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Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:01 GMT
#507
On August 30 2013 05:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2013 05:55 Hapahauli wrote:
On August 30 2013 05:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I dunno Hapa, he has been ignoring the point all game long and it has been pointed out multiple times. Why would he do that as mafia? I mean ignore something that obvious a townie said?


Who are you talking about?

Hopeless.


Uh... then I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. If you're referring to him "ignoring" TK's defense, I think that's plenty scummy.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:03 GMT
#509
On August 30 2013 06:01 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2013 08:55 Hopeless1der wrote:
Tutan was attempting to justify a sheep onto an unknown policy and has since changed his mind...I'm glad I sheeped Oats.


You just stopped halfway through your thought process. Does not compute.


Do you think that "stopping halfway through one's thought process" is a 100% damning scum-tell?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:16 GMT
#522
As far as secondary reads go, I can't say I have any strong ones right now. I have a group of people I'm leaning town on, and a group of people I think are null/lynch-bait.

For example, Onegu and Syl are pretty lynch-baity types.
Onegu seems like he's trying to contribute, but for whatever reason it's coming across as awkward. He's definetely +1'ing a lot of posts, but I really don't think that's malicious. Gut-read town on him.
Sylencia I get some scum-vibes from. He's always pretty lurky, but I'm used to him being more forceful/articulate with his reads. So when I see something like this...
On August 29 2013 16:30 Sylencia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2013 16:21 sciberbia wrote:
Of course you can ask me who I think is mafia. I'm a little disappointed because there isn't much to go on yet, but my best guesses at mafia would be sn0_man, yourself, and yamato, in that order.

1) sn0_man for being in the thread for hours without doing anything relevant at all. And making some weird comment about being content with his vote on me, but then unvoting me for no reason.

2) Yourself for making some imo poor scumhunting attempts -- see above. Not sure how much of that is due to alchohol and how much due to your alignment though.

3) And yamato for being in the thread but avoiding engaging in discussion. Also I don't understand why marv is his strongest scumread for being useless when there is a whole handful of players who are as of yet equally useless.

I'd appreciate it if sylencia/tofu/yamato/anyone would chime in with agree/disagree on these three.


Sn0, not really - reading his second post makes it look like he skimmed the thread, unvoted and went off to sleep or something. If he was around for hours I would've expected more than 2 posts there.

debears - Agreed, mainly so far just due to the fact he's pushing on a lynch based on an exaggerated statement - at least I assume it was exaggerated. Given the rest of the post I'm quoting, maybe it's not but I saw it as being exaggerated.

yamato - He's not avoiding discussion (I think), I just think his read on marv is weak.


It sets off some alarm bells. None of these are really... reads. Maybe the debears one could be considered a read, but he even back-tracks on himself and discredits himself while making it.

Also, after seemingly defending Sn0 above, he turns around and comes back finding Sn0 suspicious for the same reasons that he disagreed with Scib on:

On August 29 2013 21:44 Sylencia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2013 21:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On August 29 2013 21:28 Sylencia wrote:
On August 29 2013 21:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
At this point i really don't see anyone being mafia other than FT, Sylencia and Tutankoopa.
Who's your top scumread(s) marv?


How do you end up having a scum read on me literally every game on D1?

Pretty much because if i am mafia you are pretty easy to attack, or if i am town you in my opinion comment on stuff i find irrelevant at that time.

This game basically PoE atm.


What's PoE, and what a brave self-incriminating sentence if you were scum. Too bad I don't see anything really different to your P4 play

That said, Sn0 is on the list for the same reason as FT. They both read, then both post crap a few hours later with the implication that they've read everything and then leave.

In Sn0's case he says he finds himself satisfied with his vote, meaning he found something scummy with scrib, but then unvotes saying it was utter bs and leaves
.


That's a really huge shift in tone from the previous posts. In his previous post, he passively and wishy-washily disagrees with Sciberia on his Sn0 read, then all of a sudden in this post, basically mimic's Scib's logic and seemingly finds Sn0 to be a strong scum-read.


On a seperate note, Yamato falls into this null category for me right now. His early-game posting gave me town-vibes initially (sarcastic, fearless - more of a meta-thing). However he's done very little this game other than a) antagonize marv and b) make this terrible post about myself/marv and only being concerned about our allignments.

Really he just hasn't done anything this game. I'm leaning scum, but we'll see what he comes up with when he gets back.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:25 GMT
#529
On August 30 2013 06:11 marvellosity wrote:
Hey all, weird shit going on. A few things before I forget

Hapa - what do you think of debears' comments on the 'scumcity' post from Onegu? Also (and genuine question I'd like answered) how are you feeling in general about this game so far?
...


