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On December 18 2012 08:06 MrZentor wrote:
Yet again, people are voting based on whether somebody is pro town or not.
Whether somebody is actually scum seems totally irrelevant when deciding who to kill.
Yeah, but I think he has a chance at flipping scum. Hell it's tempting to lynch him on the basis that the town would be better off without him.
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And I'm not sure why you think he's town. He's just being confrontational. He's not providing analysis, he's not doing much of anything. He's just mudslinging. It's very easy for mafia to sit and spam "OMG HE"S SCUM SCUM SCUM." That's exactly what Eywa is doing. How many people has he called scum in the past 10 minutes? 5... 6...?
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On December 18 2012 08:12 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 08:06 Hapahauli wrote:
This is part of the reason I don't want to lynch Mr. CC. JieXian pushes CC in a horrendously scummy way. Think's he's scum, then places his vote on thrawn (flipped town) to "dare" Mr. CC to vote him? Yeah ok. actually that's false as proven by my post about him, he clearly voted for someone he didn't think was scum last time since no one would vote for his suspect.
Last post on JieXian or on CC?
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I'm going to assume your post on JieXian. The problem is that you're holding some non-sensical and arbitrary double-standard, where JieXian is allowed to vote for whoever he wants because his top scumread is "never getting lynched", but CC on the other hand is scum for voting Morbidius when his own top scumread (thrawn) has no chance of getting lynched.
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On December 18 2012 08:16 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 08:13 Hapahauli wrote:On December 18 2012 08:12 Eywa- wrote:On December 18 2012 08:06 Hapahauli wrote:
This is part of the reason I don't want to lynch Mr. CC. JieXian pushes CC in a horrendously scummy way. Think's he's scum, then places his vote on thrawn (flipped town) to "dare" Mr. CC to vote him? Yeah ok. actually that's false as proven by my post about him, he clearly voted for someone he didn't think was scum last time since no one would vote for his suspect. Last post on JieXian or on CC? On CC, I don't think Jie Xian is scum... He's saved too many townspeople or attempted to.
A half-assed attempt to save a townie is not grounds to believe someone is town. It's really easy (and common) for mafia to defend townies they know will hang. They know townies allignment - it's a riskless play for mafia since they know they'll be right.
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You believe in some magical mafia world where townies are always right about things, and mafia are always pushing the wrong things. This is completely false. Perhaps amongst your friends this has some merit, but on TL this is simply not true.
Townies are often wrong. Townies don't know allignments. They push emotional mislynches, are easily maniuplated... etc. Scum on the other hand know exactly who's town and who's not. It's really fucking easy for them to defend a townie and claim town cred for it when the townie flips. It happens all the time.
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On December 18 2012 08:20 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 08:18 Hapahauli wrote:
I'm going to assume your post on JieXian. The problem is that you're holding some non-sensical and arbitrary double-standard, where JieXian is allowed to vote for whoever he wants because his top scumread is "never getting lynched", but CC on the other hand is scum for voting Morbidius when his own top scumread (thrawn) has no chance of getting lynched. Wrong, You think that CC actually thought Morb was guilty, on the contrary, he publicly stated otherwise. Also wrong thinking I have a double standard, I don't mind killing jie xian given that there is a potential of him being scum, but I won't do so until I check my hypothesis about cheesegrater. All of your claims about me are proven false, yet you still make them... I don't understand where your logic spurs from.
CC wanted to get someone lynched. I told you, a lynch is better than a no-lynch. That's how we play on TL. That's accepted optimal play on virtually every forum-mafia site. If you think otherwise, then you're wrong.
Hell I just read your case on Cheesecake. You misread and twist a lot of his posts. For example:
Mr.Cheesecake admits to knowing Thrawn is town with no indication that he ever thought otherwise - yet he was gunning for thrawn earlier
Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 01:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
But let's think about it if I'm scum. I could push Thrawn, who I know is town, to the very end. We lynch morb anyway. I'm in the clear and can flame about how everyone is an idiot for lynching him.
Town motiv for sheeping onto Morb: He might be scum, i don't want to no-lynch. Keeping my vote on thrawn = useless.
Mafia motiv for sheeping onto morb: None, Morb had a decent chance of getting lynched regardless. My vote would literally only be bad for myself. Okay... I know he's innocent, but I pushed for him up till a second ago? Nice play. Cheeseboard wants to lynch people for the sake of lynching them regardless of alignment
In this post, CC is talking in hypotheticals. He's saying "if I was scum, I'd know that Thrawn was town and push him." Yet you misread it and say that he thinks thrawn is town.
Your entire case on him is based on misreadings, as well as misunderstandings of what's considered optimal play in Forum Mafia.
