On July 04 2013 08:07 JarJarDrinks wrote: How is this even a debate? 3 blues already claimed and the guy who's only objective is to survive goes and claims the 4th blue spot???o_O!!! I say Poppycock!
Stop thinking like a townie, your posting as if he only has to worry about being lynched. As long as they are the odds hes taking claiming blue are his best. Think about it from a scum perspective, heres a guy claiming he got role blocked and hes blue, you didn't role block him, which means survivor is out there and hes protecting blues. As scum finding survivor is now your priority.
No it isn't. Lynching town is your priority. Because if town get's lynched today, it's gg. Survivor only has to help lynch town today and he wins w/ scum.
Yes but thats only if he can go under the radar and prove not to be a threat. The role claim makes this impossible. In this game hes the biggest threat to scum and he cant cruize by, they'd be stupid not to shoot him. He in tern would be retarded not to somehow cover his own ass if they try to shoot him.
On July 04 2013 08:51 Vivax wrote: There is no Hitler, marv claimed miller, lazer claimed cop, WoS picked the last remaining role and claimed a roleblock. See you in fucking postgame. If you need to find scum, read my posts and Rayn's, the guys who scum chose to shot. Holy shit.
How do you know theyres no hitler... and WOS claimed the role because he had no choice as survivor, it would be a terrible claim as scum. Furthermore scum might shoot active townies BECAUSE they're on the wrong track, make it look like they died closing in on scum.
Also if we lynch survivor today were 4 3 tomorrow. Why giving up so soon?
On July 04 2013 08:53 Vivax wrote: Claimed cop, claimed miller alive. Cop not roleblocked.
I'm the only guy pushing marv and Lazer. Where is scum agreeing with my theory if they did that shit to frame them?
I still think Lazer might be scum, well see based on his day 3 read, also they're are no fake claims in this game. Which means Marv took a 50 50 chance in a semi open setup if hes scum, which is something I think we need to let go of.
On July 04 2013 08:07 JarJarDrinks wrote: How is this even a debate? 3 blues already claimed and the guy who's only objective is to survive goes and claims the 4th blue spot???o_O!!! I say Poppycock!
Stop thinking like a townie, your posting as if he only has to worry about being lynched. As long as they are the odds hes taking claiming blue are his best. Think about it from a scum perspective, heres a guy claiming he got role blocked and hes blue, you didn't role block him, which means survivor is out there and hes protecting blues. As scum finding survivor is now your priority.
No it isn't. Lynching town is your priority. Because if town get's lynched today, it's gg. Survivor only has to help lynch town today and he wins w/ scum.
Yes but thats only if he can go under the radar and prove not to be a threat. The role claim makes this impossible. In this game hes the biggest threat to scum and he cant cruize by, they'd be stupid not to shoot him. He in tern would be retarded not to somehow cover his own ass if they try to shoot him.
No it's not "only if he can go under the radar and prove not to be a threat". If town get's lynched, game over period. That's a fact. There's no getting around that. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
WoS fakeclaims hoping to get you lynched and it's gg. He was probably banking on it being a race between him and you. Once it's quite clear that race is actually between him and fuba, scum realizes that they can't win today regardless so he goes w/ the fake survivor claim. It's the only thing that makes sense.
Wos will die tomorrow if survivor flips on Fuba, one is scum one is survivor. We go 4 3 tomorrow, gg is not on the line. WOS's actions are more indicative of struggling survivor than Fuba's so we lynch him first. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.
On July 04 2013 08:07 JarJarDrinks wrote: How is this even a debate? 3 blues already claimed and the guy who's only objective is to survive goes and claims the 4th blue spot???o_O!!! I say Poppycock!
Stop thinking like a townie, your posting as if he only has to worry about being lynched. As long as they are the odds hes taking claiming blue are his best. Think about it from a scum perspective, heres a guy claiming he got role blocked and hes blue, you didn't role block him, which means survivor is out there and hes protecting blues. As scum finding survivor is now your priority.
