EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXX - Page 13
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Gg guys I'm late to the party | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 09 2012 04:04 Alsn wrote: Anyone have any tips for just how I'm supposed to filter all my reads? I tend to always wind up at "null"(not really the right word, undecided is more like it) or slight reads in either direction because I seem to sum up all of a players actions and then conclude "well, both scummy and townie at times! I obviously can't be too confident about either direction!". alsn, you're strength is late game analysis by far. What I would recommend is being more aggressive d1 (of course you were a cop so its understandable this game). Get the answers you want. That's how I best get my reads. Also, you need to remove posts that indicative scum or town equally (or pretty close to equal). Also, when you combine posts, look at if one post strengthens the scumminess of the other) For example, with syler. In his first post he praised town for activity, then later on accuses me and djo of "posting too much". Alone, you could say a townie could say that. But together, they don't make any sense. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
I feel there were a few mistakes this game in terms of how people appraoch reads 1) Fluff - A few guys kept screaming "fluff!" at my filter, yet failed to realize the content that was in there. Even if there a bit of fluff in a filter, a townie can just scroll through it to look at the long posts. Remember, look for content first. If there is no content, then look at the amount of fluff 2) Bullying - I feel that guys like (Rad and Clarity I believe) cited bullying as a scum tell. First, don't take someone using strong wording (unless its like "you absolutely suck and should quit playing mafia") as scummy. Look at their reasoning for using that wording. Also, if it's true, then how is it bullying? Don't get too emotional when playing mafia 3) Outing Blues - The problem with this is that, most of the time, mafia will hide among the semi-lurkers, where blues hide. Also, don't rely too heavily on blues. We didn't win this game because of blues. We won it because everyone that was townie looked townie (or townier than the scum). Outing mafia, out of the cost of outing a blue or two, isn't necessarily a bad thing. There are usually a similar amount of mafia and blues. There are usually around 3 townies to 1 mafia. If you can out one mafia per blue, you usually win the game. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
I figured I'd help Hapa and Marv out with this. Not amazing stuff on my part but a few thoughts. Scum 1) Sylver - The most consistent problem for you was that your posts were not from a townie mindset most of the time. Here's the case I was making before I died. Take a look at the reasoning and you should be able to see what I mean + Show Spoiler + Alright, so, for this case on Sylver, which I believe is a very strong one, I want to point out that I haven't gone over Clarity's actions d1 and n1 so far. That is because I believe that Sylver has scumtells(not scumslips). 1) His voting before the lynch and his reasoning During the claim confusion, Sylver stated multiple times that he thought I was scum. when asked, he said that I was his top scum read, yet he didn't vote me. Why? On November 05 2012 10:03 sylverfyre wrote: Yes, I jumped on you pretty early after your call for claim. And I still think you're bad. But everyone else is tunneling cheese so hard and there's negative time left now. On November 05 2012 10:40 sylverfyre wrote: Huh? I didn't think ANYONE would follow me. And cheese voting debears basically cemented nobody following a debears lynch, regardless of what cheese true alignment was. I was starting to consider if it was wrong is all. You seriously need to stop trying to pull up one sentence, take it out of context, and call it a scumtell. You did it last game to me too. Maybe something about my writing style? I don't know. Alright, so because he thought CC was scum, he didn't vote me, his top scumread. What I would like to point out is that he thought I would be scum no matter what CC flipped, yet he had his doubts about CC About me: On November 05 2012 09:10 sylverfyre wrote: Scumteam Cheese Debears? Trying to call out for all VT to roleclaim... ANY kind of mass roleclaim on day 1... no. Just no. No no no no. No way is that something a townie would ask for. On November 05 2012 09:25 sylverfyre wrote: Well, as I said, I'm willing to vote cheese too. I think it's cheesecake debears, and that debears might be trying to get out of this by bussing CC. ##Unvote ##Vote Cheese On CC doubts: On November 05 2012 10:01 sylverfyre wrote: My chance following cheesecake voting debears? If cheese flips town, it's clarity or debears. Probably both. Notice how, no matter what the flip for CC, I was scum. Why wouldn't he vote for the person he sure is scum? Not reading the thread at a crucial moment Here was another excuse for not voting me On November 05 2012 10:00 sylverfyre wrote: Where was my chance? O.o This post was referring when the bandwagon flipped on me pretty quickly, pulling me and CC close. What does this show? Sylver was not reading the thread at a moment of great confusion right before the lynch Who wants to sort out whether CC is town or not by reading the thread carefully? Town Who wants to act like they are paying attention but really aren't? Scum I want to point out the end voting for everyone to see how close it was between me and CC Mr. Cheesecake (6) - Alsn, Clarity_nl (0) - debears (3) - Djodref (0) - da0ud (0) - sylverfyre (0) - Had Sylver actually voted for his top scumread, the voting would have been 5-4 CC-me. Also, consider Clarity and Alsn had considered me scummy the whole d1. A lynch of me was a very real possibility. Why wouldn't Sylver jump on it since I'm his top scumread? Motivations 1) Town - There isn't 2) Scum - Lynch a townie (CC) in an easy, confusion lynch while being able to keep your top scumread alive, so that you can tunnel him the next day and not find a new target Spreading Suspicion during the Lynch A townie's top priority right before lynch is to determine whether or not the leading candidates are scum, unless they are absolutely scum, especially on d1. What did Sylver focus on during the lynch? Spreading suspicion on me and Clarity. He didn't even comment on CC's claim Look at his posts in order from here. Also, look at the time difference between his posts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16802154 Almost all of his posts mentioned me or my actions in them. That's very weird. There's a 25 minute gap in there from his vote on CC to