EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XLII
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On May 24 2013 08:06 Promethelax wrote: must be the flavour (I almost think I could convince my girlfriend to join this game just based on the flavour. Almost. But not quite). somebody twisted my arm. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I've played on a few other sites. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 11:05 Xzavier wrote: No i haven't played anywhere else, iv played IRL a little bit, but mostly its from spending over the last 3 days like 4 hours reading all the guides on TL and listening to one of the podcasts, all of it was super intriguing and useful. but this is my first game of forum mafia. ah, ok. good to know. I don't usually make plans to find scum. I'm more about reads (weighing up posts and determining whether they seem to come from a town win condition) than about strategy. I read the game posts and something eventually strikes me as scummy, and off I go. Speaking of off I go, I'm about to hit the freeway. Will check back in when I'm home and settled. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 11:25 Spicydinosaur wrote: I'm more of the opinion that we should pressure lurkers, and once they start posting ease off on them. Lynching a lurker D1 is almost always a townie, especially in a newbie game. Saying that your votes on lurkers will be pressure votes, and telling them what they need to do for you to ease off pretty much neutralizes any pressure you might otherwise be able to muster. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 13:12 Xzavier wrote: I was at first to. but the more he posts the less pro-town he gets. he could b the fucking SK for all i know. Some scum players play aggressively. I'm really not seeing the gain for scum (or sk) in drawing early attention, pushing for reactions, etc. On the other hand, pushing players for reactions is something town players should want to do. In a regular game I'd be looking around to see who stopped posting when the brouhaha started. In a newbie game, not so much. Scum players sometimes feel uncertain when the game thread suddenly takes off or changes direction, and wait to see where town players go with things before jumping back in. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 13:23 iVLosK! wrote: fferyllt and Onegu. You guys are saying you think Im scum but your votes aren't on me. I don't like that shit, throw 'em on. The hell I am. I'm saying I am leaning town on you, brah. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 13:38 Umasi wrote: Tell us what you think so far, I will start writing my list. Most of what I'm seeing so far looks town-on-town. And I see trepidation about how serious early votes are, which looks pretty newb to me. Everybody in the game could vote the same player in this next hour and it might not mean a thing in terms of who eventually gets lynched. iVLosK! is provoking lots of reactions and that is good. It gives other players stuff to think about and analyze about every player involved, not just iVLosK!. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 13:38 iVLosK! wrote: You are right, to a degree. You're in the smart kids club, so we can talk about this. There is always value in establishing your innocence, if you're town. Though sometimes, a little pressure has it's uses.  Indeed. My motivations usually speak for themselves, whatever my alignment. It works out pretty well when I'm town. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 13:53 Umasi wrote: I agree that iV provoking votes is good, I disagree that it's town on town, assuming iV is included in the town. it's giving us stuff to think about, but is it the correct stuff to think about? It wouldn't have taken much to settle the at the beginning minor accusation. If he did diffuse it, town could be doing OTHER productive things. I wish he'd diffused it, I really do. I think everyone else getting involved in the discussion around iV is town except for iV, who hasn't actually given me a fucking reason to think he's town. If he'd diffused it, then I probably wouldn't have any town reads in my hip pocket right now. And I'd be suspicious as fuck of him for trying to smooth things over. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 21:53 Skanjab1s wrote: My posts purpose is to lynch scum, something I haven't seen from you. You criticize me for my post yet it gives you a townread on me? Rather contradictory. Umasi comes across as a townie to me, albeit one that was gotten to by ivloski. Pedit: I'm not really new. IvLosK! and Umasi are the only players whose alignment you have an opinion on? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
"Make believe I have a mental handicap because I don't really see how Umasi's behavior was anti-town." Or this to xZAv "Now that I've ruffled your feathers" what ruffled feathers? Yavanna you agreed with xZav in that post. And yet with assurances that you'll be plenty abrasive when the time comes. On June 06 2013 16:23 Yavanna wrote: Shit I'm sorry...? Should I put on my bitch face? I mean there's like 3 people talking here. When someone comes into the thread that I should jump on I will, but I haven't seen anything to make me do so yet. I'm really not so nice all the time but those of you who I'm conversing with are townie as fuck imo. Should I pull an iV and attack you just for shits? On June 06 2013 16:30 Yavanna wrote: Ermahgerd...I can feel the Vlosk coming!! RAAAAGGGGEEE!! No but in all seriousness, I just don't see the point in being an asshole unless its warranted. When I think someone is doing something scummy I'll jump all over their ass and not feel bad about it in the least. I'm not seeing any sign of this iron fist in the velvet glove. Yavanna is working for minor clarifications from her town reads, mostly, which isn't such a great place to put a lot of effort. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 23:33 iVLosK! wrote: So I'm bad because I'm abrasive Didn't we already have this discussion? and Yavanna is bad for the opposite reason? It's not just the sweetness and light, it's who she engages with to ask questions vs who she makes 3rd perosn observations about. i.e., interacting directly with town reads asking questions that aren't likely to refine those reads but look engaged. I have her pretty solidly null atm. this could be all personality and style, esp if she's new to mafia. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 23:15 Onegu wrote: Ok 2 things the first he kept the iV thing going on alot lomger than it needed to be. Secomd and the thing that made me feel the most was he would make a statement and when the majority had different ideals he would conform to them. This is what feels like he is scum. These are both good observations. "Thinking what I'm thinking" isn't considered a reliable town tell but it seldom steers me wrong. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
He mentions that this is his first game when he /in'd. His first several posts have an enthusiastic and confused newb feel. As iL mentioned (I'm not writing your name out any more because I'm lazy) his trajectory on and off his first vote was confusing. It looked like a random vote, and I don't understand why he decided to remove it so quickly unless maybe it was because nobody else was voting randomly...in which case, hmm. Maybe natural town herd movement. Maybe trying to fit in. He takes an almost immediate dislike to iL. At the time, I thought those first two votes on iL looked like newb townish reactions, and was looking forward to seeing who would go next because the next vote would have looked scummy to me. But, since iL was actually pressuring people to join that wagon, so much for that. His vote on iL and subsequent unvote, though are followy (of xZav). And I kinda disliked that removing the vote was not really due to reluctantly deciding IL is town, but because he didn't think the lynch was viable. The amount of aggravation over the iL's play seems over the top, too, but...playstyle. Sometimes players just irritate someone and they can't get past it. If so...then get past it. Make sure your reasons for thinking someone is scummy aren't too colored by dislike or annoyance. Posts like this one don't really strike me as all that newbish, though On June 06 2013 13:32 Umasi wrote: It may be all you need, but think about what the town needs, and explain why this entire exchange has furthered our understanding of the current game. Why are you responding the way you are, if I think it is apparently pro-mafia? You don't want a townie thinking what you're doing is pro-mafia. If you think I'm mafia, say so, and I'll happily respond. Don't just sit there and absolve yourself using the logic of "I am town" and "I said I'd stick to my vote, and was explaining why" Because the logic of "I am town" does not WORK if you don't play in a protown way, and saying "I'd stick to my vote, and was explaining why" is stupid if you aren't fucking explaining why. Telling us that you're going to vote what you think is the correct vote is fine, but the entire excuse reads as just that to me. An excuse. Re you readslist, one thing that struck me as odd was that you needed more posts from me. I wasn't the most prolific poster of the crowd last night, but I had made several posts by then, and had taken a strong stance on iV's reaction-gathering as well as the reactions. Was there something specific you thought I'd comment on around that time? Basically, Umasi, your reactions mostly seem town-motivated, but it's a strange mix of giving up too quickly on some things and holding on rather long on others, which makes me a little uneasy. *I'm mentioning the page 1 player links because I didn't figure it out for myself in my previous game here. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 02:25 Gotard wrote: After reading everything twice I've came with conclusion that some of you are far from being newbies like me (or you are just really good at pretending which is even worse if you are aren't townies T_T). All in all after some hardcore analysis (aka reading) I sadly do know nothing  . Xzavier seemed to be a scum (after following Umasi's accusations) but then he had some awesome pro-town posts. What to do!? What to do!? Ask questions. Make observations. And when you are ready, use your vote. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 02:34 Yavanna wrote: At the time I asked these questions, the only people in thread responding were people I’ve placed town reads on. I ask for clarification because I am generally interested in what some people find as scum play. I want to make sure the town is all on the same page. Is that not a good mentality to have? Part of playing this game, as far as I can understand, is making sure the town is all on the same page so that we can collectively lynch mafia. How do I do this without asking questions? You can ask questions of someone who's not currently posting. It's a little early for town to be finding a single page to be on. Right now, it's good for people to be questing and poking at what's been posted and making angry noises about lurkers. Do you have someone who is a high priority to get sorted? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 15:08 Onegu wrote: I think it is apperant that ivlosk is town at this point. I dont uderstand why you keep saying he is scum. I also dont get why making a list of observations is useful at this point when over half of the people havent posted yet. When you made this post, what made you think it was apparent that iV was town? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 15:15 LoneMeow wrote: Why? Make a case if you have a good read. I'm tempted to disagree though. Yes, iVLosK! is somewhat abrasive and irritating with his attitude, but that's not really alignment indicative. Tempted. What is your read on iV? