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Someone please tell me you choose [2,-]
Please.....please tell me you did so if I had stick with my original choice ([2,2]) I would at least have clashed with you and gotten 7-9....and not just gotten 2nd place and be 100% able to pick inventor basically.
On April 05 2013 15:20 Keirathi wrote:
Justice Vigilante (Unless you are just a 100% master scumhunter never wrong, don't pick this).
Guess I know what role I'm picking then 
Anyways, I'm not against using KP.
Right now there are people you don't want to shoot at all basically (town reads or active people), and then guys you are free to shoot.
I wouldn't mind everybody shooting the guys you are free to shoot and leave the guys you don't shoot alive, either single handily winning us the game, or putting us very very closer to doing so.
For instance, anybody is free to shoot Caller if he plays like this until N1. You can figure out the rest of that list, you guys are not dumb.
D1 will give people a better idea of where to go and stuff. Also it'd be chaos to enforce
Snoman, do you have an idea why nobody tried to get you off #1 place? Any suggestions? Can I shoot you 10 minutes into D1 if you answer incorrectly?
Also, damn VE you try to be scum on purpose man?
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On April 06 2013 02:35 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 02:19 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, I'm not against using KP.
Right now there are people you don't want to shoot at all basically (town reads or active people), and then guys you are free to shoot.
I wouldn't mind everybody shooting the guys you are free to shoot and leave the guys you don't shoot alive, either single handily winning us the game, or putting us very very closer to doing so.
For instance, anybody is free to shoot Caller if he plays like this until N1. You can figure out the rest of that list, you guys are not dumb.
D1 will give people a better idea of where to go and stuff. Also it'd be chaos to enforce
So your advice is "townies kill of bad players, while scum kill off the good ones"? I don't even....
"I wouldn't mind X" =/= "I advice X"
Also scum has 1 KP, and if every townie takes away every KP from scum, they'll keep having 1 KP. The rate at which good townies die will be less than the ones in which scum+bad townies die.
It just adds some variance depending on who gets the KP, how they play, and how town in general is playing.
If we just play "well" there'll be no problems, thus being unnecessary to enforce any policy (which would be un-enforceable).
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You could say about Keirathi the same as many other players I think (Artanis, austin, ObviousOne some more perhaps) who are still "trying to help" yet not scumhunting in a meaningful way (if not to appear they contribute and stuff), if not just not scumhunting at all.
He's acting a little dickish I guess though (unlike the others I mentioned), which sets him apart from them a little bit in terms of behaviour, but just makes him null at worst
Anyways, right now I call back the "feel free to shoot Caller" tid-bit (Caller seems to be putting quite a lot of effort for how much he "trolls"). and instead put "feel free to kill Sno-man"
It was good enough for Mattchew to catch scum 1 minute into D1 last game, it can be good enough here, specially if Sno does shit all this game and has few forgetful intranscendental posts.
Wisdom: WIFOM party though, considering that exact reason was stated before the draft phase ended. However, considering that by having a scumbuddy pick [1,1] too outs that 2nd guy (when everybody claims draft numbers) and takes Sno out from #1 spot, it's WIFOM worthy to take into account
Scenario: Sno claimed pre-game he'd pick [1,1] and intentionally crashing with him would hinder scum too much, out one of them, and maybe still have Sno under pressure. Therefore just keep him at #1 so he can pick CPR Doctor/Janitor and maybe brush off the fact for WIFOM.
Fact: I'm the only person in the whole game that brought up the "Mattchew foolproof method for finding scum" tid-bit against Sno after the draft phase was over. Not even scum mentioned it (I skimmed some of the post so this could be wrong though)
On April 06 2013 03:19 yamato77 wrote:
I'm actually starting to agree with you on Vivax, Oats.
And I also like Caller's pursuit of Keirathi, I agree with a lot of the stuff he's saying.
