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On August 09 2013 22:14 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 21:56 Clarity_nl wrote:I didn't mention the hp check because it wasn't part of my case? I'm not sure what you're referring too based on that last statement. You did mention the hp check. You're misunderstanding what I'm referring to. The 1-shot single target hp check was what I did not mention and was what Acro did not understand. I'm referring to when Acro wanted to use the 1-shot house hp check for no real reason other than to figure out the hp system. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 21:56 Clarity_nl wrote:
Why do you tell rayn you have a scumread on acro but don't give him reasons AND tell him to not tell anyone else. We discussed the scummy setup analysis. I told him to not tell anyone because I wanted Acro to be more open in PMs if he thought I trusted him. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 21:56 Clarity_nl wrote:
You mention you said it to multiple players, who else? Did you give them reasons or is it the same as with rayn? rayn and chrom mainly. I told Onegu that it was a pressure vote. I don't give any other reasoning, nor was I asked really.
Could you make a summary of your thought process in this issue? You lost me somewhere along the way.
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On August 09 2013 22:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:28 Acrofales wrote:Hrmmm, playing a game of elimination, Vivax is the remaining member of House Stark. On August 09 2013 00:06 Vivax wrote:On August 08 2013 21:20 Koshi wrote:On August 08 2013 19:55 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 08 2013 19:47 Koshi wrote:
@ Oats. Tell me why you have townreads on your house. Don't use names but you can at least tell us WHY they are town. It's impossible to actually know if somebody is town in your house. At this point I think Oats his house is filled with scum only. Why I have townreads on the dudes? Cause they are nice and helpful and shit. No obvious scummy pms, natural. Nothing like your house, controversy everywhere. On August 08 2013 21:12 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 08 2013 21:06 Xatalos wrote:Oats, why do you have a scumread on Koshi again? Because this post before claiming him as scum doesn't really explain it: On August 08 2013 19:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Oats, we just played in Titanic and you come in this thread and say that you know that everybody in your house is town and that you will protect their identity? You must be really REALLY confident in this game.
You prevent us to find scum in your house and you prevent your house by talking about how you got elected or prevent them from giving away information about you. Um what? My reads were mostly right in Titanic. 1 wrong read. whatever. I only prevent you from knowing who I can contact through pms. All this other stuff is really weird. I didnt get elected. koshi didnt explain why dandel's actions was scum, when all the things he said seem to be townie to me, like agressive and shit. Killing kush was probably a joke, dunno. Also, he didnt explain why im scum. This whole statement is bullshit. You prevent us to find scum in your house and you prevent your house by talking about how you got elected or prevent them from giving away information about you. Its not what Im doing at all. And its really weird that this is the conclusion that he drew from my statements so far. 1) Oats townreads are either "nice and shit" or "agressive and shit". 2) Oats does not realise that this game is 6 pages long instead of 20. 3) Oats calls me scum if I point out he is shitting up the thread. 4) Oats does not answer me when I ask him who should be lord in our house in theory, but then wants me to explain to him why I find DI scummy over S0lstice. Here is my first real scumread. This is not concise reasoning for Oats being scum, The first two don't seem relevant, and I'm not sure that he's calling you scum just for 3). 4 is him being an ass to you, isn't necessarily alignment indicative. Do you really think he's scum for those reasons? To me it looks like you're angry at him and calling him scum for that. If you think he's scum then I want to see a clear line of thought in reaching that conclusion. I would like to see any reasons you have for your scumreads to be presented in a concise case with no waffle, especially with material from the thread that's available to everyone. I'm not willing to take anything you and Dandel say regarding lies and inconsistencies during the night at face value until there are members of your house to present their version of events between you two. This seems like a really strange soft-defense of Oatsmaster. Either he was completely oblivious to the goings on in his own house, or he had a town read based on that. I am confused about why he stood up to defend Oatsmaster's honor: he's not calling Koshi scum based on it, in fact there are no conclusions at all. With the knowledge that he had already talked to Oats in private this just looks like a baseless soft-defense of a house member who it seems he should have been suspicious of. Anybody from House Stark (or Vivax himself) want to elaborate on Vivax's role in the internal politicking? Vivax, why did you make this soft-defense post of Oats? I'm not sure how you call it a soft defense when I was curious about Koshi's rather faulty reasoning for calling Oats scum. Is it a soft defense of the guy attacked by a case when you suspect the maker of the case? I'll be blunt about Oats, I have no reason to think he's scum at the moment. I still have to catch up a good bit, and I'm interested into knowing the points of view of the lords, or if you were so nice to point it out quickly, where it has been posted. Who are the lords' targets? Which lords are trying to push their preferences the most? How will you reach an agreement? @ OberynShow nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:53 Oberyn wrote:
Dandel is playing thread bully and I'm strongly considering switching my vote to put him in time out. Nearly every player (koshi, sol, s&B, risen) that has brought up suspicion of dandel, he has responded by attacking their abilities and suggesting that they could be scum. This is extremely indicative of mafia play.