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 13:55 iVLosK! wrote: If I could lynch 3 people in order right now: Gotard Umasi That guy whose name is like frefre or something. I dunno. I've read through the latest posts, and am now coming back to reply to stuff. I disagree on Umasi. He's looking so paranoid he almost has to be town. Also, he's not avoiding suspicions - he wants them on the table so he can deal with them and figure out what he's doing wrong. There is a player who hasn't looked paranoid at all, though. And that in a newb sets off a few alarms. I'd like to know if you think someone fits that description or if I'm making mountains from molehills. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I don't want to waste the rest of the game day. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 15:28 Onegu wrote: I think he has to be paranoid at this point more than one person has thought him scum. I am thinking gotard may be town, I am not convinced yet. Why does being paranoid point you toward town? Town is the uninformed majority, infiltrated by an informed and hostile minority. Even in seasoned players paranoia can rear its head. In people new to the game it's almost a definitive characteristic. When a newb town player comes under suspicion it definitely kicks up the paranoia level. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 15:37 Xzavier wrote: Okay, if gotard is town. then why isnt he doing anything to benefit the town? why doesnt he create content? He was jumped on from his first post and every new post just made matters worse. That's not an environment conducive to thoughtful content. I want to see what he has to say when he comes back to the thread. He obviously cared enough about the game to log in and survey the damage at 5-something am his time. That's not alignment indicative, but it is a level of engagement even if the content is sparse. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote: Ebwop Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. The person I am thinking about is Yavannah. Her posts did get better after I pushed her a little yesterday. As I was driving home last night and thinking about the game I was trying to figure out what it is about her play that still bothers me. And I realized it was the contrast with some of the other players who said they are new to the game. She seems so sure of her town reads. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote: I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing. She did say this is her first game. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:42 Onegu wrote: I dont have a problem with someone not being confident in thier reads, what I have a problem with is when someone makes a read then when they see something else they drop thier read and sheep the majority. Are you saying that I'm doing this? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 23:03 Onegu wrote: No I am not saying you are doing this you have kept to your read and not just jump on gotard. If you jump ship without good reason and just say xzav is doing so Ill drop it. I am way more likely to vote firere today than Gotard. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 23:04 Spicydinosaur wrote: @fferyllt since you are around... who are your scum reads? Yavannah and Firere. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 23:12 Onegu wrote: that is what I am saying I feel town because you arent just sheeping. IMO there is a place in mafia for sheeping, and I occasionally find myself in that place. Day 1 of a game with a bunch of players I don't know is not the place. When I'm uncertain about my scum reads and have a strong town read on someone whose scumdar I trust, I weigh their reads heavily in deciding my vote. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Not really. I'm null/leaning a little town on Skanjab1 mostly because his play style is not unusual where I learned mafia. The emphasis on casebuilding at TL is more alien to me than moving votes around on the basis of what's happening in the thread. Although he's not stating reasons why his vote changes, there's a trajectory - someone posts something hinky and his next post is a vote on that person. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
The best I've gotten from my arguments about Yavannah is "maybe d2", so I'm going to be very disappointed, SpicyDinosaur, if you don't help pursue that without some damn good reasons why. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 00:57 Skanjab1s wrote: *Sigh* Guys, throwing votes on people is not scummy in the slightest, it adds pressure to them and helps me to get better reads on them. fferyllt knows where its at. fferyllt, why Firere over Gotard? Gotard reeks of painfully awkward newbtown. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 01:03 Spicydinosaur wrote: Skanjab is not going to be lynched today barring some huge slip on his part. Right now the votes are between you and Firere345. If you don't want to get lynch you should make a miraculous case and get your vote on Firere345. Yabbut that was a seriously townish looking vote. He's not working the self-preservation angle at all. It looked a little opportunistic in that the conversation had just turned to Skanjab's voting style, but that's a line of thought that players not in his scumpile are discussing unless I'm misremembering that wall of reads. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 01:07 Spicydinosaur wrote: Well my reasons for suspecting her are a little different then yours were. And like I said I am honestly not sure what to make of her at this point. When her final vote comes in and after the night actions, hopefully I'll have a better idea. Her final vote and the night results would be damn good reasons why. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote: I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing. Well see, that's the thing. She IS sheeping. Her town reads were similar to the reads that others had already posted or strongly implied. If town sentiment changes about some of those players it will be easy to backtrack and go along with it Putting out a strong read early, especially when it goes against the sentiment in the game, is something that the average scum player doesn't want to do. And it's absolutely what town players want to do because they are looking for scum, not for the feel of the room. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 02:00 iVLosK! wrote: Asking good questions, responded well to Umasi saying she was "suspiciously nice". Exploring good avenues that I hadn't even thought of with questioning and logical thought. Calls her pressure vote a pressure vote. A vote stops being pressure the moment you call it that. Noobie mistake, I'd say. Has dropped off of the map recently. Likely town. Maybe. I thought the questions lacked followt hrough, but that could be newb too. I pointed out the futility of indicating votes are for pressure purposes when SpicyDinosaur (I think that's who...not going to check) posted something similar about pressuring lurkers quite early in the game, though. Maybe that comment would stand out as something not to do to newb scum more than to newb town. Noted, and thanks. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 02:05 Xzavier wrote: im okay with lynching either one of them today. Firere or gotard. i have work from 2-8 today (i leave 30 min from now) so im not gonna b able to make lengthy posts, i can explain the reasoning for my vote (if i do switch it) but right now if gotard isnt mafia, he needs to grow a pair. He made his first constructive post, then didnt even vote for the most scummy person on his list? or one of the current possible bandwagons. Thats weird to me. but since he has appeared like hes slowly but surely posting more (however scumlike it is) it means we can kill him later if need be on even stronger evidence. yavannah is newbie as fuck. probably harmless town. wouldnt hurt for her to post more. iV is troll-town(probably VT) spicey dinosoar is somebody i was suspicious of for a good amount, but idk. not much he has said makes me think scum. and what he says makes logical sense, thats more than i can say about half of this thread T.T skanjab isnt on any of my lists, he puts thought into his actions, and i think there are much better people to lynch right now. and i havnt actually looked at his filter yet. The bolded was a dumb thing to post. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 02:29 Xzavier wrote: i had to quote this to find where you bolded. and got it, dont post who your positive is town. check. this is one big learning experience. Remind me to revisit this in the postgame discussion if I don't bring it up. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 21:38 Spicydinosaur wrote: I just did a little theory to get the game going. Wasn't much discussion going on before I went to bed. And if you are going to vote me, at least get my theory right... I said pressure lurkers. Anyways, here are some thoughts. @Firere345 seems to be only sheeping. He agrees with Umasi's post about iVLosK! and then asks a pointless mod question about a jester. Reading the first page of the thread tells you what roles are possible in this game and jester is NOT on it. So why ask it? A true newbie to this game would probably read that first page up and down multiple times. So far he feels pretty scummy. @Skanjab1s You throw a vote on me for theory yet your only post is just to throw a vote with nothing else. Town read for now. @Umasi is my most worrisome read right now. He is generating some discussion but a lot of his posts are full of fluff. Taking a wait and see on him. @Yavanna strongest town read atm. Generates discussion and asks good questions. On June 07 2013 23:27 Spicydinosaur wrote: Just went through Yavanna's filter and it doesn't look pretty. At the start she's either posting spam or asking others questions. The questions are alright but she has no follow up with them... and that indicates someone posting to look active without really contributing... aka scummy. Later on it turns into full blown sheeping of Xzav. She really only has 1 good post about Umasi at the end. Not sure right now if this is indicative of a new player finding her stride or calculated scum. Going to take a wait and see on her for D2. Big change on Yavanna between these two posts without much additional input from Yavanna. Was it something I said? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 23:15 Onegu wrote: Ok 2 things the first he kept the iV thing going on alot lomger than it needed to be. Secomd and the thing that made me feel the most was he would make a statement and when the majority had different ideals he would conform to them. This is what feels like he is scum. scum are not one size fits all in terms of behaviors, but in general I've found that scum players are slow to change stance, and sometimes let town choose a direction before committing. Not a single town player - scum movement usually is trying to blend in when the town herd gets moving. To me, Umasi followed Xzac a little too readily to be scum. His hanging on to the iV scum read has that scum-reluctance to change stance feel, but ranting about it after other players moved on is not something I'd expect scum to do. Scum players tend to keep their emotional reactions kinda flat because they tend reread and rethink every word. These are generalizations. ymmv. void where prohibited | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Let's talk. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 09:35 Firere345 wrote: Hey ffery. What besides my missing a full 24 hours seems scummy to you? p much everything you posted. phoneposting. Will manage s real res ponse in 5 | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 09:35 Firere345 wrote: Hey ffery. What besides my missing a full 24 hours seems scummy to you? Do I know you? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 10:00 Firere345 wrote: Well ffery, you said you wanted to talk, but now have stalled me out until the deadline, which strikes me as strange, because if I remember correctly, you were one of those that wanted one last talk before you lynched me I don't remember saying that, though I did perk up interest when you showed up. Unfortunately, I couldn't stay at my computer. You didn't answer my question. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 10:23 Skanjab1s wrote: Thoughts on LoneMeow guys? I need to look over his posts and think about experience level. newb scum is a lot more likely to entangle themselves when a scum partner is going down. Though being a mafia PR made firere maybe look worth the risk. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