I do want to put a gun to sinani's head, because in RTP, when I was scum with him, his filter early on was very similar to this one.
Wisdom: Sinani gets misslynched A LOT I gather. Tread carefully here my son, I don't really see sinani playing unlike what he'd play as "misslyncb bait" town.
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On April 06 2013 03:30 yamato77 wrote:
Sinani being lynchbait does not mean he gets a free pass to lurk and post meaningless posts, gonzaw.
I'm not saying he gets one.
I'm just giving wise advice, so hopefully my town brethren take heed on and so no tunnels on townies and shitted up threads happen
Anyways yamato, can you tell me why you'd prefer killing Meapak, over, for instance, this guy?
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On April 06 2013 03:40 yamato77 wrote:
I told you why I want to kill him, why do you seem resistant? Is there some redeeming quality to Meapak that makes him not the best choice for lynch tomorrow?
For one, OO has posted about 3x as much stuff as MZ so far.
I liked this post from his:
On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 10:10 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. Why On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote:
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts. Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them? You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly I have to agree with yamato on Oats. Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase. No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so. So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number). I guess it's too late though, meh. I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway  currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D
I like some of his reactions and interactions with other players. He seems to not "try" (i.e post giant walls of text discussing shit), but it does feel he cares when he posts, which I think he wouldn't at this stage as scum (and would play more like Palmar/VE/maybe decuondo for now).
ObviousOne has passed the "Fluff and Filler!" 101 class with honors, and seems to continue to excel in the course
Example of fluff: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=32#628
Example of out of place attempt to scumhunt which seems "obviously" pointless pressure the more you think about it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=35#695
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I'm reading his filter from RED and I don't get the same feeling there as I do here. He seems more "noob" this game than on that one.
Plus I checked his profile and the only game he's been scum was in the hydra game with VE and he barely posted there at all.
Feel free to provide counterexamples
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I'll tell you what I like about that post:
1)I agree with his reads, even when those reads were not part of "town's sentiment" at the time (for instance the Artanis and rayn/RO ones I think).
2)The "the decuondo bit is a red herring" bit. Feels a little too spontaneous and not planned, seemingly likelier to be done by town
Won't dwell on this too much though....since I don't like defending scum if I'm eventually wrong (oh the memories from Can't Believe Mafia still linger...)
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Hereby I decree, via the will of the wise and only gonzaw the One, thoughts be shared regarding these individuals, and words be spread about the One's wise annotations and analysis made in their name:
ObviousOne
Sno_man
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Read my "Wisdom" tags austin.
Scum have to always choose between risk and reward. WIFOM is a pattern for scum decision making that has set values for said risk/reward (risk: Town don't buy the WIFOM, reward: Town buy the WIFOM)
However, there are more risks and rewards in this process that's not just pure WIFOM.
For instance what I stated: Some scum picking [1,1] alongside scum Sno puts both of them lower in the list, "outs" the 2nd guy as scum since we'd now someone taking down a claimed [1,1] out of nowhere is scum. On top of that, the WIFOM bit can "fail" and people may still believe Sno is scum
There is little reward in doing that, other than maybe creating more WIFOM in favor of Sno.
The only other alternative for scum Sno is to lie and pick something else rather than [1,1]. That has less risks, although the "why did you lie from what you said in pre-game?" risk my be big enough for them not to try.
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My other point is that scum would love to point this out.
If Sno is town and they DON'T clash with him.....why wouldn't they? The only reason other than some bullshit stuff is to include that WIFOM against him, which would mean they'd love to point out how he's scum for getting #1 just like what Mattchew did the last game
...however nobody mentioned it, and nobody did anything when I mentioned it.
In probabilistic terms, something is off (although the possibility scum are just bad, or don't give a fuck, or were all AFK forever is still there).
Also....I think I'll get my 3k milestone earlier (if I want to...you know...play good in this game), so it might not be as great guys 
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Yeah don't bother with the roleplaying stuff
I don't even know who my char is, I don't know ANYBODY in Boardwalk Empire (I don't even know the name of Buschemi's character).
