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On August 09 2013 06:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:44 Acrofales wrote:
I am not going to paraphrase my own missive, because that's just plain stupid, but what I don't get how you go from discussing the best use of our magics to "HOUSE TYRELL IS THREATENING TO USE THEM".
Are you upset because I am unwilling to disclose with you the way the Red Viper, Sharrant and myself came up with a way of potentially foiling a Blackfyre plot by using our life check magic? Well, that's unfortunate, because now I am DEFINITELY not telling you, because I am increasingly suspicious of you and your way of twisting and misrepresenting my words. I do not want to discuss our "magic" usage because that does not help us find mafia. If you tell me how does that help us find mafia right now to check any of the houses HP´s, i´m all ears.
I have never advocated the use of our magic right now. I have searched for a way to coordinate our swords, and thought the life check magic could help. My vassal Sharrant pointed out that this information might be revealed anyway with some patience. The risks of giving this information to the Blackfyre armies is obvious.
Regardless, there are loyalist uses of the magics and I am not willing to discuss them with you, and definitely not in this public hall, because its use relies on the collaboration of trustworthy lords and keeping the Blackfyre usurpers in the dark regarding its use. Blathering it out here in public would defeat its purpose entirely.
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On August 09 2013 07:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I read that as you think i am mafia? Why? Because i opposed your HP check and you did not give me anything why it´s gonna be beneficial to town? Seems legit!
No. I am suspicious of you, because you keep twisting my words around. Now stop mincing words, I have said three times now why I don't trust you, and the more you continue to misrepresent what I say, the less I trust you.
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On August 09 2013 07:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 07:22 Acrofales wrote:On August 09 2013 07:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I read that as you think i am mafia? Why? Because i opposed your HP check and you did not give me anything why it´s gonna be beneficial to town? Seems legit! No. I am suspicious of you, because you keep twisting my words around. Now stop mincing words, I have said three times now why I don't trust you, and the more you continue to misrepresent what I say, the less I trust you. You clearly said: 1) you want to use the HP check NOW (i read that as D1) 2) when i opposed that, you did not give me reasons why it´s beneficial to use that now. How am i twisting your words?
I never said point 1. I have no clue where you got that.
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Rayn, I am calling you out, you duplicitous pretender. You think you can blackmail me into revealing a loyalist plan that relies, somewhat, on secrecy?
"you will back down if I reveal the plan"... REALLY
If you're loyal to the realm, you have a funny way of showing it, but I suspect you're nothing but a Blackfyre pretending to be a Kraken.
##unvote
##vote raynpelikoneet
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On August 09 2013 07:57 johnnywup wrote:
Acro, I'm confused. What are you talking about? Keep in mind the rest of the thread can't read the PMs between you two.
Okay, here's what happened. Not being able to cite from my Maester's records is really complicating this matter.
I told rayn that we were having a discussion in our house about the use of our healing magic and asked him what he thought was the best use of it. In particular, my original question mentioned that it seemed risky to use, as had been emphasized to me by both the Red Viper and Sharrant: if the information falls into the pretenders' hands, they will be able to better use their armies, whereas the advantage for coordinating our own swords seems secondary to this.
Rayn answered with a similar observation, and seemed suspicious of WHY I thought it might be advantageous to use now. I answered that I initially had thought that it could be useful to coordinate our loyalist swords in order to not overcommit on any particular Blackfyre suspect. But I emphasized that the risk was greater than the reward. I also made an allusion to the plan concocted by Sharrant, the Red Viper and myself to perhaps catch Blackfyre scum using our magics, but this plan relies somewhat on secrecy and I am not divulging its workings in public.
This post triggered the initial outburst in the thread, where rayn basically called me out for being a Blackfyre myself based on my supposed will to use the magic immediately. After I recognized what he might have misinterpreted in my original answer, I offered him an olive branch, pointing out what was probably the root of the misunderstanding and thinking I might have overreacted with his "misrepresenting my words".