- mafia theory re MYLO/LYLO in his first game post. - pushing Umasi to build a case. This was the post where he said he was tempted to disagree about iV. That language seemed odd to me. Sort of hedgy given iV looked town as fuck with his button-pushing. - direct interaction with Firere. On June 06 2013 15:21 LoneMeow wrote: Firere345, has your opinion changed? Do you still lean scum on iVLosK!? This is pretty interesting: On June 07 2013 20:59 LoneMeow wrote: It's not really a strong scum read at all, but right now I'd want to lynch Firere345. Doesn't say much, sheeps the current "consensus". Promises to participate more but doesn't seem to be doing so. This situation with Gotard has me worried, I can understand why people would want to lynch him but I'm having hard time convincing myself scum would dare be so brash. And then his vote: On June 08 2013 07:10 LoneMeow wrote: Gotard's posts since the original incident make him look more scummy rather than less. And re-thinking what Firere345 actually wrote made me realize my read on him was very weak. So I think I'd rather lynch Gotard after all. ##Vote: Gotard He didn't switch his vote. He held onto it. Gotard looked like a slam dunk at one point. Firere only had one vote on him when I started arguing against a Gotard lynch. Mine was the second vote on Firere and then they started to pile up over the next couple pages IIRC. The Gotard wagon didn't start to soften after LoneMeow's vote, though, so I'm not sure. Would be a ballsy move trying to singlehandedly change the lynch direction at that particular point in time. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
didn't start to soften until after LoneMeow's vote. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 10:20 Skanjab1s wrote: LoneMeow looks really bad now To add to Stimaddict's case: Lightly FoS's Firere345, to try to distance himself, but suddenly, when there is a chance to save Fire, he strangely thinks that Gotard's recent posts were more scummy than townie (which is the opposite of what I thought) and declares his read on Fire "weak" (no reason was given for this change, and Firere hadn't said anything to make himself seem less suspicious): Basically, he does a complete 180 for little reason, when the chance that he could save Firere arose. Where was the sudden chance? What changed in the gamestate before that vote? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
LYLO = lynch or lose. This comes about when town outnumber scum by 1. so 2-1 or 3-2 probably in this game. If town doesn't lynch scum that day town automatically lose. If we have an SK then the calculations get more complicated. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 06 2013 14:58 Xzavier wrote: The reason he started shitflinging was so people could start forming reads on everybody. In town vs town arguements you can form reads based on how people react to them. doesnt matter if the arguments are t v t or t v s or s v s. the reactions will still reflect motivation. can't believe I'm rereading this on my phone. 2nd power outage of the day. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 14:28 Firere345 wrote: sorry for it being over 24 hours since my last post. I went to sleep right after my last post and have spent all my free time catching up today(which wasn't much). Fortunately, tonight was my last night of having prior commitments, so I will be much more active. To meow, who asked my opinion of Vlosk a few pages back, he's obv not my top scum read atm, but engaging shitfests isn't the towniest thing to do. As for my current reads, though, Xzav is the only one who would make me really surprize dto flip scum. Umasi and Gotard don't have any defense against their accusations, so I find it hard to not be biased by thecurrent town consensus. Gut says both bad, Umasi town, Gotard maf, if only for lynching the one guy who we all should agree is mister town. As for the jester question, the forum I used to play on was very inconsistent. The OP would only state basic roles, yet there would end up being bus drivers or phychics as flips, so I just wanted to make sure that Jest was not a role and that we wouldn't give up a day 1 loss to a jester. some firere reads. when I see three reads by confirmed scum my gut wants to believe 1 is scum. don't like choosing from this list so I may tell my gut to stfu. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 08 2013 19:25 Skanjab1s wrote: I mean that the votes were very close, so he only needed 1 person to change vote to lynch Gotard. That is the chance. Firere was the third vote on Gotard (excluding the early votes that were taken off). It was about 10 hours after that when LoneMeow voted Gotard. But, it was also his first post since before Firere put down his vote, so although there's a pretty big chunk of time involved, he may not have seen the potential opportunity earlier. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I decided to do a braindump right at night action deadline because I'm a little concerned about shaking up any well thought out town night action decisions, or giving scum additional info to consider in whatever nefarious stuff they're up to. -------------------------- These are the players that I have concerns and questions about, listed more or less from most to least concerning. LoneMeow – hasn’t really addressed the concerns that have been raised about him. Apparently ignored the numerous arguments that Gotard made little sense as scum – leaning strongly scum (12 posts) A ton of other people have built nice cases about why LoneMeow is scum. I agree, and I'm not going to write a reiteration of all that. Onegu – was leaning quite town, but his first post of the night phase was pretty defensive and that sounded a bit of an alarm. On June 08 2013 17:27 Onegu wrote: I put my vote on someone I thought was scum, why is that a bad thing. I am not the only one either. I wanted to check back in before the deadline but I slept. I dont think me voteing for someone who may or maynot be lynched is such a bad thing, I didnt have strong feelings on either of the two main canidates for myself to justify puting a vote on them. ^^ this is nothing like what I would have written in a similar circumstance, which is not alignment indicative, but the defensive "why is that a bad thing", "I am not the onlhy one" "I don't think blah blah is such a bad things" etc just really seems defensive, and it stands out against his other posts. Yavanna – leaning scum for reasons I’ve already mentioned, and I agree with SpicyDinosaur’s observations as well. It’s somewhat softened by iV’s counter argument. Disappeared, no vote down. to be replaced? Umasi – I'm retracting my very slight lean-town. It could be a personality thing – continuing to defend positions that he’s apparently abandoned, but he’s done that on first iV and now Gotard. SpicyDinosaur’s night-talk case is relevant. I’m not going to rewrite it. StimAddict – Super enthusiastic. Tunneling LoneMeow. Focused on potential modkills. Cheerleading? There was a ton of cheerleading from nearly everyone after the card flip, so I’m mostly discounting it as a mafia culture thing for the experienced players and an enthusiasm thing for the new players. StimAddict’s level of enthusiasm stood out a little, though, as did his huge level of concern about lurker/non-voter modkills. IOw his vote was parked someplace useless, which I don’t mind too much given when he caught up and his bigger concern than which of the 2 main bandwagons was the lynchee was to plead with apparently non-present players to vote before deadline. His after nightfall posts have been better, and I especially liked his post with a suggestion for a vig if we have one. I have some minor issues with a few other players. Xzav could be a lot more experienced than he appears. I’ve played forum mafia with a few IRL mafia players who made awesome transitions, and one of them is a scary scum player. He was pretty braggadocio and know-it-all in his early games. xZav grabbed onto me as a font of wisdom about some things, but appeared to discount my concerns that the Gotard lynch was a bad idea. I’m also a little concerned that he (and a couple others) showed no paranoia to speak of about me. I even posted an intentional clanger or two and got hardly a murmur from anyone. That lack raised my neck hairs a tad. iV’s relative slowness to join the Firere bandwagon also bothers me a little now that we’ve seen the flip. But, people excel at different parts of the game, so it’s not something I’d pursue without more reasons further along in the game. That's really the only thing he's done that I could pick a nit with, so I should probably stfu. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I agree that most of the suspicion should go to LoneMeow next. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 09 2013 09:16 Spicydinosaur wrote: Not sure why you are bringing this up. If people think you are town then why try to intentionally mess with that perception? It serves no town purpose whatsoever. We are in the scum hunting business so no need to hound on you if people believe you are town. Consider it a reaction test. The level of town-read I've gotten so early in this game is unusual. I often get to the point of near-universal town read eventually, but I have to work at it, especially with players who don't know my style of play. In a newbie game, it seems particularly odd, though I realize that a lot of the newbies in this game are not new to mafia at all. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On the bright side, at least one of us has a pretty good chance of being around for day 2. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 09 2013 10:52 Spicydinosaur wrote: This is what I'm most unsure of. On one hand most mafia votes are spread out, but I wonder in this case since one of their own was on the chopping block that they put all their effort into saving him. My gut is telling me that Lone was the last minute switch to try and save firere. We did have 2 non votes and it is possible that one of them could have been mafia (looking at Yavanna), but theres no point in speculating too much on that since we'll know more on D2. That vote was damn close. To have been the vote that moved Gotard into the lead would have been incredibly visible. I think they hoped another townie would make the change. If Firere actually knows me well enough to call me ffery then the scum team likely had at least one competent and experienced player on board day 1. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 09 2013 13:48 Xzavier wrote: Hm. Is it worth asking whoever he talked to, to come foward? he might have accidentally mason'd a scum and scum just kills him cuz logic. Like is that a possible situation? Of course it is. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 09 2013 13:57 StiMaDDict wrote: Not sure what this means.. it was right after the night post.. fferyllt, were you masoned? I took that as an answer to my question about if we would be able to continue posting at night. He didn't mason me. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Skanjab1 was a strange choice for NK. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 09 2013 23:49 Onegu wrote: I am also ok lynching yavanna if she doesnt comeback and isnt modkilled. What are your thoughts about LoneMeow? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 09 2013 13:05 Xzavier wrote: well shit. we lynch mafia day1, they kill blue night1? random question? does this mean that there is no SK? since only 1 person died? why skanjab1? He wasnt outspoken or a main discussion generator. Time to go read his filter What did you learn from his filter? