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On July 15 2013 21:14 Koshi wrote:EDITED VERSION OF THE POST ABOVE THISShow nested quote +On July 15 2013 20:09 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 16:27 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:16 Chromatically wrote:
ahhhhhhhhhh
The case on Kirby was better than the one on Super, Kirby only looked town for the last ~10 minutes. I'll stand by that.
One of Super or Koshi is scum. Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip to me. I'll also look at Nightcat because he didn't care about who was lynched at all. @OneguCan you please comment on this post by Chroma? I don't want you to comment solely on Chroma, but give your own opinion on the different parts of it. 1)One of Super or Koshi is scum a) Multiple times Chroma said Super wasn't scum, kirby flip shouldn't affect this. Your opinion? b) Why is it Super or Koshi? What is the connection between us? 2) Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip. a) Do you agree that superfluou would have been a better lynch over kirby? Why? I think that kirby could have been more useful and easier to read Day 2. 1. I dont understand this, its like saying kirby or chrome is scum. It doesnt make sense find reasons for them being scum and then use votes as iceing on the cake.2. I will be biased here because I know the flip already so it is hard for me to answer this. I dont think super is scum. You guys hardly ever went off bandwagon. You let hurricane control this, not saying it is 100% your fault as anyone could have spoken up. I feel it is easier for scum to hide in majority lynch as there wont be 3 bandwagons so when all the votes will be on only 2 people scum has good reasons for being on a bandwagon as it is harder to analyse flips because no one will be off a bandwaggon. You got to know that Chroma was defending Super the whole time, I can quote Chroma a couple times where he says Super is NOT scum. Him suddenly typing that either Super or I might be scum because Jirby flipped town is suspicious because it is illogical as hell to go change on Super. You must know that Chroma had been defending Super 6 hours, he read all Super his logs, he thought all super his actions through, and then when kirby flips town Super is suspicious? That doesn't make sense, you don't think like that. Unless you already know that Super is scum and you are creating a distance? Why did Chroma add that it is Super or Koshi?
There is no correlation between me and Super. You can not make this assumption. Why is Chroma saying this? Maybe trying to keep the option "Koshi" open and try to save Super after all?There are more posts like this. Where Chroma made suspicious posts that no townie would do. Like seeing that Superfluous made a case against Xzavier. No Townie here saw that. Nobody saw that case like Chroma saw it. I am not willing to also point that out again. But if you want... The difference between my bad play (tunneling super) and Chroma his bad play(tunneling on kirby) is that Chroma did silly things that no Townie would do. You disagree?
I dont know why he did this, and he needs to answer. What I am saying is it is the same thing as saying kirby or chrome is scum, neither statement has any foundation.
I will go over chromes filter, but while reading the thread I remember agreeing with alot of his points early in the game and most scum arent leading one of the day 1 bandwagons, which made me slightly town on him.
I want to say something real fast also, defending someone even if they flip scum is a scumtell, at least that is what happahuli told me in scum QT NMMXLII.
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After 2 filter pages I agree with everything he has said and done, question hurricane and jump hard on stim.
Except one thing.
@ Chrome
I know one of the guides says lists are scummy, but I am really not believing it much, go look at the last 2 NMM games and see who posted the first lists and see what they flipped, both town.
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I dont like his kirby case but again bias because I know the flip before I read it but he makes some leaps in logic that he shouldnt
Like:
A large amount of Kirby's early posting is talking about Sponge's pregame post and trying to get him to post it. He only starts doing this light pressure AFTER I start it.
In no way a scum tell chrome, I am going for hurricanes first post after you does that make me scum?
c) lurker listOn July 13 2013 10:13 jrkirby wrote:KoshiXzavierNightcat99Gotardcloud-9These players haven't posted anything/enough in my opinion. It's only been a couple hours, so you might be asleep/ at work. But just a PSA, these are currently "lurkers".This should be pretty obvious, but lurker lists are scummy in general.Everyone knows who hasn't posted. There's no reason to post something like this as town, it's totally useless.Scum sometimes do stuff like this because they really really want to look useful. Scum think that lists like this will look pro town and give them something to post about so that they seem active.
Sigh again lists arent a scum tell I dont think.
