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On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 14:41 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 14:36 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 14:33 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 14:30 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 14:21 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 14:15 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 13:37 DarthPunk wrote:
[quote]
Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be.
Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried. I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG.Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setupBH was 100% confirmed ! Which makes THIS a fucking lie. I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point. On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote:
Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ?
I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone...
On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now.
But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote:
Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have.
MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play.
Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you.
##Vote S&B On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote:On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote:
Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have.
MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play.
Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you.
##Vote S&B The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die. If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&BWell, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up. This is blatantly scummy. I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events. I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum. This discussion is done. I hope that this discussion can help people realize that you are the last scum. I understand that you are that obsessed to lynch me because I figured you out. How exactly did you figure me out. Because I have a town read on S&B? the same S&B that you were wishy-washy as shit on until called out for your position which was then a town read. Despite parking your vote on him most of the previous cycle? Or is it because I said you have not done any scum hunting (which you haven't) and that you think that is not a good enough reason to lynch you (it is.) Your case on me was AFTER I called you out. Before that you were supposedly building a case on CLARITY. Also I hammered and called out HAPA day one. Your vote was parked uselessly on the Lynch scum was pushing day one. I was building my case on Clarity when I have noticed the post where he saidthat it would be a smart move for the last scum to keep S&B alive if he was town.
Which you are now doing.
On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote:
So then I've noticed that you were the only one of us with a town read on S&B which you based on meta only.
You now have a town read on S&B based on DP is scum. Which is despite you having a vote parked on him fro days and being incredibly wishy-washy about it.
On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote:
Also, I found the way you overreacted to my early doubts about you startling.
That;s when I decided to build a case against you instead. And that case holds...
Your case was that I lynched ZB and that it was my fault for thinking a miller claim was not identical to a JK claim. (lol wat?)
Your case does not 'hold' because it is really good, or Because I am scum. It 'holds' because it is shit and there is nothing to refute and nothing to suggest I am scum.
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On November 22 2012 14:51 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 14:41 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 14:36 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 14:33 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 14:30 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 14:21 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 14:15 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 13:37 DarthPunk wrote:
[quote]
Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be.
Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried. I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG.Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setupBH was 100% confirmed ! Which makes THIS a fucking lie. I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point. On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote:
Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ?
I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone...
On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now.
But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote:
Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have.
MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play.
Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you.
##Vote S&B On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote:On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote:
Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have.
MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play.
Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you.
##Vote S&B The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die. If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&BWell, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up. This is blatantly scummy. I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events. I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum. This discussion is done. I hope that this discussion can help people realize that you are the last scum. I understand that you are that obsessed to lynch me because I figured you out. How exactly did you figure me out. Because I have a town read on S&B? the same S&B that you were wishy-washy as shit on until called out for your position which was then a town read. Despite parking your vote on him most of the previous cycle? Or is it because I said you have not done any scum hunting (which you haven't) and that you think that is not a good enough reason to lynch you (it is.) Your case on me was AFTER I called you out. Before that you were supposedly building a case on CLARITY. Also I hammered and called out HAPA day one. Your vote was parked uselessly on the Lynch scum was pushing day one. I showed that your vote switch from Z-Bo to Hapa was not natural. You were certainly bussing him or preparing for a bus day 2 because people were getting suspicious of him and Hapa would have been lynched anyway because not night killed by the mafia.
It was not natural to vote for the person I had last called scummiest in my death post? OMG if you are town you are terrible.
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EBWOP: I also hate the way that you attack me for some actions that I cannot really address because I don't really know why thrawn was having his vote against you. But he had pinned you because your play didn't fit you town meta D1 and he was right about it. I should have trusted thrawn judgement earlier but the problem is that nobody was really looking at you because you were the hammer vote.
Bussing D1 exists guys !
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On November 15 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:37 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote:
DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you. I just did. more How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong. So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum. Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town. He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it. BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought. Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon. Also. How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss. BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie.
On November 15 2012 10:53 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote:##UnvoteYeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears Scum. YOu just tried to form a band wagon on me for this very thing you are doing right now. You are fucking derailing the fucking lynch and there is no way in hell debears is going to be lynched. Also town hapa would never do this so iam now talking to Scum hapa whom I dislike.
On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent
On November 15 2012 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:
##Unvote
##vote: HAPA
How the fuck is that 'unnatural'?
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On November 22 2012 14:57 Djodref wrote:
EBWOP: I also hate the way that you attack me for some actions that I cannot really address because I don't really know why thrawn was having his vote against you. But he had pinned you because your play didn't fit you town meta D1 and he was right about it. I should have trusted thrawn judgement earlier but the problem is that nobody was really looking at you because you were the hammer vote.
Bussing D1 exists guys !
So you don't know why he was pushing me but you should have trusted his judgement earlier?
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On November 22 2012 14:54 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 14:41 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 14:36 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 14:33 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 14:30 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 14:21 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 14:15 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote:[quote] I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG.Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setupBH was 100% confirmed ! Which makes THIS a fucking lie. I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point. On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote:
Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ?
I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone...
On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now.
But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote:
Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts.
I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have.
MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play.
Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you.
##Vote S&B On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote:On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote:
[quote]
The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die.
If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&BWell, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up. This is blatantly scummy. I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events. I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum. This discussion is done. I hope that this discussion can help people realize that you are the last scum. I understand that you are that obsessed to lynch me because I figured you out. How exactly did you figure me out. Because I have a town read on S&B? the same S&B that you were wishy-washy as shit on until called out for your position which was then a town read. Despite parking your vote on him most of the previous cycle? Or is it because I said you have not done any scum hunting (which you haven't) and that you think that is not a good enough reason to lynch you (it is.) Your case on me was AFTER I called you out. Before that you were supposedly building a case on CLARITY. Also I hammered and called out HAPA day one. Your vote was parked uselessly on the Lynch scum was pushing day one. I was building my case on Clarity when I have noticed the post where he saidthat it would be a smart move for the last scum to keep S&B alive if he was town. Which you are now doing. Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote:
So then I've noticed that you were the only one of us with a town read on S&B which you based on meta only.
