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Witchcraft Mini Mafia - Page 20

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Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 19 2012 22:57 GMT
#1972
On December 20 2012 07:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2012 07:55 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 20 2012 07:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I really think its between Eywa / JX / Drazak.


CC, I need you to do more than throw some names around. Build cases pl0x.


Ugh, that takes work man... jeeze. Fine I'll do some in a bit.


Sorry bro, faith can't completely vindicate you. I need some substance, and you've had... 1 case this game...
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 19 2012 22:59 GMT
#1974
On December 20 2012 07:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2012 07:57 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 20 2012 07:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On December 20 2012 07:55 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 20 2012 07:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I really think its between Eywa / JX / Drazak.


CC, I need you to do more than throw some names around. Build cases pl0x.


Ugh, that takes work man... jeeze. Fine I'll do some in a bit.


Sorry bro, faith can't completely vindicate you. I need some substance, and you've had... 1 case this game...


Thats more than JX / Eywa / Drazak combined?


Yes, but it's still less than I'm used to seeing out of your newbie games.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 19 2012 23:14 GMT
#1976
Anyway, I have to type up a take-home final. Hopefully I'll finish early, but I'll be gone for most of the night.

Djo, CC, JX, and Eywa

Try to get some updated scumreads and cases in before the end of the cycle.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 05:54 GMT
#2015
Hmmmm where did kush run off to?

Anywho Kush, it's not acceptable at this point for you to keep name-dropping possible scumteam members without any rationale. If you believe Djo is scum, build a case.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 06:02 GMT
#2016
On December 20 2012 06:43 Keirathi wrote:
Vote Count!

DoYouHas (5) - Hapahauli, MrZentor, Mr. Cheesecake, Djodref, kush
MrZentor (2) - DoYouHas, Eywa-, JieXian
Mr. Cheesecake (1) - JieXian



Not Voting (1) - Drazak

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Currently DoYouHas is set to be lynched!


This is my scumteam at the moment. I don't think anyone on the DYH wagon was scum. It was very difficult to put together, and everyone consolidating at the end felt very townie and genuine. In addition, I can't see where mafia would have bussed DYH. The counterwagons were sufficiently strong where going on DYH was not a straightforward play.

Drazak seems like a pretty straightforward scum candidate. Fairly useless, no scumhunting, etc. Hopefully he gets modkilled so we can see him flip.

Between Eywa and JieXian, I'm leaning towards JieXian for a couple of reasons.
1) It feels like JieXian was just stuck in attack-mode all game for no reason. His play can only be described as purposefully antagonistic. Him switching between Mr.CC and MrZ shows lots of anti-town motive, and reads a lot like a guy going all-out to save DYH.
2) When I was attacking JieXian early in the game, he buddied Eywa and thought he was town for zero rationale. He was treating Eywa as if he knew Eywa would flip town.
3) DYH's suspicion on Eywa suggests that Eywa is town. DYH was very comfortable with the idea that "Eywa was scummy", and didn't back off until early D2 when Eywa was playing far more constructive. It reads a lot like DYH was fueling the fires of a mislynch.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 06:23 GMT
#2019
I mean I can totally see situations where Eywa flips scum, but I just find it doubtful given his attitude in general.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 20:18 GMT
#2056
Hi d00ds.

Hi Ghost! I'd love to be friendly, but you're predecessor looked really really bad. Catch up when you can.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 20:44 GMT
#2057
On December 21 2012 03:21 JieXian wrote:
...
Hapa to answer that question I'm still suspecting you because of your ignored questions and your weak and forced points/cases against me, it was no OMGUS (take D1 for example)

I don't see why the idea of bussing was totally ignored. I admit that I have to rethink things but as I said, the main scum I have in mind were hapa and cc, I only added djo in because he appeared to be a bff of hapa but I wasn't sure.

I'll address everything tomorrow if I'm still around.


I guess more of my issue with your "suspicion" on me that it looks more like trolling rather than actual suspicion.

For example this:

On December 19 2012 00:30 JieXian wrote:
ok bye I'm done for the day. Glad to see things toning down.

