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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On March 12 2013 11:53 iamperfection wrote: you do not have enough votes the bug man is a good lynch and who should be killed. and i can not get past not trusting the foolish one. You realise the double negative reads: I can *GET* past trusting the foolish one? | ||
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On March 12 2013 11:56 marvellosity wrote: I should add, where Dandel was mafia. K. I will have a quick read of that next cycle. I think British 2 was short (didnt read it) | ||
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nicely done SnB | ||
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On March 12 2013 12:09 iamperfection wrote: .................................. .................. .......... ..... ... maybe you should read a bit closer ?? [Bugs win-con] You win when the Brown outnumber all other players. SnB was the first to say he could be 3rd party (as jester) but whatever | ||
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Mocsta
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On March 12 2013 12:13 cDgCorazon wrote: Maybe you should read a bit closer Moc. His win-con was to survive the game. there is no "brown"... What I wrote was the same thing (brown outnumber all other players) Regardless.. he wasnt scum, which sucks (cos they still have 3KP).. but.. we still eliminated an anti-town role. So it was a much better than a mislynch. | ||
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On March 12 2013 12:12 Acrofales wrote: (but I am realizing that I suck at roleplaying my personality). Is this meant to be a claim? | ||
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On March 12 2013 12:13 cDgCorazon wrote: Maybe you should read a bit closer Moc. His win-con was to survive the game. there is no "brown"... Anyways.. are you going to continue to pussy foot around my case on you? You still have not addressed a single item from there... | ||
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On March 12 2013 12:17 Acrofales wrote: Yes. I am claiming that I have a personality! I know that you have been out of town, so i can live with the useless activity for Day 1. But now that you are back.. i am going to be watching you *very* carefully | ||
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On March 12 2013 12:22 Acrofales wrote: Does that mean there's someone you're not watching carefully? No. Im watching everyone carefully And people like YOU... *Very* carefully | ||
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On March 12 2013 12:41 cDgCorazon wrote: Well besides the fact that I've figured out you are going to defend Yamato to the bitter end, there's not much to say about the case. However, the fact that you called me your #1 scumread and then switched off of me once it was obvious I wasn't getting lynched is a pretty suspicious. #1 - Im not defending yamato to the bitter end. I want answers from him (unfortunately as much as you seem to want to) I was pointing out, your case felt contrived and that you seem to string together points hastily. I was debunking your case, not yamato. #2 - You were my #1 read till I noticed Bugs was pressuring kurumi after the mod confirm. That was scummier for me than the things you had done. With Bugs gone, you're back in the mix for me.. im not letting you brush off my pressure - as currently you still have not addressed I single issue I raised to you... *And guess what.. you called out yamato as scum for doing the same thing, you are doing to me* | ||
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Mocsta
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On March 12 2013 13:30 cDgCorazon wrote: Perhaps it never occurred to you: that I didn't think the answers in your filter are sufficient.I did not throw shit on your case against me. Everything you had attacked me about (my reaction to BnS and tunneling Yamato) was stuff that others had attacked me about as well and that I had answered already. Most of your case was stuff I had answered too already, so I basically went and told you to read my filter. It's not "You don't like the case because it's sub-par" It's "The case is sub-par because you do not like it". You're basically defending Yamato by attacking me and completely ignoring my points, just using stuff I said in Duel Mafia to try to make it look like I am contradicting myself. On the topic of Duel Mafia, I never said anywhere that I had a town read on Oats in duel mafia. I had attacked him early on in the game before it because apparent that there were people way obviously scummier than him. So don't say I thought Oats was town in that game. You are free to not like my case, but you are not free to use your opinion on the case to call me scum. That you do, suggests we are at an impasse. When I get back from HotS. I will re-read over your filter answers, and communicate my issues with your play (i.e. why I think you are scummy) with a different approach. | ||
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On March 12 2013 13:53 cDgCorazon wrote: Perhaps if you had communicated that in a better way (aka saying which things in my filter did not answer Vivax's and Marv's questions properly) instead of simply rephrasing their questions could've been more beneficial to the both of us. Thats a fuckn cheap shot, and precisely the type of behaviour which is why I think you are scum. I case on you, was governed by items I found problematic in your play. It so happened that some others picked it up prior. Didnt realise this game was a competition to identify scummy behaviour first...and then, that point is out of bounds for everyone else. Wake up corazon. | ||
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Mocsta
