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On September 09 2013 08:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holy fuck. If my role PM says there is another Pokemon master who wants to fight with me what the fuck i am supposed to expect? That there are none other? That we are in fact three?
I don't have your role PM how the fuck am I supposed to know? You don't explicitly say that your role PM confirms the presence of a player pokemon master. Only thing we know in thread is we see pokemon dying, and what you claim.
Can you indeed confirm that there is a player who is a pokemon trainer, or not?
On September 09 2013 08:12 Risen wrote:
They have 3KP and foolishly shot me, unless some idiot town player wants to claim that?
My mistake on 2 mafia KP assumption, had been working under assumption of 6 mafia and missed the fact that you got shot. Now I actually have to wonder why austin is alive, assuming that mafia had 3 KP and shot Risen along with Onegu & Shiao.
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Hello fellow pastry. Is there any useful information to be gained from your N2 actions despite Kita's death? Did you get what you wanted?
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Nothing else noteworthy happened?
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On September 09 2013 09:48 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Onegu either received 2 kp or scum have an ability that ignores protection, because I was on him last night due to his watcher claim. Since Fate was greater than zero my heal worked but he still died..
Or you got roleblocked using power that scum gained from killing pickachu.
Rayn you got anything about pikachu having roleblock notification or not?
I'm assuming such powers are not immediate-compulsive since you sounded like you have control over when you use it. So scum could have saved it up for later since they had slam around to do the RB job N2.
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On September 09 2013 09:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2013 09:56 cakepie wrote:On September 09 2013 09:48 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Onegu either received 2 kp or scum have an ability that ignores protection, because I was on him last night due to his watcher claim. Since Fate was greater than zero my heal worked but he still died.. Or you got roleblocked using power that scum gained from killing pickachu. Rayn you got anything about pikachu having roleblock notification or not? I'm assuming such powers are not immediate-compulsive since you sounded like you have control over when you use it. So scum could have saved it up for later since they had slam around to do the RB job N2. wtf are you doing? I especially told pikachu getting killed gave scum 1-shot mason.
oh fuck I am obviously confused and need to take a break.
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sigh. pls read again
On September 09 2013 08:07 cakepie wrote:
How can anyone be sure that there are exactly two pokemon characters who are necessarily of opposite alignment and that both are pokemon trainers battling one another throughout the game?
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![[image loading]](http://s22.postimg.org/8slkdj94x/stahp.gif)
Stop this silliness.
I am professor oak, Pokemon character, but not a pokemon trainer.
Do ya'll finally see my point now?
Stop voting stutters, it's fucking stupid.
Go find your scum pokemon trainer elsewhere.
I have limited scope abilities that I sought to use in protective fashion on cheesecake and stutters (+ one other). Stutters read my filter and connected the dots, which is how he knows my identity. Other targets did not, which is disappointing considering you only need to fucking google the flavor text.
I thought my other target might be scummy for not having seen my point, but cheesecake didn't either, so *shrug*
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On September 09 2013 11:05 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't know that I believe you, honestly. What did he read in your filter that led him to connect the dots?
Are you in BM chat?
And for that matter, who were/are the other members in there? Have any of them disappeared since we've had multiple deaths aside from Onegu?
I still want more from Stutters.
Hi, are you a scummer looking to identify BM members so you can off them? BM has been too big of a threat with information being passed around and then getting disclosed to the thread, no? And perhaps scum BM needs to kill all BM before can win?
The wagon on Stutters was to get him to out my identity. Nothing else.
Don't make some lame excuse to continue voting stutters. Especially when you were simply like
On September 09 2013 10:42 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright I'll change my vote considering Rayn being scum kind of hinges on this to some degree.
Also I'll ask again, what are we doing about VE?
Free pass 'till endgame? Or what?
##Unvote
##Vote: Stutters
Your focus before this was on "rayn can't be town and still alive" and "what shall we do with the known 3p?".
Not "let's make stutters talk about BM"
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I'm not going to hunt it all up, but here's a couple
On September 03 2013 20:20 cakepie wrote: this is not the time to be toying around ...
On September 06 2013 17:14 cakepie wrote:
- Cheesecake's silence is deafening. Now is the time when he needs to speak up, yet nothing from him since the watcher reveal. He'd better have a believable claim as to what he was up to last night.
See also
On September 09 2013 09:48 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
And no, nothing else noteworthy happened that night. OH WAIT. I got this thing that said "There's a time and place for everything, but not now"
Crossfire didn't message it to me until really late in the day, however.
Also, just to dot i's and cross t's:
Crossfire can you confirm delay in delivering flavor to cheescake?
and wtf debears?