No it isn't. Lynching town is your priority. Because if town get's lynched today, it's gg. Survivor only has to help lynch town today and he wins w/ scum.
Yes but thats only if he can go under the radar and prove not to be a threat. The role claim makes this impossible. In this game hes the biggest threat to scum and he cant cruize by, they'd be stupid not to shoot him. He in tern would be retarded not to somehow cover his own ass if they try to shoot him.
No it's not "only if he can go under the radar and prove not to be a threat". If town get's lynched, game over period. That's a fact. There's no getting around that. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
WoS fakeclaims hoping to get you lynched and it's gg. He was probably banking on it being a race between him and you. Once it's quite clear that race is actually between him and fuba, scum realizes that they can't win today regardless so he goes w/ the fake survivor claim. It's the only thing that makes sense.
Also then why didn't he claim survivor first? Survivor is incredibly unlikely to be lynched today because kp is at stake, it's also seemingly the least likely role to be in the game. Claiming final role blocked blue of all roles is a terribly risky idea for scum that throws them into the fire, when WOS was not at all target number one going into day 2. On the other hand it's the best a survivor can do in this impossible situation role claim situation. It is not an option for them to claim survivor because if somehow we dont mislynch today survivor gets shot tonight because hes a guaranteed hit and killing him effectively makes kps unblockable. If we do successfully lynch today, scum MUST kill survivor because he will lean town since were winning.
Again, your all assuming survivor plays like town OR scum. He is neither. He has to account for all possibilities or hes pretty much just flipping a coin.
Lastly Vivax, Jar Jar, Stop expecting less of your fellow players, your theory requires that both WOS and Fuba are imbeciles, when neither of them are, and that Marv and Lazer have taken insane risks just to survive this long. I dont believe the picture your painting Vivax because it requires me to take a leap of faith on your behalf, we did that yesterday with Marv, remember how that turned out?
On July 04 2013 08:07 JarJarDrinks wrote: How is this even a debate? 3 blues already claimed and the guy who's only objective is to survive goes and claims the 4th blue spot???o_O!!! I say Poppycock!
Stop thinking like a townie, your posting as if he only has to worry about being lynched. As long as they are the odds hes taking claiming blue are his best. Think about it from a scum perspective, heres a guy claiming he got role blocked and hes blue, you didn't role block him, which means survivor is out there and hes protecting blues. As scum finding survivor is now your priority.
No it isn't. Lynching town is your priority. Because if town get's lynched today, it's gg. Survivor only has to help lynch town today and he wins w/ scum.
Yes but thats only if he can go under the radar and prove not to be a threat. The role claim makes this impossible. In this game hes the biggest threat to scum and he cant cruize by, they'd be stupid not to shoot him. He in tern would be retarded not to somehow cover his own ass if they try to shoot him.
No it's not "only if he can go under the radar and prove not to be a threat". If town get's lynched, game over period. That's a fact. There's no getting around that. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
WoS fakeclaims hoping to get you lynched and it's gg. He was probably banking on it being a race between him and you. Once it's quite clear that race is actually between him and fuba, scum realizes that they can't win today regardless so he goes w/ the fake survivor claim. It's the only thing that makes sense.
Sorry, why on earth do you think WoS would have thought it was going to be between gumshoe and him? What am I missing? Or are you including Lazer too?
yeah possibly lazer. But I was thinking that claiming the roleblock when you would think they'd use it on a claimed blue makes me think that they were gunning for gumshoe.
Go away please. You spend half the game pushing me and then throw it all out the moment you dont like a wagon.
On July 04 2013 08:07 JarJarDrinks wrote: How is this even a debate? 3 blues already claimed and the guy who's only objective is to survive goes and claims the 4th blue spot???o_O!!! I say Poppycock!