Even gladder to have seen this earlier


Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 07:54 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 18 2012 07:53 Eywa- wrote:
On December 18 2012 07:52 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 18 2012 07:50 Eywa- wrote:
I'm just curious as to why hapahauli is vouching so hard for cheeseflake when no one else has ever vouched this hard for another person.

Furthermore, I fail to see why we would listen to him given that hapahauli is the only one to change his character profile 4 times (next highest being 0) and he has a scumslip to his name claiming that he is scum...

What more is needed?


I'm not vouching for him. I'm stating that I don't have enough evidence to think he's scum.

On December 18 2012 07:48 MrZentor wrote:
On December 18 2012 07:43 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 18 2012 07:43 MrZentor wrote:
I don't like how Eywa is playing, but I'm sure he is town.

-.-


Name one thing substantive in his filter. He's doing nothing but flinging shit around.


I don't care whether somebody is pro town or not.

I care whether they're town or scum.

And Eywa is town.


I need to calm down. I'll be back in a bit.

yet you have more evidence for Jie Xian? lol... you're obviously scum.


Yes you piece of shit. I have plenty of evidence for JieXian if you ever bothered to read you dumbfuck.


Was about to post a huge lol and some gifs and youtube links but controled myself. I'll just have to settle with

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


There is zero reason to post this other than to deliberately antagonize a player. That's really fucking scummy.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 20:49 GMT
#2060
On December 21 2012 05:46 kushm4sta wrote:
hapa open your mind ok? also day post is at 5 am i right?


Open your mind... for what?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 20:56 GMT
#2062
So where is this Djo case you promised?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 21:03 GMT
#2064
No, you post it now so I can actually read the damn thing and objectively consider it. Because I don't think Djo is scum.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 21:03 GMT
#2065
Also, why post it 15 minutes before? What risk do you have of getting shot?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 21:07 GMT
#2069
On December 21 2012 06:05 kushm4sta wrote:
mostly because im still writing it lol


Give me the cliffs. I need more than 15 minutes to pull a 180 on a town read dawg. And I really doubt that I'm going to change my mind.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 21:11 GMT
#2072
On December 21 2012 06:08 ghost_403 wrote:
GF is coming over shortly, and I'm not convinced I'll get back before the end of the night, so I'll just throw that out there.

Zentor and Hapa are confirmed town. There has been no attempt to discredit their status in thread, so I don't see any reason to disbelieve this. MrZ is probably dead tonight, which is unfortunate, but so it goes.

I'm 90% sure that Djodref is town. I looked through his case on JX. I can't see him putting forward that much effort to try and get someone lynched as scum. Perhaps someone can enlighten me based on his past games, but I believe him to be town at this point.

Kush is probably town and just bad. I'm positive I'm not dying tonight (no one NKs the new guy), so I'll spend the rest of tomorrow really examining this play to make sure that I'm reading him right. Currently, this is more of a gut feeling rather than anything else.

JX looks scummy to me, simply based on what Djo pushed in his case. Given a bullet, I'd shoot him. If he flipped town, I would probably spend the next cycle pushing Djo as scum.

That leaves Eywa and MrCC. MrCC seems abrasive and forward in the thread, but not terribly contributory. I can see him going either way. I would flip him later than Eywa. Eywa has been gone since I got into the thread. That makes him kind of hard to read, but by process of elimination, I'd lynch him.


Bolded is some pretty sketchy stuff.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 21:13 GMT
#2074
On December 21 2012 06:10 kushm4sta wrote:
PART 1 (more parts inc.)

I'm going to make this meta comparison easy for you guys:
here is a d1 megapost from town djo:

So this a djo case as town.
TOWM
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 04 2012 14:07 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2012 13:42 Djodref wrote:


Clarity



Have you guys noticed Clarity ?





