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On February 12 2013 13:17 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 12:58 warbaby wrote:
When did I ever ask Mocsta to stop pressuring me? I've suggested he could post less because he's spamming the thread, but I've never once suggested what the content of his posts should be.
Oh really? Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 13:54 warbaby wrote:
Since we've both posted plenty, how about we not post for a while?
Asking him to chill out in general is not asking him to stop attacking me. You're wrong, sorry.
On February 12 2013 13:17 cDgCorazon wrote:Anyways... Show nested quote +I can't address your other criticisms because they're bullshit, and I don't know how to logically explain this, because I don't speak bullshit-ese. I explained multiple times, in the pre-game, that I would be more IRL busy this game, and not posting every 20 minutes 18 hours a day like I did last game.
First of all, don't say my arguments are BS. They aren't. The problem is that you've only been active before you were attacked by me and Mocsta. After that, here's what you did: Made a sarcastic comment to Mocsta Agreed to LAL and voted for 9-Bit (when there are other lurkers out too) Zare make a case on WoS: "Hey Zare, that's a good case, FoS!" Repeated your same argument on Gloria Made a list of lurkers (again) Said we should vote out Sylencia for lurking That amounts to a grand total of zero scum hunting and no original contributions to town. No one is expecting a post every 20 minutes, but we are expecting a higher quality of posts than yours right now. Show nested quote +
My justification for pressuring sylencia is because his contributions are very minimal, which classes him as a lurker. How many times do I have to tell you I don't want to lynch an active player D1 (barring major scumslips, which there have been none of) when there are still lurkers around?
You literally could replace Sylencia's name with the names of 5 other people. I've hammered this point to death but you've said nothing about what makes him different from the other lurkers.
No, you could replace his name with sevryn (although sevryn is now starting to post now). Not 5 other players. I've pointed out that there were 2 lurkers several times. Again, you are unfortunately factually incorrect.
Please, give me your opinion on Geript. Tell me why you think he is town/scum/null.[/QUOTE]
I just did, and I'm tired and need to sleep. Right now I think geript's contributions are about as helpful as sn0_man's, and definitely not OMGSCUM LYNCH HIM D1 material.
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On February 12 2013 13:20 cDgCorazon wrote:
EBWOP: Scratch the "give opinion on Geript" part.
Sorry, missed that before I responded. I will take a closer look tomorrow morning and will let you know if I come up with anything interesting.
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Let's not post for awhile.
That means "stop talking about this". If you wanted Mocsta to "chil out", you could've said so. Don't try to put a positive spin on something by lying about what it means.
There are more than 2 lurkers:
Mandalor
Sylencia (still)
Glurio
9-Bit
Sevryn
Macheji
That's a lot more than 2...
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Guys, warbaby is getting discussed to death and my comments to Glurio are getting buried. Can we please discuss something new, these are my points on his case to Sno_Man.
- why did he show all of snos post hes just trying to look like hes trying hard to scumhunt, but is the same as if we just read his filter.
-his question about the bolded part of one of snos posts " Why wouldn't scum tell the town what exactly they should be looking for and just avoid exactly these things?" is just useless rhetoric and he obviously isnt trying to achieve anything with it
-hes also defending himself when no case or anything was made against him so hes preemptively getting ready to be accused by pretending to have gotten attacked.
lastly while he made a big case that doesnt say much he still has barely any posts so hes doing exactly what he claimed not be doing which is actively lurk.
Glurio is scum
##vote: Glurio
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On February 12 2013 13:43 Sevryn wrote:
Guys, warbaby is getting discussed to death and my comments to Glurio are getting buried. Can we please discuss something new, these are my points on his case to Sno_Man.
- why did he show all of snos post hes just trying to look like hes trying hard to scumhunt, but is the same as if we just read his filter.
-his question about the bolded part of one of snos posts " Why wouldn't scum tell the town what exactly they should be looking for and just avoid exactly these things?" is just useless rhetoric and he obviously isnt trying to achieve anything with it
-hes also defending himself when no case or anything was made against him so hes preemptively getting ready to be accused by pretending to have gotten attacked.
lastly while he made a big case that doesnt say much he still has barely any posts so hes doing exactly what he claimed not be doing which is actively lurk.
Glurio is scum
##vote: Glurio
Big words.
That being said, I mostly agree for now. Especially on the "Warbaby has been discussed to death" part. FWIW his "plz don't lynch me" dance is identical now to last game, where he was town, but I'm not sure if that really matters. Still got 20 hours to lynch, so I'd appreciate it if everybody kept their minds open.
And I STILL think we should lynch a very-low content poster over a weak scumread. And while your confirmation biases may be strengthening by the second, I certainly still classify most of the cases as weak scumreads (or null). Thankfully, the number of people who have said essentially nothing is dwindling.
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On February 12 2013 13:52 Sn0_Man wrote:
And I STILL think we should lynch a very-low content poster over a weak scumread. And while your confirmation biases may be strengthening by the second, I certainly still classify most of the cases as weak scumreads (or null). Thankfully, the number of people who have said essentially nothing is dwindling.