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On December 18 2012 08:22 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 08:19 Hapahauli wrote:On December 18 2012 08:16 Eywa- wrote:On December 18 2012 08:13 Hapahauli wrote:On December 18 2012 08:12 Eywa- wrote:On December 18 2012 08:06 Hapahauli wrote:
This is part of the reason I don't want to lynch Mr. CC. JieXian pushes CC in a horrendously scummy way. Think's he's scum, then places his vote on thrawn (flipped town) to "dare" Mr. CC to vote him? Yeah ok. actually that's false as proven by my post about him, he clearly voted for someone he didn't think was scum last time since no one would vote for his suspect. Last post on JieXian or on CC? On CC, I don't think Jie Xian is scum... He's saved too many townspeople or attempted to. A half-assed attempt to save a townie is not grounds to believe someone is town. It's really easy (and common) for mafia to defend townies they know will hang. They know townies allignment - it's a riskless play for mafia since they know they'll be right. It's more so reason to believe someone is town than a religious hold on proving that there isn't enough evidence to kill your friend while the same evidence is presented about someone else who becomes "obvious mafia"... How do you think this is a good play? It may fly, but that's only because the town has lost sense of the objective of the game.
What does this even mean?
Listen. I'm saying that it's really easy and common for mafia to defend townies that are certain to hang. It's very common in my experiences on TL. Mafia do it all the time because it requires no risk, and they can claim town-cred for being right.
If JieXian had an actual reason to think that Morbidius was town, I would agree with you. However, he just arbitrarily states that Morbidius is town a bunch of times and doesn't do much to prevent his lynch at all.
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Rofl. Accusing Djo of not reading. That's funny coming from you.
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MrZ, can we talk about JX?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=66#1306
If there's any contradiction in the thread regarding the whole "blue plan", it's JX. He says I'm the only other logical person to vote other than DP, then says he didn't vote me. This is wierd, because at the minimum, he'd have to vote DP and one other person he thinks is town. In his mind, the idea that "hapa is the only person who could be voted" shouldn't exist since he had to have voted another person.
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@ CC
On December 18 2012 02:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I do think we should just say exactly who we voted for. All three go right ahead.
Kush
Hapa
DP
there you go guys.
I'm just saying --- we can't know 100% that the witchhunter shot him. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry. It's LIKELY, but not definite.
It doesn't read like you're frustrated. Also, why would you reveal information that you've been adamant against revealing if you were frustrated?
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Well you missed your first reveal:
On December 18 2012 02:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'll be honest Hapa, I voted for both you and DP. Kinda feel bad about DP... *sigh*
Which was :
a) before all your ranting on the subject (posted above)
b) not very "frustrated"
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Who are your scumreads other than Eywa at this point?
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Oh hm I never moved my vote from Eywa.
##unvote
##Vote JieXian
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On December 18 2012 10:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Hapa
In a way Eywa reminds me of Axle, except Axle was much, much more intelligent.
Hard to say my scumreads atm. I've got some townreads but I'd rather not go pants-on-head and reveal them. Gimme some time to catch up, I just had some finals + work
Eywa reminds you of a townie from a newbie game and you're voting him?
I mean I'm having lotsa reservations about Eywa. Like he's an asshole, he doesn't think, he doesn't read, and he doesn't analyze anything, but he is fearless, and does seem to think he's being pro-town in his own little world. I guess I"m having some trouble determining how easy it would be for him (as hypothetical mafia) to do what he's doing in the thread. Not much substance, but he fires off the responses almost instantly.
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@ DoYouHas
Get in here. Posting a case on MrZ and afk'ing is not acceptable play at this stage in the game. We need lotsa more posting from you.
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On December 18 2012 07:39 DoYouHas wrote:
If MrZ was town he would have to at least acknowledge that his assumptions might be wrong. And if that possibility exists, then his actions only have a scum mindset. Any town making his assumptions could just as easily test them when hapa was out of danger. They would be no less convincing, even if we will be missing 2 more votes now.
MrZ was rolefishing, plain and simple.
Like this for example. I've played a bunch of games, coached a bunch of newbie games, and I have yet to see a mafia player "rolefishing." This is something that mafia are largely scared of doing as it draws attention to themselves. I can't see MrZ rolefishing this blatantly.
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On December 18 2012 10:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Except Axle wasn't scummy at all, Hapa.
Maybe I'm OMGUSing here, but I really don't see a situation in which he's town. I'll try to rethink the situation, but if he's actually town, lolwut.
There's no question his play has been anti-town. It's just that I can connect a stubborn/obstinant town-mentality to it.
More interested in hearing your other reads right now. Work on those plz.
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@ Kush
Where did you go? You dropped this quote:
On December 18 2012 07:05 kushm4sta wrote:This might be the scummiest thing you have said so far this game.
And peaced out while a bunch of people threw shit at each other.
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EPT
