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On December 01 2012 03:07 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:03 marvellosity wrote:On December 01 2012 03:01 debears wrote:On December 01 2012 03:00 marvellosity wrote:
you can rethink it all you like, but at the time of your post you believed otherwise.
that doesn't resolve anything as to where your vote was at the time of that post. As I said, I don't like DoYou's post. I found it scummier. Hence the voteswitch why was it scummier than something you believed had "zero town motivation" Could you not find even a bit of town motivation in DYH's post? Although Dandel's post had zero town motivation (at the time), it made little sense for a scum to do it also.DYH's could be explained by town motivation (not wanting people to sheep) but was way overcast by the scum motivation (make people more wary of following a good player who might be town). Also, I didn't like how he sounded. It gave off a scared town towards Ace. Why would DYH be scared of Ace? Why would he be scared of Ace when there are other vets who are most likely town if Ace is scum? Why does he single out Ace with other good players here?
On November 30 2012 11:12 debears wrote:
@Austin
Dandel discrediting himself does make sense from a scum perspective. It can make others say "oh he's a noob I shouldn't put too much weight into what he says".
o rly
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On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right?
Everyone scared or something?
Ace care to share with the class?
naw, just don't give a shit 
he'll presumably explain at some stage
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On December 01 2012 03:09 debears wrote:
Marv,
I will wait til answer that when dandel gives me a response to the above question
what has dandel's responses got to do with it?
you're fundamentally contradicting yourself and that has nothing to do with what dandel responds with...
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On December 01 2012 03:13 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right?
Everyone scared or something?
Ace care to share with the class? I actually wasn't interested by it. Not currently inclined to vote marv.
care to commentate on what you provoked with me and debears?
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On December 01 2012 03:14 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:10 marvellosity wrote:On December 01 2012 03:09 debears wrote:
Marv,
I will wait til answer that when dandel gives me a response to the above question what has dandel's responses got to do with it? you're fundamentally contradicting yourself and that has nothing to do with what dandel responds with... You may as well let him wait for a little, though I'm pretty sure what he comes up with will be not relevant to the contradiction.
why?
why do you want him to wait to explain a contradiction which only relies on what he's posted and nothing to do with what dandel has posted? why would you want that?
explain yourself, cretinous fiend.
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On December 01 2012 03:22 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:14 marvellosity wrote:On December 01 2012 03:13 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right?
Everyone scared or something?
Ace care to share with the class? I actually wasn't interested by it. Not currently inclined to vote marv. care to commentate on what you provoked with me and debears? I still don't think debears has good reasons for his vote, no matter how many times he references vets or DYH trying to undermine Ace, or anything like that. Nothing...new generated from him, so right now he's still on the scummy side of things for me. As to you...mild town read based on your pursuit of this and your dislike of his votes. There's not a lot of substance yet that's come out of this though. You're pursuing something I sort of did last night, and he's answering, so far, in more or less the same way as he has been. It's more of the same, and so nothing has dropped out of the conversation yet that really triggers a reaction from me.
I don't really agree it's more of the same. He's making post-hoc explanations that contradict his earlier ones, which he had not done previously.
I'm curious you don't pick up on this.
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On December 01 2012 03:52 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:26 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 03:21 Zealos wrote:
Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day. Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday. So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday. I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not. Very well. My thought process Dandel said he's noob in vet game Town - Refer to Djo's first game if you know what I mean Scum - Wants town to ignore him Ok, so I thought of this: Dandel is a newish player to TL Mafia. Newish players usually read the guides. My whole "saying your noob" read is from Ver's XXX analysis. Which, thinking back, almost everyone I've played with is familiar with it Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) So, I was thinking, with Dandel being a new player, and most likely reading the guide, why would he do that as scum? Most of us would pick up on it. It'd be dumb Also, based on that, it would put him in the spotlight (even if it is just mine) See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys
the point is, debears, this 'town' explanation only appeared later and was not present in your mind at the time that you voted for DYH over Dandel. At the time you said there was zero town motivation and yet you moved your vote off him for spurious Ace-related reasons.
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jesus, xatalos has played mafia so often
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xata, have you played town other than newbie viii? coz i can't find one
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On December 01 2012 07:24 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 07:20 marvellosity wrote:
jesus, xatalos has played mafia so often You actually think I'm Mafia at the moment? How did that case of DYH convince you of anything?
the insane number of qualifiers you use that i saw some times in that scum filter and not at all in your town filter that i found.