His response to that was that he would back down from his accusations if I told him about the plan. I don't take well to being blackmailed, and I certainly don't think blackmailing someone is a loyalist attitude. I am now convinced he is a Blackfyre infiltrant who is desperate for this information that might put a stop to their dastardly plans.
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Screw paraphrasing. You LITERALLY said:
"I am willing to reconsider my stance if you are willing to tell me the plan."
How am I misrepresenting anything. That means: tell me the plan and I'll leave you alone.
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On August 09 2013 08:20 Oberyn wrote:
I'm not really sure what you're rambling about Acro. You essentially took my plan from my first post, decided that you and me worked on it together (I have no idea where that comes from) and now won't share it for whatever reason.
I'm still suspicious of sol, but for now I'm going to:
##Unvote
##Vote Acrofales
What the hell are you smoking? Here is the first thing you sent to me about using magic:
Onegu told me that he wants to use the hp check on day one, which would give the mafia an idea of how many kp it takes to eliminate a player with their night hits. I've had a town read on him otherwise. Do you think there is any benefit to wanting to use it early as town?
Here is your second missive, after my reply:
You say that it is important for us to know to coordinate our shots, but then want to use it on your own hosue? Does that suggest that you want the Lords to fire in your house? Wouldn't it make more sense to use it on the house you want to fire into?
And MY REPLY to that is the plan.
After this we have not communicated about using the magic, and were discussing Yamato.
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+ Show Spoiler [ long post] +On August 08 2013 22:24 Oberyn wrote:
Lords and Ladies of Westeros,
Allow me to present to you all a bottle of our finest Dornish wine as a sign of good faith. I've even prepared a special blend as a gift to the Lord of Highgarden.
Similar to a game of resistance, pulling off a strong day one can spiral the game out of control. If a group of Lords is able to pull off a successful lynch, then they should continue to be elected. Everyone doesn't deserve a turn as Lord. It should go to the most town player, even if they aren't necessarily the most experienced.
I believe that the Lord kp can be distinguished from the mafia kp based on the fact that the Lord kp is sent in instantly. We can use our 1-shot HP check ability by checking a target before and after the shot to confirm that the Lord is not lying. We can also use the 1-shot HP check before and after mafia night hits to try to determine who was targeted by the mafia kp and survived. I suggest that if the HP check is used, the Lord share it with 1-2 of their strongest town reads to try to keep the information in a town circle, rather than making easier for the mafia team to pick off players. I'm assuming they have no idea how many kp it's going to take to eliminate a player, so a Lord who uses their 1-shot ability early in day one is going to be suspicious.
Lords can also coordinate kp to focus on 1-2 targets that we want to flip. If we use it as a double lynch of sorts, it removes the power from the individuals and places it in the town's hands. It is much more useful for us to have scummy players flip, rather than distribute the kp among multiple targets.
With only 25% of the players controlling a vote or kp, we need to find a way to make the non-Lords accountable for their actions. I suggest that each player pm their Lord their preferred lynch target and their preferred kp target. These should then be posted in the thread either at the end of day one or the beginning of day two so we have a better idea where everyone stands. Something we have to watch out for is a mafia bus where a non-Lord pushes a scum buddy without consequence because they have no vote. We have to keep in mind the difference in ones play as a Lord and non-Lord.
As the identities of the individuals of my house have been revealed, I might as well report what I have found so far. Onegu has been the most willing to discuss things via pm so far. We was willing to vote for me before we even spoke, but I have no issue with that. The only thing I found weird was that he suggested we use our HP check right away, which doesn't seem to really benefit town and would provide information to the mafia team about how they should use their kp. jrkirby seemed pleasant enough, but we really didn't take about much of importance. yamato has come off the first in pms from n0. He wanted to be elected Lord on the basis of experience, but he was very reserved in PMs. Any generic questions that I sent his way to get the conversation going he ignored and called them unimportant. I had thought I caught yamato and jrkirby in a scum slip when kirby said he had sent yamato a few pms, while yamato said he didn't receive any, but it appears that jrkirby had been sending them to yamato, rather than yamato77.