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On July 15 2013 05:31 Chromatically wrote:I have to rewrite this because my computer crashed, so I'm just going to c/p the parts that hz wrote (without the quotes from Super). Original case is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227¤tpage=28#549The Super CaseShow nested quote +
Super introduces himself as a player who understands that people cannot always respond to posts quickly and as a player who thinks that applying pressure on other players is a good thing. His later posts do not exhibit these traits at all.
Before even starting to scum-hunt, Super is concerned with self-preservation. He is not even interested in getting good conversation flowing to produce information. Self-preservation comes first.
This isn't scummy. I've already talked about this at length, but everyone's first priority is to stay alive. If there was suspicion on me, my first priority is to remove it.Ask yourself: what would you do if you walked into the thread and there was a case on you? You'd defend yourself. Show nested quote +
One of the first things that Super says comes to his mind is that Cloud has not posted yet. Why is this the next thing that Super thinks of, after self-preservation? He later gives a reason but I cannot understand how he arrived at that train of thought.
? His reason makes sense. He didn't have time to do anything more than skim, so he called out someone he thought was lurking. Not particularly townie, but not at all scummy. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he has not yet scum-hunted, but so far I was his biggest scum read. That would be fine if his reads were fluid after he actually did some scum-hunting. As we will see later though, his read on me persists until I really hammer home the point that there is no good town motivation for his read on me.
This isn't scummy. Bad reads =/= scum, bad townies make bad reads all of the time. You say there's no town motivation, but there's really no scum motivation. Scum know that they won't get a mislynch on you, so they have no reason to scumread you. Show nested quote +
Also, why is he so worried that posting this early read might push him to being lynched? I think that it is because he already knows that he cannot actually justify his read on me.
I didn't really understand what he was saying in that sentence. Show nested quote +
Next, Super calls me a lurker but says that the other Europeans should be excused for not posting much. I had already made several posts at this point and am a European myself.
This isn't scummy. This is bad reasoning. Bad reasoning often comes from bad town. If anything, this is overzealous scumhunting. Show nested quote +
He says that he wants to see more from me, but does not give any indication of what he wants to see. When I later make posts directed towards him he completely ignores then as though they are invisible. If he had a scum read on me and wanted to see more, why does he not reply to my posts?
This, once again, isn't scummy. If I say that I want a scumread to post more, that does NOT mean that I'm planning on replying to them. All it means is that I want them to post their reads and reasoning more often. I'm probably NOT going to reply to them, most of the time, unless I have something in particular to say. I cannot understand why you think this is bad. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he still thinks I am scum. His reasons are that I have not posted anything which contributed to finding scum. I may be biased on this point, but I do not see how a town Super could say that I had not been contributing. Note that I stopped playing at around 2 AM my time last night, but Super seems to think that it was scummy of me to stop posting. Why would a town player think that?
Once again, bad logic =/= scum. Show nested quote +
Now, Super is still more concerned with self-preservation that with finding scum. He also gently suggests that we should consider a no lynch. If a town player was under pressure at this point they would push a scum-read as hard as they could, but they would not try for a no lynch. Super switches his primary scum read from me to Xzavier, without ever saying why I suddenly became less scummy or Xzavier became more scummy (as Xzavier has not posted in a long time). This is still self-preservation without pushing a scum target with any significant force.
Why would a scum player say that they were just giving reads in self defense? I'll admit that this is a decent point though. So almost all of hz's case is stuff that isn't scummy. When I look at Super's filter, I see someone who's at least trying to find scum and share their reads freely. This is way more than you can say for Kirby.
Agree with these points, I am sure you guys were on town / town wagons.
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After reading chrome filter again I have a town read on him.
On July 15 2013 09:39 Chromatically wrote:
Kirby flipped town.
I defended Super primarily to get Kirby lynched. I still think that people were voting him for bad reasons, and the reasons I put up against the case are valid.
I'm not saying that he is scum, I haven't even read his filter since the flip. I am saying that it definitely deserves consideration now.
This post is very townie. Add into the fact I agree with alot of his actions and thoughts, he is town to me.
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On July 15 2013 22:19 Chromatically wrote:
The whole thing was kind of silly, I don't see what they did to help. I don't remember anything really scummy from the "Tribunal" itself.
Lets say for a second that super is town, does that change your opinion?