his next post. Isn't that weird right before lynch? What was he doing? Notice how all his posts are painting suspicion on me and Clarity at this time. He did not know what CC was, yet he seemed to not care to find out. A huge contradiction I want to point out 2 back to back posts that completely contradicted each other. On November 05 2012 10:01 sylverfyre wrote: I'm not going to sheep a scum. This was a response to CC's vote here: On November 05 2012 10:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Debears right there So he is certain CC is scum right? What did Sylver say in the exact same minute On November 05 2012 10:01 sylverfyre wrote: My chance following cheesecake voting debears? If cheese flips town, it's clarity or debears. Probably both. Wowowowowowowow. Scum alert here boys. He calls CC certain scum the second after this. Why would he all of a sudden put up a "if cc is town" scenario right before he calls CC certain scum? Because he knows CC is town and is acting like he thinks CC is scum. 2) Clarity - You got screwed over by the extra information the blues had. However, I feel you would have been caught eventually anyways. Your day 1 wasn't horrible, but it didn't establish townieness Instead of making posts with a bunch of reads, pick out two targets and dig up as much as you can on them. Move on if you don't find anything/you're being called out for being unreasonable. Town 1) Djo - MVP for sure. A few things though. 1. Try to be a little more level headed early day 1 (I suppose I'm guilty of the same thing). You're attack on Cheese made me suspicious of you a little bit (luckily your reads spot on with mine = town). 2. Try not to claim so early unless you need it to get the scum lynch 3. As jk, I don't think you should have pressured clarity so hard during the night if you truly believed he was scum, considering that you coulnd't protect yourself. Don't make yourself a target as that important of a role. Luckily, they killed me so you could claim. That said, nice reads (I believe both scum were in your d1 reads) 2) Alsn - Be more aggressive d1. Other than that, good game. You were logical, showed your analysis skills. Also, if I were you, with your analytical skills, I wouldn't give too much respect to the scum play of others (I recall day one you kept bringing up my scum meta). Have faith that you can read active players as the game goes on. It's your strength 3) Rad - Although I thought you were scummy early on, you made some posts (a meta post on me) that showed a townie mindset. At the very least, you made yourself less scummy than the scum, so you did your job 4) Obzy - Very impressive first game! You were the first town read I had, and that didn't change the whole game. Keep it up! 5) CC - You got screwed over, but it happens. Be more aggressive 6) Dau0d - You were showing a townie mindset when you were active. If you could have found more time to invest, I feel you would have been much more townie | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 09 2012 04:20 Rad wrote: Debears, I'm curious why you kept pushing the fluff percentage thing on me. I never told you I thought you had a lot of fluff, that was someone else (alsn I think?). My thing on that was questioning why you'd want anyone to waste time on it since at that point, no conclusion could be made one way or the other since it's just subjective. My reasoning was to get you to realize the amount of content in my filter | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 09 2012 04:21 Clarity_nl wrote: You have to realize that the fluff argument/bullying, from my perspective, was to cause interference. Same goes for blue hunting. =] I can see why you would want to use it, but honestly you made yourself way more suspicious to me since that was the only reasoning you could find on me. Never make yourself that suspicious to the most active player at that time. Also, although your goal is interference, interference does little when you out yourself in the process. You still have to use good reasoning and a townie mindset as scum when making cases. The difference is pushing your agenda while doing that (which is incredibly hard later in the game) | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 09 2012 04:29 Hapahauli wrote: 1) Is this player scumhunting? 2) Is this player acting townie? (Being open/honest/engaged/showing-effort) 3) Does this player have extra info? At least for me, when I start asking the general questions, it gives me a better way to sort out my reads on a player. All those "slightly scummy" actions are usually townie when you look at them in a broader context. Uhhhh... let me know if that made sense. Rambleramblerambleramble. Hapa, add one more to the list 4) Does this player care about who is getting lynched? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Clarity_nl 11-03-2012 05:59 AM ET (US) I think this post will basically cover us for the day, also gives us an opportunity to jump on people's mistakes, but hopefully townies do that for us. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...¤tpage=16#303 Yep. Exactly everyone's point about a list of null reads lol..... | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
11-06-2012 05:03 AM ET (US) It's like I'm playing jenga and all the pieces will make the tower fall. So funny^^ | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 09 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote: call people bad more and tell them to sheep you marv ur bad. Let me coach :D Does that work? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 09 2012 12:20 Hapahauli wrote: I think YourHarry tried this in one of the newbie games for the first few hours of his play, just so he was comfortable at the start of the game in the event he rolled scum. Beyond that, I don't think it's a very legitimate strategy - you lose a lot by not being able to communicate with your teammates, and in addition, you're prone to showing a very sudden mentality shift (before and after you check the role PM). Hmmmm. I'll keep this in mind the next time I play. Should I go for epic 30 pg filter and game without looking at role pm? Actually I just thought through this. If you're scum and you nail your two teammates, then when nks don't show up you will realize you are the last scum....making your previous edge worthless | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On November 10 2012 06:32 Clarity_nl wrote: Oh yeah, global servers and all, I just might =] Eh. I just don't see HotS being that good. I feel like they went completely in the wrong direction with it :/ I sure hope Bliz does make it amazing so I can get back to being super excited about sc2 again | ||
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