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Skanjab1s (0): iVLosK! (0): Spicydinosaur (0): Firere345 (5): Spicydinosaur, Gotard (4): StimmAddict (0): Umasi (1): Onegu As we get more flips we should revisit the bandwagons and their composition. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 10 2013 00:15 StiMaDDict wrote: I didn't find anything particularly out of place from Skanjab1 filter.. anyway, time to die mafia motherfucker.. ##Vote: LoneMeow What would you expect to find out of place in a townie's filter? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:07 LoneMeow wrote: Perhaps the reason he was killed was exactly because there wasn't anything special in his posting history? This posits a subtle scum team. Have you looked at his filter? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:30 LoneMeow wrote: Yes. The only persons he pushes are Gotard and myself. His interaction with iVLosk! says he's probably at least somewhat experienced player on some other site, so that might also give some insight into the kill. What sort of thing would you look for in a post to indicate a player might be PR? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I don't think it's safe for me to assume that this scum team thinks like I think when I'm scum. The kill choice, though, does imply some stuff about the scum team. I can't see iV killing Skanjab and then claiming to be masoned. And he was too likely to be Skanjab's masoining choice to kill him and say nothing. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Do you think it's a good idea to make a PR-hunting 101 post today? My main reason for mentioning this is that it potentially implies someone(s) with decent experience on the scum team. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:17 Onegu wrote: Ebwop ffer you were on her heavy yesterday just wondering if anything has changed? Nothing has significantly changed wrt to Yavanna except that she is not here to answer questions, participate and otherwise give me info that will refine/change my read. Her last post gave no indication she was about to flake. I do like that she directly interacted with me about another player in that post. I'm pretty much on hold until she's replaced or returns or is modkilled. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 10 2013 05:57 Spicydinosaur wrote: Hypothetically its an easy way to kill a townie. Say LoneMeow was shot last night and flipped town. There would be some back lash against the one who said to pull the trigger but the defense would be "he looked so scummy everyone was on him." Then the vig will probably reveal himself to confirm himself as town. You have a little chaos and some suspicion on you but u gain a decent amount. I dont think this was scum motivated though. There are a few other things that worry me a little about StimAddict. I touched on them in my wall. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
He's not at the top of my scumpile by any means. The stuff that bothers me about him have more to do with his lack of effect on the outcome of day 1. Pleading with invisible and probably non-present lurkers. Sidelined vote in bandwagon race where nearly all players took a stand one way or another about the 2 main bandwagons. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 09 2013 07:00 Spicydinosaur wrote: Well scum have to interact with each other and that sometimes includes throwing suspicion around just to mess with you. Lone says he has a scum read on firere but doesnt vote him. If Lone actually put his vote on firere then we would be having a different conversation as voting is a stronger indication of what you are believing than just saying someone is scum. You also point out correctly that a bussing hadn't started yet on firere, so it would be safe for Lone to say he was suspicious of firere without any really worries that he would be lynched. He could then go back later and say "hey look I was right." He only voted Gotard way later when firere had a ton of votes on him. The town cred build up was for later, not immediate cash-in. Personally I'm still not sure on Lone but then being scum buddies makes sense with what i just written. A bussing hadn't started yet on Firere? When do you think he was bussed? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Umasi is troubling but his high visibility makes it difficult for me to accept that he's scum. I'd probably compromise on Yavanna, but right now I want to lynch LoneMeow. Xzav's posture has changed significantly, but he's still leaning town IMO. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Do you think the cases posted about you are bad? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 10 2013 23:46 LoneMeow wrote: I posted a pretty large rebuttal to StiMaDDict's case. I especially dislike how he didn't bother to update the Firere345/Gotard part of it, even though none of that is anything like valid after Firere345 flipped red. I do admit that I was afk a lot during day 1 and that made the few posts I did manage to write look somewhat worse than they could have been, so the case isn't completely without merit. I like that your activity has increased, but I'd kind of expect that no matter what your alignment since you've been on the table as a possible lynch. Last night, reading your convo with Onegu I read a buddying-up vibe to your posts. I'll have to fliter-dive again to confirm this, but my sense is that you have not initiated many interactions other than with Onegu. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:08 LoneMeow wrote: He was about the only one around, so I could hardly initiate interactions with anyone else :/ He's also on my list of suspicious people, though not at the top at the moment. I really didn't like his vote on day 1 being outside the wagons, that's somewhat counterproductive for town. I wasn't talking about just last night. I think you had something like 12 posts before day 1 nightfall. In the early part of day 1 you did ask some questions of other players. As the day grew more heated and the 2 main bandwagons began to shape up, not so much. Your posts became more reactive and observational. caveat - 12 posts, most of which were made in the first few hours of day 1 are not much to base a trajectory on. And there was literally no trajectory leading to your vote post. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 06:11 iVLosK! wrote: lol@ Umasi circling the wagons. Why ask town to lynch you? If you're town you should want their votes on scum, not wasted on you.  I laugh because you're doing a damn good impersonation of my scum-play with all this "Im not even going to try to respond because YES, I AM SCUMMY. But when I flip town..." I think I'd like to kill you today, Umasi. ##Unvote ##Vote: Umasi If I were a gambling man, (and I am) I'd put 20 bucks on Lone flipping town. Just a gut feel. I feel like scum might be perfectly happy with how today is going. ##Unvote | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 06:38 iVLosK! wrote: I've liked his content better than yours since the flip. Like I said, gut feel. I haven't read either of your filters since D1. ^^ Is this to Umasi? On June 11 2013 06:45 Umasi wrote: You may want to reevaluate your gut feel. Believe it or not, it might be as far off as it could possibly be. Fferyllt, why do you feel that they're happy with the progress of the day? What tips you off? The other main bandwagon has been very slow to grow and the thread is seeing a low level of activity compared to day 1. Not a lot of chaff in the water. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 06:45 Umasi wrote: You may want to reevaluate your gut feel. Believe it or not, it might be as far off as it could possibly be. Fferyllt, why do you feel that they're happy with the progress of the day? What tips you off? The other main bandwagon has been very slow to grow and the thread is seeing a low level of activity compared to day 1. Not a lot of chaff in the water.[/QUOTE] The other side of this coin, though, is that if Lonemeow is scum, the final scum may either be distancing as much as possible, or may be so well hidden among the more town-looking players that sticking with the herd is the best bet for long term survival. I'm getting kinda sick of filter-diving btw. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 07:34 Umasi wrote: Fferyllt, do you think scum bussed day one? I am going to ask everyone this, just so you guys know. Feel free to answer. There's nothing against answering this question, and it won't incriminate you, and it's not like it'll misdirect attention from me or anything so feel free to just TALK. I don't know. In a true newbie game I would say not likely. This is not a "true" newbie game. There is a wide variety of background and experience level in this game, and I'm not sure I have everyone's level of experience pegged. I'd expect no more than one additional scum on the Firere wagon, though. I'll be shocked if all three scum were on the same day 1 bandwagon tbh. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
##Vote Lonemeow | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
What are your thoughts, iV? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
What are your thoughts about an SK. you're positing Skanjab was SK killed, which might actually make some sort of sense. SKs usually go after players they don't think scum will target. Though SKs also usually try to look vig-like on night 1 in my experience and Skanjab does not at all look like someone a vig would target IMO. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 11:22 iVLosK! wrote: SKs in my neck of the woods always shoot for scum. That's my kind of SK. I've run into some that go for what they think will be plausible mis-vig's. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Let's think about both a final scum and an SK. I said when I unvoted that I thought scum were perfectly happy with today' lynch. That would go for an SK, too. Where are the not-town in those bandwagons do you think? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
LoneMeow (1): Skanjab1s (0): iVLosK! (0): Spicydinosaur (0): Firere345 (5): Spicydinosaur, Gotard (4): StimmAddict (0): Umasi (1): Onegu Day 2 LoneMeow (6): fferyllt, StiMaDDict, Gotard, Umasi, Xzavier, SpicyDinosaur Umasi (3): Onegu, LoneMeow, iVLosK! | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Questions Umasi for calling iV emotional. Sort of a pot/kettle call out. On June 06 2013 15:22 Yavanna wrote: I need a little clarification on the bolded point Umasi. You are calling iV's play emotional, yet he seems to be keeping a pretty level head in this shit storm that's started up. The only emotional vibes I'm getting are from you. Are you meaning to be contradicting? Then compliments him for "manning up" On June 06 2013 15:58 Yavanna wrote: + Show Spoiler + That's just me being a whiny emotional bitch. I dig this a lot. Way to man up. I respect that. I can understand why he was egging you on though. It did help to start some discussion. Sorry you had to be "that guy". lol. Are you at a null read on iV? I'm really feeling him as uber town, but its so early in the game and so many people haven't posted shit its hard to have a conclusive read on anyone. Or maybe that's just my inexperience talking. On June 06 2013 16:07 Yavanna wrote: Ok, well town's opinion aside, go with your gut here. Besides his overall abrasive attitude and the fact that he basically poked you with a stick, what is it that gives you a scum vibe from him? I feel like if he were scum he wouldn't be so in your face with it. I could be terribly wrong though. And this, building on some comments I made about Umasi. On June 07 2013 05:39 Yavanna wrote: Fferllyt I read what you wrote on Umasi. There’s a few things I’d add after taking a closer look at his filter The early vote stuck in my mind too. It looked really self-conscious. If you are voting to raise discussion, why does it get removed as soon as someone mentions it? It looks like he had no goal at all with the early vote, as pretty much no positive discussion has been generated by it. The guides said look for both town and scum motivation behind postings, and I am having trouble seeing the town motivation behind a 5 second vote. The rest of his votes too seem like he is playing to some agenda, not earnestly trying to lynch scummy people. This quote too raised my eyebrows: Pointing out the possibility of being blue doesn’t sit right with me. We are not blue-hunting. I’m worried that it’s on his mind and so easily popped out because he actually IS blue-hunting in the scum QT. What does everyone make of this? There’s also a lot to be said for the benefit of the scum team in regards to getting into a shitfest. From the games I’ve read, it causes town to lose focus, and can be a tactic to misdirect town. It makes me nervous that he was so willing to dive in. He has since addressed it, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it cluttered the thread up at the time of the argument. Combined with the stuff you spoke about fferyl, and the stuff I pointed out, I’m very suspicious of Umasi. If the day ended now, I’d be down with lynching him or Firere. I want to hear what both of them have to say to the accusations against them though, specifically the blue thing (Umasi) She's down with lynching Umasi or Firere. Umasi is almost certainly town. I can't see newb scum trying to set up a second bus with Firere already under fire. We had two town-wagons today. :/ | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 11:58 Xzavier wrote: Why does the OP say Yavanna was Vanilla Townie? probably a mistake. The name is in red, which denotes mafia. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860945 The cardflip post says Mafia Godfather. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 10:10 Spicydinosaur wrote: If we have investigative roles I think Umasi is the perfect target since he is now highest on people's list. If we can clear him/ condemn him at night, itll free up the day to look at another. I would say forget Umasi, for investigation given Yavanna's interactions with/about him that I posted earlier. What do you think, Spicydinosaur? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 12:12 Spicydinosaur wrote: I tend to agree given the quote you brought up though I'm hesitant to completely give him a pass since Yavanna never did actually put a vote down. Who do you think invests should focus on them? I think her posts, which all put him in a bad light even before that final post where she built on my comments, make him a lower priority than some others. Do you think her posts sucking up to Xzav semi-clear him as well? She made one comment to Onagu, and that's the level of interaction that I tend to find associative, but aside from that one hellaciously defensive post he made, he hasn't pinged much. I should look over Onagu's day 2 posts again. I don't think she would have interacted with me at all if I hadn't written a wall to/about her. There was a comment she made about iV as well. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Can you either go over your reasons for suspecting Onagu or post a link or quote to something you've already written? The # link at the top right corner of posts is a link to that specific post. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 12:54 Onegu wrote: Except many people have put scum reads on you. Also anyone getting rolechecked and has a town alignment is confirmed town at this point because the godfather is dead. Who are your priorities? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 14:28 Firere345 wrote: sorry for it being over 24 hours since my last post. I went to sleep right after my last post and have spent all my free time catching up today(which wasn't much). Fortunately, tonight was my last night of having prior commitments, so I will be much more active. To meow, who asked my opinion of Vlosk a few pages back, he's obv not my top scum read atm, but engaging shitfests isn't the towniest thing to do. As for my current reads, though, Xzav is the only one who would make me really surprize dto flip scum. Umasi and Gotard don't have any defense against their accusations, so I find it hard to not be biased by thecurrent town consensus. Gut says both bad, Umasi town, Gotard maf, if only for lynching the one guy who we all should agree is mister town. As for the jester question, the forum I used to play on was very inconsistent. The OP would only state basic roles, yet there would end up being bus drivers or phychics as flips, so I just wanted to make sure that Jest was not a role and that we wouldn't give up a day 1 loss to a jester. Ok, so the common threads among Yavanna's posts and Firere's posts - iV - both are more or less neutral - Umasi - Ferere says "town bad" and Yavanna exchanges a few posts and then agrees/builds on my observations. I'm not sure there's something meaningful in this. Just poking around in the data. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
That reminds me. Onegu jumped on one of my objectively scummy looking posts on day 1, but didn't really follow-through and keep pushing. Let me find the posts related to that. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 07 2013 16:38 Onegu wrote: I think you are right with the last part say who are what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. Lonemeow picked up on it. Onegu agreed. Followed with this: On June 07 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote: Ebwop Say who or what you are thinking dont just fish for ideas. I give my explanation, and he drops the scum-tell aspect and reacts to my concerns about Yavanna On June 07 2013 22:16 Onegu wrote: I dont really have that feeling at this point. Has she said this is her first game? So far people have had some very strong reads and I dont think that makes you scummy. Why would scum want to say strong reads at this point when just sheeping is a better way of hideing. In the next exchange, I opened the door and invited him to go after me. He didn't. On June 07 2013 23:03 Onegu wrote: No I am not saying you are doing this you have kept to your read and not just jump on gotard. If you jump ship without good reason and just say xzav is doing so Ill drop it. He later said he was leaning town on me because I voted Firere rather than sheeping (I think he meant that Gotard looked like a more likely lynch based on thread sentiment at the time). This isn't really conclusive. I think my body of work at that point was pretty townish, and one post setting off an alarm probably didn't weigh nearly as much. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I was looking for independent confirmation. I can see why it looked like fishing, but one of the ways I town-hunt is by testing to see if other players see what I see and interpret it the way I interpret it. I wasn't getting enough of that kind of confirmation by passively waiting for it to happen. The flip side, is that if someone's reply looks really off-the-wall to me, then either I missed something (which is quite possible) or what they are seeing in-thread is quite different, and that could be because their motivations are quite different. Win condition plus personal goals drives motivation. Motivation plus role drives in-thread behavior. Scumhunting and townhunting basically reverse engineer that progression. For me, anyway. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I think it's time for town to do a mass claim. If we do it, I'm going last. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 12 2013 09:54 Spicydinosaur wrote: True, veteran took the hit, medic healed. Do you want to reveal those roles now though? I want to see first if an invest role found anything. I dunno. My gut says mass claim, but that's because I want to get to the bottom of this missing kill and see if we can ferret out scum with it. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
It could be. Maybe just leave it to the PRs who think they could have answers to the missing kill to volunteer the info. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 12 2013 10:36 Umasi wrote: (by reading I mean the conversations after the kill) saying "there are other possibilities" is technically true, but why even bother? that's all. I have no idea how you got SK out of that convo. I was referring to the ways that a kill could go missing. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Because you apparently haven't understood a damn thing about day 3. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 12 2013 11:22 iVLosK! wrote: Which mod sent you yours? Mine is from OO and it just says "You were roleblocked." End of message. This could be an explanation for the difference in messages. What a mess. ##Unvote | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
You were blocked and protected evidently. You say your message was different but jesus christ it would be dumb to lie about something like that. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 12 2013 11:26 iVLosK! wrote: Mine is just one message. They probably figured I didn't need the "In case you didn't know...". But it was a role block, not a jail keep message? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
You could be the perp, not the intended victim. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I'm undecided about him and Xzav. I think Umasi is town. I don't think scum would have come into the thread totally misunderstanding the conversation and ranting stfu about SKs. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 12 2013 12:07 fferyllt wrote: I noticed. I'm undecided about him and Xzav. I think Umasi is town. I don't think scum would have come into the thread totally misunderstanding the conversation and ranting stfu about SKs. Agree? Disagree? Don't care? I'd like to see some PoE up in this thread. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 12 2013 12:30 Umasi wrote: PoE? Process of Elimination | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 12 2013 12:31 Onegu wrote: After breakfast I will make a post on him, Im not 100% like I was yesterday but I still feel scum. So you think Scum-Umasi's grand plan would be to jump into the thread all ranty and yelling at people for bringing up the possibility of an SK? When there was no kill at all? 1. No kill 2. Rant "stfu about SK" 3. ??? 4. Profit! | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 12 2013 11:41 Spicydinosaur wrote: Alright looking at Stim.... he tunnels lone for 2 days straight while not looking at anyone else. It looks bad... but is that really something a last scum would do? He would know that when lone flipped he would be next day target. Anyone else feeling this way? Speaking of tunneling, Onegu has had his vote on Umasi every game day. He's posted a lot more content, but has had no effect on the lynches. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 11 2013 11:40 fferyllt wrote: Day 1 LoneMeow (1): Skanjab1s (0): iVLosK! (0): Spicydinosaur (0): Firere345 (5): Spicydinosaur, Gotard (4): StimmAddict (0): Umasi (1): Onegu Day 2 LoneMeow (6): fferyllt, StiMaDDict, Gotard, Umasi, Xzavier, SpicyDinosaur Umasi (3): Onegu, LoneMeow, iVLosK! Day 1, 2 votes by player (in no particular order) Spicydinosaur - Firere345, Lonemeow Gotard - Firere345, Lonemeow Xzavier - Gotard, Lonemeow iVosK! - Firere345, StimmAddict Onegu - Umasi, Umasi Umasi - Gotard, Lonemeow StimmAddict - Lonemeow, Lonemeow fferyllt - Firere345, Lonemeow | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Spicydinosaur - Firere345, Lonemeow Gotard - Firere345, Lonemeow Xzavier - Gotard, Lonemeow iVosK! - Firere345, StimmAddict Onegu - Umasi, Umasi Umasi - Gotard, Lonemeow StimmAddict - Lonemeow, Lonemeow fferyllt - Firere345, Lonemeow | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I'm about to pick a lurksack to death-tunnel. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868420 right now, there's exactly 1 day left. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 13 2013 10:04 Xzavier wrote: So right not were thinking Umasi, and i think thats the smart lynch for today. It makes the town far more effective. and he has taken a massive shift in gameplay, going form logical and reasonable to panicking. Also depending on the flips, we should mass claim day3. just a thought, you can tell me its bad and explain why its bad, but i think we can end the game on the day3 lynch. (if it doesnt end today) thoughts? TODAY IS DAY 3 | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I have literally done this minutes before the town pile-on started and looked like I was in front and leading the way. More than once. If I were scum, I most likelly would have been on the Firere wagon. I would have gotten on it a little bit later than when I did, but early enough not to look like I"d given up on the wagon fading away. This stuff about nobody bussing Firere is not surefire. Not at all | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Extremely mixed. I have been exploring a lot of paranoid possibilities today, and I can see a paranoid-as-fuck case for iV being scum. It's not the only paranoid case I'm mulling over. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Onegu | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 13 2013 11:52 Xzavier wrote: That would explain his misquoting me in attempt to fuel a bandwagon? (or abusing open thought) No, I was mulling over the case much earlier. Night 2 and early Day 3. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 13 2013 12:14 Onegu wrote: Am I alone here? The reason this looks so bad to me is the only way I can see scum winning is killing the jailer. We have 7 players left. Most likely 6 town and 1 scum. Possibly 6 town and an SK but I doubt it. Scum win if there are two more mislynches provided there are no more no-kill nights. With another no kill, then it will take 3 mislynches. This is why I want to PoE some of the nulls and eliminate them from the lynch pool. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