I'm just being wise in general, ya know?
Again, choosing both scum [1,1] is a risk with that reward you posted. It has other risks as well (like the ones I stated)
If scum try to either play safe, or don't really know what they are doing, nor know the game that much (nor know what happened last game), they'd still keep scum Sno to pick [1,1] alone.
Personally, I think it increases the chances of him being scum, which merits him....you know...come back, defend himself, contribute and be put in the crosseyes to see if he is or not.
Like I said his posts are forgetful and intranscendental I don't even remember what he posted about.
It's also a nice "entry point" for discussion towards D1, other than Caller arguing with Keirathi, or rayn tunneling RO, etc.
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On April 06 2013 04:26 austinmcc wrote:
I don't know how you'd see both as scummy if one player flips and had picked [1][1], just based on the picks.
If someone claims he'll pick [1,1], and you are town, you won't clash with him unless you DON'T want that specific player at #1, sacrificing your chance at getting higher in the list.
Why would you do this out of nowhere though? You wouldn't, you'd either discuss it, post in the thread about it (if you just don't care), or think that guy is scum and thus sacrifice your picking chance to do so
Remember, townies get the chance to get THE ROLE OF THEIR DREAMS, and they always play alone, so they need a very very higher incentive to sacrifice their draft spot. Scum play with plans and get "community roles". They don't care if scum X gets a high spot if they can get scum Y to get a high spot. They don't care if scum X gets a specific role if they can get Y to get it. They play as a team, thus they wouldn't care about sacrificing their spots to take out a [1,1] guy.
Town would ("sane" town at least ).
Therefore, if someone just picks [1,1] out of nowhere even if someone else claimed so to is likely scum, unless he does the stuff a townie would obviously do in that scenario (which didn't happen by the time the draft phase was over).
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Artanis, do you believe your own case and "push" of geript....or are you joking?
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Hmm....okay, I'll analyze this later then.
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We are not killing either VE nor RO tomorrow. We are killing my "hidden scum read", which I'll post shortly.
I'm not sure what to think of either VE nor RO right now. Skimming their posts is not enough. VE made some bad points about RO (the thing where RO called Oats out for defending him when he thought he was scum is legit and at worst it points to RO being town not scum).
RO wanting to kill some people he thought are town out of nowhere and the way he's reacting is weird though.
VE is
Also, if someone gets day vigi, don't use it 10 minutes into D1, post you have Day KP and give everybody 24 hours heads up. You'll even get more info on people that way.
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Fuck:
VE is being VE and in the grand scale of things doing very few noticeable things to gauge his alignment. Generally to "catch" a player like VE, you need a lot of info to process before doing so, whether his actions, his inactions, or the actions of others.
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Also, 11 posts to milestone!
I'll change my objective to post a case against scum, but a single one (it's too early to catch all scum unfortunately)
Sorry guys for failing you
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D1 hasn't started yet huh?
Buggers
Where are sharrant, snoman, strong and Meapak?
No comment on anything else that's been going on, except that the Palmar/VE thing might need to wait until D1 to gain more strength to be taken into account (people calling them scum that is).
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Count-down: 8
VE your promises are null until you do start to do something.
The more you keep promising to do stuff "when the game starts" the worse you look
People are justified voting for you, specially with some low-quality posts of yours (that "omg had the best idea evah!" post of yours for instance, and an apparently bad case on RO), lack of interest/activity despite your "eagerness" and "over-joy" when you started, and the aforementioned promises.
You are VE though so there's always that "he may be doing this shit as town" idea in the back of my head.
It's easy though, if by late-D1 you don't contribute shit (or important townie shit) you die, and I doubt anybody will disagree with this.
I'll give you at least that amount of time, so I'm not insta-voting you right now or anything.
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EPT