I'm betting that you didn't really notice him because this guys is sure blending in

First of all, I would like to say that Clarity is non-committal with his reads. Please have a look at the different posts in the following spoiler.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 03 2012 18:43 Clarity_nl wrote:

Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 16:06 Obzy wrote:
@Cheese
>:l The no newb cards comment seems specifically aimed at me. Not really a fan. I'm not wholly sure why he dropped his argument against debears so quickly - pointing out previous meta, etc, and then it just absolutely falls off the face of the planet. Why? (I disagree with this statement, by the way:


I don't think it's directed at you specifically, but it's interesting that you think it is.
The reason Cheese said to not drop the newbie card is because it's not town behavior. When you are town you want people to believe you, if you come out of the gate saying you're awful and no one should listen to you then that's anti-town.
It also prevents scum from using "omg sorry I'm just new!", the less excuses scum have available the better for town.


My reads at this point in time:

Obzy: Leaning slightly town. He hasn't quite come out of his shell yet but he seems genuinly interested in discussion and progressing.

@ Obzy
Do you think you can get over this "I'm new" thing and give us the best reads you've got? Instead of posting something that's obvious to everyone perhaps post something that stands out to you.
_

Rad: Null. He's being more careful than last game, lurking a bit more. He mentioned he would be more careful, but not in pregame, he did this after the role PMs were sent. He also seems really invested in helping Obzy out as he's the newest, the only one here who wasn't in XXIX.

@ Rad
Why the interest in Obzy? Are you going to use MLG as an excuse at any point this weekend?
_

Alsn: Leaning slightly scum, very little info about him though. He opened super aggressive this game, which is the opposite of how he played in the majority of XXIX. Perhaps the only reason he snapped at debears so hard is because debears said
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 10:04 debears wrote:
If I'm not here for lynch, its irl conflicts 99% of the time. Don't pull an Alsn


@ Alsn
Why the change in behavior from last game? What do you think of debears at this point?
_

Mr Cheesecake: Null. He went SUPER defensive when he was called out about making a ton of jokes, but that discussion got blown way out of proportion. The fact that he's acting more like the way he was in mafia QT XXIX than in the actual XXIX thread is indicative of town.

@ Cheese
You did have some jokes in the XXIX thread. Can you tell us if these were jokes for the sake of jokes or if you used them to push a scum agenda? An argument can be made for both.
_

Djodref: Leaning slightly scum, He was obsessed with policy. Everyone was ready to move on but he kept mentioning it over and over. He's also the person that blew up the whole *Cheese's scum joke* thing, which bogged us down for a couple of pages.

@ Djodref
If you had to lynch someone right now, would it be da0ud or someone else?
_

Debears: Null. Regardless of if he's scum or town, he is getting the ball rolling which is good for us. Problem is... that was what he was doing in XXIX as well and he was scum in that. Older games suggest this is simply his meta so there is no read to be made about his opening. What I'm curious about is if he's going to pull a vanishing act in D2 / D3 again.

@ Debears
What's your ready on Obzy?
_

Sylverfire: Null. Only have 3 real posts to read him on. He opened really aggressive onto debears, even though he's keeping the ball rolling, an odd choice. He showed up way late but Rad pointed out that he is sticking to the same schedule he's had in previous games.

@ Sylverfire
You've only shared your read on debears, is there anything else that stands out to you?
_


So with all that said, I only have two slight scumreads on Alsn and Djo, so I hope they defend themselves as soon as possible.
Even if we end up lynching da0ud for lurking, currently with 0 posts, we can at least gather as much information as possible
Hopefully this gets some discussion going, please comment on as much as possible in my post and point out any flaws.
Do no avoid answering the questions I addressed to you, it would be a very scummy thing to do.


This post is full of null reads or slight reads, it speaks for itself.

On November 03 2012 21:39 Clarity_nl wrote:
My two weak scumreads are still you and Alsn, but that's what they are... weak.
My post is simply to gather as much info as possible. I will end up making a case before the day is over, but I figured giving this thread a good kick would help.

Weak scumreads on Alsn on me

On November 04 2012 04:38 Clarity_nl wrote:
<snip>

I am no longer suspect of Alsn, at least not as much. Although he seems to have a hard on for debears and djo he's making decent points and trying to further conversation. Debears... I'm not quite sure. The stubbornness about sylver's post where he said he has a lot of fluff really shouldn't have been that big of a deal, he just couldn't let it go. Maybe Rad is on to something.