The Yavanna interactions are why I don't want to lynch Xzav. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 13 2013 12:40 fferyllt wrote: Yes she is. The Yavanna interactions are why I don't want to lynch Xzav. Did I not count myself? Then it's 3-1 and MYLO on day 5 if there is another missed NK. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 13 2013 12:42 Umasi wrote: Ffer, how do you get xzav being anything but null out of the yavanna interactions? The yavanna interactions eliminate him as a teammate in my mind. An experienced scum player with nerves of steel and ice in their veins will chat up their scumbuddies in a game thread but it goes against scum instinct to separate, distance, ignore and null-read each other. It boggles my mind that Yavanna would pull that off in her first ever mafia game or that Xzav would react without a ton of caution if he were her partner Look at the Yavanna/Firere interactions to get a sense of how inexperienced scum behave with each other in the game thread. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 13 2013 13:11 Umasi wrote: Xzavier, what is off about my memory of day one? Two things ffer: One: WHY WOULD XZAV NOT FIND HER SUSPICIOUS AND CALL HER ON IT. I found her suspicious and I'm not even xzav. t.t The way xzav has been playing would lead me to believe he would call someone on that kind of thing, that's just how I feel he has been this game. I don't know his meta, he doesn't have a meta. But, with my perception of him, he would call her on it if he were town. Two: Firere/Yav hardly have interactions, I think it's entirely possible Yav was just being an idiot and xzav was like t.t go away, compared to calling her on it. I admittedly don't know why he wouldn't correct her in the scum qt, but all of this talking, if memory serves, was kinda rapid. It would be awkward to switch between the scum thread and this thread, which may go quite a way. The bolded is exactly right. The confirmed scum hardly interacted. And Yavanna even said she was willing to lynch Firere. THAT is how newb scum act. Xzav was reveling in being townread and viewed as a town leader and not just by Yavanna. You were openly willing to sheep his vote. Sheeping his vote wasn't scummy, but it was kinda ill advised given that ALL of the more experienced players were on a different wagon. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 13 2013 13:28 Umasi wrote: hey, xzav, I read your quote I did it you were suspicious of her. Why didn't you question her about it DIRECTLY WITHIN THE INTERACTIONS. Have you played a perfect game? No. Nobody has played a perfect game. Some things are mistakes. Some things are oversights. Some things are objectively scummy. And some things are not. A player builds up a body of work in a game. Some of the stuff they do will look suspicious and some of the stuff won't look suspicious. I look at the body of work a player produces, and whether they appear to be motivated by a town win condition. I actually played a game where the host pulled a trick on town. We lynched the last scum and he gave the cardflip as town. He set up an endgame where three town players were looking for the final scum among them. They went through the game thread with a fine tooth comb and were able to build semi-solid cases on each other. And they finally decided to lynch the player known to have the strongest scum game because they figured that he was the only one who could have played so pro-town all game long and be scum. I guess what I am saying is look around, think about all the players. And decide what looks most scum-motivated. And also realize you won't ever convince a town player that they are scum with a 1 on 1 argument with them. And if the player is scum, you won't ever convince them to admit it in a 1 on 1 argument with them. Xzav isn't the person you need to convince. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 13 2013 13:47 Umasi wrote: Okay, thank you Ffer, for doing more to absolve xzav than he did. Even overlooking the mass claim question and buddy question, which we can write off as mistakes/oversights Why would scum bus day one instead of saving a scummate. Think about it like this: If xzav is town, they could easily have hid behind his case or hidden behind my case, because I'm super friggen scummy and then gotten a mislynch out of it, unless gotard is scum, which I consider unlikely. If scum thought Firere was going down, they would want to be on that wagon for the town cred. As scum, once you are on the leading bandwagon on your scumbuddy, it's really difficult to talk yourself into leaving the wagon because if it goes through and you jumped off then you're worried that town will want to lynch you next. So you sit on the wagon and wonder what to do, and wait...and wait...and wait to see if someone else will accidentally say something scummy and cause some town votes to peel off. That would be ideal, because 1) you're not on the wagon that lynched town and 2) when that player eventually flips you'll look great because you were on them early. With town it's totally different. Town is not worrying about how they'll look if they move their vote. They're trying to find and lynch scum. Town players naturally move their vote around more than scum players do. Good scum players are able to duplicate a natural-looking fluid vote-change. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
And I don't think scum Xzav would have changed his vote and then changed it again five minutes later. All it did was call attention to him. He could have stayed on Gotard and been much less visible. I think we are looking for scum in the minor wagons and on the Firere wagon. Not on the Gotard wagon. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
One vote is not a big deal. To me the bigger issue is going through the process of elimination and removing players from the lynch pool based on good reasoning. Because, the bigger the lynch pool, the more likely the final scum will win. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I'm not going to worry about them for now. If there's nothing from them overnight then it's time to think about them. The last scum is not going to go without voting today, I'm pretty sure. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
- argued against the yavanna case - hopped the Firere bandwagon as it started to gain steam and look inevitable. Had a list of 3 for the day 1 lynch - Skanjab died after masoning him night 1 - Stayed off the Lonemeow wagon. Voted Xzav, then Umasi - JK means he may have been the protected victim, may also mean he was the blocked killer - Has floated a few names on day 3 and apparently has no plans to POE his list of 4 before wagonning. - Is not leading, despite being perceived as town by p much all. - warmed up to yavanna as potential scum only after day 1, when she was a modkill possibility. - minimized possibility that kill went missing because he was blocked.* Case against iV being scum - Day 1 gambit got the game rolling in a good direction - Good protown general advice on stuff not to do in mafia. - Skanjab read him as town, masoned him, self-proclaimed track record of reading him correctly** * could be a style thing. If I were JK'd I'd make sure that possibility was kept in mind. ** strongest reason to think he's town IMO. I'm still working on my Onego case. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
- 3 days of tunneling Umasi - no effect on the day 1, 2 lynches due to voting Umasi - Highly defensive post after day 1 flip On June 08 2013 17:27 Onegu wrote: I put my vote on someone I thought was scum, why is that a bad thing. I am not the only one either. I wanted to check back in before the deadline but I slept. I dont think me voteing for someone who may or maynot be lynched is such a bad thing, I didnt have strong feelings on either of the two main canidates for myself to justify puting a vote on them. I wanted to give myself a break from the thread before writing this up. I've reread his iso again, and besides disagreeing with him on a lot of stuff, I'm really not finding much to call scummy in his posts, except possibly just how consistent he is. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 13 2013 22:26 iVLosK! wrote: My own experience. Unless things are run drastically different here on TL, KP is not roleblockable unless explicitly stated in the rules. Reading the role descriptions on page 1 I'm not seeing how you figure this. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 14 2013 03:18 Umasi wrote: ebwop: Rather, why do you think that scum target loud town voices, regardless of their reads? That's downright false, they DON'T target the loud voices because the voice is more influential, and scarier. Scum, from what I understand, try to stay out of the thick of things, and although this might not apply in all cases, everyone's said this is how it works in newbie games. He's talking about who scum kill at night, not in-thread play. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 14 2013 02:29 fferyllt wrote: Reading the role descriptions on page 1 I'm not seeing how you figure this. iV, If you've answered this, I've missed it. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
If he slides in throws a vote, then he needs to be lynched tomorrow if not today. As to the rest, I'm having fits of paranoia. If I convince myself the paranoia is warranted, my vote will go to iV. I'm not going to claim to have a great case. I didn't have a great case on Yavanna. I was right about her, but I accepted that I wasn't going to convince anyone on day 1. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
sounds pretty townsided by what I've learned about TL standards. I will think about it. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 14 2013 07:36 StiMaDDict wrote: ##Vote: StiMaDDict After LoneMeow's mislynch (by me), I was both busy irl and afraid to take part in the game. It's all bit too much for me to follow. Just want to pull out of the game at this point. Not good. Very, very not good. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I really hate what is essentially a policy vote on day 3. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 14 2013 08:19 Onegu wrote: But it is plausible he is scum That's not what you said a few posts upthread. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