Could the Lannisters explain to me why they felt iamp was the best choice as Lord? I feel your interest into Dandel ebbed out very quickly, I'm curious to hear about the development of your read so far. With Acrofales entering the scene Dandel seemed to be forgotten for you (you mention him when questioning s0lstice's read, but you don't push him, or confront him with questions), although you called his behaviour out as extremely scummy. Another matter I would want to know about is your judgment on Koshi. You like to mention Dandel frequently and acknowledged that Koshi might have been overreacting but I didn't see a judgment on Koshi yet from you. I for one am still suspicious of his attack on Oats and his inactivity at the moment. That said, it would be interesting to know who the lords are considering for kp-lynch. An agreement is needed soon.
Is Oberyn really unfamiliar with DI's meta? Why would he even cast suspicion on him in the first place - much less without pushing that stance at all?
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On August 09 2013 22:22 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 22:16 Clarity_nl wrote:
You told onegu it was a pressure vote? Was it? As opposed to a vote meant to not pressure him? Yes I wanted a reaction. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:53 Oberyn wrote:
I feel your interest into Dandel ebbed out very quickly, I'm curious to hear about the development of your read so far. With Acrofales entering the scene Dandel seemed to be forgotten for you (you mention him when questioning s0lstice's read, but you don't push him, or confront him with questions), although you called his behaviour out as extremely scummy. It hasn't changed and I just asked him a few things less than an hour ago, but he's playing hard to get. I don't think sol and dandel are both scum, which is the part time trying to figure out. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 00:06 Vivax wrote:
That said, it would be interesting to know who the lords are considering for kp-lynch. An agreement is needed soon. Suggestions? Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 22:16 Xatalos wrote:On August 09 2013 22:14 Oberyn wrote:On August 09 2013 21:56 Clarity_nl wrote:I didn't mention the hp check because it wasn't part of my case? I'm not sure what you're referring too based on that last statement. You did mention the hp check. You're misunderstanding what I'm referring to. The 1-shot single target hp check was what I did not mention and was what Acro did not understand. I'm referring to when Acro wanted to use the 1-shot house hp check for no real reason other than to figure out the hp system. On August 09 2013 21:56 Clarity_nl wrote:
Why do you tell rayn you have a scumread on acro but don't give him reasons AND tell him to not tell anyone else. We discussed the scummy setup analysis. I told him to not tell anyone because I wanted Acro to be more open in PMs if he thought I trusted him. On August 09 2013 21:56 Clarity_nl wrote:
You mention you said it to multiple players, who else? Did you give them reasons or is it the same as with rayn? rayn and chrom mainly. I told Onegu that it was a pressure vote. I don't give any other reasoning, nor was I asked really. Could you make a summary of your thought process in this issue? You lost me somewhere along the way. At this point I'd rather focus more on other players than myself, unless there was something about Acro that you don't follow.
I guess I'm just not completely sure what you were doing and how Clarity became so sure of you being scum from that?
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Just a notice that I'll be relying on my phone (and its battery) for about 2 days so my activity will drop a bit during this time.
s0Lstice, would you act like you did during N0 again in retrospect? Who do you think should be Lord at N1 in your House?
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On August 09 2013 23:37 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 23:23 Xatalos wrote:
Just a notice that I'll be relying on my phone (and its battery) for about 2 days so my activity will drop a bit during this time.
s0Lstice, would you act like you did during N0 again in retrospect? Who do you think should be Lord at N1 in your House? If there is one takeaway from my explanation that you should be getting, it's that I think I'm in the right here. Yes, I would do the same thing again despite this retarded flack I'm getting. Wait and see who I vote N1. This information will be made known to you later. For now, know that I have a pretty good idea of who I'm voting.
I can't understand why you would refuse to vote your townread and choose someone null/AFK over him. If DI was your townread, that means he almost completely certainly also was town, because he's a blatant scum as scum. There's just no sense in choosing somewhat likely scum over almost impossible scum as Lord. How can you disagree?
What do you think of Dandel Ion now? What about Chromatically? Or Koshi?