Drops Alsn and is wishy washy about debears


Then Clarity is also using double-standards, he has being reproaching Rad not to scumhunt but have you seen Clarity scumhunting ? You might argue that he has put pressure on daoud but he has conveniently done it while it was Saturday night in Hong Kong. And given daoud lurky habits, it's an easy target to attack.

Show nested quote +
On November 04 2012 05:02 Clarity_nl wrote:
Although caution can be a good thing Rad, you should be careful.
If you don't have enough information to make a read make sure to get more information.
It would be too easy for scum to go: "Ah, I dunno, don't really have any reads" You shouldn't be getting away with this as town.
I'm curious as to any cases you might make in the next 24 hours.


Clarity has been defensive when I was trying to give him advice after his post with his reads.

Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 21:17 Djodref wrote:
Just a remark for Obsy and Clarity, lists can been seen as a scumtell. I know that newbies love them so it's a null tell for me right now. Let me explain.

Making list makes you look like as an active contributor while you are not really committing on any player. From a list post, it's easy to blend in and find some reasons to vote for the possible lynch candidates.

And I also think it would be better for you to focus on your scumreads rather than dispatch your attention. If you are town, of course


The point I really don't like in his reaction is the fact that he said that he didn't make a list.

Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 21:23 Clarity_nl wrote:
Where did I make a list? Unless you're talking about my reads on everyone, which I don't see can ever be a bad thing.
You are the one who pointed out that it is a plurality lynch, and that we should not focus too deeply on a select few.
My "list" forces everyone to comment on it, and perhaps gain insight on others through my observations or sees a flaw in my logic and helps me out by pointing it out.

Yeah, I've read that lists are generally a mafia tell, or newbie town, but this is only the case if they do not contribute.
Are you saying that my post will not contribute?


Regarding the plurality lynch, we have individually to focus on our scum reads but town in general should not focus on only two players. By the way, you have failed to put pressure on me or Alsn, but we were your scum reads.

In conclusion

FoS Clarity






Now this is this game's equivalent:
SCUM
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 16 2012 12:50 Djodref wrote:


JieXan




First of all, I liked DYH latest case against him + Show Spoiler [for reference] +
On December 16 2012 07:32 DoYouHas wrote:
@DP - I think the optimal way to play is to do our best to get the witch hunter to miss. Losing 2 townies, good or bad, is always worse than losing 1. I don't think this is going to convince you, so I'm not going to bring it up again.



I'm feeling more comfortable with my vote on JX right now.

His initial post was rather scummy, the thing to note about it is that it looks constructed (the phrases used when talking about hapa and MrZ, "mindless babbling" & "relative non-chalance". What makes me think he is scum is the progression of his pushing MrZ.

A behavior read.
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 14:47 JieXian wrote:
Hi and sorry I'm late, I'm at +8GMT and I didn't wake up as early as DarthPunk

At first I was really confused (scummy read) about hapa's mindless babbling about 13-3, which ISN'T RELEVANT to anything at all because you can't change anything except stir the discussion towards the wrong direction.

Later I got a stronger read from DP from his ridiculous "pressuring" above all for a point that's completely moot

Djo why did you vote for Mr Zentor


But above all there's Mr Zentor's relative non-chalance to everything seems to trump everything else as doesn't seem to give a damn to anything as townies are well on their way to lynching one another

##Vote MrZentor

An unsupported meta read with some WIFOM.
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 01:06 JieXian wrote:
I was out the whole day man relax. You guys didn't understand my post.

I found what Dp and hapa was saying to be weird BUT I changed my mind as I kept on reading the thread (notice how those 2 points were quite early on)

Based on MrZentor's "uselessness" as you guys termed it, my meta read on him shows that he's acting differently but most of all, if he were scum, he'd have nothing else to do but sit and watch because dp and hapa were in the spotlight and not take any blame.