You now have a town read on S&B based on DP is scum. Which is despite you having a vote parked on him fro days and being incredibly wishy-washy about it. Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote:
Also, I found the way you overreacted to my early doubts about you startling.
That;s when I decided to build a case against you instead. And that case holds...
Your case was that I lynched ZB and that it was my fault for thinking a miller claim was not identical to a JK claim. (lol wat?) Your case does not 'hold' because it is really good, or Because I am scum. It 'holds' because it is shit and there is nothing to refute and nothing to suggest I am scum.
It's not for you to decide if my case holds or not. You should have been able to sympathize with Z-Bo situation.
I'm still waiting for everybody comments on my case against DP
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This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you.
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On November 22 2012 14:59 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 14:57 Djodref wrote:
EBWOP: I also hate the way that you attack me for some actions that I cannot really address because I don't really know why thrawn was having his vote against you. But he had pinned you because your play didn't fit you town meta D1 and he was right about it. I should have trusted thrawn judgement earlier but the problem is that nobody was really looking at you because you were the hammer vote.
Bussing D1 exists guys ! So you don't know why he was pushing me but you should have trusted his judgement earlier?
I don't trust meta. I think it is only the icing on the cake to perfect case but it shouldn't hold so much value.
You have used meta at your advantage a lot in this game and yet you have failed to bring my meta against me. I'd like to emphasize this point.
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On November 22 2012 14:58 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:37 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote:
DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you. I just did. more How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong. So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum. Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town. He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it. BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought. Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon. Also. How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss. BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:53 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote:##UnvoteYeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears Scum. YOu just tried to form a band wagon on me for this very thing you are doing right now. You are fucking derailing the fucking lynch and there is no way in hell debears is going to be lynched. Also town hapa would never do this so iam now talking to Scum hapa whom I dislike. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent How the fuck is that 'unnatural'?
It's not natural because you are using association cases before the flip. Your reason for voting Hapa is that he tries to derail Z-Boson lynch and that he is "obviously bussing" Z-Boson when Z-Boson "obviously plants WIFOM" to protect Hapa for after the lynch. You wanted to lynch Z-Bo and you finally vote in the same direction as him, that's not natural.
Moreover, I don't see town DP doing association cases before flip.
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On November 22 2012 15:01 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 14:59 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 14:57 Djodref wrote:
EBWOP: I also hate the way that you attack me for some actions that I cannot really address because I don't really know why thrawn was having his vote against you. But he had pinned you because your play didn't fit you town meta D1 and he was right about it. I should have trusted thrawn judgement earlier but the problem is that nobody was really looking at you because you were the hammer vote.
Bussing D1 exists guys ! So you don't know why he was pushing me but you should have trusted his judgement earlier? I don't trust meta. I think it is only the icing on the cake to perfect case but it shouldn't hold so much value. You have used meta at your advantage a lot in this game and yet you have failed to bring my meta against me. I'd like to emphasize this point.
On November 22 2012 15:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 14:58 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:37 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote:
DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you. I just did. more How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong. So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum. Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town. He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it. BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought. Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon. Also. How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss. BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie. On November 15 2012 10:53 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote:##UnvoteYeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears Scum. YOu just tried to form a band wagon on me for this very thing you are doing right now. You are fucking derailing the fucking lynch and there is no way in hell debears is going to be lynched. Also town hapa would never do this so iam now talking to Scum hapa whom I dislike. On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent On November 15 2012 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:
##Unvote
##vote: HAPA
How the fuck is that 'unnatural'? It's not natural because you are using association cases before the flip. Your reason for voting Hapa is that he tries to derail Z-Boson lynch and that he is "obviously bussing" Z-Boson when Z-Boson "obviously plants WIFOM" to protect Hapa for after the lynch. You wanted to lynch Z-Bo and you finally vote in the same direction as him, that's not natural. Moreover, I don't see town DP doing association cases before flip.
Cool story bro. Also read NMMXIV.
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On November 22 2012 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:
This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you.
actually you guys will be responding to each other for what might be the next four or so days so you better get used to it.
Pray to god S&B is scum
if not we are going to be getting real comfy with each other .
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On November 22 2012 15:47 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:
This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you. actually you guys will be responding to each other for what might be the next four or so days so you better get used to it. Pray to god S&B is scum if not we are going to be getting real comfy with each other .
ROFL. I am happy to respond to him on his scum hunting but the problem is that it doesn't exist.
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On November 22 2012 15:47 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:
This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you. actually you guys will be responding to each other for what might be the next four or so days so you better get used to it. Pray to god S&B is scum if not we are going to be getting real comfy with each other .
@ iamp
Is this really your conclusion when you see DP and me going after each other throat like this ?
So, you are saying that both of us are town and we are both stupid for giving a town read on the last remaining scum ?
I would like you to understand first that it is obvious that one of us has to be scum.
Then, I would be glad if you could understand that DP has to be today lynch if we ever want to win this game.
I'm still waiting for your comments on my case against DP.
For reference you can find it in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2012 02:26 Djodref wrote:
DarthPunk
Part I --- Bussing Hapa
During D1, DarthPunk has shown interest mainly in the persons of Clarity and Z-Boson. His interactions with Hapa were limited. As a reminder, please find here his famous "last will" post before getting almost lynched. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote:
I am flipping town.
Lynch Z-Bo and clarity.
BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely.
Marv is 100% town
Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3
Perfection town.
Crossfire town
S&B town
Hopeless null
Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game
GO town!!! Hapa needs to be looked closely at. DP has mentioned previously that he wouldn't vote for Hapa or marv D1 here + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:
<snip>
Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose.