Stop thinking like a townie, your posting as if he only has to worry about being lynched. As long as they are the odds hes taking claiming blue are his best. Think about it from a scum perspective, heres a guy claiming he got role blocked and hes blue, you didn't role block him, which means survivor is out there and hes protecting blues. As scum finding survivor is now your priority.
No it isn't. Lynching town is your priority. Because if town get's lynched today, it's gg. Survivor only has to help lynch town today and he wins w/ scum.
Yes but thats only if he can go under the radar and prove not to be a threat. The role claim makes this impossible. In this game hes the biggest threat to scum and he cant cruize by, they'd be stupid not to shoot him. He in tern would be retarded not to somehow cover his own ass if they try to shoot him.
No it's not "only if he can go under the radar and prove not to be a threat". If town get's lynched, game over period. That's a fact. There's no getting around that. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
WoS fakeclaims hoping to get you lynched and it's gg. He was probably banking on it being a race between him and you. Once it's quite clear that race is actually between him and fuba, scum realizes that they can't win today regardless so he goes w/ the fake survivor claim. It's the only thing that makes sense.
Sorry, why on earth do you think WoS would have thought it was going to be between gumshoe and him? What am I missing? Or are you including Lazer too?
yeah possibly lazer. But I was thinking that claiming the roleblock when you would think they'd use it on a claimed blue makes me think that they were gunning for gumshoe.
Go away please. You spend half the game pushing me and then throw it all out the moment you dont like a wagon.
I threw it away after your claim. Just like you threw your case against me out after my claim.
Fair enough, but you never said sorry ) :
Do you disagree that it would be incredibly shortsighted of survivor to claim his own role in this game? Especially considering were not sure who scum actually are? To assume scum would win this cycle?
Do you think a scum whose was maybe 4th or 5th on everyones list would take on a role in which they were the last to claim blue and they were somehow role blocked, keeping in mind one of the four blues is confirmed, the other claimed first, and the last is a revenge townie who town can lynch in case of lylo? WHY WOULD SCUM AGREE TO THROW ONE OF THEYRE OWN TO THE WOLVES LIKE THAT. Especially when they can claim survivor instead.
Oh on the note of fakeclaims, scum absolutely received fakeclaims, likely around the same time as I did. THIS is why I believe Lazer is town, by the way, and probably JJD too, unless I was an oversight on the part of iGrok. (If you guys believe 3 blues is balanced then Vivax and gumshoe are town as well. If not, well then you guys have another problem on your hands. ) This is why there was no counterclaiming of any roles; as I stated before, there are just enough green/blue roles for everyone (including scum/3p) to claim. The order of people claiming means exactly DICK ALL for this reason, so those of you who said solstice is town 'cause he claimed early? Yeah, no.
Note the bolded, this right here is appeasement of scum. The big wtf change to the game occurred at 08:38 on July 1st
Jar Jars claim occurred on July 1st 23:47 Jar Jar
Lazer happened on July second at 05:56.
Both after.
No one is clear except Marv, whose claim happened at the very start of the game.
Course this begs the question, why did Fuba claim survivor if he had a fake? We can only assume he was given the other miller role, which really really sucks for him.
Oh on the note of fakeclaims, scum absolutely received fakeclaims, likely around the same time as I did. THIS is why I believe Lazer is town, by the way, and probably JJD too, unless I was an oversight on the part of iGrok. (If you guys believe 3 blues is balanced then Vivax and gumshoe are town as well. If not, well then you guys have another problem on your hands. ) This is why there was no counterclaiming of any roles; as I stated before, there are just enough green/blue roles for everyone (including scum/3p) to claim. The order of people claiming means exactly DICK ALL for this reason, so those of you who said solstice is town 'cause he claimed early? Yeah, no.
Note the bolded, this right here is appeasement of scum. The big wtf change to the game occurred at 08:38 on July 1st
Jar Jars claim occurred on July 1st 23:47 Jar Jar
Lazer happened on July second at 05:56.
