• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:38
CEST 10:38
KST 17:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL24Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak15
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack8[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage2EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)21Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3
StarCraft 2
General
The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Karma, Domino Effect, and how it relates to SC2. How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN Can anyone explain to me why u cant veto a matchup
Tourneys
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) DreamHack Dallas 2025 Last Chance Qualifiers for OlimoLeague 2024 Winter [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group B [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group A
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BW General Discussion Battle.net is not working Which player typ excels at which race or match up? Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group D - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group B - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Monster Hunter Wilds Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread All you football fans (soccer)! European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 15661 users

Desert Mini Mafia - Page 18

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 16 17 18 All
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-13 00:53:24
September 13 2013 00:45 GMT
#2951
@ Rayn

Regarding fakeclaims (since that seems to be the discussion topic)... they're not good.

I understand the individual short-term objectives behind each of your claims (saving Oats, etc), but that analysis fails to take into account the much more important long-term ramifications of your actions. The main one being your in-game perception.

Towns often want to sheep level-headed town leaders, who they perceive as both in-control and objective. When you start fake-claiming at the drop of a hat, you come across as emotional and spazztic. It's no coincidence that people weren't listening to you in the early game - because your play in the early game (exacerbated by the fake claims) didn't project a "town leader" persona. It destroyed a lot of the credibility you had in the thread, which is a shame because you're a damn good player when you keep your emotions in check.

In regards to the individual claims themselves, I think the justifications behind them begin to break down when you start to analyze more of these long-term ramifications:

On September 13 2013 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Here is it:

My mason claim:
- To keep Oats, obvious townie alive. Definitely helped town, would have helped more if Oats was not a retard and would have realized he should go with the plan. Mafia could have shot me (because scum don't want confirmed town alive). Even if i was scum Oats should have gone with it, because if he get's shot that will point fingers on me as he'll flip non-mason.


Yes you saved Oats, however the claim was so sudden and confusing that it pushed the town to lynch a random lurker (FirmTofu) and removed a lot of potential vote controversy and information. The claim was one of the huge factors in destroying the possibility of a productive Day 1 lynch.

Furthermore, Oats ended up getting lynched anyway the next day. Your claim only temporarily saved Oats and created a ton of confusion (bad) in the process.

My getting shot claim:
There was a possibility scum hit doc's target and debears was making a big play. I could not believe he was a vet as i was (and i was correct lol). Bad decision, but whatevs. Me claiming to be shot lead me after marv on D2-D3 start. HE was very eager in knowing what happened with the shots N1 and N2. Scum tend to want to know if there really is SK or not. Town doesn't care so much, they need to kill any anti-town.


This wasn't too terribly bad on a macro level, however it was still a huge mistake. Firstly, claiming veteran is a really bad idea in general, even when you get shot. You basically tell scum exactly what happened with their KP, which they wouldn't know otherwise.

Also, your claim actually created an information advantage for the scum here. Scum knew they had 1KP. Town (and myself) ran around for a while trying to figure out where a 2nd KP came from that never existed. It's small (and was ultimately inconsequential), but creating information advantages for scum is generally a really bad idea.

My SK claim last night:
I tried to fake i am SK so that Onegu would think he loses unless he shoots me. :D


This was OK.


Anyway Rayn, the larger point here is that playing town is more than about pushing your reads at the expense of everything else in the thread. You can't walk into a thread and go "fuck everything else, I'm going to push my reads", because you're going to fuck thread atmosphere in the process.

I think you'll notice that when you began to calm down (after Day 2), all of a sudden everyone started listening to you and you led two scum lynches. If there's anythign to take away from this game, this is it. You have the scum-hunting skills, but you'll be a fantastic player when you learn how to play diplomat a bit more.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 13 2013 00:55 GMT
#2953
On September 13 2013 09:50 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hapa any thoughts on the day 1 replacement on the main lynch target?


From a hosting perspective, I don't believe players should be replaced until after deadlines, or else moderation actions start to interfere greatly with game actions. It's not an egregious mistake, but something that hosts should pay a bit more heed to IMO.

From an in-game perspective, not lynching the replacement is almost always the correct move.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 13 2013 00:57 GMT
#2955
Oh, and GG gaiz

I played pretty goddamn terrible this game. I didn't have enough time to invest in this game, and it pretty clearly showed in my play. Shout-out to Onegu for a very solid scum-game, and to marv for throwing yet another wrinkle in his scum-game that I have to see through next time >>
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-13 00:59:09
September 13 2013 00:58 GMT
#2956
Actually me claiming i was shot did not create an info adv to scum imo. Tell me if you disagree here:
- I claimed AFTER debears (scum already know what happened).
- When i claimed (i am not scum), scum go, "wtf?? 2 KP? vigi? SK?"
- I had reasons to believe debears is not a real vet (as i was, 2 vets lol?)
- I wanted to know if he was scum fakeclaiming or something else (we would find out that later)


Well when debears flipped, scum should have clearly known there was no SK. Perhaps before debears' flip you have a point, but not after.

But again, this is all minor, and the point is that these fake claims have the potential to create situations like these (which are never good for town).
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Prev 1 16 17 18 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 23m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 140
EnDerr 50
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4607
Zeus 776
actioN 665
PianO 227
EffOrt 217
Nal_rA 109
Killer 89
Mind 56
Larva 53
sSak 48
[ Show more ]
NaDa 21
Shinee 18
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Noble 10
Bale 4
Dota 2
Dendi1608
XcaliburYe582
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 612
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1724
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor237
Other Games
singsing2331
WinterStarcraft591
C9.Mang0365
XaKoH 192
Has22
NotJumperer8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick819
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 30
• Adnapsc2 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1231
Upcoming Events
Road to EWC
23m
Road to EWC
7h 23m
BSL Season 20
9h 23m
Sziky vs Razz
Sziky vs StRyKeR
Sziky vs DragOn
Sziky vs Tech
Razz vs StRyKeR
Razz vs DragOn
Razz vs Tech
DragOn vs Tech
Online Event
19h 23m
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Road to EWC
1d
Road to EWC
1d 7h
BSL Season 20
1d 9h
Bonyth vs Doodle
Bonyth vs izu
Bonyth vs MadiNho
Bonyth vs TerrOr
MadiNho vs TerrOr
Doodle vs izu
Doodle vs MadiNho
Doodle vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Bellum Gens Elite
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Bellum Gens Elite
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Bellum Gens Elite
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-28
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.