. Please also note that he gives a town read on Crossfire among other town reads. So, Hapa is not a good lynch for today while Z-Bo is. And yet, after "realizing" that Hapa is scum while BH, debears and iamp started to threw their FoS around. We have Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. WIFOM I don't understand how you can come with the idea that your top scumread is planting WIFOM bombs. I think that his last minute vote was pressed by Hapa in the scumQT. What I find mostly interesting is his reaction afterward. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:25 DarthPunk wrote:
<snip>
You are far from confiremd ZB and your last 'will' was a WIFOM bomb if I ever saw it.
I am calling BH, HAPA, ZB team right now. So basically, BH and ZB have bussed Hapa for sure but -> Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote:
Also I am confirmed town. SO suck it, all of you. Excellent double standards. He is confirmed town because his lynch was pushed by scum and he lynched Hapa but ZB and BH are not at all in the same position, especially ZB here, and have obviously bussed. For your information, he retracts himself afterwards on BH because he certainly doesn't want to push a lynch on a JK.
Part II --- The Lynch of Z-BoSon
I cannot emphasize enough how stupid Z-BosoN lynch was. I feel very sorry for not having been here in the thread the last week-end but IRL stuff prevails, especially saturday nights. Anyway, I have tried to explain to DP that he was using double standards regarding ZB and BH but I've been called an idiot for it. Here is the post for reference Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 15:29 Djodref wrote:@ DarthPunkLet's look at the two following players Blazinghands- uncontested JK claim
- lynched Hapa
- shows no sign of town play
Yet he is the last on your lynch list Z-BosoN- uncontested miller claim
- lynched Hapa
- his meta speaks strongly against him but his defense for this makes sense
You want to lynch him today The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ? But let's also take a look at the similarities between Z-Bo and DP at that time Z-BoSoN- Has been almost lynched with confirmed scum votes against him
- Has lynched Hapa last minute
DP- Has been almost lynched with confirmed scum votes against him
- Has lynched Hapa last minute
- Feels confirmed town for it
I don't understand how town DP could not sympathize with Z-BosoN at this point and has no doubts at all about his alignment. I really don't understand how he could not have at least doubts about it. Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 11:21 DarthPunk wrote:On November 17 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote:Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote:All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have: YourHarryExtremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe: I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place... Mega power WIFOM.
Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante.
What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage.
STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk.
He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going: But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP. ... and more .... I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town. My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore. Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day. JhuytHe is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything. The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum.
##Vote: Shady Sands
I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later. Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK: When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum.
The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.
I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with. GolbatBeastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is. goodkarma and DarthPunkI wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted. Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well. On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:My current lists of suspects stands as: 1) thrawn2112
2) YourHarry
3) Shady SandsDue to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history: GolbatHas said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM. Onward. StuttersHe begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info. So that leaves... JHyutWho begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back: + Show Spoiler +
You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with:
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun.
However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters.
Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut?
Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of:
1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut.
2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat.
3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner.
I find this Highly Suspicious.
That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with ##Vote JHuytPS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough. Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1! Here is Z-Boson this game On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts: On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote:
I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him.
I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though.
Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy.
Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind. Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here: On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote:On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote:
Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now. I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this. Anyway, I like this case by marv. + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote:@goodkarmaWell that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote:Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat:You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote:
@YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read  ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry
SolarSail (0): YourHarry
thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat
goodkarma (0): YourHarry
Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson
Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote:Regarding YourHarry:Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: - First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. - YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. - The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. - On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +
Final Vote Count:
Thrawn2112 (5): DarthPunk, Golbat, Solarsail, goodkarma, YourHarry, Z-BosoN, Obvious.660, Solarsail, YourHarry
Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, thrawn2112, Solarsail
YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695
goodkarma (0): Obvious.660
Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry
YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read.
##Unvote
##Vote: YourHarry
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated.
Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote:
Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat
Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar
GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out  Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson. ##Vote Z-boson That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says. On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote:
Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter. So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow.
thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back. Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless. marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL. On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:On iampI hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is: On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote:On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:
Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his. do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games. What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird. I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece".
That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post. Thrawn, however, is unusually inactive. I remember him as townie being much, much more active than this. He's actually managed to make one entrance post: [ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=19#361 ]. Shows some suspicions, ask some questions, and is gone like the wind. debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this: On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote:
I don't understand why it's scum play.
1. Believes miller claim
2. Later decides he's scummy
The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it? Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong. Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised.
@debearsI'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast: 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him
2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote
-note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it. Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB. You'll also note his town play (GSL III) is totes different Yes. His town play is very, very different in pretty much the exact way you mentioned in your case against him. There is no doubt in my mind that ZB is the last scum. Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 10:19 DarthPunk wrote:On November 18 2012 10:17 iamperfection wrote:On November 18 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:
Nah. I want ZB to flip. Then if the game is still going we can check out that wall of text of his. its not that long read it bro I did read it. I still think he is scum. If he is town it holds more value for me than it does currently. It looks exactly how he thinks it would. A mechanism to escape from his lynch. It only becomes useful when he dies. There is no one I want to lynch over ZB. And the only person I would consider is clarity. The thing that I really don't like is his insistence on Z-BosoN meta. That was DarthPunk main point against Z-Boson, please check the conclusions for all his cases and you can find something like "this is not how town Z-B plays". And I really don't like this because Z-Bo had given a reasonable and honest explanation for the change in his meta and has given us elements to back it up. These points show that DarthPunk was using double-standards and confirmation bias wrt Z-Boson.