Both after.
No one is clear except Marv, whose claim happened at the very start of the game.
Course this begs the question, why did Fuba claim survivor if he had a fake? We can only assume he was given the other miller role, which really really sucks for him.
Technically scum would have been able to share whatever fakeclaims they got; I'd assume fuba really did get back and that was all that was left to him so they decided outing me by fakeclaiming 3P was the best thing to do since miller claiming would probably get him lynched anyway.
Yeah as for Lazer/JJD claims I don't know. I wasn't even around at that point and didn't bother to check the timestamps lol. Meh.
Dont lie to me WOS, I'm pretty sure you were just trying to not piss us scum off even more XD thats fine, but It doesn't seem likely. Mafia must hate you right now.
On July 04 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote: mafia hate WoS for what? Fuba doesnt have the righteous anger of someone who got fake counterclaimed.
Maifa hate WOS because he just took away Lazer and Jar Jars suit of impervious "townie" armour. No one is clean now except WOS, provided Fuba flips scum, Marv, who called at the start and who should be treated as immune to all this fake claim business, and Vivax who blocked a shot.
I'll offer that I, at least, didn't get a fake claim. It feels like if scum had been given fake claims, then I would have gotten one
We have two survivors, one is playing remarkably passive considering how desperate his situation is, and is trying to come off as town. The other is doing everything he can to somehow survive both factions. One is telling us the game setup is effectively broken(no fake roles), yet 2 scum at least managed to snag they're claims with pretty much no difficulty. Hes aware of this despite the fact he should have no way of knowing what if any roles scum received. The other one is telling us the game was paused and nearly shut down for an actual reason... go figure.
Oh and both chose not to use they're power, really guys? Powers are they're to be used XD. Thats null though.
it's pretty clear now that Dandel Ion forget to hand out fake roles or something of the like in light of the huge early game kerfuful. WOS's story makes sense as crazy as a lot of it sounds because hes in a crazy position and it's a crazy game, so it is what it is I guess.
Fuba on the other hand is pretty much saying-
"nothing to see here fellow human".
I'm sorry Fuba ) : you got caught in a terrible position (having to claim miller) and similar to WOS, you had to make the best of it by stealing survivor. Sadly your still scum / : we are town, we lynch who we must.
I invite anyone to argue why Fuba makes more sense as survivor in light of the events that have shaken the very foundation of the game.
On July 04 2013 11:05 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol like I want scum looking for more reasons to kill me. I'll just be an innocent bystander for a while, how about that?
My god WOS, you know what this means? You've given me the greatest gift of all! I CAN GO BACK TO MY JAR JAR READ!!!
On July 04 2013 11:47 Oatsmaster wrote: dont give VT's rolenames next time?
Lol. postgame.
Anyway.
What do you think of stutters gumshoe and WoS?
Who are you asking this question to 0_0, me? sorry the wordings just a bit confusing.
So as I mentioned before, if we assume Marv, WOS and Vivax are confirmed, that leaves 5 suspects (I'm not including Gumshoe cause I'm a bit biased about him)
Jar Jar= I'm feeling hes guaranteed scum, we only got off his back initially because of his claim. Once Fuba flips red, well know for sure if scum have fake claims. If thats the case he should be the first person we look at. He felt Rayne was scum, hes been advocating WOS over Fuba... in general hes contributed very little. =Scum.
Oats=you, I'm reading townie / : but for the life of me I dont know why. Why would you say no lynch XD ? Dont answer that because scum would never propose that, suffice to say your pretty green to me. =Townie
Solstice = meh, leaning null I guess? Like theres never really an agenda with his posts, but he doesnt exactly hard contribute. Could easily be scum =Null-scum
Lazer = Lazer as scum really depends on if your more willing to believe they're is as many fake blue claims as they're are actual blues, or if your more willing to believe that they're are three blues. I'm leaning townie because he sheeped against Jar Jar early on and my read against him is pretty strong, he also contributed to discussion alot at intervals, and like Rayne I dont think they're would be a miller (Marv confirmed) without a detective. Could be easily wrong about him= null-town
Stutters. My blind spot. Everyone calls him scummy, dont look at him much because he feels like such a buss. Honestly dont know.
