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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote: What made you change your mind Fivetouch? I thought your answer to why you didnt want to be mayor was So what changed? This is the second or third time you've asked me questions where the answer is readily available in my filter. I said very clearly why I was now voting for myself. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 11:47 Mocsta wrote: I look at my opinion as impartial. I am not familiar with your meta, and read it directly as I see it. Your methods in the first 12hrs boded well with me, but not enough I felt compelled to say anything. However, your approach now, that you have seen a smidgen of light is off-putting. I cant tell if its because you are excited at a chance you didnt think you had though.. all i know is, it leaves a odd-vibe with me. @all Those with better meta-reads of Toad than me.. what do you make of him buddying up with Vivax? I thought Toad was adamant on not sharing town reads, because it was easy for scum to do? Now he is declaring Vivax as a top town read? Thoughts? I'm still unsure on Toad, but you have to bear in mind that we are electing two positions today, and that we need to elect town. So in contrast to a normal Day 1 where we are hunting scum, it's important for people to identify one or two people they feel are town. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: What does 5touch have done to deserve the mayorial position? Is it because all of you agree with his reads? Or think he is town? Cause all I see in his filter is a lot of 1 liners and not much else. FiveTouch./Everyone sheeping him. Terrible questions equal scum? I didnt know that bad play was scummy play as well :O Within the very quote that you have quoted is the refutation to your non-point. I've bolded it for you. It's nothing to do with simply bad play, as is perfectly clear. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 12:17 Oatsmaster wrote: It was quickly becoming, YEAH IM IN FAVOUR OF LYNCHING JX CAUSE VETS SAID HE WAS SCUM. yeah, which is dumb as fuck. Please provide evidence of this. As far as I can see, sandroba called JieXian, and also Vivax. And that's it, before you made your post about it. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 21:24 yamato77 wrote: I'm torn on this game at the moment. On one hand, I think I am confirming my own bias when it comes to Toad's play this game. On the other, he keeps doing shit I want to call him scum for. I would really rather see him just die so I can begin to understand this game a bit better. It's good, at least, that you recognise your own confirmation bias with regards to Toad. Mostly your issues with Toad's play come down to the fact that you don't agree with plenty of things he has said, and you heavily dislike his delivery, which you see as condescending or antagonistic. These are not good reasons to think somebody is mafia. So take a step back and reassess; in LVIII you tunneled an active player constantly, right up to the moment he flipped town. This is not a game of veterans vs newer players. It's town vs mafia. If the veterans are not communicating effectively, then they/we need to work on that, but in a similar vein, the newer players need to listen to what we have to say, because we have a lot of experience. On January 21 2013 13:05 yamato77 wrote: I'd be most willing to give WBG a pass because I know him quite well by now and I don't think it's alignment indicative that he wants to lynch people I would call Lynchbait. I would say it is for Sandroba, and this Fivetouch character who apparently wants to be taken seriously. This post (and similar ones you have made) demonstrate a faulty, destructive mindset. You were in the last game where mafia lurked and twiddled their thumbs while watching town burn themselves to the ground. But you are pushing the idea that lurkers are "lynch-bait", which is effectively a statement of intent that you will protect lurkers on this basis, and go after more 'active' players. So it's a direct encouragement to lurk for mafia. Incidentally Mocsta looks better to me now for picking up on this himself. The case on prplhz is not merely that he's lurking (else we could apply this to various others). The case is that he entered the thread pushing a policy idea he's said he hates as town, the case is that he came in trolling which he only does as mafia and not as town, the case is that he's posting little and not encouraging others to post like he does as town, the case is that his only major post yesterday was ranting at bugs and not caring about town or the mayor, or a lynch. His attitude so far is mafia-oriented, and this is backed up by his history. Further, you seem to agree with my Oats read. What exactly is the problem we're having? | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 22:28 prplhz wrote: bah fivetouch i say dumb shit in the beginning of a ton of games, might do it in scum games too but what do you want me to say to that? if i post within the first few posts i usually say something very radical in one way or the other i think, i do it to start discussion (works better than just saying "hey guys get talking", providing something to talk about). while i dislike chezinu policy lynches, he was the best lynch at the time, don't you agree? i thought it would polarize people and spur discussion. it kinda did but not really in the way i had hoped that it would. if you think i'm "angry" or whatever i don't know about that. i'm actually in a pretty decent mood. i don't see what my mood has to do with my aligment though. as for oats he could be scum but it seems kinda dumb for him to go for gonzaw. @gonzaw who are you lynching when you become mayor? How do you reconcile your attitude here with your attitude in this game, when you were town? On November 01 2012 07:35 prplhz wrote: okay so everybody joined and then they outed again :/ anyway millers need to claim as soon as possible. if anybody has something else to claim then that's fine too. also, can we please only say things that we mean this game? i'm sick and tired of people making bullshit cases for dumb and scum to jump on just because they felt it was a good way to get the game started. it's perfectly possible (and in my opinion desirable) to play the game without saying dumb shit you don't really think for the lulz of it. this is kind of like lynch all liars except it doesn't have a fancy name (yet). In the first quote you say you often say radical/dumb things to get the game started. In the second you are heavily attacking this notion. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 23:04 AxleGreaser wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 22:14 FiveTouch wrote: yamato, you need to listen to what I have to say without being defensive. From the manner of your posting, and your difficulties as scum last game, I consider it likely you are town this game. It's good, at least, that you recognise your own confirmation bias with regards to Toad. Mostly your issues with Toad's play come down to the fact that you don't agree with plenty of things he has said, and you heavily dislike his delivery, which you see as condescending or antagonistic. These are not good reasons to think somebody is mafia. So take a step back and reassess; in LVIII you tunneled an active player constantly, right up to the moment he flipped town. This is not a game of veterans vs newer players. It's town vs mafia. If the veterans are not communicating effectively, then they/we need to work on that, but in a similar vein, the newer players need to listen to what we have to say, because we have a lot of experience. This post (and similar ones you have made) demonstrate a faulty, destructive mindset. You were in the last game where mafia lurked and twiddled their thumbs while watching town burn themselves to the ground. But you are pushing the idea that lurkers are "lynch-bait", which is effectively a statement of intent that you will protect lurkers on this basis, and go after more 'active' players. So it's a direct encouragement to lurk for mafia. Incidentally Mocsta looks better to me now for picking up on this himself. The case on prplhz is not merely that he's lurking (else we could apply this to various others). The case is that he entered the thread pushing a policy idea he's said he hates as town, the case is that he came in trolling which he only does as mafia and not as town, the case is that he's posting little and not encouraging others to post like he does as town, the case is that his only major post yesterday was ranting at bugs and not caring about town or the mayor, or a lynch. His attitude so far is mafia-oriented, and this is backed up by his history. Further, you seem to agree with my Oats read. What exactly is the problem we're having? So the case on prplhz is due to his meta. What a shame you don't have any on purpose. With a mayoral position up for grabs with its extra defenses why cant we as town have some meta so we can be fully informed of your towniness by comparing you to your meta. I don't like being paranoid but it is the game, even if you supposedly out yourself now is there some actual code of conduct here that says your not allowed to lie? So no you are a nameless, meta less, purposefully information limiting, smurf forever to me, as is DearestSnot. General guide to mafia states "Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence", guess that pregame, you hoped you would roll scum and bet the farm on it, how is that working out so far. Actually from the sheep you have it tow pretty darn good. So yeah maybe you have the experience edge on what other people will take. Instead of complaining that I'm a smurf, why don't you assess the merits of what I've said instead? For example, the post I just made on prplhz. Do you see and understand the contradiction? Do you find it valid, and if not why not? I have been explicitly clear on the players I want to lynch, and the reasons. prplhz has been absent and doesn't appear to care, and there are clear contradictions in his town play and play this game which I've pointed out. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
In any case, prplhz is only defending himself with bad arguments: On January 21 2013 23:42 prplhz wrote: lynching chezinu isn't a bullshit bad case. you're right that i don't generally support policy lynches and i don't support a chezinu policy lynch under normal circumstances either but when you have nothing to go by (2-3 posts into the game) a chezinu lynch is absolutely the best idea (maybe not a good idea but it's absolutely the best idea). the bullshit case i am referring to in the second quote was from a game when some dude made a huge textwall on me 2 pages into the game, everybody jumped on it, i ended up lynched, then in the qt he told me "lol, i never actually thought you were scum i just made the case to get the game started". that's the bullshit i was talking about and i'm not doing anything comparable to that here. i have no idea about this "attitude" thing so i'm not going to comment on it at all. By the time prplhz posted, Vivax had made his candidate speech, and indeed prplhz commented on it. So why the need to also run for mayor on a policy lynch, which he said was "non-negotiable". If he genuinely means it's non-negotiable, then the fact there has been little to go on so far is irrelevant, otherwise it's a trolly lie, and also in accordance with how he tends to enter his games as scum (I showed the thread several of his mafia entrances earlier). prplhz, can you provide me a town game where you started in a similar fashion to this? Axlegreaser, there's no real way to get around your issue with the fact I'm smurfing. You can hold me accountable for my actions through my reads and how I make and push them. My play in this game will stand for itself. If this isn't enough for you, then don't elect me as mayor. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 22 2013 00:26 annul wrote: so, the fact nobody is attacking them must mean that they are not shit arguments. but why ignore? How Vivax is playing isn't far outside of his town MO, even though as you point out it isn't always productive. His activity and level of engagement with the thread make him a poor lynch choice for today. In addition, you complain that people aren't addressing your arguments, but you have only talked about Vivax yourself. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 22 2013 01:04 austinmcc wrote: So, I generally agree with this. I'll back off pushing that point. I've seen frustrated scumteams when one member who's semi-inactive gets suspicion on him early, but you're right, the general mood in QT then is to try and get the guy to be more active. Unsure if the amount of pressure that stutters has gotten this game really amounts to much though, so I'd like to try and get some focus back on him. Really one of the only defensive comments that I can remember is Bugs saying he's often scummy as town. I'm not satisfied with that, and I still don't like stutters play, even if you take out the thought that others might be telling him to keep his head down. Do you think that without that point stutters looks fine? Just looks like an inactive dude? As to your lynch candidates, I don't like the contradiction part of the case on prplhz. Yes, he said he didn't like policy lynches and now ran on lynching chezinu. But I don't think all contradictions are scummy, and I don't think contradictory quotes from months ago in a different game + quotes from this game are particularly strong. Both the policy lynch quotes AND the early bullshit at the start of a game quotes span different games and a couple months. There's more merit to the second than the first, people say all sorts of bullshit about policy lynches, but actively saying you're against dumb/flashy entrances to get the game moving and then saying you often do that...is more troubling. In some ways, you reconcile the second contradiction with your own filter-diving of prplhz, though. You grabbed a lot of flashy entrances, or peculiar entrances to threads, and they were from scum games. It's pretty clear that his play does not match up with his statement that he doesn't like starting games off in a certain way to get discussion going, or at least you seem to be saying that with your above post. You think only scum prplhz starts off that way and town prplhz actually practices what he previously preached? Or do you think prplhz's comment about not liking bullshit at the start of the game is bullshit itself? austin, I agree Stutters doesn't look good, and agree with what you said, apart from what I highlighted already. My issue with a Stutters lynch is that it's very similar to prplhz (bad entrance, bad followup), except prplhz has done more and worse than Stutters, so he's a better lynch. In the town games I looked at from prplhz, I did not find one instance of him entering in a 'trolly' way, as opposed to the multitude of scumgames provided. This is why I have asked prplhz to provide me with an example - I don't think it exists. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok 5touch, I was wrong and you were right, I just feel that JX wasent scum off those 2 posts. HOWEVER, his disappearance since then is not good for him being town. I dont want to vote for a mayor that advocates lurker lynching because it removes the responsibility that the mayor has to justify his lynches. I want the mayor to not be fucking retarded and actually takes some responsibility for his actions. On January 22 2013 01:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok with Austin's reappearance, I am inclined to vote for him as mayor. Why? Because I feel that he has put in more effort into finding scum than 5touch and that he is willing to be transparent and all the things various people have said that the mayor be. He also stood up to lurky sandro early about JX when he couldve ignored the incident. That is one of the reasons I have a town tell on him. I also agree with his lynch target now that I read his reasoning and Stutter's filter. Stutter's posted 4 posts and just disappeared, I feel that as a town player, his start wouldve been continued through the thread but it was not to be which makes me think that he is putting up a front of activity at the start to allay all suspicions then lurking his way through the rest of the game. Vote: Austinmcc cool story bro. Anyone voting for austin is voting for the same dude as this guy. Or even this guy: On January 21 2013 11:21 Oatsmaster wrote: So many people sheeping 'Fivetouch' Gonna be a good game huh. On January 21 2013 11:34 Oatsmaster wrote: So you made up your mind that town was useless after 12 hours? Why didnt you push to be mayor before? Cause you wanted to see how you could manipulate town? Or cause you are lazy and wanted other town to have the responsibility? On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: What does 5touch have done to deserve the mayorial position? Is it because all of you agree with his reads? Or think he is town? Cause all I see in his filter is a lot of 1 liners and not much else. FiveTouch./Everyone sheeping him. On January 21 2013 17:51 Oatsmaster wrote: Who is currently running for mayor other than the retards who want to lynch me? On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok on to FiveTouch, He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 