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On September 22 2013 19:00 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 18:58 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:50 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO. I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me. Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time. I would like to clarify my intentions here. The inconsistent narrative was deliberate. Why? You are active. Accusing you allows me to read you better. Think rayn's style of play. By posting an inconsistent narrative, I can gauge your response as being townie or scummy in a quick, direct, and efficient fashion. Furthermore, I can assess the extent to which you are actually scumhunting. The fact that you noticed the inconsistency makes you look more town to me. You want to find scum. You're looking for inconsistencies.
I can assure you, scum FirmTofu would buddy you until you die. You'll just have to take my word on that bit. So, what you are saying is that you accused me falsely based on some really bad meta read. and this whole time it was, in fact, a ploy in order to read me better? is that it?
No, I accused you on a legitimate meta read that I "flavored" with some inconsistencies about your prior defensive behavior.
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On September 22 2013 19:09 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:07 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:00 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 18:51 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind. As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray. As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment. You can see which path I chose to take. Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum. I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk. As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me. Fair enough. I'll give you an example. An extremely relevant one at that.VE has basically been defending DP the entire game. DP, naturally, seems to have no qualms with VE. In fact, I'm fairly sure DP thinks VE is town.Assuming this is true, we must conclude that DP will give VE's opinion more weight compared to the average player in this thread. After all, VE is his town read and town are usually more reliable than scum. If VE is able to convince DP to change his vote on ANYONE, he has already demonstrated that his buddying allowed him to influence DP's vote. In the event that VE is scum, VE can use DP as the voice for his vote, allowing DP to take the brunt of the blame when things go wrong. OK, lets make this relevant. DP ?might? think VE is town. What does FT think VE is?
I think it's fairly obvious. I think VE is scum.
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On September 22 2013 19:13 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:11 FirmTofu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 19:09 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:07 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 19:00 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 18:51 FirmTofu wrote:On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started? I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind. As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray. As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment. You can see which path I chose to take. Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum. I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk. As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me. Fair enough. I'll give you an example. An extremely relevant one at that.VE has basically been defending DP the entire game. DP, naturally, seems to have no qualms with VE. In fact, I'm fairly sure DP thinks VE is town.Assuming this is true, we must conclude that DP will give VE's opinion more weight compared to the average player in this thread. After all, VE is his town read and town are usually more reliable than scum. If VE is able to convince DP to change his vote on ANYONE, he has already demonstrated that his buddying allowed him to influence DP's vote. In the event that VE is scum, VE can use DP as the voice for his vote, allowing DP to take the brunt of the blame when things go wrong. OK, lets make this relevant. DP ?might? think VE is town. What does FT think VE is? I think it's fairly obvious. I think VE is scum. OK, are you going to lay down a vote. Or is there someone else scummier?
I don't like voting when there is still information to read. While VE is my strongest scum read at page 40, he may not be at page 58.
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@DP
As much as I would love to continue to argue with you, I refuse to. I'm not going to spam the thread with an argument between (probably) two townies that will serve no purpose in aiding our quest to find scum. If you have qualms about me, we can address them at a later date.
I'm enjoying this day 1. This is new. I will be sleeping now. Don't bother asking me anything until tomorrow.
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I'm back at the worst possible time. ugh. Sorry, I had an extremely busy day today. Any questions for me?
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Wait what is going on, I thought the deadline is in 2 minutes?
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On September 23 2013 12:00 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 11:59 FirmTofu wrote:
Wait what is going on, I thought the deadline is in 2 minutes? So that's a no ok. Peace.
Yeah, I literally just entered the thread. I've still gotta catch up. Can someone explain what is going on?
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Nevermind, just saw the mod post.
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I can and will redeem myself for whatever you may think makes me scum. If you have any questions for me, I will answer them. Otherwise, I will post my thoughts on the day after catching up. I do have plenty of time now and will make it my mission to finish reading the thread before sleeping.
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On September 23 2013 12:10 DarthPunk wrote:
Ok can we talk about the fact that geript is going to vig me stupidly? Like, I am quite annoyed about that.
Can you please link me to the post where geript claims vig? Thanks.
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geript, killing DP is such a terrible choice. Of the people who think DP is town, at least one of them is bound to be a medic. You'll probably be wasting your shot, even if DP is actually scum.
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On September 23 2013 14:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry for triple post.
I'll restate my original idea---if there are flaws in it please let me know.
Basically we come up with a list of targets that should be shot into tonight. If anyone dies outside of those targets we know they are scum kills. If scum chooses to fuck with us and shoot into our targets then they are doing our job for us.