Dandel Ion finding himself unable to get elected seems like the most interesting part of the game so far. Was Chrom ever willing to vote for you over himself Dandel? Why is Koshi the one you call scummy, yet sol was the one lying and misrepresenting things? What was he lying about?
I'm disappointed I haven't received a PM from one of my fellow Lords. I'll be getting in touch with you shortly. I promise, I don't bite...most of the time.
~ Lord Oberyn of House Martell ~
I must admit that I slept through the Red Viper's long and tedious presentation.
OOC: I thought it was an original plan when I sent the PM to Oberyn proposing to use the HP checks to verify a lord's use of KP, or its use to check who is being targeted by scum KP. But apparently Oberyn had already put it in the thread and I never read this. As for why I give him credit: it's because when I am in what seemed like a discussion, I consider it a joint effort. What exactly is wrong with giving some credit to people I am talking to when having an idea. Finally, I knew the idea wasn't rocket science, but it still seemed better to keep it a secret if scum didn't come up with it themselves.
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On August 09 2013 09:02 Oberyn wrote:
More on Acrofales:
I first contact him via pm's because I found his conclusion that DI and koshi are both town quite puzzling. When I asked about it futher, he explained that he doesn't think DI truly thinks that sol and koshi are town, he is simply pressuring them. Based on DI's emotional tunnel, I certainly do not draw the same conclusion. He also inadequately explains why koshi is town. He states that DI is overreacting on his views about koshi., but how is this indicative of koshi's alignment? He states that he isn't interested in considering a koshi lynch, but doesn't provide a solid reason. Furthermore, if you earlier thought that DI was faking his read on koshi to pressure him, how is he suddenly overreacting on his read? That's a contradiction.
Initially, he thought that it was a good idea to use the health check simply to figure out the hp system. This is incredibly anti-town. When I attack him for his plan, he quickly drops it.
Acro's house is a slew of inactives, but he has shown little interest in dealing with them.
In the thread, Acro has said a lot of nothing. He is using the role playing nonsense to cover up the fact that he isn't sharing many strong reads. I see little reason why he shouldn't be considered for a lynch today.
What am I supposed to do with kush and Sharrant other than send them ravens. I have no read on them. If Sharrant doesn't start speaking in public we will eventually kill him. If Kush doesn't start actually looking for Blackfyres, rather than interjecting useless nonsense (both in public and in the privacy of Highgarden), we will probably kill him too. What ELSE am I supposed to do? I'm not their babysitter.
Regarding DI and Koshi, between what I said in public and the following missive, I fail to see what is inadequate. If you feel Koshi is scum, the onus of proof seems to be on you.
Missive to Oberyn:
The reasons for koshi being true to the realm are somewhat tenuous, but I do not see much reason to pursue him today: I think DI is overreacting, which removes any reason for me to suspect koshi outright. The rest is mainly just his tone of voice and the incessant bickering he is involved in. Suffice to say, if he is indeed a rebel, I believe he will show his true colors soon enough.
In short, your suspicions on me are complete bollocks.
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On August 09 2013 10:58 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 10:32 iamperfection wrote:
This message is for everyone. We are simply not lynching ryan or acro under any circumstances this cycle and i want your help to find the true scum in this game. Regardless of what you think of the two their activity alone makes them not the best chance to lynch scum. We all know that scum tend b e less active than town and like to lurk in the shadows. This biting each others heads off serves no purpose but to create an atmospher not productive to town because it allows to lurkers to continue to lurk and the scum along with them.