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you were much more opinionated, decisive, and less wishy-washy in your town game. but i'm loathe to use a single game from so long ago as my only comparison point.
do you have an explanation?
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On December 01 2012 07:43 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 07:27 marvellosity wrote:On December 01 2012 07:24 Xatalos wrote:On December 01 2012 07:20 marvellosity wrote:
jesus, xatalos has played mafia so often You actually think I'm Mafia at the moment? How did that case of DYH convince you of anything? the insane number of qualifiers you use that i saw some times in that scum filter and not at all in your town filter that i found. Haha. I guess you mean Game of Thrones, where I was extremely indecisive and just followed behind others. But if you look at my later games as Mafia, I was very careful to appear consistent and decisive. I also never was in danger of being lynched (unless you count the end of XXVI where I was catched by a process of elimination). But I was under constant pressure in VII (as VT) and eventually lynched. Kind of like the situation is right now... For some reason I play a better townie as Mafia than as a real townie :/
No, I mean the filter that DYH linked.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2012 11:26 Xatalos wrote:Now I've read through the thread, and I must say... I'm pleasantly surprised. There's a lot of information to work with already at this point. The post I had the hardest time figuring out was the very first post in the thread by sciberbia: Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 07:20 sciberbia wrote:Good morning all! I'm really looking forward to this game. I've been thinking about what to put in my first post, and I decided on the following sections. I wrote up this post in the hour since my role PM, if you're wondering how I typed so fast. Please excuse the length: this is my first post and I just wanted to get some info in my filter as well as introduce myself to everyone and start some discussion. about me + Show Spoiler +
I absolutely love playing mafia irl, and I recently played my first forum game: Newbie Mini XIV. I enjoyed the game, and I'm looking forward to playing again with Golden, s0sltice, and Miltonkram. I encourage you all to skim our filters from that game so you have a basis for comparison. Only Miltonkram was mafia.
what you can expect from me + Show Spoiler +
Mainly because I love playing so much, I will consistently be checking and reading the thread and I'll probably be one of the more active posters. I'll maintain my own list of scumreads and make public cases against my top targets. I'll also help in any way I can to organize lynches when deadlines roll around.
what i ask of you guys + Show Spoiler +
1) make reading the thread a priority
2) periodically post your opinions and contribute to the discussion
3) try really hard to be online in the hours before a deadline. We need to organize majority lynches and it's not easy if a lot of people are offline.
to lynch or not to lynch? + Show Spoiler +
Setup A: 1 roleblocker, 2 goons, 1 cop, 1 medic, 7 VT's
Setup B: 1 roleblocker, 2 goons, 9 VT's
Setup C: 3 goons, 1 medic, 8 VT's
Setup D: 3 goons, 1 cop, 8 VT's
I think that there is actually a strong case for not lynching on day 1 in this game. In the setups without a medic, namely B and D, I am pretty sure that not lynching on day 1 is strictly optimal. I think that lynch vs NL is a wash for setup C, and I'm undecided about setup A - that one's pretty complicated.
If anybody would like to hear more of my reasoning, just ask and I'll be happy to provide.
Fun fact: Depending on how wisely we spend our NL, we have between 13% and 17% chance of winning setup B assuming random lynches. So we need some really solid scumreads regardless of how strategically we play.
what I think we should focus on right now + Show Spoiler +
The most important thing for us to do is find scum. However, it seems foolish to scumhunt before the majority of players have even looked at the thread. So I think our biggest goal for the first 12 hours or so is to generate discussion. Then, we turn our attention to scumhunting. Here are two things that everyone can comment on:
1) Lynch or NL?
2) Should we lynch inactive players or let them get replaced?
Will all inactive players be replaced or is there a possibility that they just die? If a blue inactive player is modkilled, will their role be transferred to someone else? What if they are mafia?