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On September 09 2013 11:41 Crossfire99 wrote:
I can neither confirm nor deny anything.
I see I have a lot to learn about hosting. Thanks for prompt response!
On September 09 2013 13:01 Felkyr wrote:
I agree that Stutters should finally come totally clear with all the BM stuff. Onegu and Stutters claimed BM/town in the beginning of the game, with the 'promise' we would hear about it. But it has been clear that several stuff has happened there which we never heard about, which is fishy.
Oh really, so what BM stuff do you know about that I don't?
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On September 09 2013 13:01 Felkyr wrote:
why say the other dude is (way) more townie due to a role name
That's not even close to what he said. Try again.
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On September 09 2013 13:01 Felkyr wrote:
Hmm, I always thought Rayn rather clear on this point (although other things about his role are more obscure), and Cakepie seemed to be on the same track too.
No, look carefully. While everyone else used the terms "pokemon (characters/masters/trainers)" interchangeably to discuss the situation, I was careful to talk about "pokemon trainer" specifically to distinguish that from my role. I cannot be sure if there are two pokemon trainers or not, as rayn may or may not be honest. But rayn is clearly pokemon related in some way, and me makes two. Try putting yourself in my shoes, with everyone talking about hunting for any arbitrary second pokemon character. My calculus looks like: 1. I coulda got killed for simply being a pokemon dude; 2. claiming role too early = bad; 3. but people need to know that their premise is incorrect. (3) just recently outweighed (1) and (2), -- pokemon wasn't really a very big deal before, so I could wait, but that has now changed.
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On September 09 2013 13:01 Felkyr wrote:
Stutters revealing the so called other pokemon trainer in that way makes me believe he and Rayn are not both scum (or it would be some scum powerplay?). Then Cakepie comes in to 'save' Stutters. Cakepie, why are you defending Stutters like this?
This was not about defending stutters. It is about stopping misinformation, and halting a meaningless wagon, because there are better things to do and talk about. There was so much better discussion going on before everyone seemed to get sucked into this pointless thing, which wasn't even based on the correct premise. Everyone was just looking for two pokemon characters because to them obviously two guys fighting it out, right? If it's a binary choice then we must vote stutters and make him squeal so that we can lynch into the two candidates, right? Wrong. Pokemon consuming the entire discussion, and lynching between Rayn and myself just because pokemon came to the fore would be a terrible idea. Looking into yesterday's lynch patterns and such is more likely to be productive.
But only I had that information, and it needed to be out there, preferably now rather than later, so that people can digest this, judge it, and work with it. I can't wait for stutters to reveal, because that might be too late, or I may not be around at that time -- I know I will be fairly busy at work Monday, and if I somehow come under fire close to deadline, I won't be able to defend myself adequately or make long arguments about my role.
You'll see that I tried to sound cheesecake out to see if he just forgot about N2 (or was hiding something maybe), because he didn't say anything about it I thought perhaps I might have gotten blocked (which was really odd scenario because why the fuck would someone do that unless I hit scum N1 and they figured me out). So in the midst of all this I fucked up, alright?
I know I haven't been playing the best this game, and fucking up stuff does not help. I can't promise my availability tomorrow (RL) so the towniest thing I can do is offer this information right now so that we all know. That way we can talk about it while I am available, and if people want to vote me I can defend. Whether I do get mislynched or not, I can contribute information. If I let the "lynch one pokemon guy or the other" posse go unchecked and shit hits the fan close to deadline while I am at work in a meeting and unable to contribute, that's bad for town.
Although that seems to have killed all conversation instead. *shrug*
Is stutters town? I think so, but I am not sure. Onegu was the townier of the two BM dudes that claimed here, but stutters seems okay. Stutters also outed the sleeper cell, although we'll have to see what the deal with that really is. I don't think that stutters & austin are both scum -- maybe one, or neither -- the bunny pics don't make sense otherwise -- two scum don't need to do it to communicate, and I don't see them going through all that trouble to make shit up about some fake sleeper cell ala personality 2.
On September 09 2013 13:01 Felkyr wrote:
I'm waiting on Austin's answers/explanations for his sleeper cell actions.
I am also waiting on austin, because he seems to be doing alignment testing or such shenanies with stutters and his other cronies.
Whatup axle, I think you had questions for me but maybe you want to catch up first before talking to me cuz shit kinda hit the fan.
I'll be around for a bit more before going to bed.
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On September 09 2013 14:52 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2013 09:29 cakepie wrote:On September 08 2013 09:27 Cephiro wrote:
I vig shot Coagulation. Cool, do you take responsibility for Oats or Vayne as well? Why did you ask this question about those two players?