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On March 12 2013 14:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Scum knew Bugs was going to flip not scum. Scum have virtually no motivation to make a spectacle of switching at the last minute onto Vivax if he's townie, and definitely no scum motivation for switching onto him if he's scum. Scenarios I can envision scum switching onto townVivax are few. Primarily among them though, to save scum who are on the block otherwise. Obviously not Bugs, but maybe one of Yamato/Crossfire. I unvoted Crossfire because he was here and willing to lynch Vivax, and Yamato because his recent posting has not been as scummy as his earlier posting. However, that leaves the question: which one and which switchers. The question I'm interested in answering is: are there scum between Vivax, Yamato and Crossfire. This is the question I intend to answer overnight. I can work with that direction. Sounds reasonable. I will have a flick through what everyone said of xfire.. perhaps my reasons for his town read were flawed.. i really thought I read sincerity in his last couple of posts, but i guess, scum have an equal desire to avoid the lynch as well. [fluff] HotS is bullshit. After you install it, it needed a 2gb download to play. Pretty frustrating wait for a brand new game. (But the campaign is OK so far) | ||
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On March 12 2013 15:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Still pretty sure Vivax is scum. Also that means that Foolishness is scum, which is hilarious  Why does Vivax = scum => Foolishness MUST = scum? | ||
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On March 12 2013 15:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Cause I would assume that he is good enough to not try and defend someone who is scum/not so townie. Like if he read the two filters and called them different when in actual fact they are the same. Its kinda like if a chicken farmer tells you his chickens are fine, but in actual fact they arent, you know that the chicken farmer knew too and was lying to you. hmm.. well you can only have one lynch a cycle. With the information currently, do you prefer foolishness or vivax? | ||
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On March 12 2013 16:13 Foolishness wrote: I was gone and made an accusation based on what I skimmed through the thread at the time. Then when I came back to push the case further I realized I was wrong when I analyzed him. Which should be obvious given that I gave the proof. I can accept that. Thank fuck your not writing 5 paragraph stories anymore. Would be painful if every case you made had to be formatted like that. So if your reads are evolving: what do you think of what VE proposed prior? i.e. Do you think scum were trying to create multiple wagons - other than bugs.. or were content with him as a lynch? & One of yam/xfire/vivax = scum? | ||
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On March 12 2013 16:24 Oatsmaster wrote: I just think its not really a very useful defense honestly. It doesnt really help Vivax and all it does is make you look good. if the defense is no good... how does it make foolishness look good? im not sure vivax is an easy/direct meta read, so im not sold on the vivax defense. but i do accept that his read changed throughout the cycle. in the end, it appears we want the same thing from foolishness. i.e. his revised scum read. | ||
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Mocsta
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+ Show Spoiler [Yamato = Keep] + Leaning Town The crux: the "anonymous" vigilante argument. Yam has been questioned numerous times whether he had a kill activation phrase. His response: On March 12 2013 14:20 yamato77 wrote: And no, before you ask, I am not answering any more stupid fucking questions about my role. All you need to know is in my filter. On March 11 2013 16:49 yamato77 wrote: First of all, my role is all inclusive. I didn't choose to reveal his alignment and then shoot him, it happens as a consequence of the person being town. So as soon as I PM'd his name as the alignment check, his fate was sealed and there was nothing I could do about it. + Show Spoiler + Why did I do it, knowing this risk? Firstly, I feel like the people roleplaying heavily, aside from perhaps Prom, deserve a good hard look. None of them had been saying much up to that point and I felt like it was a huge distraction. Kurumi was the worst in this group by a long shot, so losing him even if he was town was not a huge loss. More importantly, it kept town from focusing on him the entire rest of the day with his attention whore mentality and martyring. Basically, I used my alignment check much like a vigi shot. Shoot into the worst of the unreadables and hope you hit red. Unfortunately, I didn't, but it was still objectively a decent move because what it did was get attention away from Kurumi and mainly on to me, where scum have a more difficult time taking a stance due to the more unsure thread sentiment regarding myself at the moment. I can now proceed to completely remove all doubt from the situation and look at who attacked me and why to make inferences about their alignment. The "Pro gf snipe" comment was a joke on my role. Super soft should remember being the target of MZ as a dayvig after Super had just shot a mafia player. MZ made a comment just like that one as he decided to shoot super, who was town. My role, thus, only shoots people that are town. If they were mafia, it works like a detective chevk., where I receive a PM detailing their alignment. I will make it clear, after the alignment check popped up into the thread, I had zero control over the death of Kurumi. The comment was a joke. The shot was predetermined. I sure hope kita and Grey got a good laugh out of it. I can roll with that as its a play on the dreamflower role PM: On March 11 2013 17:33 Mocsta wrote: Dreamflower role = Check scum => vig