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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 24 2013 08:30 marvellosity wrote: Without being offensive, he's a significantly more experienced and stronger player than you, which alters the read. Never played with him, so I can't comment on that. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
I don't understand the logic behind lynching me other than the fact that my alignment illuminates the lynch a little bit. If anyone has any questions for me, please shoot. I'll be completely open and honest about everything. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 24 2013 11:42 Umasi wrote: FT what do you think of sentinel? Pretty useless. Possibly scum. Let me filter dive and I'll get back to you. I haven't really thought about him too much. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 22 2013 05:52 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Back from work as promised. Things I know: People who have not contributed - some might be lurking, others may have forgotten they signed up for this game: gumshoe Chairman Ray Cephiro Xzavier Onegu Zenatsu Risen iamp said he wanted to be replacement, what happened to that? Meapak_Ziphh - should really consider linking the filters in the list of signups. It's hard to bring up a bunch of filters when you have to manually type in the URL. Stutters695 - Stutters, like myself, doesn't like kush in this game. I'm actually curious as to why kush suddenly engages actively in the thread, and I agree with the fact that he's being thread police instead of being productive in the townfinding effort. What I don't like is how hard Stutters is tunneling kush. Every post in his filter at the time of this post is directed at lynching kush, or begging others to join the bandwagon, and nothing else. I would like to see what you think of other players Stutters. Coagulation - still completely fucking useless. Other than his "summary of today", which doesn't contribute anything to scumhunting and doesn't even summarize much, he has nothing. Here are his accusations: I would like to see some good evidence for lynching either pandain or geript. The marv thing isn't really an accusation since he's kinda warming up to him and accusing him with some of the least imposing language possible. So three accusations with zero bite, plus a summary, means he might as well have been lurking. Actually it's worse because when you lurk you may have an excuse, whether legit or not. Coag's been reading and posting and still has nothing to say. ##Vote Coagulation This first post looks like scum trying to enter the thread. He rehashes thread sentiment by posting a list. At this point in the game, a list of people isn't conducive at all. We aren't looking for vig targets. Looks like sentinel is trying to win townie points without actually scumhunting. He also omits a lot of people that aren't contributing. Why make a list of non-contributors if it isn't going to be comprehensive? Finally, he votes coagulation. A super easy target. Overall a very scummy entrance into the thread. He then makes a few vote switches to low activity players. Note that he never justified the switch from Coag to stutters. On September 22 2013 10:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Read it. Alright you win. ##unvote vote: Stutters695 On September 22 2013 23:54 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I think despite Umasi's allegations to the contrary, he's been contributing nothing of value. After LoneMeow leaves he decides that since he can't get anymore fuel, he'll unvote. And then really all he talks about is people who aren't scummy looking. I'm switching from Stutters to him because at least with Umasi, if he does end up flipping red then his filter becomes more useful than Stutters who just pushed kush all day. Since apparently pressuring him isn't working and he's lurking harder than ever. We could vig stutters though. I don't like yamato's big post either. He calls DP mafia, rayn scummy, and then quotes Ray's fluffpost and says HE'S THE SCUM. And he's really got nothing else to show, especially afterwards he doesn't rationalize anything. I'm leaning red on him. Umasi seems more red to me but yamato has more to show for further analysis if he flips red. But I'll keep my vote on Umasi for now. ##Unvote ##Vote: Umasi Otherwise, out of the filter dives I want to say something about WoS but I can't quite put my finger on it. Perhaps I'll say something about him and also Koshi when I get back. Later, he switched to Yamato, who is now basically confirmed town barring crazy shenanigans. No real reasoning provided for this vote switch. Just decides Umasi isn't going to gain steam so decides to vote someone else. Finally, he settles on Chairman Ray after previously saying Ray wasn't scummy. Seems sketchy at best. I can vote this guy. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:22 ObviousOne wrote: Okay that was a pain in the ass to round up but two decent games for each of scum and town. I'll do something with them later. Probably. Bluelightz Mafia "The Attack" - town Sicilian Style Mafia - town Persona 4 - mafia Titanic Mini - mafia Only major thing I see from speeding through is that he likes to repeat that he is not scum when he is scum. And I do recall he has said that here. Is it a mafia tell for Tofu? Fuck knows. Word of warning before you dive those games. My meta changes drastically every single game, regardless of alignment. I deliberately do this so that people can't use meta to figure me out. However, that is not to say I do not have meta tells in my games. In Bluelightz, I would say I played most similarly to how I am playing now. I attacked those I found suspicious but quickly backed off when I found a reason to. In general, my reads were quite volatile. One second, I'd be voting jrkirb or TanGeng, and at other times, I'd vote cDgCorazon. While my posting was calm and deliberate, my reads changed quite a bit throughout the course of the game. I would say this erratic behavior is a mark of my town play. In Sicilian, I engaged in a prolonged shitfest with DrH(we were both town). This game is not a really good game to compare my meta with because it is one where I improve from. I played quite poorly because I did not engage and disengage DrH at the appropriate intervals. In Titanic, I was extremely aggressive as scum. I attacked a ton of people from multiple angles and was fairly honest about most of my reads. I changed my reads almost completely post-flip a couple of times. This caused rayn to tunnel me nearly the entire game. Persona, I was scum. In this game, I tried to emulate my town play from bluelightz. I would try to fake contribution and I avoided playing like I did in Titanic(being aggressive and using ad hominem attacks). As you can see, my mafia play was designed to emulate my town play here and to trick those who used meta to read me. This convinced rayn I was town for the majority of the game. As you can probably see, no two games are alike. I would say my town play has some consistency to it, but my scum play is generally all over the place. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
For example, advertisements are geared towards this philosophy. In a typical 2 hour television broadcast, you may watch the same commercial 5-6 times. The idea behind this is that the brand will stick if you repeatedly see it over and over. Because looking town is beneficial as town and mafia, I do this in nearly all my games. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:56 Pandain wrote: The way he responded to my accusations. Just felt like a townie response to me. I also know that my case wasn't the strongest evidence-wise, so I am willing to consider other options as well. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 24 2013 18:27 Pandain wrote: Like what. How did it feel like a townie response? I assume you mean Marv convinced you your argument was flawed? No, marv and I disagreed on my heuristics. I changed my read on Zaragon independently of anyone else. ............... Ugh. I just read his filter again and he's back in scum territory. I don't remember why I changed, but this guy is still scummy imo. On September 24 2013 11:16 Zaragon wrote: Ugh that tells us next to nothing I can see. With an FT shot, either way he flipped he would have yielded tons of information. Red: Rayn would be confirmed scum to me. Sentinel, pretty much confirmed. Geript a lot more suspect, for all intents and purposes confirmed. Kush a lot more suspect. And anyone who deflected from an FT shot would be suspicious--they are slightly now, for that matter. Some Mocsta and LoneMeow voters would get a lot more alignment-indicative. And we'd basically have four confirmed town who voted FT besides Chairman Ray. Green: the playing field would be a lot more open, but it would make a lot of other people read townier than they are (yes, I'd look significantly scummier, I wanted to take that risk) That's just off the top of my head What does this tell us? Do we just hope that the next 48 hours doesn't let us convince ourselves to get out of an FT lynch? I can't believe I missed this post. How exactly is rayn confirmed scum if I flip red? Rayn always busses his teammates when he's scum. He sure as hell isn't going to hard-defend me when I'm the most likely person to get lynched on day 2. Awful logic. I'm not sure as to how Sentinel is even related to me. Basically all he's doing is making pre-flip association cases that are likely to amount to shit. It's a terrible way to play. The only thing I like about this post is "And anyone who deflected from an FT shot would be suspicious--they are slightly now, for that matter." I actually agree with this. I was a good vig shot considering the circumstances of the lynch. Those who try to dissuade the town of that are quite simply anti-town. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 25 2013 05:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: First read: FirmTofu's case on Zaragon seems to be more concerned about saving his own ass - he even mentions it in the opening - which makes his case look more motivated to post some sort of read for the sake of posting reads. The parenthetical aside part of his argument, like marv before me mentioned, is actually mistaken by itself. So there goes the integrity of that read. I'm not going to rehash marv's arguments over there, but it ends with FT defending his stance on towns being committed to their reads - marv claims the opposite with towns not being 100% sure who is scum. What is important here is that in FT's mind, townie players need to commit to their reads. I don't know if it was his intention, but this post heavily implied he was one of the players who as town commits to their reads: post Switches to me. Pandain calls him out on it, with the post asking if Marv convinced FT of his argument. So FT contends that Zaragon is his top read (although it is shit, and he says so) and keeps his vote on it. Bracketing this for a second, here is the interesting bit. Now what his read on me is is all the stuff I've done earlygame. He claims that we were looking for vig targes - were we? I'm pretty sure the beginning of Day 1 we hadn't found anyone to vig