Part III --- The Comeback of the Scum
After Z-Boson flips, DarthPunk has been quiet for a while at the exception of a few posts. I found this one which could be the perfect post to set up a series of mislynches. Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote:
lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this.THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything. Before attacking me, he has misinterpreted and twisted my posts and accused me to push lynch baits. I want you to understand that the lynch bait is me, and that scum DP is pushing my mislynch right now. I know I look bad because of the setup speculation but I was honestly thinking that it would solve the game. And I hope you realize that it could have if debears had lived with green or red checks to share with us. Anyway, I've given strong townreads on Kickstart and Iamp here in this post Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote:
<snip>
@ Hopeless
At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart.
Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch.
Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt.
I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion.
and I still get post like this from DP Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote:You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 22:11 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 22:08 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town Here is why he could be scum I think he is newbie town. Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read. Either way he is not reading the thread properly or he wants to discredit me while my attention is over him. Our exchanges about Kickstart clearly showed that he is twisting my stance about Kickstart, which has been clear since the beginning.
Conclusion
Bussing Hapa- Z-Bo is his top scumread but chose to lynch who Z-Bo is voting because it's obviously WIFOM
- Last minute lynch of Hapa when he said that he would not lynch him
- Takes all the town credit and accuses BH and Z-Bo (town and town) of bussing
Z-Boson lynch- Double standards between Z-Bo and BH
- No sympathy with Z-Bo, which had been also pushed a lynch at the end of D1
- The core of the cases was the meta part, which Z-Bo had a reasonable defense for
- Shows no doubt about the fact that Z-Bo is going to flip scum
The Comeback- Fairly inactive even after the end of the Acme game
- Shows no doubt about the fact that I am scum
- Presents himself as a lynch bait before any case made against him
- Misinterpreting my posts and taking advantage of the fact that I was not scumhunting
##Unvote
##Vote DartPunk
|
im just pointing out the reality of the situation djo
as for your case i will probally respond to after thanksgiving so well sorry.
I will tell you that i dont really care much for your point that he didn't have much of a reason for voting for hapa. Nobody had a great reason(it was a gamble somewhat) for voting for hapa but i will take a closer look when i have time.
|
On November 22 2012 16:01 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 15:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:
This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you. actually you guys will be responding to each other for what might be the next four or so days so you better get used to it. Pray to god S&B is scum if not we are going to be getting real comfy with each other . @ iampIs this really your conclusion when you see DP and me going after each other throat like this ? So, you are saying that both of us are town and we are both stupid for giving a town read on the last remaining scum ? I would like you to understand first that it is obvious that one of us has to be scum. Then, I would be glad if you could understand that DP has to be today lynch if we ever want to win this game. I'm still waiting for your comments on my case against DP. For reference you can find it in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2012 02:26 Djodref wrote:
DarthPunk
Part I --- Bussing Hapa
During D1, DarthPunk has shown interest mainly in the persons of Clarity and Z-Boson. His interactions with Hapa were limited. As a reminder, please find here his famous "last will" post before getting almost lynched. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote:
I am flipping town.
Lynch Z-Bo and clarity.
BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely.
Marv is 100% town
Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3
Perfection town.
Crossfire town
S&B town
Hopeless null
Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game
GO town!!! Hapa needs to be looked closely at. DP has mentioned previously that he wouldn't vote for Hapa or marv D1 here + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:
<snip>
Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose.
. Please also note that he gives a town read on Crossfire among other town reads. So, Hapa is not a good lynch for today while Z-Bo is. And yet, after "realizing" that Hapa is scum while BH, debears and iamp started to threw their FoS around. We have Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. WIFOM I don't understand how you can come with the idea that your top scumread is planting WIFOM bombs. I think that his last minute vote was pressed by Hapa in the scumQT. What I find mostly interesting is his reaction afterward. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:25 DarthPunk wrote:
<snip>
You are far from confiremd ZB and your last 'will' was a WIFOM bomb if I ever saw it.
I am calling BH, HAPA, ZB team right now. So basically, BH and ZB have bussed Hapa for sure but -> Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote:
Also I am confirmed town. SO suck it, all of you. Excellent double standards. He is confirmed town because his lynch was pushed by scum and he lynched Hapa but ZB and BH are not at all in the same position, especially ZB here, and have obviously bussed. For your information, he retracts himself afterwards on BH because he certainly doesn't want to push a lynch on a JK.
Part II --- The Lynch of Z-BoSon
I cannot emphasize enough how stupid Z-BosoN lynch was. I feel very sorry for not having been here in the thread the last week-end but IRL stuff prevails, especially saturday nights. Anyway, I have tried to explain to DP that he was using double standards regarding ZB and BH but I've been called an idiot for it. Here is the post for reference Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 15:29 Djodref wrote:@ DarthPunkLet's look at the two following players Blazinghands- uncontested JK claim
- lynched Hapa
- shows no sign of town play
Yet he is the last on your lynch list Z-BosoN- uncontested miller claim
- lynched Hapa
- his meta speaks strongly against him but his defense for this makes sense
You want to lynch him today The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ? But let's also take a look at the similarities between Z-Bo and DP at that time Z-BoSoN- Has been almost lynched with confirmed scum votes against him
- Has lynched Hapa last minute
DP- Has been almost lynched with confirmed scum votes against him
- Has lynched Hapa last minute
- Feels confirmed town for it
I don't understand how town DP could not sympathize with Z-BosoN at this point and has no doubts at all about his alignment. I really don't understand how he could not have at least doubts about it. Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 11:21 DarthPunk wrote:On November 17 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote:Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote:All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have: YourHarryExtremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe: I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place... Mega power WIFOM.
Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante.
What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage.
STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk.
He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going: But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP. ... and more .... I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town. My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore. Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day. JhuytHe is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything. The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum.
##Vote: Shady Sands
I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later. Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK: When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum.
The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.
I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with. GolbatBeastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is. goodkarma and DarthPunkI wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted. Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well. On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:My current lists of suspects stands as: 1) thrawn2112
2) YourHarry
3) Shady SandsDue to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history: GolbatHas said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM. Onward. StuttersHe begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info. So that leaves... JHyutWho begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back: + Show Spoiler +
You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with:
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun.