I want to know have nonposters in your house been active in pms. Gumshoe has contacted me stating that he will be on later and as of yet still hasnt posted. I havent heard from grack to last night. I want to know if any non posters are in contact with you and if you have suspicion of them from their n0 commitment and recent pms. regardless if they are pm'ing you i want to know why they arent posting in the thread. IE ( Sharrant is in contact with you but isnt posting in the thread acro)
these are the pieces of shit that come to mind
FirmTofu- Decided to complain about activity and did nothing else
Gumshoe- Had a good feeling from pms that he was town but is mia
Grack- Mia since last night
Kush- Non contributer who i want kp directed at because he can contribute as town and isnt
nacho- non poster and i havent heard anything about his pms
Sharrant- as stated before Piece of Shit reporting for duty! I will read through the thread and and get some reads sometime tonight. it might not be for hours, not making any promises. You may be around but I don't think you have done anything, unless you have been particularly busy in PM's. I believe that your involvement in pm's dropped quite significantly as well after you got elected, at least from my perspective and xata seemed less sure of you late in the night as well. Do some scumhunting or at least build a case on me, calling out lurkers is useless and that's the most I've seen from you. @All lords, I would like to know how frequently Iamperfection has been PMing you and any impressions you have gotten from those PM's
My PMs with him were mainly about Xatalos, who he stood up for. This was enough for me to drop him as a primary suspect. We then talked a bit about DI, but seeing as we agree, he is probably loyal to the realm, that discussion petered out quickly.
We just now had a discussion about rayn, sharrant and gumshoe.
He's not raising any red flags. Would not lynch.
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Dear Ser S0lstice,
You said the following, and I quote:
On August 09 2013 11:32 s0Lstice wrote:
Because if he is going to out himself independent of any other action in the game, then blowing the check to incriminate him is a waste. He is going to incriminate himself anyway.
While I don't follow this reasoning, I can entertain the idea that you are a loyalist and look past the strange things you Baratheons do behind closed doors. I challenge you to ignore your whole internal controversy, and act as becomes a loyal citizen of the realm. If you recall, I suspected you were not a criminal at the PTP Festival, and I still feel confident that I can uncover your true motives if all of us stop focusing on the political travesty that occured at Storm's End.
I see you have made a slight start, and will address your question to me:
On August 09 2013 11:46 s0Lstice wrote:fuck it Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:13 Acrofales wrote:
I am going to step in to protect my vassal johnnywup. I initially suspected him because he yelled his true name in our dining hall as he entered Highgarden. It seemed naive at best, and fishing for others' role names at worst. Since then this has been clarified and I suspect it was just a naive gaff to gain our trust.
However, in public he seems overly paranoid about it; possibly because both Sharrant and I were immediately suspicious of his motives. He claimed to have never heard of evil magician assassins who use name magic to murder you in your sleep. The whole discussion played out in a way that I believe him.
Now, this just plain doesn't jibe with the suspicions s0lstice is trying to mount against him.
DI, Koshi, Chromatically: does s0lstice's explanation do justice to what happened in the confines of Storm's End? What is happening here Acro? I literally have no idea what you think of johnny. Clarify please.
While I see no reason for the vulgar language, the question is a simple one. I am saying that I believe it is precisely because Ser Wup was accused behind closed doors, that he was subsequently paranoid in public. I do not understand how this is a bad thing. I don't believe the charges leveled against my kinsman hold water, and Johnny seems like a loyal subject of the realm.
I thought that was clear from the very fact that I spoke in his defense. Why would I ever defend a Blackfyre pretender?
So while I believe your focus on Johnny Wup is misguided at best, I will give you some time to recollect your thoughts before casting my vote for you again.
For now, I have come to the insight, mainly upon the urging of both Lord Iamperfection and Ser Wup, as well as a good night's sleep, that I may be wrong about the Kraken lord. Everybody dismissing the evidence brought against him indicates that I either did a bad job explaining it, or it is not as strong as I believed. I do not believe I am bad at explaining things, so I must accept the latter.
##unvote
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On August 09 2013 14:27 FirmTofu wrote:You people are useless. Alright, I do it myself. Here is the post for reference. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423047¤tpage=28#551Here is Yamato's opening scum post in Sicilian Mafia Style game. Yes, I know these are two different people, but this is still relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=11#215Here are Ver's thoughts on Yamato's first post: Show nested quote +Yamato77 is almost certainly mafia based off of his first post here. I’d vote him in heartbeat. This is the quintessential mafia post. Definitely my #1 find. I didn’t even have to read any other posts by him. Remember point 1 about mafia having a hard time entering the thread? I’ve snagged many many people from intuition judging from only their first post of the game. This is confirmed from a brief glance at his posts in Personality Mafia 2 where he was an unabashed townie making strong posts and not holding back. This post here is completely the opposite. He’s holding back, not caring, not pressing as hard as he should be. Can you feeeeeel the apathy? Does he really care about the town’s best interests? Do you see the similarity? Afrocales' post looks very constructed and deliberate. He holds back by soft-accuses Oats instead of pushing him like he should be. The apathy is in plain sight for everyone to see. He is just trying to establish thread presence and likability(w/ his RP) without actually scumhunting in the slightest. We have scum in our sights, people.