The above may seem fairly obvious but with protects going out and 'lone gunmen' acting of their own accord it's possible that we may have different than the assumed number of scum NKs so we don't want any shots getting 'lost.'
You want to create a list of people that scum shouldn't kill? Isn't that just helping scum?
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On September 23 2013 14:42 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 14:36 FirmTofu wrote:On September 23 2013 14:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry for triple post.
I'll restate my original idea---if there are flaws in it please let me know.
Basically we come up with a list of targets that should be shot into tonight. If anyone dies outside of those targets we know they are scum kills. If scum chooses to fuck with us and shoot into our targets then they are doing our job for us.
The above may seem fairly obvious but with protects going out and 'lone gunmen' acting of their own accord it's possible that we may have different than the assumed number of scum NKs so we don't want any shots getting 'lost.' You want to create a list of people that scum shouldn't kill? Isn't that just helping scum? Explain how.
You create a list of vig targets, right?
Scum now have a list of town players that they shouldn't kill. They will deliberately avoid these players because they do not want to waste a night kill shooting into a possible vig target. It makes their job to decide a NK a lot easier.
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That is of course assuming that a few of the vig targets are town.
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On September 23 2013 14:48 Mocsta wrote:
Ft.
Have u read the whole game yet?
Not yet, I read slowly, forgive me. I am at page 50, though.
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On September 23 2013 14:52 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 14:45 FirmTofu wrote:On September 23 2013 14:42 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 23 2013 14:36 FirmTofu wrote:On September 23 2013 14:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry for triple post.
I'll restate my original idea---if there are flaws in it please let me know.
Basically we come up with a list of targets that should be shot into tonight. If anyone dies outside of those targets we know they are scum kills. If scum chooses to fuck with us and shoot into our targets then they are doing our job for us.
The above may seem fairly obvious but with protects going out and 'lone gunmen' acting of their own accord it's possible that we may have different than the assumed number of scum NKs so we don't want any shots getting 'lost.' You want to create a list of people that scum shouldn't kill? Isn't that just helping scum? Explain how. You create a list of vig targets, right? Scum now have a list of town players that they shouldn't kill. They will deliberately avoid these players because they do not want to waste a night kill shooting into a possible vig target. It makes their job to decide a NK a lot easier. Have you ever played scum, FT? Scum always know who they're going to kill. If I were scum this game, I know who I'd kill. It's not going to be anyone on our list, because we wouldn't be shooting these people if they were useful members of the town. Scum wants to shoot useful members of the town. EVEN IF we were somehow helping them by leading them towards good targets, we have an unknown number of protects. In fact, one could even argue that narrowing down their 'good shots' can be good for us because it forces them to shoot into a pool of people we will be protecting.
Yes, I have played scum and you make a fair point. Usually I do know exactly who I want to kill and why.
In other news...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=40#793
Did no one catch this vig claim from CC or am I missing something?
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On September 23 2013 15:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well I intend to, but honestly I'm afraid I'm going to get lynched tomorrow and I really would rather town lynch scum. Obviously a vig shot would be better used on scum, but I think me dying to vig could be a net gain for town since the lynch is so much more important than NKs with regard to information gathering.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm upgrading you to null based on some of the stuff I've recently been reading. If you're town, get yo shit together and play the game.
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Finally got some decent reads. :D
Firstly, I want to address the vigi situation.
As a vigilante you want to shoot the people who are currently useless and are unlikely to become useful in the future. I'll go through a few people and address the value of shooting them.
We have recent replacement inactives in Malongo, Deconduo, and Blazinghand. These guys deserve some time to catch up to the thread. Their deaths would not serve a higher purpose in the short-term.
Then we have people like VayneAuthority, kush, and VE. These are people that are capable of strong town games, but are currently either just trolling or posting with a subdued interest. I would say that this group of people becomes more easy to read as the game progresses, hence they aren't the best vig shots.
Tier 3 are people who are sitting in the semi-lurker category, but have some posts of substance. I would include Pandain, JAT, Mr.CC, Zaragon, Sentinel, Umasi, Stutters, and a few others I can't remember in this grouping. I believe that this group probably holds the majority of the scumteam. These are people that want to stay just above lurker territory so as to avoid suspicion. I think most of these guys would be good vig shots as long as some discretion is used.
Finally you have the completely useless. These are people that aren't trying to get better and aren't going to play better when asked. They are either hardcore lurking or posting little to no substance. Examples include Risen, Coag, and Lonemeow. Anyone who is in this category is a decent shot from a vig perspective, but is less likely to be scum than the previous category I mentioned.
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EPT