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On July 15 2013 22:49 Koshi wrote:
Onega, What is your opinion on StiMaDDict?
Ignore his initial drama, did he look capable at playing this game?
I would have wanted to lynch him, I really didnt like his filter. That being said he/ I am VT(which I hate that he claimed)
Afterward after the lie he played ok, I do not know why he left though I was never told nor will I ask.
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On July 15 2013 23:28 Alakaslam wrote:
Onegu why did Chrom lie as town? I don't get it!
Huh he lied where?
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On July 15 2013 07:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@ Umasi
@ Rainbows
We three control this lynch. I think everyone else is entrenched (via either conviction or inactivity). If you agree, we need to establish some things between the three of us.
First, do we all agree that both of the current wagons are acceptable lynch candidates?
If you want to look at the "tribunal" have a gander at where it started. If he is NK Ill eat my tablet and post the pics.
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On July 15 2013 05:13 Rainbows wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 05:07 Rainbows wrote:
Not really. I phone post 90% of the time so it's hard to sit down and make a case of it.
I feel like either of them could be scum. Super just toqnreads everyone when as town you should be suspect of everyone I lied this describes Gotard better. My votes on super but I really dont care who's lynched between the two. #Scummylogic
How come I got crushed for this but he hardly gets any heat?
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On July 16 2013 01:43 hzflank wrote:Play by play starting at Rainbows case on Gotard. I will spoiler the first part because it is a wall of text, but I do think that is an interesting read. + Show Spoiler +Rainbows thinks that Gotard is scum. Koshi wants to lynch Super. Sponge thinks that Super is lurking. Koshi says that he is going to sheep as he has no targets to lynch (contradicts Koshi's earlier post about lynching Super?).
Rainbows still wants to lynch Gotard. Sponge thinks that Gotard is scum. Sponge thinks that Super is scum. Super thinks that Kirby might be 3P. Umasi votes for Super. Super thinks that hzflank and Xzavier are scum. Hzflank thinks Gotard is scummy. Umasi thinks that Xzav is town. Hzflank thinks that Super is scum. Chrom thinks that Umasi is town. Chrom thinks that Kirby and Xzavier are scum. Umasi thinks that Super is scum.
Chrom makes case on Kirby. Umasi thinks that Super is scum, Kirby second scum. Sponge thinks that Kirby is scum. Hzflank makes case against Super. Chrom begins to defend Super. Koshi votes for Super. Umasi thinks that Super is scum. Umasi does not think Gotard should be lynched today. Hzflank thinks Kirby is scum, but less chance than Super. Rainbows thinks Gotard is scum. Umasi wants the wagons to be between Kirby and Super.
Sponge thinks that Kirby, Super and Gotard all look scummy. Koshi thinks the same, but Super most scum. Xzavier thinks that Super is scum. Koshi defends Kirby. Gotatd votes for Kirby. Umasi says that he is willing to switch his vote to Kirby (worded a lot like he is going to switch his vote once Kirby comes back?)
Koshi is the first to mention consolidating votes, says that both Super and Kirby are perfect targets (perfect targets?!).
Koshi repeats that we should pick one of those 2 targets. Koshi thinks that Super is more likely scum. Kirby thinks Gotard is scum. Kirby thinks Xzavier is scum. Stim thinks that Koshi is scum. Rainbows thinks Gotard is scum but unvotes him as he thinks that Super is the better lynch. Koshi wants people to switch their votes to Super.
