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On March 01 2013 04:49 zarepath wrote:
In this game, I consider being the fastest gun in the west to also be the stupidest gun in the west.
Consider: YOU are sure about Dieno, but others aren't as sure. I feel more sure about there being at least 1 scum among Syl/Dieno than I do about either of them being scum, and everyone forcing them to argue against each other provides FAR more information than YOU going against Dieno.
If you quick-draw on Dieno, we lynch him and he flips bad townie, mafia gets another kill off and we're left wondering if Syl was scum or not and whether we should look into the double-lynchers or the Keir voters for the bus.
If we pit Dieno and Syl, we likely get all day to wait before one of them finally duels each other (giving us plenty of time to react to the night kill and speculate and build cases, etc.), and then we get a pretty good idea about BOTH of their alignments in the duel.
No offense, but you and Yamato are not very high on my priority list for who we need more information on.
Tell that to YAMATO, not to me. I AM NOT THE ONE YELLING ABOUT DUELING AT DAWN
I am trying to come up with a less retarded solution for that scenario.
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Yamato: how about this plan. You don't duel me at dawn. You duel me at high noon (my time) [unparsable timestamp format] IF I haven't dueled someone before that time. That way you get your wish: me in a duel AND we have some time to think.
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On March 01 2013 04:50 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 04:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
We did.
It isnt enough to convince anyone but thrawn that acro is scum No, you didn't. You argued with stuff I already refuted in my case.
No. You just yelled louder. You shouted down any arguments that don't fit in your picture. You're in a tunnel. I've been there. It's pointless.
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On March 01 2013 04:58 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 04:54 Acrofales wrote:
Yamato: how about this plan. You don't duel me at dawn. You duel me at high noon (my time) [unparsable timestamp format] IF I haven't dueled someone before that time. That way you get your wish: me in a duel AND we have some time to think. I'm going to be drunk by then, in all serious likelihood. I may or may not duel you, depending on how I feel about what you've done between now and then. If you think Dieno is mafia, I want more detailed analysis from you on the subject. I played a part in lynching him in Parallel when he was fairly useless as town, and barely scumhunted at all. I see very little difference between his play that game and this game. As I said before, Sylencia is very similar. Useless as town, very sheepish, not proactive. There needs to be more proof than "they're not contributing" for me to go all goo-goo eyed at them.
If you look at my list of reads, I completely agree with you on Sylencia. He's scum by elimination more than anything else. However, he has not been active enough to distinguish between his lurky town and lurky scum play.
Regarding Dieno, I don't agree. I observed PU and remember having a town read on Dieno. However, looking back now I see that his play is not the same.
This game, he is extremely wishy washy.
Compare this game (first entry post):
On February 25 2013 09:29 Dienosore wrote:
Oh snap, early start! Hurray!
I just caught up with the thread. A few things:
- Snarf/Marv's plan to use all of our time to get a majority before dueling seems like the best and most logical path of action. No complaints there.
- Yamato, easy on the trigger amigo. I can see some merit to what you are saying, though. It might be very beneficial for the town to have someone like you who is willing to duel in order to prove alignment, as long as you follow the general town consensus. Could help to keep everyone honest...
...On the other hand, you might be mafia... in which case having you as a baseline enforcer would only result in towny deaths. Until you get cleared somehow, I think we should stick with the plan to just take our time.
- Corazon: I don't know you, therefore I don't not like you! <3 Not sure why marv is putting doubt on you already, but I generally trust him. Is there something about you I should know?
1. Agrees with policy.
2. Disagrees with policy by agreeing with Yamato... except Yamato might be scum and then it's bad. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
3. Distrusts Cora for essentially no reason except to sheep Marv.
+ Show Spoiler [comparison] +First serious post in PU: On December 12 2012 11:50 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 09:13 Foolishness wrote:
Okay so we choose someone to lynch here today. If you are in the world where you're not lynching (and voting to swap) you should be voting to swap a person who you think is innocent. Swap powers should be used to get innocent people into the swap world, and mafia into the lynch world.
Presumably we can only vote for people in our world? ---- but then Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 10:33 Foolishness wrote:
I have plenty of reason. You haven't done anything, you're spamming the thread. And I'm not going to sit here while people derp around with swapping when there's mafia to kill. Why the flip-floppery Foolish? I told you already my heart couldn't handle any more of it  Boom. Nailed Foolishness. He was scum too. Follow-up: On December 13 2012 12:37 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 12:19 slOosh wrote:On December 12 2012 11:50 Dienosore wrote:On December 12 2012 09:13 Foolishness wrote:
Okay so we choose someone to lynch here today. If you are in the world where you're not lynching (and voting to swap) you should be voting to swap a person who you think is innocent. Swap powers should be used to get innocent people into the swap world, and mafia into the lynch world.
