me synonyms "abbey, cloister, convent, monastery, To protect or isolate" so i just rolled with it. :p | ||
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