However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters.
Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut?
Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of:
1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut.
2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat.
3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner.
I find this Highly Suspicious.
That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with ##Vote JHuytPS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough. Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1! Here is Z-Boson this game On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts: On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote:
I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him.
I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though.
Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy.
Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind. Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here: On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote:On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote:
Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now. I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this. Anyway, I like this case by marv. + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote:@goodkarmaWell that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote:Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat:You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote:
@YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry
SolarSail (0): YourHarry
thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat
goodkarma (0): YourHarry
Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson
Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote:Regarding YourHarry:Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: - First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. - YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. - The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. - On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +
Final Vote Count:
Thrawn2112 (5): DarthPunk, Golbat, Solarsail, goodkarma, YourHarry, Z-BosoN, Obvious.660, Solarsail, YourHarry
Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, thrawn2112, Solarsail
YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695
goodkarma (0): Obvious.660
Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry
YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read.
##Unvote
##Vote: YourHarry
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated.
Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote:
Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat
Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar
GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson. ##Vote Z-boson That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says. On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote:
Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter. So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow.
thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back. Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless. marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL. On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:On iampI hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is: On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote:On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:
Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his. do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games. What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird. I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece".
That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post. Thrawn, however, is unusually inactive. I remember him as townie being much, much more active than this. He's actually managed to make one entrance post: [ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=19#361 ]. Shows some suspicions, ask some questions, and is gone like the wind. debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this: On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote:
I don't understand why it's scum play.
1. Believes miller claim
2. Later decides he's scummy
The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it? Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong. Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised.
@debearsI'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast: 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him
2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote
-note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it. Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB. You'll also note his town play (GSL III) is totes different Yes. His town play is very, very different in pretty much the exact way you mentioned in your case against him. There is no doubt in my mind that ZB is the last scum. Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 10:19 DarthPunk wrote:On November 18 2012 10:17 iamperfection wrote:On November 18 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:
Nah. I want ZB to flip. Then if the game is still going we can check out that wall of text of his. its not that long read it bro I did read it. I still think he is scum. If he is town it holds more value for me than it does currently. It looks exactly how he thinks it would. A mechanism to escape from his lynch. It only becomes useful when he dies. There is no one I want to lynch over ZB. And the only person I would consider is clarity. The thing that I really don't like is his insistence on Z-BosoN meta. That was DarthPunk main point against Z-Boson, please check the conclusions for all his cases and you can find something like "this is not how town Z-B plays". And I really don't like this because Z-Bo had given a reasonable and honest explanation for the change in his meta and has given us elements to back it up. These points show that DarthPunk was using double-standards and confirmation bias wrt Z-Boson.
Part III --- The Comeback of the Scum
After Z-Boson flips, DarthPunk has been quiet for a while at the exception of a few posts. I found this one which could be the perfect post to set up a series of mislynches. Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote:
lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this.THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything. Before attacking me, he has misinterpreted and twisted my posts and accused me to push lynch baits. I want you to understand that the lynch bait is me, and that scum DP is pushing my mislynch right now. I know I look bad because of the setup speculation but I was honestly thinking that it would solve the game. And I hope you realize that it could have if debears had lived with green or red checks to share with us. Anyway, I've given strong townreads on Kickstart and Iamp here in this post Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote:
<snip>
@ Hopeless
At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart.
Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch.
Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt.
I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion.
and I still get post like this from DP Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote:You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 22:11 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 22:08 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town Here is why he could be scum I think he is newbie town. Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read. Either way he is not reading the thread properly or he wants to discredit me while my attention is over him. Our exchanges about Kickstart clearly showed that he is twisting my stance about Kickstart, which has been clear since the beginning.
Conclusion
Bussing Hapa- Z-Bo is his top scumread but chose to lynch who Z-Bo is voting because it's obviously WIFOM
- Last minute lynch of Hapa when he said that he would not lynch him
- Takes all the town credit and accuses BH and Z-Bo (town and town) of bussing
Z-Boson lynch- Double standards between Z-Bo and BH
- No sympathy with Z-Bo, which had been also pushed a lynch at the end of D1
- The core of the cases was the meta part, which Z-Bo had a reasonable defense for
- Shows no doubt about the fact that Z-Bo is going to flip scum
The Comeback- Fairly inactive even after the end of the Acme game
- Shows no doubt about the fact that I am scum
- Presents himself as a lynch bait before any case made against him
- Misinterpreting my posts and taking advantage of the fact that I was not scumhunting
##Unvote
##Vote DartPunk
Why must I be lynched today if we want to win? We can still lynch scum If S&B flips green.
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On November 22 2012 16:01 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 15:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:
This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you. actually you guys will be responding to each other for what might be the next four or so days so you better get used to it. Pray to god S&B is scum if not we are going to be getting real comfy with each other . @ iampIs this really your conclusion when you see DP and me going after each other throat like this ? So, you are saying that both of us are town and we are both stupid for giving a town read on the last remaining scum ?
I hope so because that would be pretty hilarious.
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When is going to be "after Thanksgiving" ?
I'm French and I live in South Korea, I've never participated in any Thanksgiving and I'm not ever sure what you guys are supposed to do during that time except than eating a turkey...
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On November 22 2012 16:20 Djodref wrote:
When is going to be "after Thanksgiving" ?
