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Dessert Mini Mafia - Page 5

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Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 17 2013 22:11 GMT
#1230
But talking about Lazermonkey is pretty much off-topic right now. thrawn, why not Hopeless?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 17 2013 22:13 GMT
#1231
Ugh, I have to go sleep though I'm dead tired anyway and if I don't get some sleep now I'm going to fall asleep at work.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 18 2013 23:59 GMT
#1356
I didn't think a SK existed (since there was only one kill N1), but it seems like we got lucky with our lynch. This means we don't have the risk of 2 townies dying / night (although it could have been possible for him to hit Mafia as well). I'm also fairly certain he would have killed me tonight otherwise - he was so convinced of me being blue.

That brings with it another problem though. Scum might agree with his assessment and shoot me tonight. That's why I'm posting the best course of action for tomorrow before I'm (possibly) shot.

What are the goals for Mafia?

As far as I can see it, there are three goals that Mafia are naturally pushing in this game:

1) Silence (lurking, discouraging discussion, denying information)
2) Chaos (casting suspicion at a wide pool of suspects, keeping the thread unorganized, manipulating the discussion/vote)
3) Survival (staying off the radar, not being at the center of attention)

Of course Mafia can try appearing more townish, but pushing their agenda is natural for them. It's really hard to avoid at least subconsciously going against the town's good. And in the end, why *would* Mafia do more than necessary (to avoid being lynched) to aid town?

Who are pushing these goals?

I had WBG as my #1 scumread at the end of N1, but actually I think he's town after all. Looking at the events of D2, he did basically nothing to further Mafia's goals. He had a surge of activity during D2 and engaged in various discussions, increasing the thread's activity as a whole. He actively tried to keep the thread organized and focused on two lynch candidates (Sloosh/Hopeless) to gain more information from the lynch and to make it harder for Mafia to manipulate the vote. He absolutely didn't stay off the radar - and was even the center of attention for most of the day.

Jay also had a somewhat similar surge of activity during D2. I'm starting to think he might be just a townie who got off to a bad start after all. His behaviour is certainly among the towniest for D2.

If not them, then who?

Notable is that during D2 a lot of players were lurking / sheeping / staying off the radar (MrZentor, grush, Hopeless, Lazermonkey). I'm pretty certain that there are at least 2 Mafia in this group.

MrZentor - his early game suggested him being town based on meta, but I'm extremely uncomfortable with his apathy, lurking and sheeping for N1+D2+N2. It's actually starting to look like his scum meta at this point. If this keeps up, he's likely Mafia.

Lazermonkey - I don't still think he's scum. Kush appeared very townie to me and although Lazermonkey has made some bad plays, I think he's just confusing things and being unfortunate right now.

grush - totally lurking and sheeping all game. Could be very well scum.

Hopeless - most likely scum. With Sloosh flipping SK, it makes sense for him to be scum as well.

Started writing this a bit too late and running out of time, so here is it. More later if I'm still alive.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 00:33 GMT
#1362
GG thrawn, I guess this was the better choice for them.

As I was saying, Hopeless has been the most vague and sheepish player in the game, so I'm most confident in him flipping Mafia right now. I originally thought that the situation between Hopeless and Sloosh was scum + town, but with Sloosh flipping SK it's starting to look like scum + SK. Scum + scum would have made no sense - I can't fathom Mafia failing so miserably in manipulating the votes. But scum + SK makes very much sense, especially considering how close the votes got between them and how ultimately the scum got away (with the help of his team of course).

##Vote Hopeless1der

Also, I got roleblocked (must be for the final words of Sloosh....).
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 00:38 GMT
#1365
MrZentor, you REALLY need to start benefiting town if you in fact are town. Your behaviour after D1 is starting to look like your scum meta - and I'm starting to suspect that you just put your best effort into appearing like your town meta during D1, but couldn't keep it up anymore. It's really scummy how your activity and contributions have dropped dramatically after the beginning.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 00:39 GMT
#1367
Waaat? Please post your logs, right now.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 00:40 GMT
#1369
On January 19 2013 09:39 MrZentor wrote:
You got me, Xata, I'm scum.