My scumread on WB is not weak. My vote is sticking to him.
I wasn't going to bring it up until tomorrow, but his suggest to kill Syl was so dumb I couldn't resist.
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On February 12 2013 13:55 cDgCorazon wrote:
I wasn't going to bring it up until tomorrow, but his suggest to kill Syl was so dumb I couldn't resist.
So you have a town read on Syl? Or you think that Syl is a big contributor? (admittedly in the last ~half hour he has picked up but for most of the time WB was forming opinions on him...)
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On February 12 2013 11:32 cDgCorazon wrote:
Now you want to lynch Sylencia because he's doing what 5-6 other players are doing? It makes no sense.
You literally could replace Sylencia's name with the names of 5 other people. I've hammered this point to death but you've said nothing about what makes him different from the other lurkers.
On February 12 2013 13:27 cDgCorazon wrote:
There are more than 2 lurkers:
Mandalor
Sylencia (still)
Glurio
9-Bit
Sevryn
Macheji
That's a lot more than 2...
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Corazon, why would you lynch 9-bit as a lurker if he has 0 posts? He's just going to be replaced. Same for Macheji. This has already been discussed multiple times in the thread, did you miss it?
Why is pressuring sylvencia dumb? He made very minimal posts, so he's a lurker currently (more so than Mandalor and Glurio). Is lynching lurkers dumb? I don't follow you.
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On February 12 2013 14:08 warbaby wrote:
Corazon, why would you lynch 9-bit as a lurker if he has 0 posts? He's just going to be replaced. Same for Macheji. This has already been discussed multiple times in the thread, did you miss it?
Why is pressuring sylvencia dumb? He made very minimal posts, so he's a lurker currently (more so than Mandalor and Glurio). Is lynching lurkers dumb? I don't follow you.
Please just actually read any of the posts I have made to you in the past hour. If you still have no clue what I'm asking you, I don't know what to say.
Not posting = Lurking still
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Warbaby: "All these damn lurkers. I can't even pick which one to lynch"
Cora: "Warbaby you are so indecisive and won't stand on anything. no strong reads. That makes you scummy"
Warbaby: "Fine. I think Sylencia is especially scummy. He is playing like he did last game he was scum"
Cora: "OMG WB so retarded there are lots of other lurkers too. Picking one makes you scummy"
...
I mean, it isn't like your points are wrong, but you are hammering him pretty unnecessarily. Browbeating people doesn't make them play better, and honestly how can you say that Warbaby is legit scum? Yeah he started off really poorly ("I was MVP last game bow to me. I WAS MVP OMG GUYS NOW I"M PLAYING MY META") but still, he has figured out that that was the wrong approach and has (in my eyes) cleared up some of the other issues with his play. I can see him as a townie who just can't find anything substantial to hang a case on. Its a realistic possibility. YES HE COULD BE SCUM TOO but it isn't like he has proved it anywhere that I've seen.
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On February 12 2013 14:12 Sn0_Man wrote:
Warbaby: "All these damn lurkers. I can't even pick which one to lynch"
Cora: "Warbaby you are so indecisive and won't stand on anything. no strong reads. That makes you scummy"
Warbaby: "Fine. I think Sylencia is especially scummy. He is playing like he did last game he was scum"
Cora: "OMG WB so retarded there are lots of other lurkers too. Picking one makes you scummy"
...
I mean, it isn't like your points are wrong, but you are hammering him pretty unnecessarily. Browbeating people doesn't make them play better, and honestly how can you say that Warbaby is legit scum? Yeah he started off really poorly ("I was MVP last game bow to me. I WAS MVP OMG GUYS NOW I"M PLAYING MY META") but still, he has figured out that that was the wrong approach and has (in my eyes) cleared up some of the other issues with his play. I can see him as a townie who just can't find anything substantial to hang a case on. Its a realistic possibility. YES HE COULD BE SCUM TOO but it isn't like he has proved it anywhere that I've seen.
The problem is that in the last 3 NMM, we've basically lynched someone who was lurking or not active. They've all been town. Perhaps we need to think out of the box if we want to catch a scum D1. Did that ever cross your mind?
My arguments against WB stem from more than what you just claimed they were. Please stop ignoring what I say and read my filter. Thank you.
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I'm saying you are pressuring him for something, so when he tries to fix that by doing the opposite you pressure him for that thing instead. It smacks of last game really. I'm not saying he isn't scummy (again, much like last game).
I legitimately am OK with day-1 mislynches. They generate lots of information and are a tool town can use to cull the useless members. Addition by subtraction and all that. Sure, I'd *love* to hit scum day 1 but sometimes I feel like removing active voices from the game just makes it easier for scum to glide like last game where Slay/Glurio posted essentially nothing and got away freely while cases were thrown at everybody who dared open their mouth and actually post a semi-intelligent thought. The fact that our blue roles bailed us out last game doesn't mean that the town atmosphere wasn't very scum-favoured for quite a while. I'm not sure the risk of trying to hit scum by lynching contributors is worth it if the downside is basically silencing town if we are wrong. Establishing the expectation that posting content on a decently regular basis is required to avoid getting lynched goes a long way towards making scum slip.