On July 04 2013 11:10 gumshoe wrote: Also Fuba was kind enough to say this much.
I'll offer that I, at least, didn't get a fake claim. It feels like if scum had been given fake claims, then I would have gotten one
We have two survivors, one is playing remarkably passive considering how desperate his situation is, and is trying to come off as town. The other is doing everything he can to somehow survive both factions. One is telling us the game setup is effectively broken(no fake roles), yet 2 scum at least managed to snag they're claims with pretty much no difficulty. Hes aware of this despite the fact he should have no way of knowing what if any roles scum received. The other one is telling us the game was paused and nearly shut down for an actual reason... go figure.
Oh and both chose not to use they're power, really guys? Powers are they're to be used XD. Thats null though.
it's pretty clear now that Dandel Ion forget to hand out fake roles or something of the like in light of the huge early game kerfuful. WOS's story makes sense as crazy as a lot of it sounds because hes in a crazy position and it's a crazy game, so it is what it is I guess.
Fuba on the other hand is pretty much saying-
"nothing to see here fellow human".
I'm sorry Fuba ) : you got caught in a terrible position (having to claim miller) and similar to WOS, you had to make the best of it by stealing survivor. Sadly your still scum / : we are town, we lynch who we must.
I invite anyone to argue why Fuba makes more sense as survivor in light of the events that have shaken the very foundation of the game.
So both of us stole survivor? How 'bout that.
Hes survivor, when you saw survivor was untaken you took it, because the alternative was miller claim, which is terrible. You claiming Survivor was not a god send to him, him leaving survivor open was the godsend to you.
On July 04 2013 12:05 gumshoe wrote: Jar Jar= I'm feeling hes guaranteed scum, we only got off his back initially because of his claim. Once Fuba flips red, well know for sure if scum have fake claims. If thats the case he should be the first person we look at. He felt Rayne was scum, hes been advocating WOS over Fuba... in general hes contributed very little. =Scum.
You apparently didn't read what WoS wrote. If he's truth-telling then I'm even more guaranteed town then I was before.
No, your claim came after the kerfufule that would result in new roles. I called him out on it. Go back and read.
I don't see why a survivor would be fucked without a safeclaim. I certainly expected one, but not having it worked out alright until scum decided to save themselves with a fake. I also don't see why he would use the fakeclaim when he admits that he'll be fucked either way (and as for fakeclaims, clearly my opinion has shifted in light of recent events). Claim survivor, say you're not gonna use your power so that scum won't get mad at you, and scum have no reason to focus on you over anyone else. Town will still be suspicious, but you can make them believe you. As I said, it's a thin line to walk, but certainly less scummy than fakeclaiming vigi and then fakeclaiming survivor.
Whats changed your opinion on role claims Fuba? The only recent confirmation has come from WOS, but if hes scum, then why would he tell us that? Are you saying hes telling the truth in some regards? Were you lying about role claims originally? Also why the fuuck would survivor, the hardest role in this game(If you dont understand this your not town), not receive a secret role as well? Did WOS piss Igrok off before this game started? Why are you defending whats clearly a retarded position that you supposedly have to hold. You should be the one complaining seeing as your in the roughest spot, instead your what? Convincing us that third party isn't hard? Dont piss in my ear and tell me it's raining scum.