At first glance, I thought sciberbia was an overeager townie trying to direct the game to his liking. It seemed unlikely for a Mafia (especially a beginner Mafia) to put himself into the spotlight right away. However, when I looked closer at the content of this post, I wasn't so sure anymore. Basically the "meat" of this post was speculation about the setup and suggesting a no-lynch. A no-lynch would just give Mafia more breathing room and a free pass to do whatever they want for today. What's more, Mafia would then shoot the most dangerous player in their eyes, and the lurkers / distractive players would of course live on. This would be an ideal situation for Mafia to start day 2 with: a good town player dead, but every suspicious/lurking player still alive. The pool of lynch candidates would be bigger in comparison, and Mafia could hide much easier. So, was sciberbia pushing Mafia agenda all along? For a moment I thought so, but looking also at his later posts, I don't think a beginner Mafia could fake such complicated theories and thought processes. Maybe if he was a veteran, but even then, why would he risk himself in the first place? Either he's a great actor or genuinely wanting to help town. Right now I'm leaning on town, especially since this is a newbie game. Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is usually the right one. Another player I noticed was Cattivik. So far he has been analyzing the game, posting reads, calling out lurkers - all in all, playing for town's win condition. I didn't like him giving sciberbia a free pass just because he was the "first to post", but disregarding that, his filter looks good. Miltonkram, why did you vote for sciberbia so fast? Do you really want to lynch him or is it just a throwaway vote? I'm not comfortable with lynching him at all, especially since most people haven't even posted anything. s0Lstice, you have been wishy-washy and cautious so far. Take a hard stance on something or you'll end up as a lynch candidate sooner or later. Suki, unforgiven_ve, Superouman, Eishi_Ki: start posting as soon as possible. Every moment spent lurking is a victory for Mafia. I'm going to be offline for a while; start posting about your Mafia reads, especially s0Lstice and those who have yet to post. On May 31 2012 17:31 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 13:46 Unforgiven_ve wrote:Try not to bandwagon with a simple "I agree with ___". We want to limit our lynch candidates. The voting patterns of Day 1 may end up leading us to an excellent mafia candidate day 3 or later. If we have people voting all over the place, the usefulness of the day 1 lynch becomes diluted. That's not say don't be aggressive. Don't be afraid to poke the bear right in the eye if you feel good about an accusation. Sorry, i missed this, im REALLY against bandwagons, specially at the last hours of the day, i think on day 1 we dont have much information to work on, but we need to have our eyes open for a mafia slip, yes, lets pressure people, if they evade/lurk/start attacking other people whitout a real reason, then thats our day 1 candidate. Also, i like to save my vote to the last hours of the day, mafia is always much more active at day last hours just to see if they can change the decision or who is going to die. If someone wants to be "town leader" please take all this in account, im all in for some kind of town guidance and not a FFA f**kfest. Something feels off about Unforgiven_ve. His contributions so far are "safe" generalities to say about the game. In addition, he wants to move the spotlight away from himself by asking for a town leader to easily sheep, and then he even says that he won't vote until the last hours (when it's extremely easy to bandwagon and blend in as Mafia). As things stand, I'm ready to go for a Unforgiven_ve lynch. However, I want to see your response first, Unforgiven_ve. You better impress with your next post or your filter looks really bad already.
see the stuff on bold.
I also went through 3 pages of your town filter and did not see a single instance of you giving out any sort of town read.
It was bang bang bang this guy is scummy, this guy is scummy, this guy is scummy. Not a single townread, not one. Even in the spoiler you're giving out townreads as mafia.
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Xatalos, the post you're quoting is after a couple of flips, and is quite a long way in.
You should know yourself they don't compare.
Anyways, outside input welcomed.
(code for: a bunch of people in this game need to do some shit)
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why are you calling my vote "no-reason" when I had about 10 posts clearly leading up to it, you donkeytit?
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On December 01 2012 09:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
Interestingly, they're referring to the same guy so I shouldn't have. I didn't filter the guy, I just found the posts I was looking for and quoted them.
What do you make of Xata's case on me? How did he go from "nothing decisive" to a vote after his statement about me not following up on debears was proven patently false the moment he hit submit on the first post?
Unless I'm missing something drastic, he didn't make a case on you, he kinda voted for you and talked to DYH a lot? Isn't that what happened?
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which is weird as shit in itself, obviously.
i'm warring at the moment because from everything i've looked at at his previous games, how he comes across with his votes and townreads in this game lines up more with his mafia play.
Then the more sensible side of my brain tells me to stop being stupid because the only anchor i have for his townie play was a newbie 5 months ago :/
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gonna comment on anything else that's gone on, BH?
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On December 01 2012 10:10 Blazinghand wrote:
wow I'm so retarded please ignore MrZ case
you need to explain.
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EPT