22 2013 02:51 austinmcc wrote: If this is a real question, then it's because I didn't address every point that every player brought up about some guy, because I'm human, etc. If it's not a real question, knock it off. I'd like to believe I'm not for killing stutters for "lurking," but because of the actual posts he has. When I look at the posts you're talking about, I don't get full-on inconsistency from them, or at least what you're seeing. What you are seeing in the second post: Right? That's what you're really taking issue with? That he identifies Stutter as a lurker, says he is going to lurk all game? However, his first post is that he doesn't want a mayor whose policy is to lynch lurkers, because he wants an accountable mayor. That is actually WEIRD to me because I haven't seen a single mayor candidate who says "Let's lynch a lurker." Everyone seems to have actual reasons for voting the folks they want to vote, or hasn't given a specific candidate, afaik. So...that's just a funky statement given that, in my mind, there is no mayoral candidate with the platform that Oats is against a mayoral candidate having. That aside, I don't see the second post as fully inconsistent with the first. If you pull out different phrases, it matches up. He seems to have reasons to vote me besides my choice of lynch. While that may be playing a part, he at least identifies a couple things that I have done/said. When he references me and stutter, he says that he agrees with my lynch target after reading my reasoning. My reasoning is not "stutter is lurking kill stutter." So to me, that goes find with the first post. I'm not advocating lurker lynching at all, I've advocating stutter-lynching. He at least has paid lip-service to the idea that I have reasoning behind that advocacy. You're so fluffy, you post a lot but tend to manage to miss the main highlights. 1) Oats doesn't want to have a mayor who wants to lynch lurkers 2) Oats does not comment on prplhz at all 3) Oats likes your Stutters lynch, at least in part because "...he has 4 posts...then [he's going to] lurk his way through the game" Why is Oats not commenting on prplhz at all? Why is he liking the lurking aspect of the Stutters case when being completely against it for the mayor? Why did Oats attack me repeatedly and tarnish my motives, and then say "I bleed town"? | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 22 2013 03:12 austinmcc wrote: (3) To the extent you like "I'm doing x/looking at x/be right there guys" into "silence" as a scummy thing, Catching up now guys! I would note that for Stutters at least, this isn't really a tell of anything. He's hosting the upcoming newbie game: On January 20 2013 09:22 Stutters695 wrote: Welcome Slay/Ska. I'll edit you guys into the op when I get off work. He did not do this. This game has various similar offenders: On January 21 2013 11:18 BroodKingEXE wrote: Um, /confirm. Sorry I was out of the house yesterday, reading up. On January 21 2013 08:35 Clarity_nl wrote: Life and things, but you know me, I stay up late generally. Currently reading | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 22 2013 03:24 austinmcc wrote: Yeah yeah, I'm fluffy. And you ask lots of rhetorical questions, or questions aimed at the wrong party. Oats does not comment on prplhz, that's true. Nobody but oats can tell you why. I read what you have as (1) and (3) here differently than you do, but again, only Oats knows what's happening in Oatsbrain. I find point (1) odd, that post odd, because he seems to be giving this generic "I don't want a mayor who is just going to lynch a lurker" thought, when NO mayoral candidate wanted to do that. That thought, vocalizing it out of nowhere in the middle of a post, IS weird. But I find his later bit liking a stutters lynch to be in harmony with the earlier post, because it's NOT a lurker lynch. I'm not proposing lynching stutters because he's lurking, so I don't see why supporting me would run afoul of not wanting to elect a mayor who wants to lurker lynch. I'm not arguing that you're simply lynching a lurker, the thing is that his main summary for *him* agreeing with your read is the lurking aspect. I ask rhetorical questions to bring you around to a different way of thinking. Frankly your assuredness that Stutters is mafia, combined with the fact you dismiss the prplhz wagon for nebulous reasons, is bizarre to say the least: On January 22 2013 01:41 austinmcc wrote: I guess I'm just used to seeing prplhz get lynched early on, and most of the games I've been involved in they've been mislynches. Rock Band, looney lynching, are the ones that come to mind for town prplhz getting pressured off the bat but flipping town. I know that I've read or obsed a few games in which the same thing happened with him as mafia though, can't remember names but he claimed cop D1 in some mini and lived for a while/til endgame. I'm looking at him and stutters more, but maybe I'm just overly wary of early prplhz lynches because I keep seeing wagons get built on him that can't be derailed, whether by scum or town. Effectively prplhz gets attacked early when he's both town and scum, so you're wary of lynching into him? Given you were so keen to look into Stutters' meta, can you find a town prplhz game where he entered the game in a similar fashion to this one? (as opposed to the mafia games I referenced). The arguments against prplhz are simply far stronger than the stringy case you have on Stutters. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 22 2013 03:30 sandroba wrote: @palmar (FT) I want to kill this dude instead what do you say? I understand where you're coming from, but this horrible indecisiveness marks all of his town play. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
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