I don't think that post by debears (on Onegu) says much. I do like the fact that he was willing to substantiate some other of his reads while stuck in a mad-tunnel on Sciberia, but I think the content could come from scum or town debears.

As far as his game goes, he seems aggressive right now, which is good. Looking back on his Sciberia tunnel, there seems to be a "madness" about it that I associate with a town mindset. He's constantly peppering scib with questions, and while he's stubborn as a mule about it, he's constantly trying to figure out scib's allignment and even gets pissed when scib ignores him.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:28 GMT
#532
On August 30 2013 06:24 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2013 06:16 marvellosity wrote:
On August 30 2013 06:13 Hopeless1der wrote:
On August 30 2013 06:11 marvellosity wrote:
Hey all, weird shit going on. A few things before I forget

Hapa - what do you think of debears' comments on the 'scumcity' post from Onegu? Also (and genuine question I'd like answered) how are you feeling in general about this game so far?

rayn, I said to remind me to comment on that post of yours after Tutan came back, so anyways. It was about him mentioning Oats at the start of the post and rescinding it at the end of the post. You seemed to be quite suspicious of that but to me it seems like a natural flow of consciousness. I don't see how that can be seen as anything worse than null, and is probably a towntell.

Hopeless, if you are indeed town then this tunnel is the worst thing in the history of the universe.

marv, you are the only one to come remotely close to commenting on my actual reasons for voting TK. Hapa has taken the same reason I call TK scum to call TK town. You essentially agree with Hapa. He is currently trying to round-about his way to explaining that to me, but i simply disagree with you two about the implications of changing your mind so suddenly.


Tell me what 'town' TK would/should have done? Or why what he didn't couldn't come from town? Or both indeed :p

Town anyone should have followed through with the questions to rayn instead of citing "this is stupid" and jumping ship with their vote in tow. If he'd have allowed for even one more post from rayn before unvoting I probably wouldnt be here, but I interpret his actions as being scared to have his vote parked, lest someone (me...) think he was serious about wanting to lynch rayn. That's a wholly scum motivated thought process based on thread context at the time of his unvote imo.


Thing is, I really don't understand how that's a scum-motivated thought process. Where is the scum-motivation in literally giving up a free tunnel? It's just as easy for scum to sit there and keep tunneling Rayn, but instead it seems like he realized a mistake and backed off.

Though you seem incessantly stubborn on this point, so I'm not sure how much you can be convinced off of it.

Do you have any scum-reads other than TK?
Why are you not asking TK any questions? Are you 100% certain he's scum? Because you're acting like it.


a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:32 GMT
#534
On August 30 2013 06:27 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2013 06:25 Hapahauli wrote:
On August 30 2013 06:11 marvellosity wrote:
Hey all, weird shit going on. A few things before I forget

Hapa - what do you think of debears' comments on the 'scumcity' post from Onegu? Also (and genuine question I'd like answered) how are you feeling in general about this game so far?
...


I don't think that post by debears (on Onegu) says much. I do like the fact that he was willing to substantiate some other of his reads while stuck in a mad-tunnel on Sciberia, but I think the content could come from scum or town debears.

As far as his game goes, he seems aggressive right now, which is good. Looking back on his Sciberia tunnel, there seems to be a "madness" about it that I associate with a town mindset. He's constantly peppering scib with questions, and while he's stubborn as a mule about it, he's constantly trying to figure out scib's allignment and even gets pissed when scib ignores him.


Not his game, this game, I was after your general feelings about how the game as a whole has gone so far.


Not the best town-atmosphere in the world, but it's OK for now. Atleast discussion is happening, even if there's more bickering than I'd like. It's within the realm of a normal early D1, and this game will be won or lost in the work done in the next 72-96 hours or so.

I will say that I am *very* worried about how this town can function with some of its vocal, calmer members get killed early on.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:33 GMT
#535
@ Marv

Can you comment on this Hopeless thing?

Also, comments on my Syl/Onegu/Yamato thoughts from above would be appreciated.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:40 GMT
#538
On August 30 2013 06:35 Hopeless1der wrote:
...
@Hapa
Rayn and Oats have already asked/brought up concerns I had, so I would have been parroting them if I asked more questions. I'm not 100% convinced, but he's my strongest read. I don't have legit scumreads formed on anyone else yet. Mostly lurkers bothering me and debears being silly. I figure I'm in a similar boat to your feelings on him. Maybe not so strong as you.


Well now's the time to ask him some questions since you and TK are both in the thread. Give the guy something specific to respond to, and we can go from there.