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On August 10 2013 01:31 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 01:23 Xatalos wrote:On August 09 2013 23:37 s0Lstice wrote:On August 09 2013 23:23 Xatalos wrote:
Just a notice that I'll be relying on my phone (and its battery) for about 2 days so my activity will drop a bit during this time.
s0Lstice, would you act like you did during N0 again in retrospect? Who do you think should be Lord at N1 in your House? If there is one takeaway from my explanation that you should be getting, it's that I think I'm in the right here. Yes, I would do the same thing again despite this retarded flack I'm getting. Wait and see who I vote N1. This information will be made known to you later. For now, know that I have a pretty good idea of who I'm voting. I can't understand why you would refuse to vote your townread and choose someone null/AFK over him. If DI was your townread, that means he almost completely certainly also was town, because he's a blatant scum as scum. There's just no sense in choosing somewhat likely scum over almost impossible scum as Lord. How can you disagree? What do you think of Dandel Ion now? What about Chromatically? Or Koshi? Dandel is definitely town. Chromatically will depend on how his reads adjust as the game goes on. As I said earlier, I really didn't like how he clung to our whole argument seemingly without adopting any new information, especially when it came at the expense of doing anything else in thread as far as I can tell. He's asked me some good questions though that give me an impression he is trying to figure things out. I want to see which of those gives way. Koshi still looks scummy to me. I just got done talking him out of his big dead red scum read in PMs (Oats) with like 2 lines of text. There's times like this where he really just lacks conviction that makes me think his reads are a pretext. It's obvious you can't understand my reasons for doing what I did. I'm not going to explain them again. It makes me nervous about you when you ask me the same question over and over expecting a different answer. What matters is if you think that I think that it was the best course for our house and town. If you think that, then whether it was right or wrong in your eyes is irrelevant. Also, I'm asking you this again, tell me why I called Dandel town in my pursuit of the lordship, in essence undercutting my own run, if this was some big scum plot by me to discredit him and take the role for myself. To the lords, how has Chrom been in PMs?
I take it you are familiar with DI's meta. That means his alignment would (or at least should) be obvious to you pretty soon. That's why you certainly can't say that he's scummy as either alignment. Having him as a town read is pretty much forced on you even as scum. Your town read on him doesn't really say much about you.
The problem is that despite your town read, you refused to vote for him for very weak reasons. I have a very hard time seeing how you'd do this as town. I have had moments where I have considered you being town, but I always come back to your N0 actions. It points too strongly to scum to disregard it as simply bad play.
I like your "sidenote" about Koshi though. That seems like something town would say rather than scum.
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On August 10 2013 01:50 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 01:31 s0Lstice wrote: Koshi still looks scummy to me. I just got done talking him out of his big dead red scum read in PMs (Oats) with like 2 lines of text. There's times like this where he really just lacks conviction that makes me think his reads are a pretext. Everybody thinks Oats is town and tells me that with 2 lines of text. I gave up on Oats.
Don't tell me you've been lurking and came to the thread just to say this -.- Not to mention that town don't just give up scum reads after being told to do so without reasoning.
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On August 10 2013 02:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 01:58 Xatalos wrote:On August 10 2013 01:50 Koshi wrote:On August 10 2013 01:31 s0Lstice wrote: Koshi still looks scummy to me. I just got done talking him out of his big dead red scum read in PMs (Oats) with like 2 lines of text. There's times like this where he really just lacks conviction that makes me think his reads are a pretext. Everybody thinks Oats is town and tells me that with 2 lines of text. I gave up on Oats. Don't tell me you've been lurking and came to the thread just to say this -.- Not to mention that town don't just give up scum reads after being told to do so without reasoning. To be fair that is just what Koshi did in Titanic. He thought me & hzflank were scum, thought noone is gonna believe him (as they didn´t) and said he would vote whoever we would..
............
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On August 10 2013 02:09 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 01:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 10 2013 01:31 s0Lstice wrote:On August 10 2013 01:23 Xatalos wrote:On August 09 2013 23:37 s0Lstice wrote:On August 09 2013 23:23 Xatalos wrote:
Just a notice that I'll be relying on my phone (and its battery) for about 2 days so my activity will drop a bit during this time.