My speech is simply the way learned nobles of the Reach speak. I know this sometimes confuses the common peasants, but why did you feel the need to upstage the ongoing conversations with such trifling evidence? What was your intention with your "grand reveal", which seemed to indicate a monumentous discovery of epic proportions. With your dramatic presentation, I was expecting you had discovered that Aegon the Conqueror had returned to slay us all.
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On August 09 2013 14:50 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 14:44 FirmTofu wrote:On August 09 2013 14:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
Acro's first post felt way more constructed. Like not even close to being natural cause he was Roleplaying. So I dont think its alignment indicative. So you think the fact that it was more constructed makes it non-alignment indicative? Wouldn't scum be more worried about the content of their posts than town? Why would constructed flavor not be alignment indicative? Because both scum and town have to construct a roleplaying post. Its not natural either way so therefore the fact that its constructed is not alignment indicative. The content on the other hand, may be. I dunno.
In case my earlier discourse was unclear, Ser Oatsmaster has clearly traveled in the Reach and caught onto my way of speaking immediately.
Regarding the content: the young Tofu seems to think that I was afraid of calling Ser Oatsmaster a Blackfyre. Rest assured that if I had thought that, I would have called him a Blackfyre then and there. At the time, all I wanted was to hear more from him, and I said so.
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I am not convinced by those calling the Red Viper a Blackfyre because his case against me was incremental. While his case against me is nonsense, and any trust I had placed in him is gone, I don't believe the fact that he presented his evidence incrementally is indicative of his true intentions at all.
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On August 09 2013 22:05 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 21:55 Acrofales wrote:On August 09 2013 14:27 FirmTofu wrote:You people are useless. Alright, I do it myself. Here is the post for reference. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423047¤tpage=28#551Here is Yamato's opening scum post in Sicilian Mafia Style game. Yes, I know these are two different people, but this is still relevant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=11#215Here are Ver's thoughts on Yamato's first post: Yamato77 is almost certainly mafia based off of his first post here. I’d vote him in heartbeat. This is the quintessential mafia post. Definitely my #1 find. I didn’t even have to read any other posts by him. Remember point 1 about mafia having a hard time entering the thread? I’ve snagged many many people from intuition judging from only their first post of the game. This is confirmed from a brief glance at his posts in Personality Mafia 2 where he was an unabashed townie making strong posts and not holding back. This post here is completely the opposite. He’s holding back, not caring, not pressing as hard as he should be. Can you feeeeeel the apathy? Does he really care about the town’s best interests? Do you see the similarity? Afrocales' post looks very constructed and deliberate. He holds back by soft-accuses Oats instead of pushing him like he should be. The apathy is in plain sight for everyone to see. He is just trying to establish thread presence and likability(w/ his RP) without actually scumhunting in the slightest. We have scum in our sights, people. My speech is simply the way learned nobles of the Reach speak. I know this sometimes confuses the common peasants, but why did you feel the need to upstage the ongoing conversations with such trifling evidence? What was your intention with your "grand reveal", which seemed to indicate a monumentous discovery of epic proportions. With your dramatic presentation, I was expecting you had discovered that Aegon the Conqueror had returned to slay us all. Seriously -.- This post is 4 lines long and yet says nothing. Try to make some sense.
Now you know how I feel whenever I hear you talk!
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My earlier speech is far from meaningless, though. Firstly I debunk the young Tofu's strange claims regarding the way I speak.