shot... check town => no shotYam, sounds like your role is a play on dream flower from personality 1. So your logic was if u hit Mafia u get a DT check And If u hit town u took out someone shitting up the thread? Is that correct? I'm still not sure why u would take this gamble without raising it as a question. I thought more people were hating bugs at the time than kurumi, unless u referring to him specifically about being town only today comments. The way he has repeatedly stuck to his guns with the role dynamics is in a similar vein to what I have come to expect from a town yamato (brush it all off nonchalantly because he "knows" he is town, nothing sticks: attitude). So even though I don't agree with his approach for the check (and it seems this is the main sticking point for a scum yam). I do believe the role dynamics => he was "anonymous". Now some are saying, yam had the balls and insight to claim as scum (similar situation to vivax fake-claiming vig in mafia LX).. I disagree. I think (yes) has the balls to make this play... BUT I dont think he had the *more important* insight. Why? Because, he has been questioned repeatedly from all directions. Yet, when giving justification; never considers "this anonymity insight" as a motive for the shot. Fact: Yam is impulsive. I am confident if he was aware of this "insight" he would have thrown it into the mix instantly to clear himself. This never happened. Yam is an anonymous vigilante, that decided to claim the scalp because he thought it was pro-town to remove someone shitting up the thread. The reason I give "leaning town" vs "probably town" is because his play has been pretty timid for a usual town yamato, so I want to exercise a bit more caution before giving full trust. + Show Spoiler [Crossfire99=Vig] + Probably scum My read has shifted. I thought this guy was trying to communicate better by dropping the roleplaying act. I also thought he was genuinely trying to aid town with his final posts.. i.e. On March 12 2013 11:00 Crossfire99 wrote: Sorry I played so terribly. I deserve to be lynched. Watch vivax because he pegged me as town even though i played like crap. Watch out for dandel. he might be scum but i'm not sure cause i've only been scum when i've played with him. On March 12 2013 11:19 Crossfire99 wrote: Those posts read as a sincere plea from a townie to me.Uh is there anything specific you guys want me to focus on to make sure I spend some time on before the lynch? I'm trying to catch up, but need to know what would be the most helpful. The problem is what eventuated from that plea. (1) he calls out SS with his Dandel Ion scum read & (2) the meat and veg of his late-cycle contribution(s) + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2013 11:48 Crossfire99 wrote: Yeah I am unsure on Yamato, so I don't want to lynch him. There's some good and bad. It's good that he calls out super. It's good that he wants to lynch bugs. It's good that he claimed his kill of kurumi. It was bad that he actually killed kurumi. It's weird that he want from instantly voting me at the very beginning of the game, to me only be a possibility of a lynch later on + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2013 02:02 yamato77 wrote: The delay for my role was built in. As for my Marv read... Hm. Gonna have to reread his filter closely. Super, I will say, is being especially useless and obviously lurky. Nothing has changed about Bugs. Not sold on Cross/Stutters, but the possibility exists there. Not good lynches. Sloosh needs more attention for being a useless pile of lurking shit, I definitely still want to lynch wbg cause he's done nothing but attack kurumi even when he knew he was modconfirmed town, plus he just trolled the thread when called out and doesn't even care about doing anything. I'm keeping my vote on wbg. Decides to stand in the middle with one of the key discussion topics: Yamato. If you finish with "He'll have to be looked into more" & don't add anything new to the discussion, why bother to comment in the first place? Reads as a guy looking to contribute, without making an effort. & (3)Ends up sticking with his sheep vote on WBG, after promising to "catch up on the thread and focus on key areas"... Basically, Crossfire99 sold me on the emotional plea; and now that I have had to chance to review what the outcome of his focus is.. I am left severely disappointed. The late-cycle contributions were on par with when he was roleplaying. I think Crossfire99 would make a superb vig target tonight. | ||
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Mocsta
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My new approach is: Instead of commenting on my case on you; I will continue discourse via the posts you replied to others (As you are so insistent that I am piggy backing...) (1) From VE On March 11 2013 06:20 cDgCorazon wrote: I think Strongandbig's argument is very good. It's very convincing, but we are still a long time away from the deadline. Other than that, I've just seen a lot of nonsense and posts that I cannot understand. I was the first one to start scum hunting, don't accuse me of not doing that... Also, it's a bit frustrating to try and scumhunt and then have 5 people complain that no one has scumhunted... Why are you so concerned about your image: that you need to declare you were the first to scum hunt? Everyone has to scum hunt: town, scum & 3rd party. You throw this out as if it should imply you are confirmed town? (2) From Vivax On March 11 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote: Vivax raises a good point.I think he makes good points. If you're going to make me repeat what he is saying and then try to hammer me for it, it's not going to happen. I'm not pushing Oats because I am pushing my own read (Yamato). Just because SnB's case is good doesn't give us an excuse to sit around for 24+ hours and do nothing. I've already said