s0Lstice, would you act like you did during N0 again in retrospect? Who do you think should be Lord at N1 in your House? If there is one takeaway from my explanation that you should be getting, it's that I think I'm in the right here. Yes, I would do the same thing again despite this retarded flack I'm getting. Wait and see who I vote N1. This information will be made known to you later. For now, know that I have a pretty good idea of who I'm voting. I can't understand why you would refuse to vote your townread and choose someone null/AFK over him. If DI was your townread, that means he almost completely certainly also was town, because he's a blatant scum as scum. There's just no sense in choosing somewhat likely scum over almost impossible scum as Lord. How can you disagree? What do you think of Dandel Ion now? What about Chromatically? Or Koshi? Dandel is definitely town. Chromatically will depend on how his reads adjust as the game goes on. As I said earlier, I really didn't like how he clung to our whole argument seemingly without adopting any new information, especially when it came at the expense of doing anything else in thread as far as I can tell. He's asked me some good questions though that give me an impression he is trying to figure things out. I want to see which of those gives way. Koshi still looks scummy to me. I just got done talking him out of his big dead red scum read in PMs (Oats) with like 2 lines of text. There's times like this where he really just lacks conviction that makes me think his reads are a pretext. It's obvious you can't understand my reasons for doing what I did. I'm not going to explain them again. It makes me nervous about you when you ask me the same question over and over expecting a different answer. What matters is if you think that I think that it was the best course for our house and town. If you think that, then whether it was right or wrong in your eyes is irrelevant. Also, I'm asking you this again, tell me why I called Dandel town in my pursuit of the lordship, in essence undercutting my own run, if this was some big scum plot by me to discredit him and take the role for myself. To the lords, how has Chrom been in PMs? I take it you are familiar with DI's meta. That means his alignment would (or at least should) be obvious to you pretty soon. That's why you certainly can't say that he's scummy as either alignment. Having him as a town read is pretty much forced on you even as scum. Your town read on him doesn't really say much about you. The problem is that despite your town read, you refused to vote for him for very weak reasons. I have a very hard time seeing how you'd do this as town. I have had moments where I have considered you being town, but I always come back to your N0 actions. It points too strongly to scum to disregard it as simply bad play. I like your "sidenote" about Koshi though. That seems like something town would say rather than scum. This is correct, but there can still be a period of uncertainty. Can you not see how I could not be entirely sure when there are only 24 hours to figure it out, and no thread posting to go off of?
Well, I was confident in him being town after his first post in the thread. I don't really buy you having a "period of uncertainty" for 24 hours while actively discussing with him throughout that time. I just don't see it. And even if there was some small doubt (unlikely), it still isn't town-motivated to prefer a null read over a good town read - just because you believed DI would care less about claiming scum by using his KP? It's just too weak of a town reasoning. It makes more sense for scum to oppose DI's election in that situation.
With that said, you are here, posting actively. Your D1 posting hasn't really even been scummy IMO. Koshi or grackaroni or even Acro might be a better choice atm.
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Is jrkirby really scum?
On August 09 2013 06:11 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
Ok, you're leaning town on him, but your afraid of electing him because electing him will allow us to know for sure if he's scum? Is anyone else thinking this logic is dumb? Catching a guaranteed scum for giving mafia an extra KP and HP check is totally worth it. And you didn't even think that was likely. So... why not vote for him? + Show Spoiler +I just got caught up on the thread.
"Apathetic" isn't a good word for his (rare) posts. He seems to be more like... Unsure of himself. That can be newb scum, but newb town as well.
Null would fit him better than scummy IMO.
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On August 10 2013 04:03 Risen wrote:
Also, just an idea, but can we consolidate two KP targets within the same house, have a house lord do an HP check on their house, then decide what to do with our KP? I disagreed earlier with the notion of using the house HP check, but for deciding whether to split KP or not it makes things a lot easier to coordinate on which lord shoots who.
Actually that might be good... At least it's easier to execute than shooting in order until a player flips. One of the inactive Houses (Acro, rayn?) maybe? Or then just shoot until the lurker dies, repeat. Whichever is fine.
I can't unfortunately be online for today's deadline due to some RL circumstances. Atm I don't think s0Lstice or Acrofales are the best lynches. Koshi, grackaroni could be good. Soon the consolidation and final struggle should begin at this point in time.
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On August 10 2013 04:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Fuck, Oberyn had the best idea of the century!
That's actually my idea 
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On August 10 2013 04:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay. I want to lynch:
##Vote: Onegu
For reasons i have mentioned.
I know Oberyn is going to disagree with this. I feel Onegu is more likely to be mafia than solstice, solstice is at least giving us something to work with. I am willing to consider solstice/johnnywup/FirmTofu if necessary, but i like Onegu as the best lynch.
Do you think Onegu's play here is diifferent from his play in NWM? His "scapegoat" post and "befriending" post feel like the same genuine, although maybe suboptimal, stuff as in NWM.