Secondly, I voice my concern regarding the way he presented his evidence. I believe he could just be an overeager squire, trying to please in whatever way he can, but I don't rule out pretender motivations. I wish to hear his own explanation. It seems like he might have tried to trump up his contribution to seem like he was a valuable member of society, while in fact being a Blackfyre sympathizer.
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On August 09 2013 16:18 Xatalos wrote:
I think KPs should start to be used like 5-10 hours before the deadline. Like this:
1) Shoot a lurker
2) Still alive? Repeat
3) Dead? Choose next
By leaving some time between the KP and the lynch, the KP flip can help in deciding the lynch as well.
But we should wait some more to give the most useless lurkers a final chance. GET POSTING OR PREPARE TO DIE, USELESS TRASH!
While this is impossible, because our swords must be sent at night, there is an easy way to get this to work. We predefine the order in which Lords send their swords. I propose simple alphabetic order:
Lord Baratheon
Lord Greyjoy
Lord Lannister
Lord Martell
Lord Stark
Lord Tyrell
If you think I have some plot by placing myself last, feel free to randomize, use reverse alphabetic order or anything you like, as long as the order is clear. With the order predefined, each lord picks a time AFTER the previous lord, when he can send his swords. We also pick 6 targets in descending order of importance. Lord Baratheon sends his swords against the first target before his specified time. Lord Greyjoy sends his swords against the first target (if alive) or the second target (otherwise), between the Lord Baratheon's specified time, and his own. This continues throughout the night.
Regarding targets: unless my vassal Sharrant brings his compelling evidence that Kushm4sta is a loyalist, I see no reason to keep this useless clod around. I am willing to give Sharrant more time, because he was active back in Highgarden.
Additionally, I am concerned about Vivax and Yamato's lack of presence in this hallway. These are reknowned knights from whom I had high expectations and their absense is troubling. Yamato has been around, but got into that useless fight with Oats. While that seemed uncharacteristic for a pretender, his subsequent disappearance has me doubting that assessment. Vivax has not contributed much at all. Of these two, I'd prefer to see Vivax on the chopping block.
Nacho and gumshoe have not yet spoken up at all, and I would be happy to see them dead.
My kill list is thus:
Kushm4sta
Vivax
Nacho
Gumshoe
Yamato
Sharrant
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Oh, and if someone feels jrkirby or FirmTofu deserves a trial by by the sword, I won't oppose that either. Neither have been useful in the slightest.
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On August 09 2013 22:37 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 22:30 Acrofales wrote:
Additionally, I am concerned about Vivax and Yamato's lack of presence in this hallway. These are reknowned knights from whom I had high expectations and their absense is troubling. Yamato has been around, but got into that useless fight with Oats. While that seemed uncharacteristic for a pretender, his subsequent disappearance has me doubting that assessment. Vivax has not contributed much at all. Of these two, I'd prefer to see Vivax on the chopping block.
Are you scum Acro? How did yamato contribute more than me in any way? He only got into a shit fight with Oats and disappeared. Question for you: Can you tell me about a single read/suspect from yamato you know about?
What on earth about "but he looks scummier than me" is supposed to convince me that you are a loyalist?
I discussed my initial problems with you in an earlier speech. Look it up if you like. Your response was neither here nor there. That's where we are right now. Show loyalty to the realm and I will reconsider.
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Here's what I told Lord Martell in my most recent raven:
At Highgarden, I received two ravens from Ser Sharrant, but he seemed responsive and they had interesting content. He seemed to be participating in the game, thinking about things and even trying to uncover other kinsmen's loyalties. He was also exchanging missives with another vassal, Ser Wup, as well.
Since moving to King's Landing I have sent him a number of ravens urging him to participate in the public debate, as well as asking for his opinion regarding my vote and what to do with the House's powers. Initially he replied. That was when we were talking about the magic that we control. Since then, he has been silent. Ser Wup has also not heard from him since the start of the day. I fear his keep may have been overrun by Greyjoy longships, or perhaps he has joined the pretenders himself.
The most interesting thing he sent to me was a brief message stating he had conclusive evidence that kushm4sta is a loyalist. However, he never sent the evidence.
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EPT