I mean seriously, there's NO reason not to post your logs.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 00:44 GMT
#1374
I know that, it would be a suicide to fakeclaim now. I posted that pressure for MrZentor almost at the same time as he claimed Mason. But regardless of that, it's beyond stupid to deny useful information even if you are town.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 00:52 GMT
#1378
On January 19 2013 09:43 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'm confirmation biased, and have yet to properly make a case, so feel free to call this OMGUS until I substantiate:

##Vote: Hapahauli


Still willing to lynch Lazer.


WTF? That's pretty much the scummiest post so far. You just counter-voted your voter without any reason other than "I'm going to make up reasons in the future". Even then you're diminishing your own vote by offering to lynch another player instead....
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 00:57 GMT
#1382
On January 19 2013 09:49 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 09:44 Xatalos wrote:
I know that, it would be a suicide to fakeclaim now. I posted that pressure for MrZentor almost at the same time as he claimed Mason. But regardless of that, it's beyond stupid to deny useful information even if you are town.

Your post is stamped 2 minutes after Zentor's and reads as a direct response to his claim, in which you suggest he may not actually be town. Also, define useful. Scattered information doesn't do anything by itself, there needs to be a reason. What do you expect is in the logs? He needs to post the logs before he dies, but I don't think we need his logs ASAP.


I started writing that before MrZentor had posted anything.... And it was like a 1 minute difference between posts. Anyway, that's a stupid thing to argue about. Why would we not want any additional information we can get? MrZentor is already confirmed, yeah, so it's not to determine his alignment, but it might reveal some new perspective or observation about other players that hasn't been said before. And it's also 100% confirmed to be genuine analysis.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 01:02 GMT
#1383
On January 19 2013 09:53 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 09:52 Xatalos wrote:
On January 19 2013 09:43 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'm confirmation biased, and have yet to properly make a case, so feel free to call this OMGUS until I substantiate:

##Vote: Hapahauli


Still willing to lynch Lazer.


WTF? That's pretty much the scummiest post so far. You just counter-voted your voter without any reason other than "I'm going to make up reasons in the future". Even then you're diminishing your own vote by offering to lynch another player instead....

Scumteam:
Hapahauli
Xatalos
Lazermonkey


That's probably the most useless suspicion list I have ever seen. Not to mention that it's based on OMGUS rather than your reads.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 01:15 GMT
#1384
Anyways, I'm going to sleep now. It's pretty obvious that Hopeless is scum at this point, but the real task is to determine the remaining ones. MrZentor is confirmed, WBG and Jay had a surge of activity during D2 while most players sinked to lurking... I'm starting to feel like the last 2 are grush + Hapa/iamperfection/Lazermonkey. I really doubt we're going to lynch anyone but Hopeless today so the best use for today would be to discuss the remaining scum and maybe even connections with Hopeless (although I'm usually against that).
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 12:11 GMT
#1403



On January 19 2013 11:54 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 10:27 iamperfection wrote:
im pretty sure hapa isnt scum at this point. I thought there was a possibility of him being sk but with that eliminated i think it is likely that he is town.

## Vote hopeless


You can die hopeless you are making no sense because you are scum.


this guy is scum.
Also because hopeless is too...

##Vote: Hopeless1dr


Care to explain?

I'm actually starting to suspect that Hapa or iamperfection is scum this game.

- Hapa has been unusually inactive / slightly lurky and almost only focused on Prom -> Hopeless so far, not doing much else really - usually he's been the leading force for town in pushing the discussion and scumhunting + analysis
- iamperfection has been mostly asking questions, posting one-liners and sheeping votes so far - granted that his play in LVIII looks similar on the surface (and he was town.....)
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 12:20 GMT
#1404
Although it feels ridiculous for Hapa to start bussing Hopeless so early...