[quote]The scummiest thing I've done all game is not be available. That is the case against me. I've responded to everything stutters has said, and he's conveniently failed to care about any of it. I've answered all of marv's questions, and they've been ignored or uncommented on as well. My questions towards others have been ignored. It's really frustrating that I'm suddenly more suspicious than the fakeclaiming scum because I happened to be unavailable at the time of the mass claim. I didn't act any differently this game than I would have as a vt, because when I'm town I always last until the end of the game anyway (got vigi'd once, was sad). The claim didn't seem like a big deal to me because at that point, it wasn't. I'd had more than enough time to consider it since the idea of mass claiming had been brought up. All it meant was that I was going to have to keep acting like myself, but tell scum I wouldn't bother them. I really didn't expect a scum counterclaim, but it makes sense given the situation.
You mean not contributing? Only responding when they're is a case against you? Not scummy at all.
On July 04 2013 12:05 gumshoe wrote: Jar Jar= I'm feeling hes guaranteed scum, we only got off his back initially because of his claim. Once Fuba flips red, well know for sure if scum have fake claims. If thats the case he should be the first person we look at. He felt Rayne was scum, hes been advocating WOS over Fuba... in general hes contributed very little. =Scum.
You apparently didn't read what WoS wrote. If he's truth-telling then I'm even more guaranteed town then I was before.
No, your claim came after the kerfufule that would result in new roles. I called him out on it. Go back and read.
You go back and read. Only after I claimed and the town started talking about a mass claim did igrok decide to send out fakeclaims according to WoS.
I mean this is actually a reason I don't believe WoS. The game pausing is not when the new roles were sent out according to him. That was some other issue I guess?
He apparently received his fakeclaim sometime during the nightphase.
Yeah as for Lazer/JJD claims I don't know. I wasn't even around at that point and didn't bother to check the timestamps lol. Meh.
Sorry, where did you get this info about night phase? How would you know that? He didn't say anything even remotely like that.
Im ignoring the middle part of this thread because it's a great big ball of whine and Wifom. This is fascinating though.
I don't see why a survivor would be fucked without a safeclaim. I certainly expected one, but not having it worked out alright until scum decided to save themselves with a fake. I also don't see why he would use the fakeclaim when he admits that he'll be fucked either way (and as for fakeclaims, clearly my opinion has shifted in light of recent events). Claim survivor, say you're not gonna use your power so that scum won't get mad at you, and scum have no reason to focus on you over anyone else. Town will still be suspicious, but you can make them believe you. As I said, it's a thin line to walk, but certainly less scummy than fakeclaiming vigi and then fakeclaiming survivor.
Whats changed your opinion on role claims Fuba? The only recent confirmation has come from WOS, but if hes scum, then why would he tell us that? Are you saying hes telling the truth in some regards? Were you lying about role claims originally? Also why the fuuck would survivor, the hardest role in this game(If you dont understand this your not town), not receive a secret role as well? Did WOS piss Igrok off before this game started? Why are you defending whats clearly a retarded position that you supposedly have to hold. You should be the one complaining seeing as your in the roughest spot, instead your what? Convincing us that third party isn't hard? Dont piss in my ear and tell me it's raining scum.
[quote]The scummiest thing I've done all game is not be available. That is the case against me. I've responded to everything stutters has said, and he's conveniently failed to care about any of it. I've answered all of marv's questions, and they've been ignored or uncommented on as well. My questions towards others have been ignored. It's really frustrating that I'm suddenly more suspicious than the fakeclaiming scum because I happened to be unavailable at the time of the mass claim. I didn't act any differently this game than I would have as a vt, because when I'm town I always last until the end of the game anyway (got vigi'd once, was sad). The claim didn't seem like a big deal to me because at that point, it wasn't. I'd had more than enough time to consider it since the idea of mass claiming had been brought up. All it meant was that I was going to have to keep acting like myself, but tell scum I wouldn't bother them. I really didn't expect a scum counterclaim, but it makes sense given the situation.
You mean not contributing? Only responding when they're is a case against you? Not scummy at all.
Ebwop, the second paragraph is me addressing your change of opinion on role claims.
EPT