Meaning he doesn't need to participate and make/risk any reads. I mean take a look at everyone else that's posting, they are all reads (be it weak or strong or sheep reads)

Finally providing support for his meta read. Not conclusive enough considering he is ignoring paranoia (MrZ's most recent town game).
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 01:23 JieXian wrote:
tell me how zentor's behavior isn't weird as compared to 2 of his other town games

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341663&user=137099
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&user=137099

0 reads 0 risks this game, because town has been going the wrong way, because he doesn't need to.


This reads like he is trying to justify his stance on MrZ after the fact. Instead of finding MrZ scummy and looking into him, the presenting good reasons to vote him, JX voted him, then went in search of the reasons when pressured. This strikes me as scummy.

I already pointed out how his first post feels constructed, and if that is true and he spent time on that post, why didn't he spend time backing up his vote on MrZ right from the start?


Here is how he entered the thread casually spreading suspicion over Hapa and DP.

Show nested quote +
On December 15 2012 14:47 JieXian wrote:
Hi and sorry I'm late, I'm at +8GMT and I didn't wake up as early as DarthPunk

At first I was really confused (scummy read) about hapa's mindless babbling about 13-3, which ISN'T RELEVANT to anything at all because you can't change anything except stir the discussion towards the wrong direction.

Later I got a stronger read from DP from his ridiculous "pressuring" above all for a point that's completely moot

Djo why did you vote for Mr Zentor


But above all there's Mr Zentor's relative non-chalance to everything seems to trump everything else as doesn't seem to give a damn to anything as townies are well on their way to lynching one another

##Vote MrZentor


His point against Hapa is not so bad, but it's kind of nit picky. I'll pass him this one because I was really startled when Hapa brought it.
On the other hand, his points against DP and Zentor are bad. Regarding DP, in the early game, you have to pressure people for some trivia, and pressuring people is more a townie behavior than a mafia behavior, even if it's not totally true for DP.

The main point here is that he calls them townies in the same post. That's just a scumslip. because this refers to Hapa and DP.
So he enters the thread by spreading suspicion on them but calling them townies when he votes finally MrZ. So either he has a townread on them, in this case the first suspicions and points against them are totally useless and unwarranted for, either he is a mafia player that knows their alignment.

Let's take a look at the rest of his filter to decide what is more likely.

Show nested quote +
On December 16 2012 01:06 JieXian wrote:
I was out the whole day man relax. You guys didn't understand my post.

I found what Dp and hapa was saying to be weird BUT I changed my mind as I kept on reading the thread (notice how those 2 points were quite early on)

Based on MrZentor's "uselessness" as you guys termed it, my meta read on him shows that he's acting differently but most of all, if he were scum, he'd have nothing else to do but sit and watch because dp and hapa were in the spotlight and not take any blame.

Meaning he doesn't need to participate and make/risk any reads. I mean take a look at everyone else that's posting, they are all reads (be it weak or strong or sheep reads)


He doesn't really comment on the fact that he called them townies. And now he said that they were saying weird things, and not scummy things.

And then just proceeds to tunnel MrZ, which has not given us so much to work from.

Right now, I think that JieXan has the most chances to flip scum. Hence my vote.

##Vote Jiexan


READ BOTH there is a distinct difference. Even though he is incorrect in the town post, there is a lot more certainty in the tone of the case. Town djo thinks his cases are right. Scum djo knows they are wrong.


Already I can tell you two problems with this:
1) You're comparing his second newbie game to this game, when his playstyle (and confidence) have evolved greatly
2) Also, you mention that "scum Djo knows his case is wrong"... where on earth are you getting that from?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 21:18 GMT
#2078
On December 21 2012 06:15 kushm4sta wrote:
when he's scum he knows his case is wrong.

the town game was the last game he got town (not counting chrono because that game was fucked)


Yes, but WHY? You can say he knows his case is wrong, but like what about his case indicates that?

From his last scumgame (mario mini):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&user=284165

He does 99% less scumhunting than he's currently done.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 21:24 GMT
#2082
Oh. That's actually quite good.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 21:36 GMT
#2086
... >>
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 21:40 GMT
#2088
MrZ, could you check or roleblock Djo tonight?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 20 2012 21:44 GMT
#2091
It can
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
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