Umasi is unsure of whether he wants to lynch Super or Kirby. Super thinks that Kirby is town. Rainbows thinks that Super is scum. Xzavier votes for Super. Rainbows does not care which of Super and Kirby are lynched. Rainbows thinks that Gotard is scum, but is null on Kirby and Super. Stim thinks that Kirby is scum. Nightcat votes for Kirby. Current situation: Kirby looks like he will be lynched. Umasi considers switching his vote to Kirby. Xzavier is willing to switch his vote to secure a lynch. Rainbows thinks that Kirby is town, even though he is currently voting for him. Rainbows repeats that he thinks Kirby is town, and adds that he thinks Super might be town also. Umasi thinks Super is scum. Rainbows thinks that Kirby is town. Sponge unvotes Kirby, he thinks Kirby and Super are both scum but does not want anyone else putting the hammer vote on kirby (What?!). Rainbows says that he is going to vote for Super, putting Super in the lead. Sponge asks to work together with Umasi and Rainbows, as he thinks that together they control the lynch. Rainbows thinks that Super and Kirby should both be lynched on days 1 and 2. (Even though he thinks that they are both town?) Umasi and Rainbows have both agreed to work with Sponge. Umasi says that Super and Kirby are both acceptable lynch targets. Rainbows wants to lynch Gotard. Sponge wants to lynch Super. Nightcat vores for Super. At this point Super is likely to be lynched. Umasi wants Super to be lynched. Sponge wants Kirby to be lynched. Rainbows wants Kirby and Super to role claim. Umasi does not want to lynch Gotard. Sponge, Umasi, Rainbows and Nightcat all vote for Kirby. Kirby is lynched. Will do quick conclusion now with more in depth to follow: There was far too much sheeping. Half the town was completely willing to just sheep, and this started a long time before the deadline. Sponge basically controlled 4 votes in the end. There are some glaring inconsistencies that I need to question individuals about. Which will follow in an hour or so.
I need to take a closer look at umasi, but reading the thread the first time he felt like trusting town.
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On July 16 2013 01:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 23:46 Nightcat99 wrote:
I just woke up but i have a question i been thinking about.
Regardless that there is a mislynch, do you think the scum will kill one of the tribunal tonight to ensure that theres less voting power tonight, and if none of them die tonight does that make a the tribunal suspicious? For the record, the Tribunal is not a persistent entity. It was formed based on the flexible votes for the Day. Tomorrow, if it is necessary, it will be composed of an entirely new set of people (which may or may not include me). The group is valuable because it has vote mobility. It was necessary because Town needed to ensure a lynch.
The problem is you mostly controled it, and didnt let it move of of what looks like 2 town wagons.
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On July 16 2013 01:58 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 01:57 Onegu wrote:On July 16 2013 01:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On July 15 2013 23:46 Nightcat99 wrote:
I just woke up but i have a question i been thinking about.
Regardless that there is a mislynch, do you think the scum will kill one of the tribunal tonight to ensure that theres less voting power tonight, and if none of them die tonight does that make a the tribunal suspicious? For the record, the Tribunal is not a persistent entity. It was formed based on the flexible votes for the Day. Tomorrow, if it is necessary, it will be composed of an entirely new set of people (which may or may not include me). The group is valuable because it has vote mobility. It was necessary because Town needed to ensure a lynch. The problem is you mostly controled it, and didnt let it move of of what looks like 2 town wagons. I'm going to reply to your train-of-thought during the daytime. For now, I want to see you scumhunt (even if that target is me.)
Are you caught up on the thread?
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Last newbie game as scum I said I didnt care who was lynched day 1.
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No meta updates on me and alakaslam?
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Promise, unless you write anything other than
"chronic acid user" for Alaksalam
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But anything you write about me is fine
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On July 16 2013 02:15 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Context from Page 13:
"Upon realizing the importance of identifying my own biases, I am hereby disclosing everything I think I know now. If you catch me treating you based on any of the following, ask me to support it with analysis from this game if you feel I'm being unfair or displaying bias: (quicklist)"
Onegu: no Town-side data available, as scum- willing to be generous with reads and assessments of fellow players, reacts poorly to pressure (concedes or makes ill-conceived claims in the interest of self-preservation), picks on lurkers as scum, hybrid activity level (active when able, often has legitimate real-world priorities, but always contributes to the game in meaningful ways)
Alakaslam: chaotic poster. High activity level. high amount of fluff posted. insecure with reads, but very capable of independent analysis. has a hard time getting other townies on board with cases / reluctant to post full cases. reacts quickly to developments in the thread. Personally, I have an extremely difficult time reading Alakaslam, so I will probably leave it to the rest of the players to help me figure him out.
Good luck to anyone with alakaslam.
And to be fair my coach mentioned concedeing in scum qt before I thought about it.
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On July 15 2013 22:49 Koshi wrote:
Onega, What is your opinion on StiMaDDict?
Ignore his initial drama, did he look capable at playing this game?
Lol yeah he got me wrong also.
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EPT