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On August 10 2013 04:34 Acrofales wrote:
Xatalos, why do you keep insinuating I am Blackfyre scum without giving any kind of reason other than that I *should be better*? You leveled this exact same argument against me in our previous encounter and were INCREDIBLY wrong. Why have you not learned to understand my thought process yet, after SO many encounters?
You started off very apathetic and without real presence in the thread. You've been more involved lately though, so I don't think you should be a lynch option atm.
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On August 11 2013 15:19 Oberyn wrote:
I've got to get to bed and I'm not sure I'll be able to be very active the first half of the cycle, but something that comes to mind:
gumshoe has 7 kp.
The Lords shoot 6 kp, meaning the mafia likely finished him off.
4 players knew it would take a single kp to finish off gumshoe. The mafia obviously aren't going to spend more kp than they have to on a 2 post inactive like gumshoe.
Extreme FOS to the players who had knowledge of his hp check.
Why would scum want gumshoe dead ASAP though? He wasn't doing anything. But if we follow your logic, one of me, iamperfection or grackaroni is scum. I have townreads on all three of us now though, so I doubt it. It could have been a Vigi or something similar as well.
I was roleblocked tonight. Dunno for what reason.
I agree mostly with iamperfection's list. Vivax seems probably scum, even more apathetic than Acro. Not so sure about Kush or jrkirby being scum though. Both felt slightly town to me despite their anti-town play. But they do have so few posts that it wouldn't be any real shock if they were. Yamato and snb are both somewhat scummy based on their lack of care so far. Acro should be on the red side as well though, for the same reason.
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Btw gumshoe couldn't have been protected because iamperfection said that according to hosts, Lord KP is unbkockable.
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So Onegu protected me? Maybe I was KP'd by scum but that prevented it. I want to hear who the other one is now. Either he or Onegu is 99% scum since why would a townie RB me, I have absolutely no idea. It just doesn't make any sense. That means we should 100% lynch either Onegu or the mystery player today. But who is it?? Although this also relies on Oberyn being town, so I guess we should 100% lynch Oberyn, Onegu or the mystery player.
One of these three has to be scum barring some really incredible circumstances. Probably not Oberyn based on his focused activity and "risking" himself like this. I explained to iamperfection in detail why I think Onegu is probably town. This leaves me with the mystery player being scum with like 80-90% certainty. Who is it Oberyn???
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Here is my Onegu reasoning if you're wondering:
Okay, so: I suggest you go to Nuclear Winter Mafia and open Onegu's filter (he was town). I think there are similarities here (somewhat lacking activity level, somewhat passive behaviour etc.). There are also some posts like this that make me believe he's town: "This is every jrkirby game, check out bluelightz for the most recent example, he is lynch bait in every game." Seems like an honest and spontaneous opinion that doesn't fit with a Mafia mindset.
It feels like he's a bit less aggressive and more "protective" (giving townreads etc.) so it's not all the same. Do you think he's playing to his town meta? I think it's pretty close but there could be a small difference... Maybe that means he's scum this time around. But I'd still lean on town for now.
TLDR: probably town
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Clarity, I think grackaroni is town atm. He's also making sense in this discussion. He wouldn't be made Lord if gumshoe died. gumshoe was also playing for scum, even if he was town, so why would scum use their KP and not let him just hinder town (probably a mislynch or at least wasted KP)? Even if he was blue, which was unlikely, he would still almost certainly be of advantage to scum. I would never kill gumshoe as scum, especially if it meant putting myself at risk (like in grackaroni's case).
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On August 11 2013 19:01 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 18:54 Xatalos wrote:
Here is my Onegu reasoning if you're wondering:
Okay, so: I suggest you go to Nuclear Winter Mafia and open Onegu's filter (he was town). I think there are similarities here (somewhat lacking activity level, somewhat passive behaviour etc.). There are also some posts like this that make me believe he's town: "This is every jrkirby game, check out bluelightz for the most recent example, he is lynch bait in every game." Seems like an honest and spontaneous opinion that doesn't fit with a Mafia mindset.
It feels like he's a bit less aggressive and more "protective" (giving townreads etc.) so it's not all the same. Do you think he's playing to his town meta? I think it's pretty close but there could be a small difference... Maybe that means he's scum this time around. But I'd still lean on town for now.
TLDR: probably town What's the point of using meta if you don't look at scum games too?
I've never played with scum Onegu but you're right, that would be useful (although less than actually playing with him). I'll probably do that soonish. For now I mostly want to know the mystery player though. If he's scum, Onegu is also 100% clean.
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EPT