In any case, I'm starting to think that grush is scum. That whole "starsenses" phrase just feels forced and too stupid to take seriously. The way he's repeating it so much also feels like he's using it as some sort of a "shield". He also has done absolutely nothing to aid in scumhunting and has basically just hidden behind general inactivity and the thread having bigger issues to worry about.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 12:38 GMT
#1405
Where is everyone

Hopeless has basically defaulted to voting Lazermonkey in several situations, so if Hopeless flips scum, I'm having a hard time believing that Lazermonkey is also scum. This is of course in addition to Kush behaving suicidally for a scum player during D1 and Lazermonkey remaining calm under intense pressuring.

If Hopeless happens to flip town, I have to say that Lazermonkey and Hapa look worse. Hapa has basically tunneled Hopeless for days and hasn't done that much else, while Lazermonkey has been tunneled by Hopeless for days. I'm also wondering about this post (latest post from Lazermonkey...):

On January 19 2013 02:14 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing happening atm : (. I'm going to the cinema + food for a few hours. Should be back before deadline tho.


Lazermonkey, with this and your earlier post saying you're "not posting because you're not in danger of getting lynched", it looks like you're seriously actively lurking. Please, step up your activity and play the game. You're definitely in big danger of getting lynched tomorrow especially if you continue with this apathy.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 19:14 GMT
#1423
Why am I scum btw, Hopeless? I don't see where you explained that. Just process of elimination? And grush, I really want to hear why iamperfection is scum... You just throwed that thought out there without any reason.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 19:23 GMT
#1431
On January 20 2013 04:19 iamperfection wrote:
Xaltos isn't scum either by the way unless he was extremely clever around the time mr zenter claimed mason.


What do you mean with that by the way?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 19:26 GMT
#1432
On January 20 2013 04:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2013 04:14 Xatalos wrote:
Why am I scum btw, Hopeless? I don't see where you explained that. Just process of elimination? And grush, I really want to hear why iamperfection is scum... You just throwed that thought out there without any reason.

No, I havent explained why, it was by elimination and its a very weak and situational read. That's why I haven't been advocating a switch onto you, only onto Lazer. You're still a scumread, but not one I'm comfortable pushing at the moment.


Hm... There still has to be some reason besides just elimination. Or am I just the "least town" of the remaining players? What is the reason?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 19:30 GMT
#1435
On January 20 2013 04:26 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2013 04:23 Xatalos wrote:
On January 20 2013 04:19 iamperfection wrote:
Xaltos isn't scum either by the way unless he was extremely clever around the time mr zenter claimed mason.


What do you mean with that by the way?

Its tough from my phone but I believe you somewhat doubted the claim and then asked for logs. As scum you would have known mr z was town.


Actually I posted that pressure for MrZentor almost at the same time as he claimed Mason. Then I asked for logs after that. I didn't actually doubt his Mason claim (it would have been suicide to fakeclaim there) but I first pressured him and after seeing his claim, asked for logs. He still hasn't given them though.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 19 2013 19:37 GMT
#1439
On January 20 2013 04:31 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2013 04:26 Xatalos wrote:
On January 20 2013 04:17 Hopeless1der wrote:
On January 20 2013 04:14 Xatalos wrote:
Why am I scum btw, Hopeless? I don't see where you explained that. Just process of elimination? And grush, I really want to hear why iamperfection is scum... You just throwed that thought out there without any reason.

No, I havent explained why, it was by elimination and its a very weak and situational read. That's why I haven't been advocating a switch onto you, only onto Lazer. You're still a scumread, but not one I'm comfortable pushing at the moment.


Hm... There still has to be some reason besides just elimination. Or am I just the "least town" of the remaining players? What is the reason?

Yeah, I read grush bugs and lamp as town. Zentor is "confirmed". Between you and Jay, I think you are scummier. No, I have not explained why, and I'm not going to while Hapa and LM are still on the table. There's no benefit to being scatterbrained when I'm about to die, let me focus on the scumreads I'm confident in so I can actually convince people my reads are shit, either before or after the lynch.


It's useless to hide your reads though since if/when you get lynched, you can't post them anymore. And posting now will be a lot more useful than right before your lynch - we can also confirm that you have those reads and you're not just going to die silently after all.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
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