yet. Anyways, he brings up my weak Coag vote, my switches onto Stutters and Umasi, and brings up arguments that can be considered somewhat valid. Until he brings up yamato: Final sentence is true. First two are not. I voted for Yamato when he had only two posts of considerable length, and the second one made him look like a scumfuk. I think I even justified the vote earlier in the thread. At this point I thought Chairman Ray was town and yamato was isolating him for an easy lynch - and FirmTofu completely waves away the detailed thought process I laid out on why I switched from my townread on Chairman to being the final nail in his coffin. "Seems sketchy at best. I can vote this guy." That's all the rationale he gives. So in summary, FT's current two reads, say what you will about their targets, are both heavily flawed. His number one read, which he acknowledged had holes in it to Pandain, is still his number one read at the time of this posting. That's incredibly scummy to me - instead of finding the best proof he can, he just latches on whatever reads he can find without regard for their solidity. Hello Sentinel. Good to have you here. I would like to address what you said about my supposed belief that townies need to commit to their reads. I don't hold this belief at all. I think townies generally end up committing to their reads, even to a point of fault. This behavior is not good town play, it's just what ends up happening when someone rolls town, at least in my experience. I, personally, do not usually commit to reads when I am town. If you saw my post regarding my own self-meta, you should be able to get an idea of how I play as town. Back to you. You initially voted Coagulation and then never really talked about him much after that. Is there anything Coagulation did or said that convinced you he wasn't scum? | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 25 2013 06:03 VisceraEyes wrote: geript claimed he was lying about having a shot. Keep up sir. Ah, I must have missed that, sorry. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 23 2013 03:02 Umasi wrote: Because I think he's town. Chairmans just pretty good lynchbait he certainly was last game, and his play so far has evoked an identical feel. on another note, find it annoying how you're like 'umasi hasn't talked enough about the important things in the thread' and then ask me about two one liners. kinda wacky, but I have a town read on you. idk about FT, slightly scummy for me, because of how contrived his pressure on DP felt for a silly reason thank god your thoughts on me basically are 'if he's red, man we have some things to go on' and 'he hasn't talked about important things!' Lynching for information is something I'm a firm disbeliever of, I think it's frequently a scum tool fwiw, I told you guys I'd respond to questions you had for me (and the only one I've seen is mocsta's) mocsta kinda grouped us together as non-contributing-flying-under-the-radar dudes iirc, so you suddenly voting me with THAT shit reasoning is why I'm voting you, because it feels you're like 'quick target the other dude who's in a similar position to me' also there's a vote thread, use it ##vote sentinel We see an OMGUS vote on Sentinel. Not really alignment indicative because town are guilty of this just like mafia are. Then he gets pressured by rayn about his vote and slowly backs off, explaining that his vote was simply the best of the options available to him. On September 23 2013 04:10 Umasi wrote: annoying thing is I don't feel that strongly about the sentinel lynch, just stronger than other lynches that have been tossed around. kinda want to see what people think though Note how the confidence in his reads has drastically diminished over the course of these two posts. Then, near lynch, we have these kinds of posts. On September 23 2013 10:57 Umasi wrote: sentinel vote for justice! do it do it do it On September 23 2013 10:59 Umasi wrote: no I mean people should vote sentinel for justice :| He doesn't take a stance on the two candidates that are most likely to be lynched, as if he knows both are town and doesn't want to risk changing his vote and being called scum for it. He also is now suddenly way more confident that Sentinel is scum, despite being dissuaded by rayn at one point in the thread. :/ I don't like Umasi at all. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 25 2013 06:12 marvellosity wrote: Hey Firm. Here's a few names Umasi Zaragron (i know you've talked about him before today) justanothertownie kush Who's scummiest out of this lot and why? Do you think there are mafia in this list, if so how many? I would say JAT is the only one I find that looks definitely townie on that list. I find kush very hard to read, so I can't really comment on him yet. Umasi and Zaragon look scummy to me, for reasons previously stated in the thread. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 25 2013 06:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fair enough Sentinel. FT quick question, what is your read on VE? What was your read on VE on D1? A couple of words is enough. Town, for now. I thought he was scum on Day 1, but his contributions since then have been extremely strong. My read has changed. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On September 25 2013 06:30 VisceraEyes wrote: Marv direct me. I'm too busy with work to reread the whole thread right now, but I can filter and give thoughts. Help me help you find scum. Filter me please. I am one of the leading candidates for the lynch today so my filter would be a worthwhile investment. | ||
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