This lack of communication on both sides isn't helping anyone.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:52 GMT
#539
Hell can anyone comment on my Syl case above? I'm starting to agree with myself more and more :3
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:56 GMT
#541
On August 30 2013 06:54 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2013 06:52 Hapahauli wrote:
Hell can anyone comment on my Syl case above? I'm starting to agree with myself more and more :3


I'm stuck in his filter currently, I think I'm being dumb because I'm finding it tremendously difficult to work out how he's hopped around, even with his own explanations

I have written down that I think the post you quoted in your case looks worse as a standalone than in context - he was asked specifically to comment on those 3 players, and I can understand not being that decisive when talking about players you were asked to talk about


I can understand why the former post is wishy-washy. It's just the next post that's so strange to me - I can't understand how he gets from point a) to point b).

But yes, he seems very incoherent this game. And in the past, he's usually much more upfront about things (even if lurky)
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 21:57 GMT
#542
@ Hopeless + TK

Where'd you both run off to?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 22:20 GMT
#554
On August 30 2013 07:19 Tutankoopa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2013 07:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Tutankoopa wanna lynch Sylencia?


No. I already said earlier that his posts seem innocent enough.


What posts in particular seem "innocent?"

Also, what do you make of the contradiction I pointed out in his filter?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387&currentpage=27#522
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 22:23 GMT
#556
On August 30 2013 07:20 Tutankoopa wrote:
To clarify, I get the feeling that's he's doing this on his own and is therefore town. It's not the best explanation, but I'm not sure how else to express the "innocent" read.


Yeah I'm not sure what you mean by this. Scum can definetely "play on their own" and don't necessarily take orders from their scum-buddies.

Does that mean you feel he's not playing with extra information? Is there anything specific you can point to?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 22:25 GMT
#558
On August 30 2013 07:23 Tutankoopa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2013 07:20 Hapahauli wrote:
On August 30 2013 07:19 Tutankoopa wrote:
On August 30 2013 07:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Tutankoopa wanna lynch Sylencia?


No. I already said earlier that his posts seem innocent enough.


What posts in particular seem "innocent?"

Also, what do you make of the contradiction I pointed out in his filter?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387&currentpage=27#522


Are we attacking people for dropping contradictions? Yeah it's odd, but not much more than that. It's not even the most glaring of contradictions.


Contradictions aren't always scummy, but I think this one is. I really can't map out a town thought-process in what he did. It seems like he forgot he defended Sn0, then attacked him instead when pressed for reads.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 22:30 GMT
#560
TK, what do you make of Hopeless's tunnel on you. You've been the victim of it so far, but I'm somewhat surprised you haven't commented on your thoughts of his allignment yet.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 22:35 GMT
#564
On August 30 2013 07:32 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2013 07:25 Hapahauli wrote:
On August 30 2013 07:23 Tutankoopa wrote:
On August 30 2013 07:20 Hapahauli wrote:
On August 30 2013 07:19 Tutankoopa wrote:
On August 30 2013 07:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Tutankoopa wanna lynch Sylencia?


No. I already said earlier that his posts seem innocent enough.


What posts in particular seem "innocent?"

Also, what do you make of the contradiction I pointed out in his filter?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387&currentpage=27#522


Are we attacking people for dropping contradictions? Yeah it's odd, but not much more than that. It's not even the most glaring of contradictions.


Contradictions aren't always scummy, but I think this one is. I really can't map out a town thought-process in what he did. It seems like he forgot he defended Sn0, then attacked him instead when pressed for reads.

You're correct that the town thought-process is hard to see there. But it's also hard for me to believe that he read sn0's filter, gave a null read, then five hours later read the same exact filter, forgot he had given a null read, and then gave a town read.


Well at this point, it's much easier for me to accept the scum-explanation than the town-explanation.

That being said, Syl's responses will be much more informative to all of this than any discussion we could have about it amongst ourselves.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 22:41 GMT
#566
On August 30 2013 07:38 debears wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2013 06:52 Hapahauli wrote:
Hell can anyone comment on my Syl case above? I'm starting to agree with myself more and more :3


Get on the love train Hapa


xD

I have scum-reads on both Syl and Hopeless at this point. The problem is that they're not talking enough >>
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 23:22 GMT
#572
Way to like completely ignore 90% of my filter Yamato.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 23:24 GMT
#573
If you're going to make a read on me based off of the first 13 pages of gameplay in a 29 page game, I'm not impressed.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
August 29 2013 23:31 GMT
#581
On August 30 2013 08:25 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2013 08:24 Hapahauli wrote:
If you're going to make a read on me based off of the first 13 pages of gameplay in a 29 page game, I'm not impressed.

If I'm wrong, why are your early posts so trash?


Isn't this the 3rd game in a row where you think my early game posts are bad (and scummy) because I tend to force things early on? I make bad cases early on all the time. In fact almost every single one of my town games recently starts with a terribly bad D1 case that draws some flak on me.

In a somewhat twisted way, I kind of enjoy the flak though, because it gets me thinking and involved in the game.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
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