Presumably we can only vote for people in our world? ---- but then On December 12 2012 10:33 Foolishness wrote:
I have plenty of reason. You haven't done anything, you're spamming the thread. And I'm not going to sit here while people derp around with swapping when there's mafia to kill. Why the flip-floppery Foolish? I told you already my heart couldn't handle any more of it Are you still voting him for this? That is one of the reasons, yes. I've also factored in Marv's meta read on him and how Fool handled it. Also, he hasn't really denied being scum, just sort of has been deflecting the issue by arguing with folks. Also, my maps show that Fool has absolutely no support from anyone on either world. In fact, he even has some negative vibes from Sandro and Yomato, both of whom I consider to be playing fairly towny at this point. Now that I've tilted my hand, it's your turn to explain your reason for voting for him. This is not wishy washy. Here is the first reads from CT: On November 21 2012 17:34 Dienosore wrote:In an effort to gain your trust so that I can become the first leader, I have two solid scum reads that I feel need to be shared. Djodref: Supports sandroba, though he (weakly) nominated himself. Wants Clarity and Lamp on his team. Has asked a few times to different people what their reads are. Maybe mining for info? Said "I don't think it would be fair for the scum team not being able to kill the party members" Also, put out a hit on a town marv and town Hapa for being dangerous to the mafia. I'd say 80% sure he is scum goodkarma: Seems to be in favor of Sandroba for pres, even though he nominated himself for it. wants sandroba and promethelax on his team. Put emphasis on finding townies, not scummies, which could mean he is scum. Asked questions that feel as if they come from mafia perspective (dealing with towny death and kill immunity). Attacks back at Keirathi after he explains that we dont know HOW the scum kills by saying "scum must be able to remove it somehow" Uses distancing language "town" when talking about possible medics. I'm 70% sure he is scum. Seems to be town hunting. ![[image loading]](http://i49.tinypic.com/20zd73t.png) Not wishy washy. Wrong. But nobody else shared these opinions AT ALL at the time. Sticking his neck out in a non-wishy-washy way.
Now that is establishing that Dieno's town play is not wishy washy, lets check out more of his play here:
On February 25 2013 13:11 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 12:48 Adam4167 wrote:
You can still change my mind, I am not a tunnel machine. I pull out of shit tunnels all the time, as I did with GoodKarma in Chrono or SacredSystem in a newbie I subbed into with Zarepath months ago.
You are right, we have more than enough time to deliberate, I am making my intentions known now so we can discuss it at depth.
You want to change my mind? Go find scum. I'd like to think Ill know pretty quickly if what you're posting is genuine or piffle.
Good to hear that you are willing to disarm, even if ever so slightly. Unfortunately, I am not the best scum hunter. I rely on my maps a lot, as you probably know, which usually require days of information and copious cross referencing before the incriminating connections really stand out. I'll try to whip up something before I go to bed tonight, though.
Woah there, buddy. I don't want to risk my neck. If you no longer have a scumread on me, I will no longer have a scumread on you!
This post has been discussed to death:
On February 27 2013 11:33 Dienosore wrote:Late day at the office. Got back about an hour ago and caught up on the thread. I promised an investigation into the duelers, so here it is. Adam4167 + Show Spoiler +
Timeline:
- immediately busts into the thread with a vigilante disposition and challenges me to a duel.
- begins to argue with marv
- cuts me down
- prods Corazon a few times, calls him uninteresting, then drops him
- tells Zarepath he's given out reads on several players, when actually he has done very little other than accuse me of scum and clear Corazon.
- clears Oats
- supports Thrawn/Keir duel.
- threatens Keir with a duel
- clears Thrawn
- defends his stance a bit more, then snaps a duel on Keir
- general posturing, says his mafia meta is lurky and passive, calls Yamato delusional
- reinforces that his play isnt mafia motivated a few times.
- outright claims town
Summary:
I have to admit that I am a bit biased due to our previous interactions, but I can't shake the feeling that this guy is scum. He seems to be trying to cause as much chaos as possible, then once all the shit has been slung, reinforces over and over again that he is town. He also seems to be exclusively picking on the weaker less experienced players in the game. I don't think I've seen him outright challenge any of the vets, other than town marv (and keir now, of course). It's true that he has been more active this game, which directly goes against my previous lurker meta reads on him, but this is also something he has self-identified and harped on in the thread a few times... It's like he is almost begging us to believe that his activity is a clear indicator of his township.
Keirathi + Show Spoiler +
Timeline:
- disagrees with Thrawn's stance to just 'let things happen as they will'
- says Thrawn is currently his biggest scumread
- puts suspicion on Adam due to his rogue bravado
- tries to advance our dueling policy
- says he is willing to duel Thrawn
- argues a bit more with Adam about dueling policy
- gets called out by Adam
- general defending
Summary:
As I said earlier, I was completely surprised by Adam snapping on Keir. I've gone through Keir's filter a few times since the duel was called, but I still can't find anything that sticks out as obviously scum motivated. Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile. The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn. It's true his activity has been a little slow, but not so much that I'd see any reason to raise any alarms. Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything.