I mean, you played scum, you know how attractive it must be to just glide if town is actively trying to silence all the loud voices...
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Alright, since it's obvious no one is going to look at my filter, here are the reasons that I've already stated why I think WB is scum:
-Claiming town way too hard
-Playing victim from XXXVI
-No actual scumhunting
-Asking Mocsta to stop pressuring him
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-Sheeping on everything that comes his way
-Hiding in the shadows after the pressure died down on him
-Saying we should vote for Sylencia because he's lurking and playing similar to the game he played scum in
(when in fact Glurio has exhibited the same behavior and multiple people have been lurking)
Everything in bold, I feel like he has continued to exhibit the behavior or has not adequately answered. Everything below the line is in my second case
I want to try something different this game. If we keep LAL-ing we're not going to find scum. We haven't found scum D1 in a long time, so perhaps we should take a look at how we evaluate D1 in order to have a better chance of lynching scum (which would put them at a huge disadvantage if we could get one). We're never going to get better at Mafia unless we analyze what we are doing wrong and trying to make an effort to fix it. We can't just keep sitting here and say "Ok, we're gonna LAL. Cross your fingers everyone". I've said this before, but we need to have faith in our ability to find scum. I'm putting my confidence in scum-hunting into this vote. I think you should too (with whoever you think is scum).
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On February 12 2013 14:25 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm saying you are pressuring him for something, so when he tries to fix that by doing the opposite you pressure him for that thing instead. It smacks of last game really. I'm not saying he isn't scummy (again, much like last game).
I legitimately am OK with day-1 mislynches. They generate lots of information and are a tool town can use to cull the useless members. Addition by subtraction and all that. Sure, I'd *love* to hit scum day 1 but sometimes I feel like removing active voices from the game just makes it easier for scum to glide like last game where Slay/Glurio posted essentially nothing and got away freely while cases were thrown at everybody who dared open their mouth and actually post a semi-intelligent thought. The fact that our blue roles bailed us out last game doesn't mean that the town atmosphere wasn't very scum-favoured for quite a while. I'm not sure the risk of trying to hit scum by lynching contributors is worth it if the downside is basically silencing town if we are wrong. Establishing the expectation that posting content on a decently regular basis is required to avoid getting lynched goes a long way towards making scum slip.
I mean, you played scum, you know how attractive it must be to just glide if town is actively trying to silence all the loud voices... on phone sorry for typo but i think this is important enough..
If i may step in. Both of u raise fair points.
Sno
it does read u are not giving full consideration to warbaby.
Cora
u approach warbaby as damned if u do. Damned if u dont.
Fact is we all want the same thing. Scum lynch day1 or infornation leading to scum lynch day2.
Now sno where your argument above becomes unstuck is the assumption warbaby is active.
Personally i dont think he is. Unless u measuring purely by filter size.
If u gauge by quality of contributions.. I am sorry to say.. But there is not much more in there than the low post lurkers. Heck even sevryn had the balls to bust in over the top of you guys and give an opinion. Whether right or wrong is more than what warbaby has done.
Also whilst warbaby has calmed down somewhat i am still finding him over emotional.
lastly. Sno. Can i pls have thoughts on geript and the chainsaw defense.
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Cora agreed.
policy talk is meant to be a tool for discussion. Not something that is followed through becauseu get no informaion.
It like doing a night kill during the day.
Meant to rely on scum hunting
....or RNG hehe
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On February 12 2013 14:43 Mocsta wrote:
Cora agreed.
policy talk is meant to be a tool for discussion. Not something that is followed through becauseu get no informaion.
It like doing a night kill during the day.
Meant to rely on scum hunting
....or RNG hehe
I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Are you agreeing with the long paragraph I made about reevaluating D1 play?
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On phone sorry if confused.
Yes i dont supporting policy lynch on lurker
Evaluating day1 play is scum hunting too in my mind because its about discussng refinement AND is an opportuntiny for those less confident in making cases to chip in and start thinking logically.
As long as evaluation doesnt stop pressure from occuring. Thumbs up from me
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Thank you Moc.
Alright, well I'm off to bed.
I think the question we need to ask ourselves to set-up for the end of D1 is "Are we going to lynch an active player that's looking scummy (whoever it is) or LAL?" You already know my answer to this.
We need to start to get some direction established because so far D1 has been all over the place (which it usually is).
I look forward to some progress being made in (my) morning.
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On February 12 2013 14:53 Mocsta wrote:
Evaluating day1 play is scum hunting too in my mind because its about discussng refinement AND is an opportuntiny for those less confident in making cases to chip in and start thinking logically.
As long as evaluation doesnt stop pressure from occuring. Thumbs up from me
Considering your and Cora's attitudes, I don't think either of you believe that at all.
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EPT