Because confirming plausible crumb
On September 04 2013 11:26 Cephiro wrote:
Vigilantes, target these tonight:
Oatsmaster
VayneAuthority
raynpelikoneet
Scum will have a hard choice to make tonight, if they'll try to kill me or not. They know I'm onto them and will pressure them hard, but killing me will make the situation look even worse for them, as they've all tried blatant OMGUS on me.
Play smart fellow townies, I have trust in thee.
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I don't understand what you mean?
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On September 09 2013 15:11 AxleGreaser wrote:
Do you have any hints where to start understand this pokemon stuff.
Where did Professor Oak come up?
It's mostly flavor so don't worry too much about the fact that you don't know about pokemon or whatevs. I mean, I only know the basics myself but it's enough. Basically, it's a video game in which pokemon masters/trainers have these little critters and they do battle.
+ Show Spoiler [brief rundown for the pokemon-illterate] +So after N1, Pikachu died. Rayn claim: He is a town pokemon master, and that pikachu was his pokemon, he'd just lost a fight. Because the death of pikachu gives powers to scum, Rayn does not want to have pokemon fights. See: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19650556There is a bit of talk about it and rayn chases after a couple people who seem interested about the pokemon stuff but it doesn't really go anywhere. At some point, it is also revealed/claimed that by killing rayn's pikachu, scum gained a one-time mason power (yes you other guys I am not messing this up this time!) See: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19684780The possibility is raised that there are two pokemon trainer roles in this game, fighting with one another. Rayn claims to be the townie character, the protagonist of the games, named Red [I know, stupid Japanese video game character names, and the color doesn't match the word, but deal with it.] Therefore any other person who shows up with a pokemon-related role is scumscumscum. But this is not completely correct. (see below). Then N3 another pokemon dies. Rayn claims this was his victory and it has conferred him a one-time mason ability as well. The rest is basically p192 up until present.
Professor Oak: that's me. My role is a character from the pokemon franchise, but I am not a pokemon trainer, I am not involved in any pokemon battles, and I am town. Therefore, I have been wary about all this talk that once two pokemon-related roles are revealed, we should lynch into them, i.e. Rayn vs someone else. Obviously, I don't want to die to this incorrect premise, and it is not beneficial to reveal my role to scum too early, so I've been adopting a wait-and-see approach as long as it does not affect the town scumhunt. (In the sense that town is working on an incorrect premise, because if rayn is telling the truth, then there is a third player in this game (other than Rayn and myself) who has a pokemon-related role, and that's the scum we want to kill.)
Why shit blew up? Or tl;dr from P192 to present - stutters blabs about knowing who the "other pokemon guy" is. Because he assumes only two pokemon-related roles, he calls rayn the scummier of two choices, then disappears
- discussion gets completely derailed in the thread
- I believe that stutters has identified me, because I targeted him last night. My targets receive a notification that is identifiable because of flavor text, so he could have looked that up and put two and two together, based on some of the hints I've been dropping around.
- I need to dispel the incorrect premise now. I try to help but screwed up, making critical mistakes in my posting
- people go apeshit and decide they should all vote stutters to force him to reveal who this "other guy" is
- I decide that the best way to help town is to claim my rolename, dispel the incorrect premise that people have been working on, getting info out to help town, and also at least have a chance of defending myself should anyone want to attack me.
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On September 09 2013 18:41 Clarity_nl wrote:
So it comes down to. You did stuff to stutters (which you did to me n1, so I believe you), stutters realizes it's pokemon flavor...
So stutters immediately comes to the conclusions that you're the other trainer rayn is talking about and decides to NOT reveal you and blow up the thread instead? Well that was great.
I don't presume to know what stutters thinks, and I might even be wrong about him thinking it's me, but with pokemon shitting up the thread I had to dispel the incorrect assumption that so many people were starting to work off. Plus, I don't want stutters naming me vs rayn as the two pokemon characters while I'm not around to do damage control.
You got anything to ask or bounce off me before I call it a night?
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Working on it! I'm just being triple extra careful on top of being slow to begin with because I've made enough stupid mistakes this game already.
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On September 09 2013 19:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
I don't recall you mentioning randombum at any point even though he's been up for lynch twice now. What do you think of his lynch?
I see you've been after his neck since like D2. I don't really think his shift from slam & hassy over to risen is as scummy as you seem to think. Closed casket is...weird (more below)..., so we go straight to the huge post at
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19703910
in which key points are
- "picked [rayn's] filter first because he was the first one to vote me" -- TRUE
- "[rayn's] final votes have been geript, geript, debears. Not a good start." -- vs his own geript, geript, no-lynch isn't much better
- "His only post of substance regarding me way early in the game and it ends on could be scum. Note the bolded, he is convinced vayne is town when he has since flipped 3p." -- VALID
- rayn votes randombum without sufficient justification -- VALID
- pokemon is only contribution -- NULL. being consumed/obsessed by pokemon battles could explain a lot, actually
- rayn voted debears... -- well so did you, clarity, and it was a toughie for me as well.