it's not a winning strategy. Especially when the vote wasn't going his direction before the post anyway. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 14 2013 08:09 Onegu wrote: I guess he could be scum and just gave up after day 2 both his partners were dead... On June 14 2013 08:09 Onegu wrote: But not likely to here. On June 14 2013 08:19 Onegu wrote: But it is plausible he is scum | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 14 2013 08:42 Onegu wrote: Plausible but not likely is a real thing... But I wont lie I dont think he is scum I still think xzavier is scum but I see no other way to save myself, if you think I am useful vote stim if not vote anyone else, basicly this is what it comes down to. Survivalistic behavior in town is not terribad play but it does ring an alarm or two given the numbers.If you know you are town then you know your lynch is a mislynch, and some other lynch, especially of a questionable player is more likely to hit scum than lynching you. That's where the suvivalistic stuff comes in. I think you are both equally likely to get mislynched tomorrow as today unless something changes in the gamestate between today and day 4. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Which of you is more likely scum...gah. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 14 2013 08:56 Onegu wrote: All I can give you is go back and look at the cases which to be honest isnt much on either of us, but I think you are just going to have to go with your feel. There is more to mafia than objective cases. It boils down to this: The one who's clawing for another day. And the one who apparently just wants out of the game. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 14 2013 02:29 fferyllt wrote: Reading the role descriptions on page 1 I'm not seeing how you figure this. One more time, iV. Please explain how you figure this. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
KP is an unsual piece of game mechanics where I hail from. I thought I might be missing something crucial in all this. What are your thoughts on Stim's return to the game. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 14 2013 09:39 iVLosK! wrote: Null. I would much rather lynch Xzavier as he is playing like absolute garbage and acting like he's not. Stim doing what he's doing is a death sentence either way, so there's no scum or town motivation for it. Null. Enough to get a feel for what's noob and what's not. The place where I come from had noob games that were like 75% noob, 25% vets to give a good example that I always played in. Ok. My experience in n00b games is more like 50% and what I have seen is a whole lot of site-flaking by n00btown, sometimes with flounce, sometimes with no fanfare, sometimes with apologies Stim fits the latter form. Objectively, Xzav looks worse - all over the place, up and down. Objectively, Onegu has played a tighter and more controlled game. I associate tighter and more controlled games with players who are really working at keeping things tight and controlled. Until something snaps. And something could have snapped today IMO if Onegu is scum. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
##Vote Xzav | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 14 2013 10:41 iVLosK! wrote: I've never heard of being forced to take a shot, but if also never heard of roleblocks stopping KP either. I've had a couple of SK roles where the shots were compulsory. Most were not, though. I have no idea what is usual here. Wouldn't it be spelled out in the role list? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 15 2013 04:39 iVLosK! wrote: What exactly is this fictional case on iV that I've been hearing so much about? That I've been right every single time except for with Xzavier? It is not known if you were right on day 2. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 13 2013 15:27 fferyllt wrote: Case for iV being scum (some of these may be null) - argued against the yavanna case - hopped the Firere bandwagon as it started to gain steam and look inevitable. Had a list of 3 for the day 1 lynch - Skanjab died after masoning him night 1 - Stayed off the Lonemeow wagon. Voted Xzav, then Umasi - JK means he may have been the protected victim, may also mean he was the blocked killer - Has floated a few names on day 3 and apparently has no plans to POE his list of 4 before wagonning. - Is not leading, despite being perceived as town by p much all. - warmed up to yavanna as potential scum only after day 1, when she was a modkill possibility. - minimized possibility that kill went missing because he was blocked.* Case against iV being scum - Day 1 gambit got the game rolling in a good direction - Good protown general advice on stuff not to do in mafia. - Skanjab read him as town, masoned him, self-proclaimed track record of reading him correctly** * could be a style thing. If I were JK'd I'd make sure that possibility was kept in mind. ** strongest reason to think he's town IMO. I'm still working on my Onego case. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Tunnelling and survivalistic. Also his posts just come off as careful. Even with the vote stuff last night, his posting was unemotional and controlled. Which could be personality. i thought he would at least show a crack in the exterior, though. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I'm listening to my scumdar today. Barring amazing revelations from the heaven, my vote won't budge. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
No. Staying calm under no pressure is not a big deal. Staying unemotional and calculated while under a lot of pressure is different. You were under a fair bit of pressure yesterday, culminating with a literally last minute vote switch to save yourself. And your demeanor under vote pressure is a stark contrast to players like Xzav and Umasi. That isn't scummy in and of itself. But it usually comes with game experience. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 15 2013 11:41 Spicydinosaur wrote: Stim hasn't been wanting to play for the past few days.... and there have been no night kills...too easy of a connection? Or has the jailer been pro the last 2 nights with either saves/roleblocks? No matter who is the last scum, the kill could have been skipped last night in order to frame the player who was JKed. It's a long, slow and dangerous slog to endgame depending only on lynches. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 15 2013 12:05 Onegu wrote: Lol this is my first game of mafia... I have played alot of d&d though. All things being equal, scum players tend to under-react to pressure, though there is sometimes a crack in the surface. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 15 2013 12:55 Onegu wrote: Hey stim come vote it would be mighty kind of you to save a fellow :-) wow. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 15 2013 23:35 Onegu wrote: Out of all of us only ffery meets this criteria... Not exactly true. I was the 2nd vote on Firere. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 16 2013 05:02 iVLosK! wrote: Ambiguous means "not having clear meaning" so I clarified for you. If you want my opinion, just ask for my opinion. My opinion is that I prefer an Umasi vote over an Onegu vote due to voting histories. You think that Onegu was the kill target last night? Or that scum intentionally or unintentionally made no kill? Or something else? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 16 2013 05:27 Onegu wrote: Why bring this up I have nothing to gain by claiming. I'm thinking about all the permutations. I want to make sure I'm not missing a possibility. iV wanting to lynch Umasi today in the face of your claim to have been JK'ed seems pretty odd. If you were JKed then scum-you would pretty much have to claim it or go for some crazy 1v1 gambit. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
TBH if it's not Onegu, I'm going to have a nervous breakdown trying to decide between you or Umasi.for final scum. If it's Spicydinosaur he's earned the win with phenomenal day 1/night 1 play. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 16 2013 07:33 iVLosK! wrote: In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Umasi is nervous scum. And what was Xzav? | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I know. I still would like an answer to my question. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
And you think that Umasi would skip a kill? You think he would genuinely believe he could get you lynched? Because even when I thought I might need to get you lynched if I'm wrong about Onegu, I wasn't sure I could do it in this environment. Some players just aren't easy to lynch. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 16 2013 13:47 s0Lstice wrote: fferyltt, you played really well. the one thing I would say is work on your confidence. Your reads were pretty darn good..sometimes you gotta browbeat people to get them to see the light. Did you really like that Xzav lynch? I bet you coulda stopped it if you were louder. Overall though your play was really fun to watch, I hope you play again. Speaking of the Xzav lynch....so confusing lol. He looked really town right from the starting gun. Things got weird, but a day 1 re-read really should have stopped his lynch imo. Onegu, you played a heroic scum game...the deck was stacked against you and you gave it a good fight. Fferyltt really needed to die though to a NK. In your shoes I'd have probably gunned for her night 1. thanks. was really disappointed with myself on day 3. my goal was to get onegu lynched and then jk iV again. I went back and forth on whether to trust iV and trust his reads when I did trust that he was town. I am usually not alive on day 3. my game is turned to day 1 and 2. I fall apart on day 3 and sometimes pull myself back together if I am still in the game in day 4. I thought I was way too obvious on night 1 telling SD that one of us would be around on day 2. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 16 2013 15:13 Onegu wrote: Ffer you are jailer right? This was my first game of maffia and want to thank my coach alot. I didnt think I needed to save him at the time the votes were so close and I went to sleep and we still didnt know yavanna was gone yet. Skanjab was a random kill night one I just got lucky. Because of the edited post I felt he iVlosK! was blue night 2. My night 3 kill target was going to be spicy even though I knew ffer was probraly jailer, then I was sure she was after I was roleblocked. Yes I was jailer. Good work figuring that out! On night 1 I purely went for protecting someone I thought was uber town. Spicydinosaur was first on Firere and had argued tirelessly against the Gotard lynch. I also thought that of all the players I thought were town, he was most likely to stay on Yavanna on day 2. I half expected to be the N1 kill depending on how experienced the scum team was because I knew I had dropped some PR tells on day 1. That final convo SD and I had before day 2 started was my breadcrumb about who I would JK in case I was the N1 kill. I didn't learn for sure that my targets got messages about it until Day 3.. On night 2 I decided to go with iV and I was equally interested in blocking or protecting. If someone else died then he would be confirmed town. If there was no NK, then I would have to figure out whether he was the intended victim or the perp. That was why I kept questioning him on day 3. I finally decided he'd been the kill target, but didn't know whether to trust his reads. As the idea of killing xZav or Umasi kept coming up, I began asking him about his experience playing with newbs because our reads on those two were not lining up. I concluded he had more experience playing with newbs than I did, and dropped my own day 2 plans which had been to get either Onegu or iV lynched and then JK whoever of them was left on night 3. Instead both were still alive and that made the JK decision much harder. With SD semi-cleared, and me leaning town again on iV, I went with a purely block decision and chose Onegu. I posted a blatant crumb a couple minutes after the night action deadline in case I was wrong. I figured if I was wrong, I was going to be dead. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Anyway, here's the screed I thought about posting. I decided not to post it mostly because I thought I was probably the only living blue. -------------------------------------- There’s a pretty good chance I won’t be alive tomorrow, so I want give the blue roles some general advice, though you should of course talk to the coaches as well on how to play blue roles well. What I have to say is probably not optimal play for your particular role at the beginning of a game unless you have an excellent scumdar. But now that we have some card flips and some ideas on who might be scum this kind of strategy can be more helpful. Think like a vig. No matter what your role, even vanilla town, think like a vig. If you had one bullet, how would you use it? Now, think about how you can use your abilities to do something similar. If you are the doc, that guy you would have shot…who most needs protection from that specific person? If you are the cop, then that’s the person you want to view. If you are wrong, that’s ok, you should have a cleared townie tomorrow who was otherwise at risk of being mislynched. If you are role blocker, then same thing. Tonight, there is probably one killer left. If you block someone tonight and there is no kill, then there is a good chance you blocked scum. If there is a kill, then the person you blocked is 99% cleared because we probably don’t have 2 killers left after 2 scum dying. Anyway, think about ways to find scum and if you are wrong then to clear players who otherwise could be mislynches. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 16 2013 16:51 Gotard wrote: Fun game I wish I had time to play it and be somewhat useful.  You did ok! The combination of your play plus how the day 1 bandwagons developed put you in most players' town pile. If you had time to read and analyze more, that would have been awesome. Play another game! | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Mostly it was knowing that I turn into a paranoid basket case on day 3. I kept telling myself iV was probably town until I started believing it again. s0Lstice was right about my confidence problem. I'm confident to the point of arrogance on day 1 and if I survive I eventually get back to that place later in the game. Day 3 or 4 I tend to fall apart, get paranoid about all the people I read as town earlier in the game, and (probably the worst thing) look for someone who appears to have a clue, try to figure out why they think what they think, and then toss my own ideas out the window and follow them. Sometimes that works out great. Sometimes it doesn't. Having a night action tends to at least keep me focused once the game day ends. Sometimes I do better in that aspect of the game than I do with my vote, if scum give me a couple nights to do my thing. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
If you look back, nearly every single time someone speculated about blues one of the 3 players with blue roles posted some version of stfu. I actually didn't have iV down as a blue, because I thought if there was night action discussion in the QT he would have doctored the QT discussion copy/paste so as not to leave obvious gaps. Since he left gaps, I assumed it was speculation about blue roles or something. But, as it turns out, that correlation held for him, too. My "remind me after the game ends" was followed by some wtf are you talking about posts, which at the time made me sick to my stomach. I shut down the convo quickly, commenting "I misinterpreted something, I think". As a VT I will get all up in another player's grill for speculating out loud on roles, and would be perfectly happy to draw an NK that could keep the real PRs in the game another day. As a blue in this particular game, with no meta here indicating that as VT I might be decoying, I was pretty pissed at myself. Note: Over time this sort of tell gets quite convoluted, with VT players sometimes being all closed mouthed, and with PRs yelling at people for speculation in order to look VT. In a "clean" environment where few players have any meta or knowledge about each other, the correlations are pretty straightforward. Onegu you were so blatantly role fishing on day 4 that if I hadn't already had my vote on you I would have voted you for that alone. Since I thought you were scum, I didn't even try to get you to stop speculating. It was just more evidence added to the reasons to vote you. That's one thing to avoid when you have a scum role. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
Hedging is taking an ambiguous stance on a player. "X looks scummy because reason, but I'm not sure yet." Or asking questions. "Do you think X looks scummy because reason?" rather than taking a stand on your own. Waffling is flip-flopping on a player, thinking they are scummy and then thinking they are town. Town players do both of these things, but are usually more willing to take a stand and say "So and so is scummy looking because reason", even though they may change their mind later. You did more hedging than waffling, especially asking leading questions. In scumhunting I like to ask open-ended questions so that i give the player I am asking fewer clues about what sort of answer I will find townish. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 17 2013 08:10 StiMaDDict wrote: Gg well played, both town and mafia. iV and ffer were outstanding. As for me.. I think I did a pretty aweful job. I had a complete mental break down after LoneMeow flipped town. I was so sure of it after firere345 flip Day1. I tunnelled LoneMeow so hard. sorry Anyway I'm going to go over the whole thread again in hope that I can much from it. The Xzav lynch really took the wind out of my sails in much the same way; both that I let/helped it happen and that I didn't stick with Onegu once I sort of had iV back in my town pile. But, perfect town wins and perfect scum wins don't grow on trees. Most games this size at least one person gets mislynched. One of the things I've realized recently is that a reads-based game like mine is not often going to synch up well with a strategy/optimization based game which IV's game resembles, though I think his style actually incorporates both reads and optimization. I should probably work on finding middle ground myself, but I don't like paying attention to the numbers and straight bandwagon analysis when they contradict reads I feel strongly about. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
| ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
AxelGreasersDog's QT post #15 was one of the most insightful commentaries I've read in a long time, particularly: I like first posts in games. While basing anything off small data sets is unreliable so is extracting information from noisy data sets. Thus even though first post in games is a small amount of data it is "clean" That is one of the whys that scum like to shit up a thread by making it loud and noisy and emotional. If there is emotive crap flying around it is much more likely that the townies will mis-attribute the off/scummy behaviour to personal non game related reactions to the crap. In first posts, the townies, come out of vacuum of knowledge, scum come out of the scum QT. To me at that point the amount of difference in what the (scum vs town)players think they know is greatest. At this point in the thread the thread acquires a dead baby seal. Everybody scum or not, playing or not, reacts to the seal. I may be able to tell what kinds of human they are from their reactions, but after this point I don't get any more first post reads. Oh well. I'm not sure specifically what I will modify yet, but this will change my future first posts, and will also affect what I look for in first posts. I told Prome in one of our PM exchanges during the game that playing with TL players at MS has changed my approach to getting players sorted, with an emphasis on more quickly, more decisively and more vocally. Thanks to all the folks who have provided feedback. Game-improving feedback doesn't always grow on trees. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I'm overextended in mafia games at MS at the moment, with 8 games in progress where I am still alive. Playing a game with 48 hour days right now would seriously impact my efforts in those games. I plan to save some bandwidth for TL games once a couple of these games finish or I die, whichever comes first. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 19 2013 06:30 Hurricane Sponge wrote: When the 'newbie games' have players in them that are currently playing 8 SIMULTANEOUS games of mafia, it makes me nervous about signing up. yabbut I'm playing with Ents. This game was a very nice change of pace. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 19 2013 06:36 VisceraEyes wrote: From the same post: Generally speaking the majority of players in the newbie games are as inexperienced as everyone else in the game with them. This game was an exception apparently.  Yeah, I think the random numbers were unkind to the scum team in that respect. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
I remember hearing that MS games tend to be more townsided than TL games. I sort of expected town in this game to have the Blue equivalent of a rusty spoon and to have to depend primarily on daytime scumhunting. I think town could have figured this out even if my JK actions went more astray, but it would have been a squeaker for whichever side won. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 19 2013 23:26 Acrofales wrote: This game, scum got some bad breaks. Not being able to find a replacement for Yavanna screwed them up pretty badly, and they were all very new players, compared to town who had 3 mafiascum veterans (sometimes RNG works that way). I think that impacted the game quite a bit more than the blue balance, which I still don't see much of a problem with. The setup I had in mind was a Hatter, a Masoner and 1 out of 4 roles at random (JK, Vet, Cop or Medic) versus the scumteam we had. I thought about a scum Masoner, but I figured that by D2 or D3, someone would know there were 2 masoners and it would be easy to see that one of them must be town and the other scum (I also thought of giving town 2 masoners just to fuck with that logic ).Also, the lack of a cop doesn't mean the godfather is useless. It allows you to play a certain way simply by KNOWING that a cop check will show you green, regardless of the presence of actual cops. But... both of my last newbie games the town won fairly handily (as opposed to the first one I hosted, which scum won with a flawless victory), I might have to ramp it up for the next time EDIT: and in other, totally unrelated news, the new True Blood episode was absolutely terrible. Even with my low expectations for it. I'm not sure how much of a problem Yavanna's absence was, really. I had planned to do whatever I could to either determine she was town or get her lynched on day 2. She went to the back burner when she didn't show up. If day 2 had ended with her lynch instead of lonemeow it would have been better for town than the mislynch plus the modkill. Maybe I would have failed to get her lynched. But unlike day 3, I had a very clear target and goal in mind to start with, and wound up floundering about because that target never showed up. | ||
|
fferyllt
United States317 Posts
On June 20 2013 00:55 marvellosity wrote: Irritating that the godfather had to leave the game, else we could ask her to comment on your hypothesis :D You might well be right with the mindset thing I guess, it's not something I can empathise with terribly well though (you came out the blocks running as mafia too, if I'm not mistaken) edit: arguably while she was here, she did play the most 'free'. I have a feeling my sample size may be a little small though Yeah she did play the most free. She appeared to be actively trying to infiltrate the nascent town bloc. Those were the behaviors that caught my eye. Softball questions to obvtown Xzav. And pushing Umasi to the outskirts. The Gotard bandwagon injected a ton of wifom into the game. It would have been disastrous to just lynch through that wagon. | ||
| ||