So with that, I feel compelled to cast my vote now. Considering how the game started, I don't think it's going to surprise anyone. ##Vote: Adam4167
It is incredibly careful. Nothing like the happy "I will call out the biggest veteran in the game in my first real post" from PU, or the happy carefree Dieno from CT.
Wishy-washy + careful = scum.
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Not that strange. Everybody thinks he's town. He's active, and he's making sense. Not a strange kill at all.
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On March 01 2013 05:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
As in why didnt you die Acro.
Considering marv died day 1, not likely to be a medic.
Maybe because they hope that Yamato is gunning for me.
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On March 01 2013 05:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
I expected Acro to die, yes.
Also that was an obvious gambit by yamato, unless its not a gambit?
I thought it might be a gambit, but it didn't feel like one.
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On March 01 2013 05:56 Alderan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 05:54 Acrofales wrote:On March 01 2013 05:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
I expected Acro to die, yes.
Also that was an obvious gambit by yamato, unless its not a gambit? I thought it might be a gambit, but it didn't feel like one. Gambit?
Fake case to fool scum into not shooting a strong townread. However, it didn't really feel like it.
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WP Iamp. We'll avenge you!
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On March 01 2013 06:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think dieno is scum too.
My apologies.
Ok I think you are town and that we should stop fighting :D
Unless Dieno flips town. Then you and acro are under serious scrutiny.
Hmmm, what's your strongest scumread?
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That's interesting. We don't know the scum wincon
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Not quite sure what to do with it. I was hoping the wincon phrasing might give a clue about the presence of 3P, so I looked in the OP, then in the PM, but the wincon isn't mentioned anywhere. Could scum have a non-standard wincon?
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On March 01 2013 07:02 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 05:48 Acrofales wrote:
Not that strange. Everybody thinks he's town. He's active, and he's making sense. Not a strange kill at all. Lol, what a weird fucking reaction to an NK.
It was a response to Oats.
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On March 01 2013 07:11 Adam4167 wrote:
So Acro, your proposed scumteam looks like 'Alderan, Sylencia/Cora, Deino and Keirathi'?
I don't begin to assume how this game as balanced, but I have more games then your entire scum team combined.
It's possible, but the teamplay seems unlikely. Alderan-Dieno is pretty weird and I would really have to see if that makes sense at all if Dieno flips scum.
Anyway, Keirathi has played far more games than you.
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On March 01 2013 07:11 Adam4167 wrote:
So Acro, your proposed scumteam looks like 'Alderan, Sylencia/Cora, Deino and Keirathi'?
I don't begin to assume how this game as balanced, but I have more games then your entire scum team combined.
If you want to catch the scumteam all at once, what is it according to you?
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You think Yamato and I are a scumteam together? Lol.
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You may actually be onto something with Yamato. I completely missed the post where he said he wanted Keir dead.
Yamato: why did your reads flip 180º degrees when Adam dueled Keirathi, instead of Thrawn doing it?
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On March 01 2013 07:36 Adam4167 wrote:
I don't discount the possibility.
I don't like your interactions with deino. I don't like his flip-flop on Keirathi.
Him attacking you hours before a daypost that some expect you to die in could be a convenient ploy.
What don't you like about them? I remembered him as a newbie version of Bill Murray and was willing to treat him as such: give him more time to get into his townie groove. If you come out guns blazing against that kind of player you get nothing out of them. My stance on D1 was to treat him as town until I could make a decent read. I think my thought process regarding him has been very transparent.
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On March 01 2013 07:47 Adam4167 wrote:
I expect a certain level from you, and when you place someone in your top 4 town reads that opens with a post like Deino's, and responds to my aggression like he did, I am concerned that you are not seeing what I consider is right in front of your face.
You've since dumpstered his initial post, for exactly the same reasons that I did on day 1, yet after your first read on day 1, he was 'top 4 town' and now hes scum for the same post.
Two ways of reading that post: scum flailing around or newbie town flailing around. At the time I gave him doubt. If YOU had made that post I would have nailed you to the cross. Or Hapa. However, it was someone who is legitimately a newbie town and I remembered making strange nonsense reads.
Two things have changed since then:
1. Newbie town generally gets its shit together with as little pressure as there was on him and starts trying to contribute. Dieno never made that transition. So that leaves the "scum flailing around" explanation.
2. I refreshed my meta read on Dieno and found that while his reads were sometimes nonsensical, he took firm viewpoints and argued for them.
Both of these point to a scum Dieno, rather than a town Dieno. Anyway, I caught scum D1. WTF is your problem.
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EBWOP: gave him the benefit of the doubt
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EPT