I'm French and I live in South Korea, I've never participated in any Thanksgiving and I'm not ever sure what you guys are supposed to do during that time except than eating a turkey...
tomorrow
you guys should make yourself useful and solve the game while im gone ok?
thanks
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On November 22 2012 16:14 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 16:01 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 15:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:
This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you. actually you guys will be responding to each other for what might be the next four or so days so you better get used to it. Pray to god S&B is scum if not we are going to be getting real comfy with each other . @ iampIs this really your conclusion when you see DP and me going after each other throat like this ? So, you are saying that both of us are town and we are both stupid for giving a town read on the last remaining scum ? I would like you to understand first that it is obvious that one of us has to be scum. Then, I would be glad if you could understand that DP has to be today lynch if we ever want to win this game. I'm still waiting for your comments on my case against DP. For reference you can find it in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2012 02:26 Djodref wrote:
DarthPunk
Part I --- Bussing Hapa
During D1, DarthPunk has shown interest mainly in the persons of Clarity and Z-Boson. His interactions with Hapa were limited. As a reminder, please find here his famous "last will" post before getting almost lynched. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote:
I am flipping town.
Lynch Z-Bo and clarity.
BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely.
Marv is 100% town
Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3
Perfection town.
Crossfire town
S&B town
Hopeless null
Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game
GO town!!! Hapa needs to be looked closely at. DP has mentioned previously that he wouldn't vote for Hapa or marv D1 here + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:
<snip>
Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose.
. Please also note that he gives a town read on Crossfire among other town reads. So, Hapa is not a good lynch for today while Z-Bo is. And yet, after "realizing" that Hapa is scum while BH, debears and iamp started to threw their FoS around. We have Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. WIFOM I don't understand how you can come with the idea that your top scumread is planting WIFOM bombs. I think that his last minute vote was pressed by Hapa in the scumQT. What I find mostly interesting is his reaction afterward. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:25 DarthPunk wrote:
<snip>
You are far from confiremd ZB and your last 'will' was a WIFOM bomb if I ever saw it.
I am calling BH, HAPA, ZB team right now. So basically, BH and ZB have bussed Hapa for sure but -> Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote:
Also I am confirmed town. SO suck it, all of you. Excellent double standards. He is confirmed town because his lynch was pushed by scum and he lynched Hapa but ZB and BH are not at all in the same position, especially ZB here, and have obviously bussed. For your information, he retracts himself afterwards on BH because he certainly doesn't want to push a lynch on a JK.
Part II --- The Lynch of Z-BoSon
I cannot emphasize enough how stupid Z-BosoN lynch was. I feel very sorry for not having been here in the thread the last week-end but IRL stuff prevails, especially saturday nights. Anyway, I have tried to explain to DP that he was using double standards regarding ZB and BH but I've been called an idiot for it. Here is the post for reference Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 15:29 Djodref wrote:@ DarthPunkLet's look at the two following players Blazinghands- uncontested JK claim
- lynched Hapa
- shows no sign of town play
Yet he is the last on your lynch list Z-BosoN- uncontested miller claim
- lynched Hapa
- his meta speaks strongly against him but his defense for this makes sense
You want to lynch him today The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ? But let's also take a look at the similarities between Z-Bo and DP at that time Z-BoSoN- Has been almost lynched with confirmed scum votes against him
- Has lynched Hapa last minute
DP- Has been almost lynched with confirmed scum votes against him
- Has lynched Hapa last minute
- Feels confirmed town for it
I don't understand how town DP could not sympathize with Z-BosoN at this point and has no doubts at all about his alignment. I really don't understand how he could not have at least doubts about it. Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 11:21 DarthPunk wrote:On November 17 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote:Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote:All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have: YourHarryExtremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe: I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place... Mega power WIFOM.
Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante.
What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage.
STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk.
He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going: But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP. ... and more .... I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town. My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore. Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day. JhuytHe is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything. The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum.
##Vote: Shady Sands
I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later. Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK: When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum.
The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.
I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with. GolbatBeastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is. goodkarma and DarthPunkI wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted. Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well. On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:My current lists of suspects stands as: 1) thrawn2112
2) YourHarry
3) Shady SandsDue to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history: GolbatHas said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM. Onward. StuttersHe begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info. So that leaves... JHyutWho begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back: + Show Spoiler +
You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with:
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun.
However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters.
Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut?
Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of:
1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut.
2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat.
3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner.
I find this Highly Suspicious.
That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with ##Vote JHuytPS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough. Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1! Here is Z-Boson this game On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts: On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote:
I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him.
I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though.
Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy.
Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind. Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here: On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote:On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote:
Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now. I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this. Anyway, I like this case by marv. + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote:@goodkarmaWell that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote:Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat:You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote:
@YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry
SolarSail (0): YourHarry
thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat
goodkarma (0): YourHarry
Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson
Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote:Regarding YourHarry:Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: - First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. - YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. - The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. - On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +
Final Vote Count:
Thrawn2112 (5): DarthPunk, Golbat, Solarsail, goodkarma, YourHarry, Z-BosoN, Obvious.660, Solarsail, YourHarry
Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, thrawn2112, Solarsail
YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695
goodkarma (0): Obvious.660
Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry
YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read.
##Unvote
##Vote: YourHarry
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated.
Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote:
Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat
Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar
GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson. ##Vote Z-boson That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says. On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote:
Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter. So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow.
thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back. Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless. marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL. On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:On iampI hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is: On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote:On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:
Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his. do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games. What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird. I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece".
That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post. Thrawn, however, is unusually inactive. I remember him as townie being much, much more active than this. He's actually managed to make one entrance post: [ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=19#361 ]. Shows some suspicions, ask some questions, and is gone like the wind. debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this: On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote:
I don't understand why it's scum play.
1. Believes miller claim
2. Later decides he's scummy
The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it? Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong. Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised.