why Yamato is scummy and now I'm voting for him. It's pretty simple. You said you like SnB case; but its big. Why do you think it is applicable to Oats? Your response: "I care about my image.. & i dont want you to try and make me look bad" Why are you so concerned about your image when talking to others? Town Corazon normally is happy to share his tunneled thoughts.. this Corazon is thinking about what conversations make him come off looking better.. What gives? If you really did want to push your scum read. you could have said simply "I like the SnB case on oats, but I think yam is scummier. Im sticking with him" Instead: you provide reasoning on everything Vivax DIDN'T ask. You then continue discussion, and bring up trust as your reason for not providing more. I dont see what trust has got to do with with sharing reasoning and thought? Everyone is trying to get reads on eachother, and you are making this task intentionally more difficult by choosing to share when it only benefits you (3) From Marvellosity On March 11 2013 08:06 cDgCorazon wrote: Dude, this shitty logic is bad for your standards Marv. Why are you attacking me for having the same view as you? We literally just said the same thing (like the case but don't want to vote for it). You are saying that you are not going to vote because it does not make Oats mafia and I said I'd rather see Yamato lynched than Oats. What is the problem with that? The thing is, Oats' meta is not the main part of the case. BnS laid out many reasons as to why he thinks Oats is scum and I just made a comment that I liked his case and that it had a lot of valid points in it. Let me ask you this Marv: Would you rather I... Say "I agree with SnB" and just vote for Oats? or Say "I think it's a good case but I'm going to continue to scumhunt and push my top scum read" If you prefer #1 it would be such a glaring scumtell. If "not sheeping SnB" is what you mean by the "same view" then yes.. you and Marv are common. But that is not at all what Marv was talking about. His question was written in simple terms too; so its odd how you can even proceed to outright misinterpret the request. Regardless, you again proceed to image based defense... justifying your logic as making a decision on which outcome makes you look townier. (4) Mocsta - More of a summary as I said I was commenting on "piggybacked" commentary. Now my original arguments put forth to you, were separate to the above (yet you refuse to see it). My main issues with you, was that you set yourself up to move to an Oats vote, if Yam lose traction. You reciprocate by throwing ad-hominem commentary all over the shop: never looking into what I am actually saying. And then there is your lone case on Yamato, which was debunked with the about the same amount of effort it takes to sit on the toilet with a tablet to boot. Heres a reminder: + Show Spoiler + On March 11 2013 14:55 Mocsta wrote: I am a good host, so you will not receive a points deduction for prioritising your "scum read" case, over addressing my points against you. Having said that, the case put forth is sub-par: 1. His initial reaction to my case. Disagree with the tell. Did the exact same thing with both me and jaybrundage in nomination mafia (as town). Your tell is m00t. 2. He is playing absolutely nothing like his town meta Your giving a meta read from one game? Are you not the guy that got ripped a new one for telling Marv how to apply meta in Duel mafia? o.0 Fact is: this is a themed game where some are choosing to imitate their personalities. As long as they dont hide behind the personality to fake-hunt.. all good in my books. Disagree with the tell. Whether he plays like town meta or not, is irrelevant in a game such as this. Your tell is m00t (and hypocritical to boot: was yam not "fearless" in calling VE scum?) 3. Lurking and lack of scum hunting Several in the thread were doubting Kurumi before the town announcement? Does this mean they lacked scum hunting in their filter as well? The game hadn't even migrated past 24hrs, and you calling out someone with multiple posts a lurker? This is truly grasping at straws. Disagree with the tell. 4. His kill (?) of Kurumi Agree with the tell, as does pretty much everyone else in the thread. <sarcasm>Why you piggy backing off others...</sarcasm> tl;dr You throw shit over my case on you, using ad-hominem arguments. You then proceed to ignore my case, by developing said case against yamato. The case against yamato is sub-par; much like your justification to vote him, and your reasons to immediately tunnel him. OK, so I give you some conviction points for sticking to your guns; but overall, the effort looks lazy with hastily conjured points to boot. I don't like -at all- Yamato Kill action of a mod-confirmed town; but you, cDgCorazon; are still my top scum read. I won't delve any further into my commentary with you, because you already made it clear you won't comment on my argument, you only comment on me as a person. Again more image-centric tactics. ======================================== Your modus operandi is quite clear now from 4 separate discussions: Its not about hunting scum.. its about looking the best you can Verdict: Probably Scum | ||
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On March 12 2013 18:20 Foolishness wrote: I still 100% support a yamato lynch. I am also on board a crossfire lynch. I was skeptical of him at first, but after seeing his reactions right before and after the lynch I will gladly kill him (I haven't thoroughly analyzed him like I have yamato or Vivax though). I am against a yamato lynch as per http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400204¤tpage=78#1541 Will boogie onto Xfire though. Q: You said you have some familiarity with Vivax... is that meta-read based on "history" or, "because you gave him prior games a quick peruse?" | ||
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