- "Mafia cannot kill the other pokemon trainer, so they need to fish him out so they can lynch him." -- uh, plausible, but I don't think so
You've characterized the above as a conveniently "timely rayn scumread". But picking rayn first checks out, and if you look closely theres a couple valid points before it starts sounding like a stretch. Could be a spot of OMGUS going on. This also has a solid dose of "omg why are these people voting me for no reason" so there is a pattern to the behavior.
You say randombum's been up for lynch twice, but I don't if closed casket was actually a serious attempt to lynch ranbombum, because it was all like "scummy lurker yo lynch him" and then folks sheeped on and then people chickened out because of noflip or whatever. Like, the watcher reveal got a couple votes onto cheescake, and then herpderp: while we were agonizing over OO vs debears what was that thread doing? Pretty much spectating and backseat driving. Cheesecake finally shows up to talk about his n2, proposes nolynch, people jump off his wagon, there's a renewed push for randombum, and then nolynch anyway... if I were randombum I'd be pretty paranoid about that too, which could explain the OMGUS behavior.
And that's basically the extent of the substantial stuff. Does all this make randombum scum? Possibly, but I'm not super convinced. Fairly inactive and not very useful, yes, but I don't think I'm qualified to judge on that. Not bad as a vig shot, quite like Coag. Lynch? Uncertain.
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I spotted this:
On September 09 2013 05:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
As for scumhunting:
##Vote: raynpelikoneet
If he was town he wouldn't be alive right now. He just wouldn't.
He only sort of started playing the game a little while in; before that point he was solely focused on his role (and still is, somewhat).
I want to offer some insight into why not. Even before rayn claimed he could not be NK'd unless all his pokemons were dead, it's viable to keep him alive for
- try to farm him, kill his pokemon for powers
- wifom value
- thread chaos due to pokemon
- set up mislynch of other pokemon characters (this one's a stretch and just me being paranoid)
As long as rayn didn't pose a threat, that's an acceptable risk to take as scum, especially with that pokemon tunnel mode enabled. Sure being too obsessed about the pokemon isn't terribly helpful to the rest of us, but it's plausible for a player to become too invested into the pokemon trainer role. I mean, there was yugioh or something like that in another game before and I recall that was pretty tough to play, who's to say what rayn might be dealing with?
I should reveal the context for this:
On September 07 2013 12:12 cakepie wrote:
Food for thought: we had a mortician.
I was wondering:
+ Show Spoiler [speculation] +What was cheescake up to N2? Does alakascum necessarily entail cheesecake must be town? Are there any circumstances in which more than one scum visit a target? Personality 2 (looked at the spreadsheet due to the sleeper cell business in that game that HiroPro helpfully mentioned) had a death framer role. Could Kita's mortician-type role have been more than just tailored for VE?
Keep in mind this was before I was able to catch up with cheescake again about N2. Just putting it out there in case anyone wonders what I was getting up to.
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On September 09 2013 22:11 Clarity_nl wrote:
Cakepie I'm curious. First of, did you think the randombum was serious at the time and you realized it wasn't when people started talking about nolynching, or did you always think it wasn't serious?
Secondly, is this the first time you've read up on randombum, seeing as you said you wanted to get it right and you took your time?
1. I assume you mean "the randombum wagon" -- I didn't think it was very serious at all. Cheesecake was the only one to have an actual case. No one tried to sell any reasoning to anyone else. I think maybe only Hiro actually fingered randombum in this thread before they went over to casket?
2. Yes, randombum really only popped onto my radar around when the pokemon stuff blew up.
On September 09 2013 22:11 Clarity_nl wrote:
Also, since you don't seem confident in a randombum lynch, who would you lynch instead, and why haven't you pushed the lynch of that person yet?
I've been warming up to the idea of WoS, because of some of the things Axle already brought up, the MasterYi hunting, and you can see I really didn't like this most recent bit of behavior. I don't see BM hunting as a town move.
But uh looks like a lot of ninja going on here. I've been waiting to hear from stutters or austin (holds some important cards, conspicuously still absent after 38+ hours...) Let me read this new stuff and see if I need to rethink anything.
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On September 09 2013 22:20 Stutters695 wrote: two conditional OTU checks
sorry, what's "OTU"?
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EPT