@debearsI'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast: 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him
2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote
-note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it. Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB. You'll also note his town play (GSL III) is totes different Yes. His town play is very, very different in pretty much the exact way you mentioned in your case against him. There is no doubt in my mind that ZB is the last scum. Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 10:19 DarthPunk wrote:On November 18 2012 10:17 iamperfection wrote:On November 18 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:
Nah. I want ZB to flip. Then if the game is still going we can check out that wall of text of his. its not that long read it bro I did read it. I still think he is scum. If he is town it holds more value for me than it does currently. It looks exactly how he thinks it would. A mechanism to escape from his lynch. It only becomes useful when he dies. There is no one I want to lynch over ZB. And the only person I would consider is clarity. The thing that I really don't like is his insistence on Z-BosoN meta. That was DarthPunk main point against Z-Boson, please check the conclusions for all his cases and you can find something like "this is not how town Z-B plays". And I really don't like this because Z-Bo had given a reasonable and honest explanation for the change in his meta and has given us elements to back it up. These points show that DarthPunk was using double-standards and confirmation bias wrt Z-Boson.
Part III --- The Comeback of the Scum
After Z-Boson flips, DarthPunk has been quiet for a while at the exception of a few posts. I found this one which could be the perfect post to set up a series of mislynches. Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote:
lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this.THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything. Before attacking me, he has misinterpreted and twisted my posts and accused me to push lynch baits. I want you to understand that the lynch bait is me, and that scum DP is pushing my mislynch right now. I know I look bad because of the setup speculation but I was honestly thinking that it would solve the game. And I hope you realize that it could have if debears had lived with green or red checks to share with us. Anyway, I've given strong townreads on Kickstart and Iamp here in this post Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote:
<snip>
@ Hopeless
At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart.
Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch.
Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt.
I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion.
and I still get post like this from DP Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote:You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 22:11 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 22:08 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town Here is why he could be scum I think he is newbie town. Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read. Either way he is not reading the thread properly or he wants to discredit me while my attention is over him. Our exchanges about Kickstart clearly showed that he is twisting my stance about Kickstart, which has been clear since the beginning.
Conclusion
Bussing Hapa- Z-Bo is his top scumread but chose to lynch who Z-Bo is voting because it's obviously WIFOM
- Last minute lynch of Hapa when he said that he would not lynch him
- Takes all the town credit and accuses BH and Z-Bo (town and town) of bussing
Z-Boson lynch- Double standards between Z-Bo and BH
- No sympathy with Z-Bo, which had been also pushed a lynch at the end of D1
- The core of the cases was the meta part, which Z-Bo had a reasonable defense for
- Shows no doubt about the fact that Z-Bo is going to flip scum
The Comeback- Fairly inactive even after the end of the Acme game
- Shows no doubt about the fact that I am scum
- Presents himself as a lynch bait before any case made against him
- Misinterpreting my posts and taking advantage of the fact that I was not scumhunting
##Unvote
##Vote DartPunk
Why must I be lynched today if we want to win? We can still lynch scum If S&B flips green.
That's true, but you could kill me tonight because I'm the only one believe in the fact that you are scum. I don't think that iamp. Kickstart or Hopeless would realize that they have to lynch you if I'm not here.
|
On November 22 2012 16:26 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 16:14 DarthPunk wrote:On November 22 2012 16:01 Djodref wrote:On November 22 2012 15:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:
This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you. actually you guys will be responding to each other for what might be the next four or so days so you better get used to it. Pray to god S&B is scum if not we are going to be getting real comfy with each other . @ iampIs this really your conclusion when you see DP and me going after each other throat like this ? So, you are saying that both of us are town and we are both stupid for giving a town read on the last remaining scum ? I would like you to understand first that it is obvious that one of us has to be scum. Then, I would be glad if you could understand that DP has to be today lynch if we ever want to win this game. I'm still waiting for your comments on my case against DP. For reference you can find it in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2012 02:26 Djodref wrote:
DarthPunk
Part I --- Bussing Hapa
During D1, DarthPunk has shown interest mainly in the persons of Clarity and Z-Boson. His interactions with Hapa were limited. As a reminder, please find here his famous "last will" post before getting almost lynched. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote:
I am flipping town.
Lynch Z-Bo and clarity.
BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely.
Marv is 100% town
Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3
Perfection town.
Crossfire town
S&B town
Hopeless null
Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game
GO town!!! Hapa needs to be looked closely at. DP has mentioned previously that he wouldn't vote for Hapa or marv D1 here + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:
<snip>
Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose.
. Please also note that he gives a town read on Crossfire among other town reads. So, Hapa is not a good lynch for today while Z-Bo is. And yet, after "realizing" that Hapa is scum while BH, debears and iamp started to threw their FoS around. We have Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. WIFOM I don't understand how you can come with the idea that your top scumread is planting WIFOM bombs. I think that his last minute vote was pressed by Hapa in the scumQT. What I find mostly interesting is his reaction afterward. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:25 DarthPunk wrote:
<snip>
You are far from confiremd ZB and your last 'will' was a WIFOM bomb if I ever saw it.
I am calling BH, HAPA, ZB team right now. So basically, BH and ZB have bussed Hapa for sure but -> Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote:
Also I am confirmed town. SO suck it, all of you. Excellent double standards. He is confirmed town because his lynch was pushed by scum and he lynched Hapa but ZB and BH are not at all in the same position, especially ZB here, and have obviously bussed. For your information, he retracts himself afterwards on BH because he certainly doesn't want to push a lynch on a JK.
Part II --- The Lynch of Z-BoSon
I cannot emphasize enough how stupid Z-BosoN lynch was. I feel very sorry for not having been here in the thread the last week-end but IRL stuff prevails, especially saturday nights. Anyway, I have tried to explain to DP that he was using double standards regarding ZB and BH but I've been called an idiot for it. Here is the post for reference Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 15:29 Djodref wrote:@ DarthPunkLet's look at the two following players Blazinghands- uncontested JK claim
- lynched Hapa
- shows no sign of town play
Yet he is the last on your lynch list Z-BosoN- uncontested miller claim
- lynched Hapa
- his meta speaks strongly against him but his defense for this makes sense
You want to lynch him today The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ? But let's also take a look at the similarities between Z-Bo and DP at that time Z-BoSoN- Has been almost lynched with confirmed scum votes against him
- Has lynched Hapa last minute
DP- Has been almost lynched with confirmed scum votes against him
- Has lynched Hapa last minute
- Feels confirmed town for it
I don't understand how town DP could not sympathize with Z-BosoN at this point and has no doubts at all about his alignment. I really don't understand how he could not have at least doubts about it. Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 11:21 DarthPunk wrote:On November 17 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote:On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote:Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote:All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have: YourHarryExtremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe: I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place... Mega power WIFOM.
Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante.
What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage.
STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk.
He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going: But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP. ... and more .... I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town. My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore. Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day. JhuytHe is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything. The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum.
##Vote: Shady Sands
I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later. Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK: When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum.
The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.
I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with. GolbatBeastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is. goodkarma and DarthPunkI wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted. Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well. On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:My current lists of suspects stands as: 1) thrawn2112
2) YourHarry
3) Shady SandsDue to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history: GolbatHas said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM. Onward. StuttersHe begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info. So that leaves... JHyutWho begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back: + Show Spoiler +
You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with:
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun.
However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters.
Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut?
Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of:
1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut.
2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat.
3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner.
I find this Highly Suspicious.
That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with ##Vote JHuytPS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough. Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1! Here is Z-Boson this game On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts: On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote:
I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him.
I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though.
Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy.
Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind. Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here: On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote:On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote:
Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now. I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this. Anyway, I like this case by marv. + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote:@goodkarmaWell that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote:Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat:You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote:
@YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry
SolarSail (0): YourHarry
thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat
goodkarma (0): YourHarry
Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson
Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote:Regarding YourHarry:Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: - First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. - YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. - The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. - On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +
Final Vote Count:
Thrawn2112 (5): DarthPunk, Golbat, Solarsail, goodkarma, YourHarry, Z-BosoN, Obvious.660, Solarsail, YourHarry
Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, thrawn2112, Solarsail
YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695
goodkarma (0): Obvious.660
Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry
YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read.
##Unvote
##Vote: YourHarry
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated.
Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote:
Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat
Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar
GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson. ##Vote Z-boson That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says. On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote:
Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter. So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow.
thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back. Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless. marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL. On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:On iampI hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is: On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote:On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:
Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his. do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games. What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird. I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece".
That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post. Thrawn, however, is unusually inactive. I remember him as townie being much, much more active than this. He's actually managed to make one entrance post: [ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=19#361 ]. Shows some suspicions, ask some questions, and is gone like the wind. debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this: On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote:
I don't understand why it's scum play.
1. Believes miller claim
2. Later decides he's scummy
The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it? Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong. Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised.
@debearsI'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast: 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him
2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote
-note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it. Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB. You'll also note his town play (GSL III) is totes different Yes. His town play is very, very different in pretty much the exact way you mentioned in your case against him. There is no doubt in my mind that ZB is the last scum. Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 10:19 DarthPunk wrote:On November 18 2012 10:17 iamperfection wrote:On November 18 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:
Nah. I want ZB to flip. Then if the game is still going we can check out that wall of text of his. its not that long read it bro I did read it. I still think he is scum. If he is town it holds more value for me than it does currently. It looks exactly how he thinks it would. A mechanism to escape from his lynch. It only becomes useful when he dies. There is no one I want to lynch over ZB. And the only person I would consider is clarity. The thing that I really don't like is his insistence on Z-BosoN meta. That was DarthPunk main point against Z-Boson, please check the conclusions for all his cases and you can find something like "this is not how town Z-B plays". And I really don't like this because Z-Bo had given a reasonable and honest explanation for the change in his meta and has given us elements to back it up. These points show that DarthPunk was using double-standards and confirmation bias wrt Z-Boson.
Part III --- The Comeback of the Scum
After Z-Boson flips, DarthPunk has been quiet for a while at the exception of a few posts. I found this one which could be the perfect post to set up a series of mislynches. Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote:
lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this.THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything. Before attacking me, he has misinterpreted and twisted my posts and accused me to push lynch baits. I want you to understand that the lynch bait is me, and that scum DP is pushing my mislynch right now. I know I look bad because of the setup speculation but I was honestly thinking that it would solve the game. And I hope you realize that it could have if debears had lived with green or red checks to share with us. Anyway, I've given strong townreads on Kickstart and Iamp here in this post Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote:
<snip>
@ Hopeless
At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart.
Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch.
Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt.
I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion.
and I still get post like this from DP Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote:You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 22:11 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 22:08 Djodref wrote:On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote:On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart?
You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town Here is why he could be scum I think he is newbie town. Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read. Either way he is not reading the thread properly or he wants to discredit me while my attention is over him. Our exchanges about Kickstart clearly showed that he is twisting my stance about Kickstart, which has been clear since the beginning.
Conclusion
Bussing Hapa- Z-Bo is his top scumread but chose to lynch who Z-Bo is voting because it's obviously WIFOM
- Last minute lynch of Hapa when he said that he would not lynch him
- Takes all the town credit and accuses BH and Z-Bo (town and town) of bussing
Z-Boson lynch- Double standards between Z-Bo and BH
- No sympathy with Z-Bo, which had been also pushed a lynch at the end of D1
- The core of the cases was the meta part, which Z-Bo had a reasonable defense for
- Shows no doubt about the fact that Z-Bo is going to flip scum
The Comeback- Fairly inactive even after the end of the Acme game
- Shows no doubt about the fact that I am scum
- Presents himself as a lynch bait before any case made against him
- Misinterpreting my posts and taking advantage of the fact that I was not scumhunting
##Unvote
##Vote DartPunk
Why must I be lynched today if we want to win? We can still lynch scum If S&B flips green. That's true, but you could kill me tonight because I'm the only one believe in the fact that you are scum. I don't think that iamp. Kickstart or Hopeless would realize that they have to lynch you if I'm not here.
lol don't be ridiculous
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